This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I added back the following removed section with citations
Migrations to Sri Lanka;According to a primary source called Mahavamsa, Brahmins in general are known in written Sri Lankan history from the beginings of Indic migrations to the island from about 500 BCE. Currently Tamil Brahmins are an important part of the Sri Lankan Tamil ethnic group in Sri Lanka.[42] Tamil Brahmins played an important historic role in the formation of the Jaffna Kingdom circa thirteenth century.[43] (See Aryacakravarti dynasty)[44]
I understand most editors to this article are Indians, so information about non Indian content may not be familiar to them as well as sources that back them up. I have cited all sentences except the first sentence which is a universal truth to any student of Sri Lankan history. It establishes the context of Brahamana presence in the island. Bamunu as they were called in Prakrit have number of epigraphic evidence throughout the country. If challenged, I will add citation for that sentence too. But all the other facts that may be unknown to Indian writers of this article has been cited with three WP:RS citations whose authors are well known and well respected Sri Lankan historians and professors. Taprobanus ( talk) 18:04, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Arya Chakravarthi dynasty was founded by Gangas (more related to Gounders, Gowdas ) a dravidian dynasty from Rameshwaram in Tamil Nadu. When the dynasty was founded around 1000 AD iyers were not found in Tamil Nadu. [1] Most Iyers migrated to Jaffna in the Naicker period.
Sonindsoil (
talk)
12:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
See this quote by Professor Hart You can't blame the Brahmins for this. In fact, the most pernicious example of the caste system was in the Tamil areas of Sri Lanka, where there are virtually no Brahmins and never have been. He is a linguist not a historian or an anthropologits. He is totally wrong on many aspects of this statement, I would say he is 100% totally wrong. Sri Lankan Tamil caste system is not worst or better than any caste system and to claim that Brahmins have been non exitant in this cultute is to deny that Jaffna kingdom created and ruled by the Tamil Brahmin Aryacakravarti dynasty is a hoax. This inflamatory statement has to be removed or the section has to be neutralized or the section violates neutrality and accuracy. Thanks Taprobanus ( talk) 18:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Well the section does not violate POV as per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ.- Ravichandar 06:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, personally speaking, it is easier to comment upon the quality or neutrality of an article. Thank you for your views. :-) - Ravichandar 14:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
To the anonymous vandal who has been frequently introducing unsourced libelious nonsense, I wish to inform that Ramanuja who lived long before the rise of Vijayanagar was, by birth, a Vadama Brahmin thereby posing a serious threat to his claims. - Ravichandar 15:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Someone has been vandalising this article from multiple IPs.
All these vandalisms could be attributed to one and the same person who is behaving in such a manner to avoid edit blocks. - Ravichandar 13:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The whole section is synthesis of certain cited material. The sources that cite Iyers to be lighter skinned and have affinities to Central Asia does not have to directly correlate with the invasion of "non Aryan" Tamil Nadu by "Aryan" Brahmans. The fact that Iyers have lighter skin on average could very likely be due to occupational reasons and many communities in Tamil Nadu and south India such as the Chenchus and the Badagas have affinities to Central Asia, but they aren't suggested as "Aryan invaders". This also heavily refers to the now outdated theory of an "invasion", rather than the undetermined amount of IE speaking migration currently postulated. These sources should not be under a ridiculous "Iyer and Aryan Invasion" heading, as it could not be further unlikely that this was actually the case i.e vegetarian pacifist defenseless Brahmins somehow overpowering "pre-Iyer" kings and their standing armies and the pre-Iyer populace. I suggest the cited material in this section should be transferred to a broad "Theories of origin" section where Iyers can be suggested as being more recent immigrants from the north (or east or central or west) India, though recent in this case is still a fair while back. Trips ( talk) 03:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
That may be but you seem to miss the point. Iyers are not "invaders", and Hindus and Arya existed in Tamil Nadu independent and previous to the known presence of the Iyer community in Tamil Nadu. You mean non-Tamil Indo-Aryan external origins which is likely and better worded than "Iyers and the Aryan Invasion Theory". I will attempt to rework the section and you can tell me what disputes you have with it if any. Trips ( talk) 13:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I read the text passage and i can't see any kind of connection between Iyers and the "Aryan Invasion Theory". Some studies say, that Iyers share similar genetic marks with some of central asian people. But there is no single connection on the Aryan Invasion Theory. Still today people come from Central Asia to South India. Do they also have something to do with that Aryan Invasion? I will rename the block in "Speculations on origin of the Iyers" -- Kalarimaster ( talk) 18:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I added back the following removed section with citations
Migrations to Sri Lanka;According to a primary source called Mahavamsa, Brahmins in general are known in written Sri Lankan history from the beginings of Indic migrations to the island from about 500 BCE. Currently Tamil Brahmins are an important part of the Sri Lankan Tamil ethnic group in Sri Lanka.[42] Tamil Brahmins played an important historic role in the formation of the Jaffna Kingdom circa thirteenth century.[43] (See Aryacakravarti dynasty)[44]
I understand most editors to this article are Indians, so information about non Indian content may not be familiar to them as well as sources that back them up. I have cited all sentences except the first sentence which is a universal truth to any student of Sri Lankan history. It establishes the context of Brahamana presence in the island. Bamunu as they were called in Prakrit have number of epigraphic evidence throughout the country. If challenged, I will add citation for that sentence too. But all the other facts that may be unknown to Indian writers of this article has been cited with three WP:RS citations whose authors are well known and well respected Sri Lankan historians and professors. Taprobanus ( talk) 18:04, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Arya Chakravarthi dynasty was founded by Gangas (more related to Gounders, Gowdas ) a dravidian dynasty from Rameshwaram in Tamil Nadu. When the dynasty was founded around 1000 AD iyers were not found in Tamil Nadu. [1] Most Iyers migrated to Jaffna in the Naicker period.
Sonindsoil (
talk)
12:55, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
See this quote by Professor Hart You can't blame the Brahmins for this. In fact, the most pernicious example of the caste system was in the Tamil areas of Sri Lanka, where there are virtually no Brahmins and never have been. He is a linguist not a historian or an anthropologits. He is totally wrong on many aspects of this statement, I would say he is 100% totally wrong. Sri Lankan Tamil caste system is not worst or better than any caste system and to claim that Brahmins have been non exitant in this cultute is to deny that Jaffna kingdom created and ruled by the Tamil Brahmin Aryacakravarti dynasty is a hoax. This inflamatory statement has to be removed or the section has to be neutralized or the section violates neutrality and accuracy. Thanks Taprobanus ( talk) 18:00, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Well the section does not violate POV as per Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ.- Ravichandar 06:29, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Well, personally speaking, it is easier to comment upon the quality or neutrality of an article. Thank you for your views. :-) - Ravichandar 14:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
To the anonymous vandal who has been frequently introducing unsourced libelious nonsense, I wish to inform that Ramanuja who lived long before the rise of Vijayanagar was, by birth, a Vadama Brahmin thereby posing a serious threat to his claims. - Ravichandar 15:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Someone has been vandalising this article from multiple IPs.
All these vandalisms could be attributed to one and the same person who is behaving in such a manner to avoid edit blocks. - Ravichandar 13:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
The whole section is synthesis of certain cited material. The sources that cite Iyers to be lighter skinned and have affinities to Central Asia does not have to directly correlate with the invasion of "non Aryan" Tamil Nadu by "Aryan" Brahmans. The fact that Iyers have lighter skin on average could very likely be due to occupational reasons and many communities in Tamil Nadu and south India such as the Chenchus and the Badagas have affinities to Central Asia, but they aren't suggested as "Aryan invaders". This also heavily refers to the now outdated theory of an "invasion", rather than the undetermined amount of IE speaking migration currently postulated. These sources should not be under a ridiculous "Iyer and Aryan Invasion" heading, as it could not be further unlikely that this was actually the case i.e vegetarian pacifist defenseless Brahmins somehow overpowering "pre-Iyer" kings and their standing armies and the pre-Iyer populace. I suggest the cited material in this section should be transferred to a broad "Theories of origin" section where Iyers can be suggested as being more recent immigrants from the north (or east or central or west) India, though recent in this case is still a fair while back. Trips ( talk) 03:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
That may be but you seem to miss the point. Iyers are not "invaders", and Hindus and Arya existed in Tamil Nadu independent and previous to the known presence of the Iyer community in Tamil Nadu. You mean non-Tamil Indo-Aryan external origins which is likely and better worded than "Iyers and the Aryan Invasion Theory". I will attempt to rework the section and you can tell me what disputes you have with it if any. Trips ( talk) 13:59, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
I read the text passage and i can't see any kind of connection between Iyers and the "Aryan Invasion Theory". Some studies say, that Iyers share similar genetic marks with some of central asian people. But there is no single connection on the Aryan Invasion Theory. Still today people come from Central Asia to South India. Do they also have something to do with that Aryan Invasion? I will rename the block in "Speculations on origin of the Iyers" -- Kalarimaster ( talk) 18:22, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |