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There are too many irrelevant digressions about 'little known facts', he is a boxer who didn't really shine till after the war results so I let just concentrate on his formative experiences in the early life section. I suppose it is ok to give results if you want to add them in a more encyclopedic phrasing. Overagainst ( talk) 19:53, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
If any long quote from Willard is to be given prominence, it should be the one most representative of what he thought about the fight. Fact is, Willard was quite clear it was "gangsterism" that defeated him. He was still saying that decades later, he said it felt like a knuckleduster and a glove couldn't have been that hard. (see The Free Lance-Star - Mar 23, 1948.). If an account of his injuries is to be given it should be an actual ringside report. The ones I have seem say that 20 seconds into the 2nd round, right eye was completely closed and the area around it was so swollen it protruded far out beyond his face, the right side (and only the right side) of Willards face was had multiple cuts "fountains of blood" that played around the ring and doused Dempsey in blood. Syracuse NY Daily Journal 1919 . the well known journalist Grantland Rice described "fountains of gore". It really will not do to have some obscure person quoted that Willard was as right as rain. And there is a book by an experienced boxing cornerman and MD that says the injuries on his face [1] look like bone fractures, more consistant with being hit with a ball pein hammer than a boxing glove . (My edit " According to boxing doctor Ferdie Pacheco a still photograph appears to show a type of swelling on the face of Willard that is consistent with bone fractures caused by a metal object with a small surface area.").
Also "Another discrepancy was, when Tunney knocked Dempsey down, the referee started the count immediately, not waiting for Tunney to move to a neutral corner.[26] Because of the controversial nature of the fight, it remains known in history as the fight of "the Long Count." POV, I don't known where the first discrepancy is supposed to be, as Dempsey disregarded the referee's instructions. Tunney beat the count that the referee made, and it is the referee's count and not the time on the canvas while the opponent is holding up the count by disregarding referee's instruction which matters. Referee Mills Lane discussed the issue of when a count starts in Pacheco's book. The count over Dempsey was standard practice, not any kind of discrepancy. Overagainst ( talk) 19:46, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
There's still a burden of proof for things to be put into an article, whether BLP or non-BLP, wouldn't you agree? LHM ask me a question 19:22, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Rickard was a child molester? And you really think that's a relevant argument? 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 00:17, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Our coverage can go no further than the reliable sources take us. And much of what you wrote above is, while interesting, unacceptable in the context of Wikipedia, given that it constitutes synthesis. We have mentioned the claims Willard made later in life. We have mentioned that Kearns tried to gin up rumors about it, that were wholly unsubstantiated. I'm just not sure what you want us to do here. Do you really want the theory that Dempsey cheated (which is not widely accepted amongst boxing historians, to be given equal weight to the widely accepted view that, while rumors circulated, there has never been one shred of actual evidence presented that Dempsey cheated? The fact that rumors circulated is mentioned and discussed in the article. In my view, that's really as far as we can go. LHM ask me a question 20:28, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
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I think the footnotes section can be merged into the references. Quotes of what is summarized/paraphrased in the article content are not necessary, they don't seem to add anything. MrBill3 ( talk) 12:52, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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it says he was buried in New York. Thats not true. His sister Ann told me his ashes were spread out at the base of an apple tree at his nieces house in California. I grew up across the street from Jacks sister, brother in law, and their son. 2601:248:5282:35D0:75AD:55D2:FAD7:BBF5 ( talk) 20:49, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Kearns had bet their entire purse that Dempsey would win by first round knockout---not exactly a sucker's bet,since Dempsey had knocked out three leading contenders in a row in the first round. Kearns knew the fight wasn't over, but he hustled Dempsey out of the ring hoping to w in on a bluff. Ring officials didn't fall for it and ordered them back into the ring or be disqualified.
Kearns also wrote in his memoirs that he bribed several small town fire departments to go back and forth with sirens blaring near Willard's training camp,ensuring he'd get no sleep on the night before the fight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.23.5.11 ( talk) 20:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
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There are too many irrelevant digressions about 'little known facts', he is a boxer who didn't really shine till after the war results so I let just concentrate on his formative experiences in the early life section. I suppose it is ok to give results if you want to add them in a more encyclopedic phrasing. Overagainst ( talk) 19:53, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
If any long quote from Willard is to be given prominence, it should be the one most representative of what he thought about the fight. Fact is, Willard was quite clear it was "gangsterism" that defeated him. He was still saying that decades later, he said it felt like a knuckleduster and a glove couldn't have been that hard. (see The Free Lance-Star - Mar 23, 1948.). If an account of his injuries is to be given it should be an actual ringside report. The ones I have seem say that 20 seconds into the 2nd round, right eye was completely closed and the area around it was so swollen it protruded far out beyond his face, the right side (and only the right side) of Willards face was had multiple cuts "fountains of blood" that played around the ring and doused Dempsey in blood. Syracuse NY Daily Journal 1919 . the well known journalist Grantland Rice described "fountains of gore". It really will not do to have some obscure person quoted that Willard was as right as rain. And there is a book by an experienced boxing cornerman and MD that says the injuries on his face [1] look like bone fractures, more consistant with being hit with a ball pein hammer than a boxing glove . (My edit " According to boxing doctor Ferdie Pacheco a still photograph appears to show a type of swelling on the face of Willard that is consistent with bone fractures caused by a metal object with a small surface area.").
Also "Another discrepancy was, when Tunney knocked Dempsey down, the referee started the count immediately, not waiting for Tunney to move to a neutral corner.[26] Because of the controversial nature of the fight, it remains known in history as the fight of "the Long Count." POV, I don't known where the first discrepancy is supposed to be, as Dempsey disregarded the referee's instructions. Tunney beat the count that the referee made, and it is the referee's count and not the time on the canvas while the opponent is holding up the count by disregarding referee's instruction which matters. Referee Mills Lane discussed the issue of when a count starts in Pacheco's book. The count over Dempsey was standard practice, not any kind of discrepancy. Overagainst ( talk) 19:46, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
There's still a burden of proof for things to be put into an article, whether BLP or non-BLP, wouldn't you agree? LHM ask me a question 19:22, 23 September 2014 (UTC)
Rickard was a child molester? And you really think that's a relevant argument? 7&6=thirteen ( ☎) 00:17, 24 September 2014 (UTC)
Our coverage can go no further than the reliable sources take us. And much of what you wrote above is, while interesting, unacceptable in the context of Wikipedia, given that it constitutes synthesis. We have mentioned the claims Willard made later in life. We have mentioned that Kearns tried to gin up rumors about it, that were wholly unsubstantiated. I'm just not sure what you want us to do here. Do you really want the theory that Dempsey cheated (which is not widely accepted amongst boxing historians, to be given equal weight to the widely accepted view that, while rumors circulated, there has never been one shred of actual evidence presented that Dempsey cheated? The fact that rumors circulated is mentioned and discussed in the article. In my view, that's really as far as we can go. LHM ask me a question 20:28, 27 September 2014 (UTC)
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I think the footnotes section can be merged into the references. Quotes of what is summarized/paraphrased in the article content are not necessary, they don't seem to add anything. MrBill3 ( talk) 12:52, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
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it says he was buried in New York. Thats not true. His sister Ann told me his ashes were spread out at the base of an apple tree at his nieces house in California. I grew up across the street from Jacks sister, brother in law, and their son. 2601:248:5282:35D0:75AD:55D2:FAD7:BBF5 ( talk) 20:49, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Kearns had bet their entire purse that Dempsey would win by first round knockout---not exactly a sucker's bet,since Dempsey had knocked out three leading contenders in a row in the first round. Kearns knew the fight wasn't over, but he hustled Dempsey out of the ring hoping to w in on a bluff. Ring officials didn't fall for it and ordered them back into the ring or be disqualified.
Kearns also wrote in his memoirs that he bribed several small town fire departments to go back and forth with sirens blaring near Willard's training camp,ensuring he'd get no sleep on the night before the fight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.23.5.11 ( talk) 20:07, 9 January 2024 (UTC)