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In the Americas and parts of Nigeria, such as Ode Remo and parts of Ijebuland, the position of the Iyalawo as a divining priestess of Ifá is contested on the grounds that in the Ifá Odus Ogunda Ka and Oshe Yekun, no one can become a full Awo Ifá without the presence of Orisha Odu, and in the Odu Ifá Irete Ntelu (Irete Ogbe), Odu herself says that she would only marry Orunmila if he promised not to permit women to be in the same room as her. These views appear to be suggested by books published in Nigeria as far back as the 19th century. For instance, the eminent Yoruba author James Johnson wrote in one of the most detailed early descriptions of Ifá that "Whenever this should be the case, a woman would receive from a Babalawo only one Ikin or Consecrated Palm nut called Eko, which she would carry about her body for her protection, and whenever divination should recommend and prescribe to her sacrifice to Ifa, she would, for the time being, hand over her Eko either to her husband or to her brother, or any other male relative according to prescription, who would include it in his own Ikins for the purpose of the worship and sacrifice in which she would participate." [1] William Bascom, the foremost academic authority on Ifá among the Yoruba up until the time of his death, conducted extensive field work Yorubaland in 1937-38, 1950–51, and as late as 1960 and 1965. This field work was conducted in a large number of areas of Yorubaland including the cities of Ife, Igana, Meko, Oyo, Ilesa, Abeokuta, Osogbo, Sagamu, Ilara, Ondo, Ijebu Ode or Ekiti in Yorubaland. At no time during this prolonged series of studies did Dr. Bascom encounter a female Ifá priest or an informant who had heard of such a thing leading him to state unequivocally that “only men can be babalawos." [2] Sources from Yorubaland going back to the mid-19th century generally state that only men can become Ifá diviners, although it is true that the Reverend Samuel Johnson did say in "The History of the Yorubas" that in his day, the Ifá priests of imperial Oyo were led by the Iyalemole, the priestess of the Alaafin's personal oracle. [3] [4]
In the Ifá Literary Corpus that Awos use for confirmation in the odu EjiOgbe which documents that Orunmila initiated his firstborn daughter. [5] The arguments of Odu forbidding women are noted by the fact that Odu itself is feminine and means womb and her nature is to give birth. The odu is for men to become like a woman and have a womb. Women do not need an artificial womb because they were born with one. [6]
While Ode Remo now takes a posture of not initiating women, it demonstrates a history to the contrary as noted in "Women in the Yoruba Religion" [7] by Ode Remo author Oluwo Olotunji Somorin and other sources. [8]
A consensus among whom precisely? And I wouldn't sell myself short like that. Although, as far as sheer numbers go, the Lucumis are generally acknowledged as having a large majority. According to Wikipedia, in Nigeria the traditional practitioners make up only 1.4% of the population and the Ooni of Ife the spiritual capital of the Yoruba is a born again Christian, and the Alafin of Oyo is a Muslim. Of course in Latin America and in the United States, the vast majority are Lucumi although the neo-traditionlists are making some significant gains in the U.S. Despite this. the views of neo-traditionalists (such as I have to presume you must be) also have value. Lozen8 ( talk) 00:34, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I am going to have to revert this as, your assertions that "Odus are found throughout the Ifa Literary Corpus that speak of women being initiated into Ifa," and "odus such as Ogbe Irete speak of everyone having a right to know their destiny which is only found through initiation" are misleading at best. No one is contesting that women cannot be initiated or know their destiny. As all of us involved in the religion are aware, there are initiations both in the New World and Old World forms of the religion which reveal our destiny that don't involve being initiated as a diviner as such. The statement you removed is accurate as no one has been able to find even a single odu mentioning either a Iyalawo (a term appearing only in the last ten years or so) or a Iyanifa. The fact remains that almost all the Iyanifas and 'Iyalawos' are in the United States. Again while the numbers of neo-traditional/African Traditional Religion practitioners are certainly growing, again particularly in the U.S., the fact remains that the Diaspora practitioners still far outnumber them and the Yorubas who practice the traditional religions combined. It seems you are trying to use Wikipedia to create acceptance of your personal viewpoint and to give the (false) impression that Iyalawos are a common and generally accepted practice, either in Yorubaland or in the Diaspora (the New World). None of us know the changes that may occur to the various forms of the religion in the next twenty years or so, but I don't believe Wikipedia is necessarily the place to try to effect those changes artificially. The fact is that the Iyanifa and Iyalawo are new innovations which were unheard of in Yorubaland or the New World until the 1970s and which may or may not become widely accepted in the future, only time will tell. Also, web forums are not usually considered valid sources on Wikipedia. Lozen8 ( talk) 15:58, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The History of Iyalawo/ Iyanifas needs to be included. Wikipedia pages are intended to give valid resourced information. They are not intended to be a page for the counter opinion of the topic to be the predominant information and stand as factual. Iyanifas are accepted in the wider community.. just not Cuban Lucumi. That is biased information based on the views of one religion and not the entire Continent or diaspora. Cuba / Lucumi does not rule over all of Ifa or Traditional Ifa. They are not even the dominant practitioners worldwide. Ifa is practiced in Nigeria among the Igbo, Yoruba, Edo, in Benin, Togo, Ghana, and Senegal. Not to mention South America, Trinidad, Europe, and the United States and there are Iyanifas on all of those continents, countries, and Ethnic groups. Based on Traditional Ifa, Cuban Babalawos are not valid or recognized. So if we place this controversy here, it should also be allowed on Cuba is one small island and the Lucumi practitioners have clearly severed any association with Traditional Ifa as it is practiced else where due to their own declarations of separate history, protocol, priesthood titles, initiations, etc. I completely respect that and they have a right to do such. To that end, if Lucumi religion does not allow for Iyanifas, I have no problem with them having their own page and promoting the views of their religion or posting it on the Santaria Wiki page. However, It is completely out of line to believe they also have the right to comment on other religions such as traditional Ifa based on their world view. It is biased to allow another religious groups to sabotage or exclude the factual information documented by valid sources according to Wikipedia guidelines because they don't agree or it is not in their religion. If the information is intended to be unbiased, it either needs to exclude the controversy altogether and include the unbiased history. The history is based on Traditional Ifa, its Odu verse, and its writers, not Cuba or Lucumi interpretations. Or, if the controversy is positioned, then to limit its discussion to less than 2o% of the page and to allow for the counter discussion that refutes those statements. The article clearly indicates that undue weight is placed on the controversy and needs to be remedied.
References
Women have initiated into Ifa since before written history. The first known Iyanifa noted in history is Agbaye Arabinrin Oluwa, who lived about 200 AD in West Africa, Nigeria. [1] The first woman noted to be initiated in the Ifa Literary Corpus was Orunmila's ( the prophet of Ifa)initiating his daughter in the Ifa Verse Eji Ogbe. [2]. The verse is noted as follows: "The secret one of Jegbe' house Is Agbagiwo the chief priest of divination In the heavenly abode" Ifa said look at Orunmila on the day he was coming from Heaven to Earth. They told him he would marry a woman. They said the woman would deliver children. Two in a day. Just like Ifa predicted, Orunmila had a wife and she became pregnant. She delivered twins. One was male while the other one was female. From a tender age they both watched their father in the act of divination. Just as the male could divine, so could the female. When human beings got to the earth, They said, "You, Awonlaseri." Why doesnt your child practice Ifa? He said, because she is female. They said that is not taboo. So long as Orunmila' first born child who is female initiated into Ifa and offered ebo, from then on Women have initiated in Ifa [3]
The first woman in the west initiated into Ifa is noted in the Nigerian Newspaper, The Guardian where it reported that Dr. D'Haifa Odufora Ifatogun was initiated in 1985 by the chief priest of Osogbo, Ifayemi Elebuibon. [4] [5] Her initation caused a controversy because until then, only men had initated to Ifa in the West. The tradition was maintained in Cuba through the slave trade by a few Babalawos and when migrating to the United States, the assumption that women could not initiate continued. It was only when contact was made with the original tradition in Africa that it became known that women could initiate into Ifa as well. The position of Iyalawo is now found in both West Africa and in the Americas. Iyalawo ( talk) 22:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)Iyalawo
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).
[9]<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).References
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In the Americas and parts of Nigeria, such as Ode Remo and parts of Ijebuland, the position of the Iyalawo as a divining priestess of Ifá is contested on the grounds that in the Ifá Odus Ogunda Ka and Oshe Yekun, no one can become a full Awo Ifá without the presence of Orisha Odu, and in the Odu Ifá Irete Ntelu (Irete Ogbe), Odu herself says that she would only marry Orunmila if he promised not to permit women to be in the same room as her. These views appear to be suggested by books published in Nigeria as far back as the 19th century. For instance, the eminent Yoruba author James Johnson wrote in one of the most detailed early descriptions of Ifá that "Whenever this should be the case, a woman would receive from a Babalawo only one Ikin or Consecrated Palm nut called Eko, which she would carry about her body for her protection, and whenever divination should recommend and prescribe to her sacrifice to Ifa, she would, for the time being, hand over her Eko either to her husband or to her brother, or any other male relative according to prescription, who would include it in his own Ikins for the purpose of the worship and sacrifice in which she would participate." [1] William Bascom, the foremost academic authority on Ifá among the Yoruba up until the time of his death, conducted extensive field work Yorubaland in 1937-38, 1950–51, and as late as 1960 and 1965. This field work was conducted in a large number of areas of Yorubaland including the cities of Ife, Igana, Meko, Oyo, Ilesa, Abeokuta, Osogbo, Sagamu, Ilara, Ondo, Ijebu Ode or Ekiti in Yorubaland. At no time during this prolonged series of studies did Dr. Bascom encounter a female Ifá priest or an informant who had heard of such a thing leading him to state unequivocally that “only men can be babalawos." [2] Sources from Yorubaland going back to the mid-19th century generally state that only men can become Ifá diviners, although it is true that the Reverend Samuel Johnson did say in "The History of the Yorubas" that in his day, the Ifá priests of imperial Oyo were led by the Iyalemole, the priestess of the Alaafin's personal oracle. [3] [4]
In the Ifá Literary Corpus that Awos use for confirmation in the odu EjiOgbe which documents that Orunmila initiated his firstborn daughter. [5] The arguments of Odu forbidding women are noted by the fact that Odu itself is feminine and means womb and her nature is to give birth. The odu is for men to become like a woman and have a womb. Women do not need an artificial womb because they were born with one. [6]
While Ode Remo now takes a posture of not initiating women, it demonstrates a history to the contrary as noted in "Women in the Yoruba Religion" [7] by Ode Remo author Oluwo Olotunji Somorin and other sources. [8]
A consensus among whom precisely? And I wouldn't sell myself short like that. Although, as far as sheer numbers go, the Lucumis are generally acknowledged as having a large majority. According to Wikipedia, in Nigeria the traditional practitioners make up only 1.4% of the population and the Ooni of Ife the spiritual capital of the Yoruba is a born again Christian, and the Alafin of Oyo is a Muslim. Of course in Latin America and in the United States, the vast majority are Lucumi although the neo-traditionlists are making some significant gains in the U.S. Despite this. the views of neo-traditionalists (such as I have to presume you must be) also have value. Lozen8 ( talk) 00:34, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I am going to have to revert this as, your assertions that "Odus are found throughout the Ifa Literary Corpus that speak of women being initiated into Ifa," and "odus such as Ogbe Irete speak of everyone having a right to know their destiny which is only found through initiation" are misleading at best. No one is contesting that women cannot be initiated or know their destiny. As all of us involved in the religion are aware, there are initiations both in the New World and Old World forms of the religion which reveal our destiny that don't involve being initiated as a diviner as such. The statement you removed is accurate as no one has been able to find even a single odu mentioning either a Iyalawo (a term appearing only in the last ten years or so) or a Iyanifa. The fact remains that almost all the Iyanifas and 'Iyalawos' are in the United States. Again while the numbers of neo-traditional/African Traditional Religion practitioners are certainly growing, again particularly in the U.S., the fact remains that the Diaspora practitioners still far outnumber them and the Yorubas who practice the traditional religions combined. It seems you are trying to use Wikipedia to create acceptance of your personal viewpoint and to give the (false) impression that Iyalawos are a common and generally accepted practice, either in Yorubaland or in the Diaspora (the New World). None of us know the changes that may occur to the various forms of the religion in the next twenty years or so, but I don't believe Wikipedia is necessarily the place to try to effect those changes artificially. The fact is that the Iyanifa and Iyalawo are new innovations which were unheard of in Yorubaland or the New World until the 1970s and which may or may not become widely accepted in the future, only time will tell. Also, web forums are not usually considered valid sources on Wikipedia. Lozen8 ( talk) 15:58, 14 March 2015 (UTC)
The History of Iyalawo/ Iyanifas needs to be included. Wikipedia pages are intended to give valid resourced information. They are not intended to be a page for the counter opinion of the topic to be the predominant information and stand as factual. Iyanifas are accepted in the wider community.. just not Cuban Lucumi. That is biased information based on the views of one religion and not the entire Continent or diaspora. Cuba / Lucumi does not rule over all of Ifa or Traditional Ifa. They are not even the dominant practitioners worldwide. Ifa is practiced in Nigeria among the Igbo, Yoruba, Edo, in Benin, Togo, Ghana, and Senegal. Not to mention South America, Trinidad, Europe, and the United States and there are Iyanifas on all of those continents, countries, and Ethnic groups. Based on Traditional Ifa, Cuban Babalawos are not valid or recognized. So if we place this controversy here, it should also be allowed on Cuba is one small island and the Lucumi practitioners have clearly severed any association with Traditional Ifa as it is practiced else where due to their own declarations of separate history, protocol, priesthood titles, initiations, etc. I completely respect that and they have a right to do such. To that end, if Lucumi religion does not allow for Iyanifas, I have no problem with them having their own page and promoting the views of their religion or posting it on the Santaria Wiki page. However, It is completely out of line to believe they also have the right to comment on other religions such as traditional Ifa based on their world view. It is biased to allow another religious groups to sabotage or exclude the factual information documented by valid sources according to Wikipedia guidelines because they don't agree or it is not in their religion. If the information is intended to be unbiased, it either needs to exclude the controversy altogether and include the unbiased history. The history is based on Traditional Ifa, its Odu verse, and its writers, not Cuba or Lucumi interpretations. Or, if the controversy is positioned, then to limit its discussion to less than 2o% of the page and to allow for the counter discussion that refutes those statements. The article clearly indicates that undue weight is placed on the controversy and needs to be remedied.
References
Women have initiated into Ifa since before written history. The first known Iyanifa noted in history is Agbaye Arabinrin Oluwa, who lived about 200 AD in West Africa, Nigeria. [1] The first woman noted to be initiated in the Ifa Literary Corpus was Orunmila's ( the prophet of Ifa)initiating his daughter in the Ifa Verse Eji Ogbe. [2]. The verse is noted as follows: "The secret one of Jegbe' house Is Agbagiwo the chief priest of divination In the heavenly abode" Ifa said look at Orunmila on the day he was coming from Heaven to Earth. They told him he would marry a woman. They said the woman would deliver children. Two in a day. Just like Ifa predicted, Orunmila had a wife and she became pregnant. She delivered twins. One was male while the other one was female. From a tender age they both watched their father in the act of divination. Just as the male could divine, so could the female. When human beings got to the earth, They said, "You, Awonlaseri." Why doesnt your child practice Ifa? He said, because she is female. They said that is not taboo. So long as Orunmila' first born child who is female initiated into Ifa and offered ebo, from then on Women have initiated in Ifa [3]
The first woman in the west initiated into Ifa is noted in the Nigerian Newspaper, The Guardian where it reported that Dr. D'Haifa Odufora Ifatogun was initiated in 1985 by the chief priest of Osogbo, Ifayemi Elebuibon. [4] [5] Her initation caused a controversy because until then, only men had initated to Ifa in the West. The tradition was maintained in Cuba through the slave trade by a few Babalawos and when migrating to the United States, the assumption that women could not initiate continued. It was only when contact was made with the original tradition in Africa that it became known that women could initiate into Ifa as well. The position of Iyalawo is now found in both West Africa and in the Americas. Iyalawo ( talk) 22:59, 23 March 2015 (UTC)Iyalawo
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).
[9]<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).References
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