This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Does anybody know if an all white jack russell is worth more than a multi colored one?
Just removed this posted by anon:
Who says these things? I haven't heard them said by people I know who own JRTs and it's not in any of the breed books that I have. Is this something that some breeder or other is promoting? Elf | Talk 30 June 2005 23:18 (UTC)
A dog show I saw on TV tonight says that this breed has been renamed the "Parson Russell terrier". Is this official? RickK
Jack Russell Terriers are not recognised by the Federation Cynologique Internationale (FCI), or by any major registry. -- Not true. The Parson Russell terrier is recognized by the AKC. RickK
The breed was renamed by the AKC because the JRTCA won a long drawn out leagal battle for excluisive rights to the name "Jack Russell Terrier. It is feared, with good reason, by the JRTCA that now that the breed in the hand of the AKC it will undergo numerouse changes and the JRTCA has worked tirelessly to preserve this breed and its workin ability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.47.143.239 ( talk) 22:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Any discussion of the AKC as being the "real" registry for Jack Russells or other working breeds should begin with some context.
The AKC has a horrid record of destroying working breeds. They define standards that have strict requirements on appearance and refuse to allow any reference to behavior or performance in those standards.
Up until 1990, or so, they simply refused to recognize many working breeds. But beginning around 1990, they began "taking over" working breeds in a way that is almost guaranteed to be injurious to the dogs.
The Jack Russell is not the only breed that they recognized against the expressed intent of the breed owners.
The Border Collie and the Australian Shepherd have gone through the same debacle.
For background, see: [1]
I'm not up to trying to edit the entry to reflect these issues, but whoever does so should be aware of them.
-- jdege 18:24, 2004 Nov 30 (UTC)
In all fairness, sometimes independent breed clubs are their own worst enemies.
I tried very hard to get info from the JRTCA directly--bubkas.
Some independent breed clubs put out literature and press releases that are dreadful--poor grammar, spelling, layout. Frightful.
It's not only the AKC that closes its studbooks; I've got a beautiful rescued border collie puppy I frankly don't know what to do with.
The large registries, whatever their faults, do at least provide a useful, visible, consistent lobby in defence of dogs and their owners.
Quill 21:55, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Just heard from a reliable source that JRTs have been placed on the Foundation Stock Register of the AKC. Quill 05:30, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Sorry, should have specified: they've accepted the FCI (therefore the Australian) standard. Quill 20:59, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I keep returning to the opening paragraph of this article because I find it ambiguous. I don't think we can open this, the main article on JRTs, by describing them as 'similar in form to Parson Russell Terriers'; we didn't have a Parson Russell article, I've written a bare bones one but it refers the reader back here. I think that may be a carry-over from an older version. Further, 'In England the name has been used to refer to the Parson Russell Terrier and to the short-legged type, the Russell Terrier.' which name--Parson or Jack? Quill 21:16, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
OK, this is all interesting (really), but the main questions are (a) how do we divide up the various articles--I assume by the currently used breed names, (2) in which of those articles (or in an article by a different name--what?--) do we do this whole discussion on the ancestry & divergence, and (iii) who IS "somebody" who will answer all of these questions? Ha! Elf | Talk 23:08, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Well, one part of the above is already settled--we can't simply pretend that purebreds don't exist--not unless we want to dump a couple of hundred breed articles for no good reason. Didn't we already go over this with Schnauzer and Belgian Shepherd? Or did we simply throw up our hands there, too? Ha! Parson Russell Terriers and Jack Russell Terriers are recognized, and those two breed articles should exist, end of story. The question of how to include the variants still remains, as does the question of where to place the history and origin of the breed. I'm assuming that you're using 'heterogeneous' in the sense of 'varying', rather than 'dissimilar', Jdege? There's the rub, surely the JRTCA won't accept simply ANY little terrier mutt as a JRT? Sigh. It's still a question of conformation, just degree of conformation--and conformation to what? Seems to me that Jack Russell Terrier should be the repository of history, origin and development, with nods to the variants. PRT gets its own article, since it was recognized first, because otherwise you have PRT with a redirect to JRT, which is bound to get someone up in arms at some point. We COULD have an article at Jack Russell Terriers, I suppose, that explains it all, or just explains it some, with references to the separate breed articles, which would then not have the whole Jack Russell spiel. Did I just contradict myself? Quill 01:15, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Do we want to list the stand-ins and stunt doubles of the various "stars"?
If so, how complete do we want to be?
I'm biased on this issue, because my Bear has a couple of cousins who served in those roles for Enzo in "My Dog Skip". (Bear's dam came from Hines Hill Kennel).
Area dogs picked to appear in film
-- jdege 19:52, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)
And while we're on the subject of screen and stage, how about a reference to Max, who played Milo in Jim Carrey's "The Mask". Which is without a doubt the best film portrayal yet of a JRT. -- jdege 20:07, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)
I just noticed that the page uses "double coat" to describe the rough coats.
I'm no expert at this, but it was my impression that all of the JRT coat types, even the smooth coat, were "double coats".
Which would make this a misleading description at best.
-- jdege 13:14, 2005 Feb 26 (UTC)
If we're going to link to external pics of JRTs, wouldn't this be the best site?
-- jdege July 7, 2005 01:35 (UTC)
Agreed. That would be a better source for the pics of a modern JRT. I put the link there for the history portion more than the pics.
--
Counsel
19:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Any of my
photos may be used. Please contact me for the appropriate size.
--
Tilers 18OCT2009 1:53 PM(CDT) —Preceding
undated comment added
18:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC).
Either it's a picture of a JRT, in which case it should be captioned as a picture of a JRT, or it's a picture of a PRT, and it shouldn't be on the JRT page at all. -- jdege 19:30, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
We have a shortage of good pics of JRTs in their many variants. (I'm going to a fun-day in a couple of weeks - I'l try to remember to bring my camera.)
So I don't object to the addition of a couple of pictures of Aussie JRTs, even if they're more artistic than informational.
But I'm not sure that they're appropriately placed on the page, and I am certain that the one of them is far too large.
Anyone else have thoughts?
-- jdege 14:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
The Truth About: The Jack Russell Terrier
-- jdege 16:41, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I was at a JRTCA Terrier Trial, today, and collected some pics of actual Jack Russells - as opposed to Parsons - in all of their variety.
I've uploaded them, and was wondering which of them people think might be appropriate for the Jack Russell page.
-- jdege 19:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Here is a new user template for your user page.
This user loves Jack Russells. |
it is produced with:
{{ User:UBX/Loves Jack Russells}}
The image topping this article is used both on this page and the Parson Russell Terrier page. I can't believe the same dog qualifies as both breeds, so someone might want to fix this little problem. Badbilltucker 23:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Did you know the Jack Russel's name was changed to Parson Russel!? Bulldawg399 23:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
This article states in different places that certain types of JRT's are decended from Mr. Russell's dogs. All of these statements are without citation with the exception of the statement that it is unlikely that any modern dogs are decended of Trump. Unless there is some sort of reliable backing for these claims, they should be removed.-- Counsel 19:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Where can I put this image? Dfrg.m s c 1 . 2 . Editor Review 21:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Since when did the Jack Russell Terrier become an Australian? this is like calling the American Pitbull an English Pitbull. The Australian breed description is not very forthcoming as to how they 'developed' the breed, development means that other breeds must have been used, so with all their history and pedigrees why isn't there more information about how this breed was developed? I am sure we on the outside would all like to know more. Evelyn. EvelynH1 13:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
This page had become a complete mess, and I have done a major rewrite and consolidation with an eye towards putting in some badly needed structure while cutting out repetition, goofiness, confusion, etc. Most of the pictures on this page do NOT show the JRT (from any registry) in good light -- a problem that remains. - P
_ _ _ _ _
The UKC and AKC Russell Terrier folks need to write their own entry in Wikipedia under "Russell Terrier" as the Parson Russell Terrier folks have done for their breed. The point is that the Russell Terrier folks are promoting a new breed with a different name, a different standard, and even a different history than the Jack Russell. I think it is a useful thing, for now, to keep the JRT page as a "gateway" page to the "controversy" (which is really just a confustion at this point), but the new breeds need to create new pages and not try to hammer their new breed description and history into a dog description that is not their own. It's time to "go and grow" their own entry for their distinct breed(s). - P
Although i don't agree with the name russell terrier i think your way off the mark and this is public property, you do not own the rights to the name JRT. EvelynH1 20:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, seriously... I've never read such a poorly-written Wikipedia article. Someone really needs to remake this page from the ground up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.219.168.94 ( talk) 01:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
REWRITE
2. http://www.copyright.gov/records/
If there were lawsuit’s that ruled on this subject matter they would have been made publicly accessible and published by now, simply not so. People need to start researching for themselves and not simply worship whatever is told to them, no matter how long somebody has been in the breed.
Opinions should not be included within the encyclopedia articles, hard facts with proof only, not heresy or wives tales passed on! Written books, unless written by Rev. Russell himself are merely just another opinion.
"-- jdege 18:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no place within these legal documents stating that the name or breed is owned solely by the JRTCGB or JRTCA and that the words or name Jack Russell Terrier may not be used by any individual either private or other?. Oh, and we did get the page done, YAY!!! Happy New Year. -- HVJRT 07:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
David Brian Plummer, the author of "The Complete Jack Russell", "The Working Terrier", etc., and the orginator of the Plummer Terrier, wrote about the JRT, in "Tales of a Rat-Hunting Man":
Most terriers will kill rats moderatly well. Even breeds like scotties, West Highland whites, cairns and Manchester terriers, whose ancestors have not seen hunting for a hundred years or so, will usually galvanize at the sight of a fleeing rat. The serious rat hunter (is there really such a beast?) would do well to consider going for any of the three breeds of terrier that are still worked regularly, namely the Lakeland, the border, and the multitude of canine sins lumped together and called collectively the Jack Russell Terrier. Today there is a tendency to call any white-bodited mongrel with a short tail a Jack Russell terrier, though, with the formation of the newly established Jack Russell Club of Great Britain, perhaps a more genuine article will be established in the not to far distant future. I make no bones about it, however. My best ratting terriers have been some of the assorted hotchpotch we call Jack Russells.
-- jdege 06:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
ROFL & what the heck did Brian Plimmer know about terriers? please go play games elsewhere, the man bred dogs in puppy farm conditions crossbred bull terriers and all sorts of things together to create his own breed, yet no genuine terrieman in the UK will even own a plummer terrier. What he wrote in his books was knoweldge passed onto him from good terriermen who never did get the recogntion for it. By the way most of the pictures above of so called JRTs look like white lakeland fell terriers, pure indeed????? EvelynH1 20:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
In less than a week all kinds of interesting things were added to this page, most of them by folks that -- from what I can tell -- have dogs that are registered as "Russell Terriers". The good news (yes, there is good news!) is that a Russell Terrier page was started and, to help things along, I have also added a page (which needs fleshing out]] on the Australian Jack Russell Terrier. Since these breeds have different registries, different descriptions, and different histories, I think they need their own entry. Have at it people! I have left a note about the FCI Jack Russell Terrier in the JRT description and links all over to the Russell Terrier and Parson Russell Terrier. Perhaps, with separate entries and some good-natured cross-links to each other, all the folks with small white scruffy dogs can find their breed, registry, breed description and history. I trust the Parson and Jack Russell people will let the Russell and FCI Australian Jack Russell Terrier folks do their thing and vice-versa. I think the recent histories of the Parson, Russell and FCI Russell really * DO * need to be put down before they are lost in the ether of mythology. - PBurns3711
It is a stretch to claim the JRT is not a breed but a type... dogs such as feists represent a type, while the JRT is recognizable and breed true. Just because a breed is not 'pure bred' does not mean it is not a breed, many working terriers are still considered breeds by the general community even though not 'pure bred' and AKC/UKC recognized...
Recommend "breed" be reinstated in the introduction... furthermore there are currently inconsistencies in the article as the word "breed" appears several times. Macboots 18:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I've come here wanting to know the differences between the Jack Russell Terriers - and it's not easy working it out. The " Is a Jack Russell Defined by Function, Form, Registry, or Name?" and " Controversy" sections are not up to the standard of the rest of the article. I mostly get the impession that JRTCA is good and FCI is bad. How about a removing those headings and changing to "Breed development" (same heading from way back), leave the first half of the "Is a Jack Russell Defined..." and then have sub headings of "Function" and "Form" with each of the four? dogs explained (with the Kennel club info) under the relevant sub heading. It'll get the focus on the dogs and their articles - which, I imagine, is what most readers are after - Ctbolt 09:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
G'day...
The statements "The FCI is not a registry and does not issue pedigrees -- it is a collection of national canine societies. Neither The Kennel Club (UK) or the American Kennel Club are affiliated members of the FCI." are weasel words and do not express a nuetral point of view.
The section on "Is a Jack Russell Defined by function, form, registry, or name?" (especially in regards to the FCI) needs to be cleaned up in this respect.
-- Belfry 12:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 03:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
In the "Temperament" section, there is a reference that says "According to www.jack-russel-pictures.com ..." This site no longer exists (did it ever?), and the reference should probably be removed. I had a look, but didnt find out what was there before the the link, or what is an appropriate replacement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knutsi ( talk • contribs) 13:24, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Moose screenshot.JPG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 22:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Do we need any more pictures for this article? I can easily obtain some. YelloCello ( talk) 14:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't we say something about a Jack Russell being on the TV show Fraiser? Just a thought. YelloCello ( talk) 14:05, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
In other countries outside USA, the FCI type Jack Russell Terrier is known simply as "Jack Russell Terrier". (not "Russell Terrier" or anything else, see for example de:Jack Russell Terrier.) The "American type" Jack Russell Terrier is called "Parson Russell Terrier" (Ths includes the UK Kennel Club). This is very confusing. Even in this article, the first picture is of a long-legged one, while the two pictures in the "Temperament" section are of short-legged ones... (the Russell Terrier article alternating between R. T. and J. R. T. adds to the confusion. (but at least clarifies the differences) In order to avoid {{Globalize/USA}}, could a short paragraph and/or a redirect clarifying the situation be included? -- megA ( talk) 20:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
long-legged | short-legged | |
JRTCA (USA) and affiliates | Jack Russell Terrier | Russell Terrier or JRT (FCI) or Australian JRT |
Kennel Club (UK) | Parson Russell Terrier | (N/A) |
FCI (elsewhere) | Parson Russell Terrier | Jack Russell Terrier |
I've tagged the fact that they originated in fox hunting as dubious. This because it is uncited and I think that this is unrealistic. Jack Russells are smaller than foxes for starters so wouldn't be good for hunting. In the UK at least fox hounds are the only dogs used to hunt. From what I've heard (and seen in my original research!) Jack Russells are farm dogs whose main function would be to kill rodents. If you have a reliable source for the fox hunting claim please add it. Smartse ( talk) 15:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
-- 98.108.101.199 ( talk) 01:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)we have a jack russell terrier and was wondering do all these dogs get hot spots and scratch alot He doesnt have fleas we have been giving him vitamins for his shedding and dry skin but it doesnt seem to help any suggestions
The current organization of the several articles covering Jack Russell Terriers are badly in need of a reorganization. This article should be replaced with an overview article covering what is widely known both historically, popularly, and throughout the world as "Jack Russell Terrier", and then several breed-standard or location-specific uses of the name could be discussed, along with links to new articles discussing each. For example, most of the contents of this article should be moved to a new article called JRTCA Jack Russell Terrier. — Aldaron • T/ C 14:34, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I believe what that link refers to is not to use exactly the article name you want to, "JRTCA Jack Russell Terrier" is more specific than what is necessary. Not refering to the breed standard that has been set for the dog known as the Jack Russell Terrier, and protected by the parent club the JRTCA, would be akin to describing any white dog with black spots as a dalmation. In order to keep the information in this article valid and informative why would you not want to describe the breed with as much detail as is available? The "Jack Russell" is the dog that belongs to the JRTCA and fits the standard set forth by this club. The "Parson Russell Terrier" and the "Russell Terrier" are distinctly different dogs. Please research information on this breed before making reccomendations on its discription. A good place to start is www.therealjackrussell.com 207.47.246.99 ( talk) 08:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Registered trademarks have no validity outside the country of registration. Jack Russell Terriers exist worldwide and Wikipedia also exists worldwide, therefore to cite a registered trademark unique to the US is invalid. Indeed the term Jack Russell was in use in the UK as early as 1883 [1]. Remember that America does not constitute the whole world! Jack Russell Owner UK... 81.108.89.232 ( talk) 19:33, 14 February 2010 (UTC) I didn't say JRTCA, I said JRTC. There are many affiliated clubs around the world, with the oldest being the JRTCGB. They were established for the purpose of protecting the JRT, and keeping it the hunting terrier that was known by that name in 1883. -- jdege ( talk) 13:48, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
This article, though greatly improved, still lacks clear focus. Is it about the one specific breed standard, or is it about the collection of dogs as commonly known? — Aldaron • T/ C 04:50, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
The link for The Truth Behind Hollywood Russells is broken and needs to be fixed or removed. I think that the line about the dog in The Mask should be moved to Well-know Jack Russell Terriers and his name is Max see http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1247354/ this is also mentioned in the The Mask speacil feature "What Makes Fido Run" of the DVD. His trainer refure to Max as a Jack Russell Terrier and Iwhould think thay they wouldn't make a mastake on breeds. -- Ebnielsen ( talk) 23:22, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Please discuss here instead of edit warring. Should bve easy since none of you can edit the page for the next three days. Continued edit warring after protection expires will lead to blocks being handed out. Beeblebrox ( talk) 00:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Information that relates to the Jack Russell Terrier as a breed should be left in the article. This is a recognized BREED and as such has a breed standard. The name has been used, incorrectly, to describe a wide variety of dogs but ONLY pertains to the actual dogs registered as such. Not refering to the established breed standard to describe the dog or calling all small white dogs that resemble a JRT is as incorrect as refering to all spotted dogs as "Dalmations". The Parson is a spereate breed, as is the Russell Terrier and have breed standards as well. Please if you are going to edit this article eductae yourself on the breed and refer to the standards and information set forth in the poarent club, the Jack Russell Terrier Club of America or the Jack Russell Terrier Club of Canada. 207.47.246.99 ( talk) 06:58, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
It would be very helpful as well if someone would add some reputable information about distinguishing these terriers from Rat Terriers...particularly Rat Terriers who have ears that do not stand up. --CucFan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.218.3.246 ( talk) 22:18, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Below are sections with brief descriptions of of what I believe should be in those sections. By all means feel free to add/remove/rearrange as you see fit (and of course, comment!). All I ask is that if you remove anything from a section please strike through the text rather than completely deleting, as that way we can see what's gone. Miyagawa (talk) 19:54, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Lead paragraph A good guide is roughly one sentence to each couple of paragraphs in the article.
Description A generic description of a Jack Russell Type dog. Best to be cited from an independent JRT book. No standard related information in this section, however it should be mentioned that the JRT is a term used for a variety of small mostly white type terriers.
Subsection in here regarding the standards, with comparisons if there are any differences (for instance in the Welsh Springer Spaniel article that I'm currently working on it discusses the difference between the KC and AKC standards with regard to the nose. Also could discuss the difference between standardised dogs and those in common use by hunters or as pets (depending on availability of reliable references).
Temperament Pretty much what we already have, just with citations added, and with the text edited to fit them where necessary.
Health A paragraph or two on common health conditions including a reliably cited average lifespan. Subsections for any major health issues.
History The term of Jack Russell Terrier is the original term and therefore this needs to cover the split into Parson and Russell Terriers. A good example is how English Cocker Spaniel discusses the creation of the American Cocker Spaniel. Keep it perfectly neutral, present the facts and don't dismiss any breed as being inferior to another. The current text is probably fine but is only a start, and needs a bit of a copy edit for flow as well.
Add any information on historical hunting styles.
Paragraphs on any issues during the two world wars (a common issue in British breeds). I imagine being a predominantly hunting breed they might not have been as affected as other more show related terrier breeds. Formation of breed clubs, introduction and recognition by countries and kennel clubs.a
Well-known Jack Russell Terriers This section is fine to stay as it is.
To my knowledge the WWs have not affected this breed too much but information on the JRTC/KC split and the newer british hunting and tail docking laws may be of interest. 207.47.246.99 ( talk) 02:27, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Going to start making the edits to the article over this weekend, if there's any random characters suddenly appearing in the middle of a paragraph that'll be my Jack Russell trying to help out. :) Created this subsection of the article design so we can discuss any particular edits that I've made and fix any issues here rather than reverting and re-reverting back and forth in the article space itself. Miyagawa (talk) 10:10, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The Russell Terrier page seems to less controversially handle the origin of the JRT, while accurately dividing up Parsons, JRT's and Russells. It's sourced fairly sparcely, however.
Both links contained in the "Eddie" and "Wishbone" secitons lead to dead links. The claims that these dogs were in fact Parsons seems unsubstantiated. The pages for the animals themselves reference them as JRTs, and they pre-date the whole 'Parson/JRT' debate. Alternatively, if someone can prove that they are Parsons then they should not be on the JRT page, and their main pages should be amended.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirtyharry2 ( talk • contribs) 07:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
"and Mariah Carey
has a few, including her dog Jack".
I would say this is useless trivia, and removed it. If it's not, it should have its own information set forth, and not simply appended to the portion on the hero/pitball dog. It's also unsourced, although Google found me lots of pages referencing the dog's existence. But does the mere fact that a celebrity owns a certain breed warrant mention? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirtyharry2 ( talk • contribs) 17:03, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Does anybody know if an all white jack russell is worth more than a multi colored one?
Just removed this posted by anon:
Who says these things? I haven't heard them said by people I know who own JRTs and it's not in any of the breed books that I have. Is this something that some breeder or other is promoting? Elf | Talk 30 June 2005 23:18 (UTC)
A dog show I saw on TV tonight says that this breed has been renamed the "Parson Russell terrier". Is this official? RickK
Jack Russell Terriers are not recognised by the Federation Cynologique Internationale (FCI), or by any major registry. -- Not true. The Parson Russell terrier is recognized by the AKC. RickK
The breed was renamed by the AKC because the JRTCA won a long drawn out leagal battle for excluisive rights to the name "Jack Russell Terrier. It is feared, with good reason, by the JRTCA that now that the breed in the hand of the AKC it will undergo numerouse changes and the JRTCA has worked tirelessly to preserve this breed and its workin ability. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.47.143.239 ( talk) 22:49, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Any discussion of the AKC as being the "real" registry for Jack Russells or other working breeds should begin with some context.
The AKC has a horrid record of destroying working breeds. They define standards that have strict requirements on appearance and refuse to allow any reference to behavior or performance in those standards.
Up until 1990, or so, they simply refused to recognize many working breeds. But beginning around 1990, they began "taking over" working breeds in a way that is almost guaranteed to be injurious to the dogs.
The Jack Russell is not the only breed that they recognized against the expressed intent of the breed owners.
The Border Collie and the Australian Shepherd have gone through the same debacle.
For background, see: [1]
I'm not up to trying to edit the entry to reflect these issues, but whoever does so should be aware of them.
-- jdege 18:24, 2004 Nov 30 (UTC)
In all fairness, sometimes independent breed clubs are their own worst enemies.
I tried very hard to get info from the JRTCA directly--bubkas.
Some independent breed clubs put out literature and press releases that are dreadful--poor grammar, spelling, layout. Frightful.
It's not only the AKC that closes its studbooks; I've got a beautiful rescued border collie puppy I frankly don't know what to do with.
The large registries, whatever their faults, do at least provide a useful, visible, consistent lobby in defence of dogs and their owners.
Quill 21:55, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Just heard from a reliable source that JRTs have been placed on the Foundation Stock Register of the AKC. Quill 05:30, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Sorry, should have specified: they've accepted the FCI (therefore the Australian) standard. Quill 20:59, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I keep returning to the opening paragraph of this article because I find it ambiguous. I don't think we can open this, the main article on JRTs, by describing them as 'similar in form to Parson Russell Terriers'; we didn't have a Parson Russell article, I've written a bare bones one but it refers the reader back here. I think that may be a carry-over from an older version. Further, 'In England the name has been used to refer to the Parson Russell Terrier and to the short-legged type, the Russell Terrier.' which name--Parson or Jack? Quill 21:16, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
OK, this is all interesting (really), but the main questions are (a) how do we divide up the various articles--I assume by the currently used breed names, (2) in which of those articles (or in an article by a different name--what?--) do we do this whole discussion on the ancestry & divergence, and (iii) who IS "somebody" who will answer all of these questions? Ha! Elf | Talk 23:08, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Well, one part of the above is already settled--we can't simply pretend that purebreds don't exist--not unless we want to dump a couple of hundred breed articles for no good reason. Didn't we already go over this with Schnauzer and Belgian Shepherd? Or did we simply throw up our hands there, too? Ha! Parson Russell Terriers and Jack Russell Terriers are recognized, and those two breed articles should exist, end of story. The question of how to include the variants still remains, as does the question of where to place the history and origin of the breed. I'm assuming that you're using 'heterogeneous' in the sense of 'varying', rather than 'dissimilar', Jdege? There's the rub, surely the JRTCA won't accept simply ANY little terrier mutt as a JRT? Sigh. It's still a question of conformation, just degree of conformation--and conformation to what? Seems to me that Jack Russell Terrier should be the repository of history, origin and development, with nods to the variants. PRT gets its own article, since it was recognized first, because otherwise you have PRT with a redirect to JRT, which is bound to get someone up in arms at some point. We COULD have an article at Jack Russell Terriers, I suppose, that explains it all, or just explains it some, with references to the separate breed articles, which would then not have the whole Jack Russell spiel. Did I just contradict myself? Quill 01:15, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Do we want to list the stand-ins and stunt doubles of the various "stars"?
If so, how complete do we want to be?
I'm biased on this issue, because my Bear has a couple of cousins who served in those roles for Enzo in "My Dog Skip". (Bear's dam came from Hines Hill Kennel).
Area dogs picked to appear in film
-- jdege 19:52, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)
And while we're on the subject of screen and stage, how about a reference to Max, who played Milo in Jim Carrey's "The Mask". Which is without a doubt the best film portrayal yet of a JRT. -- jdege 20:07, 2005 Feb 9 (UTC)
I just noticed that the page uses "double coat" to describe the rough coats.
I'm no expert at this, but it was my impression that all of the JRT coat types, even the smooth coat, were "double coats".
Which would make this a misleading description at best.
-- jdege 13:14, 2005 Feb 26 (UTC)
If we're going to link to external pics of JRTs, wouldn't this be the best site?
-- jdege July 7, 2005 01:35 (UTC)
Agreed. That would be a better source for the pics of a modern JRT. I put the link there for the history portion more than the pics.
--
Counsel
19:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
Any of my
photos may be used. Please contact me for the appropriate size.
--
Tilers 18OCT2009 1:53 PM(CDT) —Preceding
undated comment added
18:58, 18 October 2009 (UTC).
Either it's a picture of a JRT, in which case it should be captioned as a picture of a JRT, or it's a picture of a PRT, and it shouldn't be on the JRT page at all. -- jdege 19:30, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
We have a shortage of good pics of JRTs in their many variants. (I'm going to a fun-day in a couple of weeks - I'l try to remember to bring my camera.)
So I don't object to the addition of a couple of pictures of Aussie JRTs, even if they're more artistic than informational.
But I'm not sure that they're appropriately placed on the page, and I am certain that the one of them is far too large.
Anyone else have thoughts?
-- jdege 14:36, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
The Truth About: The Jack Russell Terrier
-- jdege 16:41, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I was at a JRTCA Terrier Trial, today, and collected some pics of actual Jack Russells - as opposed to Parsons - in all of their variety.
I've uploaded them, and was wondering which of them people think might be appropriate for the Jack Russell page.
-- jdege 19:30, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Here is a new user template for your user page.
This user loves Jack Russells. |
it is produced with:
{{ User:UBX/Loves Jack Russells}}
The image topping this article is used both on this page and the Parson Russell Terrier page. I can't believe the same dog qualifies as both breeds, so someone might want to fix this little problem. Badbilltucker 23:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Did you know the Jack Russel's name was changed to Parson Russel!? Bulldawg399 23:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
This article states in different places that certain types of JRT's are decended from Mr. Russell's dogs. All of these statements are without citation with the exception of the statement that it is unlikely that any modern dogs are decended of Trump. Unless there is some sort of reliable backing for these claims, they should be removed.-- Counsel 19:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Where can I put this image? Dfrg.m s c 1 . 2 . Editor Review 21:36, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Since when did the Jack Russell Terrier become an Australian? this is like calling the American Pitbull an English Pitbull. The Australian breed description is not very forthcoming as to how they 'developed' the breed, development means that other breeds must have been used, so with all their history and pedigrees why isn't there more information about how this breed was developed? I am sure we on the outside would all like to know more. Evelyn. EvelynH1 13:21, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
This page had become a complete mess, and I have done a major rewrite and consolidation with an eye towards putting in some badly needed structure while cutting out repetition, goofiness, confusion, etc. Most of the pictures on this page do NOT show the JRT (from any registry) in good light -- a problem that remains. - P
_ _ _ _ _
The UKC and AKC Russell Terrier folks need to write their own entry in Wikipedia under "Russell Terrier" as the Parson Russell Terrier folks have done for their breed. The point is that the Russell Terrier folks are promoting a new breed with a different name, a different standard, and even a different history than the Jack Russell. I think it is a useful thing, for now, to keep the JRT page as a "gateway" page to the "controversy" (which is really just a confustion at this point), but the new breeds need to create new pages and not try to hammer their new breed description and history into a dog description that is not their own. It's time to "go and grow" their own entry for their distinct breed(s). - P
Although i don't agree with the name russell terrier i think your way off the mark and this is public property, you do not own the rights to the name JRT. EvelynH1 20:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, seriously... I've never read such a poorly-written Wikipedia article. Someone really needs to remake this page from the ground up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.219.168.94 ( talk) 01:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
REWRITE
2. http://www.copyright.gov/records/
If there were lawsuit’s that ruled on this subject matter they would have been made publicly accessible and published by now, simply not so. People need to start researching for themselves and not simply worship whatever is told to them, no matter how long somebody has been in the breed.
Opinions should not be included within the encyclopedia articles, hard facts with proof only, not heresy or wives tales passed on! Written books, unless written by Rev. Russell himself are merely just another opinion.
"-- jdege 18:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
There is no place within these legal documents stating that the name or breed is owned solely by the JRTCGB or JRTCA and that the words or name Jack Russell Terrier may not be used by any individual either private or other?. Oh, and we did get the page done, YAY!!! Happy New Year. -- HVJRT 07:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
David Brian Plummer, the author of "The Complete Jack Russell", "The Working Terrier", etc., and the orginator of the Plummer Terrier, wrote about the JRT, in "Tales of a Rat-Hunting Man":
Most terriers will kill rats moderatly well. Even breeds like scotties, West Highland whites, cairns and Manchester terriers, whose ancestors have not seen hunting for a hundred years or so, will usually galvanize at the sight of a fleeing rat. The serious rat hunter (is there really such a beast?) would do well to consider going for any of the three breeds of terrier that are still worked regularly, namely the Lakeland, the border, and the multitude of canine sins lumped together and called collectively the Jack Russell Terrier. Today there is a tendency to call any white-bodited mongrel with a short tail a Jack Russell terrier, though, with the formation of the newly established Jack Russell Club of Great Britain, perhaps a more genuine article will be established in the not to far distant future. I make no bones about it, however. My best ratting terriers have been some of the assorted hotchpotch we call Jack Russells.
-- jdege 06:49, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
ROFL & what the heck did Brian Plimmer know about terriers? please go play games elsewhere, the man bred dogs in puppy farm conditions crossbred bull terriers and all sorts of things together to create his own breed, yet no genuine terrieman in the UK will even own a plummer terrier. What he wrote in his books was knoweldge passed onto him from good terriermen who never did get the recogntion for it. By the way most of the pictures above of so called JRTs look like white lakeland fell terriers, pure indeed????? EvelynH1 20:06, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
In less than a week all kinds of interesting things were added to this page, most of them by folks that -- from what I can tell -- have dogs that are registered as "Russell Terriers". The good news (yes, there is good news!) is that a Russell Terrier page was started and, to help things along, I have also added a page (which needs fleshing out]] on the Australian Jack Russell Terrier. Since these breeds have different registries, different descriptions, and different histories, I think they need their own entry. Have at it people! I have left a note about the FCI Jack Russell Terrier in the JRT description and links all over to the Russell Terrier and Parson Russell Terrier. Perhaps, with separate entries and some good-natured cross-links to each other, all the folks with small white scruffy dogs can find their breed, registry, breed description and history. I trust the Parson and Jack Russell people will let the Russell and FCI Australian Jack Russell Terrier folks do their thing and vice-versa. I think the recent histories of the Parson, Russell and FCI Russell really * DO * need to be put down before they are lost in the ether of mythology. - PBurns3711
It is a stretch to claim the JRT is not a breed but a type... dogs such as feists represent a type, while the JRT is recognizable and breed true. Just because a breed is not 'pure bred' does not mean it is not a breed, many working terriers are still considered breeds by the general community even though not 'pure bred' and AKC/UKC recognized...
Recommend "breed" be reinstated in the introduction... furthermore there are currently inconsistencies in the article as the word "breed" appears several times. Macboots 18:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
I've come here wanting to know the differences between the Jack Russell Terriers - and it's not easy working it out. The " Is a Jack Russell Defined by Function, Form, Registry, or Name?" and " Controversy" sections are not up to the standard of the rest of the article. I mostly get the impession that JRTCA is good and FCI is bad. How about a removing those headings and changing to "Breed development" (same heading from way back), leave the first half of the "Is a Jack Russell Defined..." and then have sub headings of "Function" and "Form" with each of the four? dogs explained (with the Kennel club info) under the relevant sub heading. It'll get the focus on the dogs and their articles - which, I imagine, is what most readers are after - Ctbolt 09:49, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
G'day...
The statements "The FCI is not a registry and does not issue pedigrees -- it is a collection of national canine societies. Neither The Kennel Club (UK) or the American Kennel Club are affiliated members of the FCI." are weasel words and do not express a nuetral point of view.
The section on "Is a Jack Russell Defined by function, form, registry, or name?" (especially in regards to the FCI) needs to be cleaned up in this respect.
-- Belfry 12:33, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 03:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
In the "Temperament" section, there is a reference that says "According to www.jack-russel-pictures.com ..." This site no longer exists (did it ever?), and the reference should probably be removed. I had a look, but didnt find out what was there before the the link, or what is an appropriate replacement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Knutsi ( talk • contribs) 13:24, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
The image Image:Moose screenshot.JPG is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. -- 22:24, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Do we need any more pictures for this article? I can easily obtain some. YelloCello ( talk) 14:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't we say something about a Jack Russell being on the TV show Fraiser? Just a thought. YelloCello ( talk) 14:05, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
In other countries outside USA, the FCI type Jack Russell Terrier is known simply as "Jack Russell Terrier". (not "Russell Terrier" or anything else, see for example de:Jack Russell Terrier.) The "American type" Jack Russell Terrier is called "Parson Russell Terrier" (Ths includes the UK Kennel Club). This is very confusing. Even in this article, the first picture is of a long-legged one, while the two pictures in the "Temperament" section are of short-legged ones... (the Russell Terrier article alternating between R. T. and J. R. T. adds to the confusion. (but at least clarifies the differences) In order to avoid {{Globalize/USA}}, could a short paragraph and/or a redirect clarifying the situation be included? -- megA ( talk) 20:10, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
long-legged | short-legged | |
JRTCA (USA) and affiliates | Jack Russell Terrier | Russell Terrier or JRT (FCI) or Australian JRT |
Kennel Club (UK) | Parson Russell Terrier | (N/A) |
FCI (elsewhere) | Parson Russell Terrier | Jack Russell Terrier |
I've tagged the fact that they originated in fox hunting as dubious. This because it is uncited and I think that this is unrealistic. Jack Russells are smaller than foxes for starters so wouldn't be good for hunting. In the UK at least fox hounds are the only dogs used to hunt. From what I've heard (and seen in my original research!) Jack Russells are farm dogs whose main function would be to kill rodents. If you have a reliable source for the fox hunting claim please add it. Smartse ( talk) 15:15, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
-- 98.108.101.199 ( talk) 01:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)we have a jack russell terrier and was wondering do all these dogs get hot spots and scratch alot He doesnt have fleas we have been giving him vitamins for his shedding and dry skin but it doesnt seem to help any suggestions
The current organization of the several articles covering Jack Russell Terriers are badly in need of a reorganization. This article should be replaced with an overview article covering what is widely known both historically, popularly, and throughout the world as "Jack Russell Terrier", and then several breed-standard or location-specific uses of the name could be discussed, along with links to new articles discussing each. For example, most of the contents of this article should be moved to a new article called JRTCA Jack Russell Terrier. — Aldaron • T/ C 14:34, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I believe what that link refers to is not to use exactly the article name you want to, "JRTCA Jack Russell Terrier" is more specific than what is necessary. Not refering to the breed standard that has been set for the dog known as the Jack Russell Terrier, and protected by the parent club the JRTCA, would be akin to describing any white dog with black spots as a dalmation. In order to keep the information in this article valid and informative why would you not want to describe the breed with as much detail as is available? The "Jack Russell" is the dog that belongs to the JRTCA and fits the standard set forth by this club. The "Parson Russell Terrier" and the "Russell Terrier" are distinctly different dogs. Please research information on this breed before making reccomendations on its discription. A good place to start is www.therealjackrussell.com 207.47.246.99 ( talk) 08:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
Registered trademarks have no validity outside the country of registration. Jack Russell Terriers exist worldwide and Wikipedia also exists worldwide, therefore to cite a registered trademark unique to the US is invalid. Indeed the term Jack Russell was in use in the UK as early as 1883 [1]. Remember that America does not constitute the whole world! Jack Russell Owner UK... 81.108.89.232 ( talk) 19:33, 14 February 2010 (UTC) I didn't say JRTCA, I said JRTC. There are many affiliated clubs around the world, with the oldest being the JRTCGB. They were established for the purpose of protecting the JRT, and keeping it the hunting terrier that was known by that name in 1883. -- jdege ( talk) 13:48, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
This article, though greatly improved, still lacks clear focus. Is it about the one specific breed standard, or is it about the collection of dogs as commonly known? — Aldaron • T/ C 04:50, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
The link for The Truth Behind Hollywood Russells is broken and needs to be fixed or removed. I think that the line about the dog in The Mask should be moved to Well-know Jack Russell Terriers and his name is Max see http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1247354/ this is also mentioned in the The Mask speacil feature "What Makes Fido Run" of the DVD. His trainer refure to Max as a Jack Russell Terrier and Iwhould think thay they wouldn't make a mastake on breeds. -- Ebnielsen ( talk) 23:22, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
Please discuss here instead of edit warring. Should bve easy since none of you can edit the page for the next three days. Continued edit warring after protection expires will lead to blocks being handed out. Beeblebrox ( talk) 00:02, 13 February 2010 (UTC)
Information that relates to the Jack Russell Terrier as a breed should be left in the article. This is a recognized BREED and as such has a breed standard. The name has been used, incorrectly, to describe a wide variety of dogs but ONLY pertains to the actual dogs registered as such. Not refering to the established breed standard to describe the dog or calling all small white dogs that resemble a JRT is as incorrect as refering to all spotted dogs as "Dalmations". The Parson is a spereate breed, as is the Russell Terrier and have breed standards as well. Please if you are going to edit this article eductae yourself on the breed and refer to the standards and information set forth in the poarent club, the Jack Russell Terrier Club of America or the Jack Russell Terrier Club of Canada. 207.47.246.99 ( talk) 06:58, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
It would be very helpful as well if someone would add some reputable information about distinguishing these terriers from Rat Terriers...particularly Rat Terriers who have ears that do not stand up. --CucFan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.218.3.246 ( talk) 22:18, 16 February 2010 (UTC)
Below are sections with brief descriptions of of what I believe should be in those sections. By all means feel free to add/remove/rearrange as you see fit (and of course, comment!). All I ask is that if you remove anything from a section please strike through the text rather than completely deleting, as that way we can see what's gone. Miyagawa (talk) 19:54, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
Lead paragraph A good guide is roughly one sentence to each couple of paragraphs in the article.
Description A generic description of a Jack Russell Type dog. Best to be cited from an independent JRT book. No standard related information in this section, however it should be mentioned that the JRT is a term used for a variety of small mostly white type terriers.
Subsection in here regarding the standards, with comparisons if there are any differences (for instance in the Welsh Springer Spaniel article that I'm currently working on it discusses the difference between the KC and AKC standards with regard to the nose. Also could discuss the difference between standardised dogs and those in common use by hunters or as pets (depending on availability of reliable references).
Temperament Pretty much what we already have, just with citations added, and with the text edited to fit them where necessary.
Health A paragraph or two on common health conditions including a reliably cited average lifespan. Subsections for any major health issues.
History The term of Jack Russell Terrier is the original term and therefore this needs to cover the split into Parson and Russell Terriers. A good example is how English Cocker Spaniel discusses the creation of the American Cocker Spaniel. Keep it perfectly neutral, present the facts and don't dismiss any breed as being inferior to another. The current text is probably fine but is only a start, and needs a bit of a copy edit for flow as well.
Add any information on historical hunting styles.
Paragraphs on any issues during the two world wars (a common issue in British breeds). I imagine being a predominantly hunting breed they might not have been as affected as other more show related terrier breeds. Formation of breed clubs, introduction and recognition by countries and kennel clubs.a
Well-known Jack Russell Terriers This section is fine to stay as it is.
To my knowledge the WWs have not affected this breed too much but information on the JRTC/KC split and the newer british hunting and tail docking laws may be of interest. 207.47.246.99 ( talk) 02:27, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
Going to start making the edits to the article over this weekend, if there's any random characters suddenly appearing in the middle of a paragraph that'll be my Jack Russell trying to help out. :) Created this subsection of the article design so we can discuss any particular edits that I've made and fix any issues here rather than reverting and re-reverting back and forth in the article space itself. Miyagawa (talk) 10:10, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The Russell Terrier page seems to less controversially handle the origin of the JRT, while accurately dividing up Parsons, JRT's and Russells. It's sourced fairly sparcely, however.
Both links contained in the "Eddie" and "Wishbone" secitons lead to dead links. The claims that these dogs were in fact Parsons seems unsubstantiated. The pages for the animals themselves reference them as JRTs, and they pre-date the whole 'Parson/JRT' debate. Alternatively, if someone can prove that they are Parsons then they should not be on the JRT page, and their main pages should be amended.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirtyharry2 ( talk • contribs) 07:19, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
"and Mariah Carey
has a few, including her dog Jack".
I would say this is useless trivia, and removed it. If it's not, it should have its own information set forth, and not simply appended to the portion on the hero/pitball dog. It's also unsourced, although Google found me lots of pages referencing the dog's existence. But does the mere fact that a celebrity owns a certain breed warrant mention? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dirtyharry2 ( talk • contribs) 17:03, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |