This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 18 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Jacques Marie François Bigot. The result of the discussion was Moved to Jacques Marie Frangile Bigot. |
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Due to a misreading of handwriting, a typographer for the Annales de la Société Entomologique de France, typed bigot's full name in the membership list as Jacques Marie Frangile Bigot. His birth and death certificates clearly have his name as Jacques Marie François Bigot. This still needs correcting on this page.
For many years, the portrait of Bigot published in various sources was mistakenly of his nephew, Just Bigot (both have the name in lists as "J.Bigot", hence the confusion. The correct portrait still needs to be uploaded to this page. BFly52 ( talk) 04:22, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Jacques Marie Frangile Bigot. Based on the discussion, there is an agreement to have the hyphens removed. However, there is no consensus to rename as nominated. This can be explored again when there is a more concrete evidence that the subject is being referred to as the nominated title more commonly in the future. In the meantime, a redirect is created to aid in searchability/discovery of the article. – robertsky ( talk) 13:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Jacques-Marie-Frangile Bigot → Jacques Marie François Bigot – Multiple contemporary sources give this entomologist's full name as "François" rather than "Frangile":
There is also an article from 2008 here that gives his third given name as "François" rather than "Frangile", but I don't know where the full name is sourced from so this may not be any good for supporting this article move.
As another editor has suggested above in this talk page, "Frangile" is possibly a clerical error originating from a mention of his full name in the Annales de la Société Entomologique de France starting in 1885 (e.g. here), maybe from trying to interpret his handwriting. According to existing available sources about him (particularly this one), he was also notorious in his day for being careless with his spellings of scientific names for flies, which he was criticized for. Possibly some misspellings also came about from trying to read his handwriting. (This may have no relevance to renaming the article, but it makes it seem plausible that "Frangile" was a clerical error.)
There was an alternative suggestion from offwiki (the unofficial Wikimedia Discord server specifically) that we use "J. M. F. Bigot" or "J.-M.-F. Bigot" as the article title instead, because he always wrote his given names as initials in his works. This however doesn't seem consistent with our treatment of French entomologists on Wikipedia: see Category:French entomologists and WP:TITLECON. Many recent sources also tend to give his name in full rather than with initials anyway (even if with "Frangile" instead of "François"), so maybe it can be argued to be the most common format: see WP:MIDDLENAME. (Though I see that some of the authority control databases use his initials with full name in parentheses, so I could be wrong here.)
Lastly, I don't actually know if his name should be given with hyphens or not, but if other French entomologists with multiple given names (that are not compound given names) tend to have spaces rather than hyphens on Wikipedia, then this one should have spaces too. Otherwise, the article title could be called "Jacques-Marie-François Bigot" instead. Monster Iestyn ( talk) 03:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 16:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 18 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Jacques Marie François Bigot. The result of the discussion was Moved to Jacques Marie Frangile Bigot. |
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Due to a misreading of handwriting, a typographer for the Annales de la Société Entomologique de France, typed bigot's full name in the membership list as Jacques Marie Frangile Bigot. His birth and death certificates clearly have his name as Jacques Marie François Bigot. This still needs correcting on this page.
For many years, the portrait of Bigot published in various sources was mistakenly of his nephew, Just Bigot (both have the name in lists as "J.Bigot", hence the confusion. The correct portrait still needs to be uploaded to this page. BFly52 ( talk) 04:22, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved to Jacques Marie Frangile Bigot. Based on the discussion, there is an agreement to have the hyphens removed. However, there is no consensus to rename as nominated. This can be explored again when there is a more concrete evidence that the subject is being referred to as the nominated title more commonly in the future. In the meantime, a redirect is created to aid in searchability/discovery of the article. – robertsky ( talk) 13:59, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
Jacques-Marie-Frangile Bigot → Jacques Marie François Bigot – Multiple contemporary sources give this entomologist's full name as "François" rather than "Frangile":
There is also an article from 2008 here that gives his third given name as "François" rather than "Frangile", but I don't know where the full name is sourced from so this may not be any good for supporting this article move.
As another editor has suggested above in this talk page, "Frangile" is possibly a clerical error originating from a mention of his full name in the Annales de la Société Entomologique de France starting in 1885 (e.g. here), maybe from trying to interpret his handwriting. According to existing available sources about him (particularly this one), he was also notorious in his day for being careless with his spellings of scientific names for flies, which he was criticized for. Possibly some misspellings also came about from trying to read his handwriting. (This may have no relevance to renaming the article, but it makes it seem plausible that "Frangile" was a clerical error.)
There was an alternative suggestion from offwiki (the unofficial Wikimedia Discord server specifically) that we use "J. M. F. Bigot" or "J.-M.-F. Bigot" as the article title instead, because he always wrote his given names as initials in his works. This however doesn't seem consistent with our treatment of French entomologists on Wikipedia: see Category:French entomologists and WP:TITLECON. Many recent sources also tend to give his name in full rather than with initials anyway (even if with "Frangile" instead of "François"), so maybe it can be argued to be the most common format: see WP:MIDDLENAME. (Though I see that some of the authority control databases use his initials with full name in parentheses, so I could be wrong here.)
Lastly, I don't actually know if his name should be given with hyphens or not, but if other French entomologists with multiple given names (that are not compound given names) tend to have spaces rather than hyphens on Wikipedia, then this one should have spaces too. Otherwise, the article title could be called "Jacques-Marie-François Bigot" instead. Monster Iestyn ( talk) 03:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 16:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC)