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The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 09:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Jovan Damjanić → János Damjanich – {per googlefight [1] or [2], plus played a significant role in Hungarian history, where he's name is written in by the hungarian spelling (since "ć" does not exist in Hungarian alphabet), and possibly this form is used in english. Or: See simple google hits}
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
This page says he used Hungarian at home. However I couldn't find any webpage that would say what he called himself. We should look for his letters or something, but apparently that's nowhere online.
About the google fight, a very large number of hits are names of streets, or schools, or museums... so that's not relevant. However, given the fact that he considered himself Hungarian and fought for the Hungarian cause, I'd suppose he used the Hungarian variant of his name. Anyone got a source for the opposite? K issL 09:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
How's this for googlefight [5] :) Seriously though, this is almost always taken out of context - in the same way as above. István 19:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
"D fought against the Serbs because they fought on the Habsburg side, without mentioning this fact the paragraph is biased against him"
Zello, this is ridiculous. Kosut started war against Serbs before they became allies of Habsburgs. In fact, Serbs in the beginning supported Hungarian revolution with hopes that this revolution would bring freedom to all nationalities that lived in the Kingdom of Hungary. However, since Kosut was just a blind nationalist, he insulted representatives of Serbs who were sent to meet him and said that "sword will decide between Hungarians and Serbs". Only after that war between Serbs and Hungarians started and only after that Serbs became allies of Habsburgs. So, please do not try to say that consequence was cause. Also, the "controversy" section has a purpose to describe what is a controversy here and the controversy is that one ethnic Serbs fought against his own people during the war. If we want to search for reasons why he fought against them, then I believe his personal reasons would be the issue here - he certainly did not fought against Serbs because "Serbs fought on the Habsburg side" but because he was Serb who became Magyar (Serbs in fact have terms for such persons like Mađaron, Poturica, etc, with meaning "the one who became Magyar", "the one who became Turk", etc, which make difference between them and real Magyars, Turks, etc) thus his real personal motives behind this were attempts to delete his (unwanted) past - "Poturica is the greater Turk than the Turks themselves" (that is an old Serbian saying which very good describe those personal motives). PANONIAN (talk) 23:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Serbs proclaimed on May 13-15 in Karlovic that they will establish a Serbian Vojvodina ON the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary. That was a separatist movement that the Hungarian government never accepted so war broke out with the Serbs looting and murdering Hungarian (and German!) population in the southern counties. Habsburgs supported the Serbs at first clandestinely but later openly as they became more and more estranged from the Hungarian government. You can think anything about the motivation of Damjanich but he considered himself the general of the Hungarian government so he went to fight against the Serb uprising defending the territorial integrity of the country. The paragraph is biased against Damjanich as it presents him only according to the Serb view that is naturally very hostile. Zello 23:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Serb views are already presented in the section but controvery doesn't mean that only the hostile POV is mentioned without the other side. Zello 18:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Hungarians consider him a general who fought against the separatist Serb forces and the absolutist Habsburg government, supporting these forces. This view is not presented in your version. Zello 23:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Serbs were separatist because they intended to establish their own autonomous state on the territory of the KoH. That meant territorial loss of Hungary. Until September 1848 the Hungarian government wasn't revolutionary but the legal, accepted government of the country approved by the Habsburg monarch. There was no intention to cut ties with the monarchy until the Habsburgs began supporting Serb rebels and later the attack of Jellačić. The ties were cut by the Habsburgs who weren't able to accept the concept of constitutional monarchy instead of absolutism and used nationalities as their tools in the game. Zello 01:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Write what you want. Zello 20:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Its shade that Ladislav Košút (Lajosz Kosut) Hungarians blind nationalist, was originaly Slovak from nort Slowakia and hated its own people, as general János Damjanich hated Serbs. 195.91.10.71 ( talk) 16:05, 28 April 2013 (UTC)Bynk
Due to the recent controversy about monument dedicated to Jovan Damjanić in Ada, professor Lajoš Bala criticized this Wikipedia article in Serbian newspaper "Danas" (Wednesday, March 23, 2011, page 14), where he stated that Wikipedia is not reliable and that Damjanić's anti-Serb statements are not supported by the sources.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
János Damjanich article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED per discussion below. - GTBacchus( talk) 09:52, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Jovan Damjanić → János Damjanich – {per googlefight [1] or [2], plus played a significant role in Hungarian history, where he's name is written in by the hungarian spelling (since "ć" does not exist in Hungarian alphabet), and possibly this form is used in english. Or: See simple google hits}
Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~
This page says he used Hungarian at home. However I couldn't find any webpage that would say what he called himself. We should look for his letters or something, but apparently that's nowhere online.
About the google fight, a very large number of hits are names of streets, or schools, or museums... so that's not relevant. However, given the fact that he considered himself Hungarian and fought for the Hungarian cause, I'd suppose he used the Hungarian variant of his name. Anyone got a source for the opposite? K issL 09:48, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
How's this for googlefight [5] :) Seriously though, this is almost always taken out of context - in the same way as above. István 19:58, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
"D fought against the Serbs because they fought on the Habsburg side, without mentioning this fact the paragraph is biased against him"
Zello, this is ridiculous. Kosut started war against Serbs before they became allies of Habsburgs. In fact, Serbs in the beginning supported Hungarian revolution with hopes that this revolution would bring freedom to all nationalities that lived in the Kingdom of Hungary. However, since Kosut was just a blind nationalist, he insulted representatives of Serbs who were sent to meet him and said that "sword will decide between Hungarians and Serbs". Only after that war between Serbs and Hungarians started and only after that Serbs became allies of Habsburgs. So, please do not try to say that consequence was cause. Also, the "controversy" section has a purpose to describe what is a controversy here and the controversy is that one ethnic Serbs fought against his own people during the war. If we want to search for reasons why he fought against them, then I believe his personal reasons would be the issue here - he certainly did not fought against Serbs because "Serbs fought on the Habsburg side" but because he was Serb who became Magyar (Serbs in fact have terms for such persons like Mađaron, Poturica, etc, with meaning "the one who became Magyar", "the one who became Turk", etc, which make difference between them and real Magyars, Turks, etc) thus his real personal motives behind this were attempts to delete his (unwanted) past - "Poturica is the greater Turk than the Turks themselves" (that is an old Serbian saying which very good describe those personal motives). PANONIAN (talk) 23:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Serbs proclaimed on May 13-15 in Karlovic that they will establish a Serbian Vojvodina ON the territory of the Kingdom of Hungary. That was a separatist movement that the Hungarian government never accepted so war broke out with the Serbs looting and murdering Hungarian (and German!) population in the southern counties. Habsburgs supported the Serbs at first clandestinely but later openly as they became more and more estranged from the Hungarian government. You can think anything about the motivation of Damjanich but he considered himself the general of the Hungarian government so he went to fight against the Serb uprising defending the territorial integrity of the country. The paragraph is biased against Damjanich as it presents him only according to the Serb view that is naturally very hostile. Zello 23:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Serb views are already presented in the section but controvery doesn't mean that only the hostile POV is mentioned without the other side. Zello 18:25, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Hungarians consider him a general who fought against the separatist Serb forces and the absolutist Habsburg government, supporting these forces. This view is not presented in your version. Zello 23:28, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Serbs were separatist because they intended to establish their own autonomous state on the territory of the KoH. That meant territorial loss of Hungary. Until September 1848 the Hungarian government wasn't revolutionary but the legal, accepted government of the country approved by the Habsburg monarch. There was no intention to cut ties with the monarchy until the Habsburgs began supporting Serb rebels and later the attack of Jellačić. The ties were cut by the Habsburgs who weren't able to accept the concept of constitutional monarchy instead of absolutism and used nationalities as their tools in the game. Zello 01:22, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Write what you want. Zello 20:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Its shade that Ladislav Košút (Lajosz Kosut) Hungarians blind nationalist, was originaly Slovak from nort Slowakia and hated its own people, as general János Damjanich hated Serbs. 195.91.10.71 ( talk) 16:05, 28 April 2013 (UTC)Bynk
Due to the recent controversy about monument dedicated to Jovan Damjanić in Ada, professor Lajoš Bala criticized this Wikipedia article in Serbian newspaper "Danas" (Wednesday, March 23, 2011, page 14), where he stated that Wikipedia is not reliable and that Damjanić's anti-Serb statements are not supported by the sources.