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![]() | Ivan Turgenev was the Wikisource Collaboration of the Week starting 27 October 2007. |
Turgenev is sufficiently affiliated with Germany that the German transliteration (Turgenjew) should be noted here. Lirath Q. Pynnor
I disagree. This is the English Wikipedia. The German translation belongs on the German Wikipedia. RickK 05:27, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Both Turgenev and Turgenjew are transliteration of Russian therefore only the English transliteration should be used here. Maximus Rex 05:28, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
English readers are interested in how his name is spelled, in its many variants. Lirath Q. Pynnor
No, they're not. Lir is trying to be disingenuous. See the controversy that he engendered over attempting to rename Christopher Columbus and subsequent attempts to name every place and person in Wikipedia by the name they are known in their native languages, instead of what they're known as in English. RickK 16:38, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I'm an English reader, Im interested. Maybe you aren't academic enough to be interested; but why do you want to suppress the information? Lirath Q. Pynnor
He lived in Germany for quite some time, I would expect that a great deal of writings refer to Turgenjew. Lirath Q. Pynnor
For Google searches in English:
"Ivan Turgenjew" 6
[1]
"Ivan Turgenev" 9,440
[2]
--
Maximus Rex 01:04, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
And what would be the harm in including such information? Lirath Q. Pynnor
I have no objection to indicating that this is the german spelling -- if I were looking for information on Turgenev, if I were seriously doing research, I would take the time to find out his German transliteration...so that I could find German documents. I would like to be able to use the wiki for such purposes; it is fine if we don't include the Swahili transliteration -- but since he lived in Germany, it would be useful. Lirath Q. Pynnor
Has the debate ended? Should we just delete off the superfluous German transliteration? Mandel 02:23, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)
"Turgenev is considered one of the great Victorian novelists" - I was under the impression that 'Victorian' was reserved only for Britain? Surely it would be more correct to state "19th Century novelist"? -- JDnCoke 16:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
His date of death is listed as 3 September and 4 September at different points in the article.
I'm trying to convert the windows-1251 to HTML unicode character codes. The wikipedia guide says that you can paste UTF-8 characters into the edit field and wikipedia will convert the utf-8 characters to HTML character codes. However, I cannot find any utilities to convert windows-1251 encoded text to UTF-8 encoded text. There are converters for all of the other cyrillic encodings but UTF-8 isn't supported by any that I've found.
燃
Let me urge people to add the Russian transciptions of the titles to their respective pages and not here. Mandel 20:25, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
I think this entry makes it clear why the 1911 Britannica should not be used for certain entries in Wikipedia. It's bigoted and hopelessly outdated; the language is antiquated, and in places, is just terrible. The critical assessment is no longer valid; and people keep adding pointless edits without getting to the crux of his works. Turgenev's mother is "narrow-minded and vindictive"; the 1911 Encylopedia praises A Nest of Nobles as "one of the saddest and at the same time truest pages in the whole range of existing novels." People simply switch Fathers and Sons for A Nest of Nobles. Some editing, eh? Mandel 03:54, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
I cleaned up the entry. There was much about Turgenev's background that was melodramatic ans presumptions about his freeing the serfs that were speculative and overstated. Since this was manifest and the tag applied nebulous I assume this was why it was applied. I removed it becau se of the clarifications I made. Iago Dali 18:05, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The Guinness books I have say his brain weighed 2,012 g (4 lb 6.97 oz) – not 2,021 g (4 lb 7.29 oz) as it is said here. Can someone check this up? My guess is that 4 lb 7 oz was converted to 2,012 g (actually closer to 2,013), but I havent seen the English language editions with his entry. Plus, the proper symbol for gram is g, not gm. -- Anshelm '77 21:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I did find some pages citing 4 lb 6.9 oz, like this one, though that converts to 2,010 g. -- Anshelm '77 21:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I personally thought the brain fact was just a bit awkward considering there is no reference to how much the average human brain weighs. I wasn't sure whether his brain was remarkably small or large so I looked it up here. 1,300 to 1,400 grams is the normal weight. Without this reference the fact seems strange and out of place in the article. This may be my opinion but perhaps a reference at least to it being a remarkably large brain or a reference to the average size of a brain should be made. --Christopher Nyberg 1:01, 11 April 2007 (EST)
How does Simone Lance's opinion contribute to the entry? Neither her work nor the arguments she "ruthlessly cuts aparts" are cited. Prose is bad also. Ok to cut this concluding paragraph from Turgenev's "Career" section? Cyrusc 16:38, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Please do, that was a NPOV no-no. 62.23.241.25 13:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Two of his early works:
Were included in the see also section. I moved them to the plays section as I've determined from some Russian references that they are short plays. Неосторожность would roughly translate, I guess, as something like "carelessness" or maybe "recklessness" and "Где тонко, там и рвется" would be literally "Where it is thin, it vomits" although I'm guessing the phrase is not meant to be taken literally. Anybody know a source for accepted translations? -- JayHenry 19:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Which of his plays or short stories is about Mumu the dog?
Hi, I read an essay about one of Turgenev's stories or plays involving a deaf and dumb peasant who finds a dog called Mumu. The fief, who is secretly based on Turgenev's own mother, first expects the dog to warm to her instantly and be as friendly to her as the peasant who looks after her, and then when she doesn't get what she wants flies into a rage, next she is woken up by the dog barking in the night and orders it to be destroyed. The peasant very sadly follows the order because his life depends on her, but he is never the same again because the dog was his only friend.
I thought the play or short story (not sure) was named after the dog, Mumu, but I don't see it in the list. Is it another one or does it go by another name?
Thanks, Kester Ratcliff. Bhikkhu Santi 07:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I've got a copy of short stories including Memoirs of a Superfluous Man, Asya, King Lear of the Steppes, First Love, The Song of Triumphant Love and Mumu. The ISBN is 0-19-282591-7, so these could probably be added. On another note, there's an 'Everyman' translation of The Nest of Gentlefolk which goes by the name Liza. In the introduction it is implied that this was the preferred name for the book whilst the former was a publisher's choice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.200.200 ( talk) 12:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Given Turgenev's popularization of the term nihilism (and his importance for the movement in Russia), should there not be a section relating to this? The character Bazarov in Fathers and Sons was greatly emulated by the students and nihilists in Russia. This books significance to the nihilist movement is mentioned in both the Fathers and Sons and Nihilism article. Should this be included in the 'Legacy' or the 'Career' section? Or a new section all together? Kbel32 ( talk) 16:21, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
according to Corballis, 1991, p. 66 Russian writer Ivan Turgenev had the record for the largest brain at 2012 gms. 76.120.17.197 ( talk) 20:23, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be 'A Lear of the Steppes'? That's what's on the cover of the 1912 edition I'm reading. It also returns more google searches than 'King...' 82.2.189.10 ( talk) 17:56, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Did anybody else understand this phrase, describing a recurrent theme in Turgenev's work? Wessexunderwater ( talk) 20:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
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The key passage reads: " Gogol is dead!... What Russian heart is not shaken by those three words?... He is gone, that man whom we now have the right (the bitter right, given to us by death) to call great." The censor of Saint Petersburg did not approve of this and banned publication, but the Moscow censor allowed it to be published in a newspaper in that city. The censor was dismissed; but Turgenev was held responsible for the incident, imprisoned for a month, and then exiled to his country estate for nearly two years.
Why was this considered so offensive? 2A02:A03F:E822:1B00:5142:DB7B:4FEF:EB84 ( talk) 11:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Ivan Turgenev was the Wikisource Collaboration of the Week starting 27 October 2007. |
Turgenev is sufficiently affiliated with Germany that the German transliteration (Turgenjew) should be noted here. Lirath Q. Pynnor
I disagree. This is the English Wikipedia. The German translation belongs on the German Wikipedia. RickK 05:27, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Both Turgenev and Turgenjew are transliteration of Russian therefore only the English transliteration should be used here. Maximus Rex 05:28, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
English readers are interested in how his name is spelled, in its many variants. Lirath Q. Pynnor
No, they're not. Lir is trying to be disingenuous. See the controversy that he engendered over attempting to rename Christopher Columbus and subsequent attempts to name every place and person in Wikipedia by the name they are known in their native languages, instead of what they're known as in English. RickK 16:38, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)
I'm an English reader, Im interested. Maybe you aren't academic enough to be interested; but why do you want to suppress the information? Lirath Q. Pynnor
He lived in Germany for quite some time, I would expect that a great deal of writings refer to Turgenjew. Lirath Q. Pynnor
For Google searches in English:
"Ivan Turgenjew" 6
[1]
"Ivan Turgenev" 9,440
[2]
--
Maximus Rex 01:04, 16 Nov 2003 (UTC)
And what would be the harm in including such information? Lirath Q. Pynnor
I have no objection to indicating that this is the german spelling -- if I were looking for information on Turgenev, if I were seriously doing research, I would take the time to find out his German transliteration...so that I could find German documents. I would like to be able to use the wiki for such purposes; it is fine if we don't include the Swahili transliteration -- but since he lived in Germany, it would be useful. Lirath Q. Pynnor
Has the debate ended? Should we just delete off the superfluous German transliteration? Mandel 02:23, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)
"Turgenev is considered one of the great Victorian novelists" - I was under the impression that 'Victorian' was reserved only for Britain? Surely it would be more correct to state "19th Century novelist"? -- JDnCoke 16:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
His date of death is listed as 3 September and 4 September at different points in the article.
I'm trying to convert the windows-1251 to HTML unicode character codes. The wikipedia guide says that you can paste UTF-8 characters into the edit field and wikipedia will convert the utf-8 characters to HTML character codes. However, I cannot find any utilities to convert windows-1251 encoded text to UTF-8 encoded text. There are converters for all of the other cyrillic encodings but UTF-8 isn't supported by any that I've found.
燃
Let me urge people to add the Russian transciptions of the titles to their respective pages and not here. Mandel 20:25, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
I think this entry makes it clear why the 1911 Britannica should not be used for certain entries in Wikipedia. It's bigoted and hopelessly outdated; the language is antiquated, and in places, is just terrible. The critical assessment is no longer valid; and people keep adding pointless edits without getting to the crux of his works. Turgenev's mother is "narrow-minded and vindictive"; the 1911 Encylopedia praises A Nest of Nobles as "one of the saddest and at the same time truest pages in the whole range of existing novels." People simply switch Fathers and Sons for A Nest of Nobles. Some editing, eh? Mandel 03:54, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
I cleaned up the entry. There was much about Turgenev's background that was melodramatic ans presumptions about his freeing the serfs that were speculative and overstated. Since this was manifest and the tag applied nebulous I assume this was why it was applied. I removed it becau se of the clarifications I made. Iago Dali 18:05, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The Guinness books I have say his brain weighed 2,012 g (4 lb 6.97 oz) – not 2,021 g (4 lb 7.29 oz) as it is said here. Can someone check this up? My guess is that 4 lb 7 oz was converted to 2,012 g (actually closer to 2,013), but I havent seen the English language editions with his entry. Plus, the proper symbol for gram is g, not gm. -- Anshelm '77 21:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, I did find some pages citing 4 lb 6.9 oz, like this one, though that converts to 2,010 g. -- Anshelm '77 21:19, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
I personally thought the brain fact was just a bit awkward considering there is no reference to how much the average human brain weighs. I wasn't sure whether his brain was remarkably small or large so I looked it up here. 1,300 to 1,400 grams is the normal weight. Without this reference the fact seems strange and out of place in the article. This may be my opinion but perhaps a reference at least to it being a remarkably large brain or a reference to the average size of a brain should be made. --Christopher Nyberg 1:01, 11 April 2007 (EST)
How does Simone Lance's opinion contribute to the entry? Neither her work nor the arguments she "ruthlessly cuts aparts" are cited. Prose is bad also. Ok to cut this concluding paragraph from Turgenev's "Career" section? Cyrusc 16:38, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Please do, that was a NPOV no-no. 62.23.241.25 13:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
Two of his early works:
Were included in the see also section. I moved them to the plays section as I've determined from some Russian references that they are short plays. Неосторожность would roughly translate, I guess, as something like "carelessness" or maybe "recklessness" and "Где тонко, там и рвется" would be literally "Where it is thin, it vomits" although I'm guessing the phrase is not meant to be taken literally. Anybody know a source for accepted translations? -- JayHenry 19:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Which of his plays or short stories is about Mumu the dog?
Hi, I read an essay about one of Turgenev's stories or plays involving a deaf and dumb peasant who finds a dog called Mumu. The fief, who is secretly based on Turgenev's own mother, first expects the dog to warm to her instantly and be as friendly to her as the peasant who looks after her, and then when she doesn't get what she wants flies into a rage, next she is woken up by the dog barking in the night and orders it to be destroyed. The peasant very sadly follows the order because his life depends on her, but he is never the same again because the dog was his only friend.
I thought the play or short story (not sure) was named after the dog, Mumu, but I don't see it in the list. Is it another one or does it go by another name?
Thanks, Kester Ratcliff. Bhikkhu Santi 07:33, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I've got a copy of short stories including Memoirs of a Superfluous Man, Asya, King Lear of the Steppes, First Love, The Song of Triumphant Love and Mumu. The ISBN is 0-19-282591-7, so these could probably be added. On another note, there's an 'Everyman' translation of The Nest of Gentlefolk which goes by the name Liza. In the introduction it is implied that this was the preferred name for the book whilst the former was a publisher's choice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.200.200 ( talk) 12:34, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Given Turgenev's popularization of the term nihilism (and his importance for the movement in Russia), should there not be a section relating to this? The character Bazarov in Fathers and Sons was greatly emulated by the students and nihilists in Russia. This books significance to the nihilist movement is mentioned in both the Fathers and Sons and Nihilism article. Should this be included in the 'Legacy' or the 'Career' section? Or a new section all together? Kbel32 ( talk) 16:21, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
according to Corballis, 1991, p. 66 Russian writer Ivan Turgenev had the record for the largest brain at 2012 gms. 76.120.17.197 ( talk) 20:23, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't that be 'A Lear of the Steppes'? That's what's on the cover of the 1912 edition I'm reading. It also returns more google searches than 'King...' 82.2.189.10 ( talk) 17:56, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
Did anybody else understand this phrase, describing a recurrent theme in Turgenev's work? Wessexunderwater ( talk) 20:37, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Ivan Turgenev. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:58, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
The key passage reads: " Gogol is dead!... What Russian heart is not shaken by those three words?... He is gone, that man whom we now have the right (the bitter right, given to us by death) to call great." The censor of Saint Petersburg did not approve of this and banned publication, but the Moscow censor allowed it to be published in a newspaper in that city. The censor was dismissed; but Turgenev was held responsible for the incident, imprisoned for a month, and then exiled to his country estate for nearly two years.
Why was this considered so offensive? 2A02:A03F:E822:1B00:5142:DB7B:4FEF:EB84 ( talk) 11:41, 12 March 2023 (UTC)