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"Italianate" is an adjective. What is the copyright status of the image? -- Wetman 13:34, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'm the photographer of all images on the Italianate page. As this was my first entry in WikiPedia, it took me a while to figure out how to get images properly tagged.
Italianate is more than just an adjective. A search on Google will bring up a kazillion web sites that discuss this topic in terms of Architecture. Such as: Italianate -- Piko 02:01, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)
Judging by "what links here", this page should be made a dab and the article should be moved to Italianate (architectural style) or something along these lines. In Russia-related contexts, the epithet is used to refer to structures which use Muscovite Renaissance elements brought to Russia by Aloisio, Fioravanti, Solari, etc. Any thoughts? -- Ghirla -трёп- 07:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
In its current form, the article smacks of original research. I want to repeat that "Italianate" should be reserved for a disambiguation. For instance, the entry on "Italianate" in Britannica, 15th ed. reads:
ITALIANATE, group of 17th-century northern European painters, principally Dutch, who traveled in Italy and, consciously adopting the style of landscape painting that they found there, incorporated Italian models and motifs into their own works. Chief among the Italianates were Bartholomeus Breenbergh, Andries and Jan Both, Nicolaes Berchem, and Jan Asselijn. The Both brothers, of Utrecht, were to some degree rivals of the Haarlem-born Berchem. Andries painted the figures that populated Jan's landscapes. Berchem's own compositions were largely derived from the Arcadian landscapes of the French painter Claude Lorrain; a typical scene would contain shepherds grazing their flocks among classical ruins, bathed in a golden haze. Upon his return to Holland, Berchem occasionally worked in cooperation with the local painters and is said to have supplied figures in works of both Jacob van Ruisdael and Meindert Hobbema. -- Ghirla -трёп- 19:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
"Italianate" is an adjective. Its use as a noun is jargon, which is intending to appear founded on usage like "the Baroque" or "the Rococo", but which is similar to "an equestrian" when signifying an " Equestrian sculpture" rather than the rider of a horse. "Italianate" is a blurred reference to "the Classical", in cases where the original models have been imperfectly understood by the architect, by his client and sometimes by the writer. Britannica 15th ed. is not a perfect model for Wikipedia. "Italianate", which simply means "classicizing" in some general sense, indistinguishably evokes "Roman" or "Classical" or "Neo-Palladian" or "Cinquecento Mannerist" or "Neo-Renaissance"; it could serve better as a disambiguation page:
etc. -- Wetman 23:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Jargon can be distinguished from terminology in that it is informal and essentially part of the oral culture of a profession, with only limited expression in the profession's publications.
It's okay Gman, the pix are not mine. I'll write more etc. but today my whatever is so slow [we have gerbels in cages running around wheels that make the internet work out here] that it's a hassle. Today they, the rodents, seemed to have some sort of a general strike going so it's taking a minute or two between links - - too long. Carptrash 14:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
I never got to see this building, which was torn down before I was born (1955) but was much-remembered by my parents and anybody else who had spent time in it. I added a bit on it to the Hotel Vancouver page, which is mostly about the current, third hotel, now a Fairmont and in the tradition of the Gothic railway hotels (the Frontenac, Laurier, Banff Springs, Lake Louise, Fort Garry, Empress, Royal York etc); the condition of its completion was that the second hotel be torn down (the new one didn't want the competition, which as you can see was formidable; especially the interior of the newer one is very drab by comparison). I've included pix of the interior to see if there's harmonization between exterior and interior, and would like the opinion of someone/people here as to if this is Italianate or not; I'd called it Italian Renaissance, which is the usual term for the style (at least it was in my cultural geography courses, anyway). The second hotel was by Francis Rattenbury (if that's a redlink, it's open turf to anyone interested in architectural history; yeah, there's an article, but now I'm not sure if the 2nd Hotel Van was his or not; have to check I guess; Rattenbury same designer as BC's Parliament Buildings and 1912 courthouse (now the Vancouver Art Gallery though I think in the UK he's a bit more famous for a society scandal/murder than anything else).
Italianate? Or am I wrong and it's Beaux-Arts or ??? I'd always called it Edwardian Pacific; the dining rooms/ballrooms were in different themes from around the Empire, there were echoes of Hong Kong and Bombay and Africa in the place, and gold-plated faucets and marble fittings in all the bathrooms....Italianate was fairly popular here, relatively speaking to Arts and Crafts and a tamer Queen Anne that's seen in the states; a famous example of an Italianate Renaissance house in Victoria is Emily Carr's old dig: http://www.emilycarr.com/main.html; despite those Gothic-flavoured finials or follies or whatever they are. Skookum1 03:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
hello —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.154.114.27 ( talk) 23:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
This page would be improved with an visual example of the so-called Italianate Victorian style famous in New England (and elsewhere) as a fairly common form architecture. With a prominent "widow's walk" above it's roof, many captain's homes were built thus. The article touches well upon this style. You say Italianate Victorian to any Yankee who knows a bit about architecture and this is what they'll think of. Some were very fancy, some more plain. If anyone has an image of this classic style of house, it would make a good addition.
That said, I agree that this page seems like a research paper put on on the Wikipedia. It presses its point too hard because quite simply "Italianate architecture" is too broad a subject heading to really organize around. The article on Neo-Renaissance architecture is much more germane, even if it does involve French Renaissance too. The Palazzo Vecchio certainly influenced a great deal of 19th C. American architecture, and in it's WP article it's called Tuscan Gothic. Sir Banister Fletcher makes the same distinction. Indeed, many of the buildings shown in this article reflect more of the Gothic influence of the Palazzo Vecchio and Giotto's campanile than Renaissance. Indeed, all of English Renaissance architecture would be Italianate. If the author means that the Italianate style is a distinct style because it has the Victorian concern with the symbolic weight of any feature (as perhaps referenced by the "picturesque" influence) as opposed to a truly Classical sense of balance and proportion, then this article would fit into Victorian architecture. Best, Francis —Preceding unsigned comment added by Francis Smith ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Is this church Italianate? Its description on the Wilton, Wiltshire page says it's Romanesque with Bzyantine influences. What's the difference between Romanesque and Italianate? 81.159.89.226 ( talk) 15:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Answer This church was begun in 1845. It's certainly a very convincing "Romanesque" building, but it is Romanesque revival. It could be called "Italianate" in a general sort of way, because it imitates an Italian Romanesque building rather than a British "Norman" one. But usually the term "Italianate" is used for buildings that imitate the Italian REnaissance rather than Italian Romanesque. It probaly has some Byzantine deatils because many genuine Italian Romanesque buildings do have Byzantine details. Italian Byzantine churches were richer in carving and ornate capitals and twisted columns.
Incidentally, very few Romanesque revival churches were built in England in the early 19th century. This church is a rarity. Churches were nearly always "Gothic revival". The architect may have visited Assisi. If you look at pics on Commons of Italian Romanesque churches, you will soon find which ones were the inspriation of this one. Amandajm ( talk) 15:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a generic article of top importance, rather than "high". Amandajm ( talk) 15:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not familiar enough with the other provinces to be able to write a Canada section, but Italianate's fairly common in British Columbia, with three notable high-profile examples I can think of, though one is demolished - the Second Hotel Vancouver (1916), the Emily Carr House in Victoriaand - I think it's Italianate - Hycroft Manor in Shaugnessy; maybe it's Neo-Classical but up close it seems ab it ornate for that; the view in the image is from the north; the rear entranche's port cochere and uphill windows seem clearly italianate, sorry I can't provide an image. Italianate's often seen integrated with Queen Anne elements in Vancouver and Victoria, and seems to have also been widely used in the British Columbia Interior in Edwardian times, though most examples are now vanished; the old Exhibition Buildings at Hastings Park, which had to be demolished in the '20s due to structural deficiencies, were an Italianate-California hybrid (Italianate with distinct Mexican characteristics, that is), and also had a glass conservatory roof London-Exhibition style (the roof was, i believe, the reason the building was unstable and had to be taken down - great shame, I'll see if I can find a pic). Italianate storefronts are numerous in Gastown, sorry I can't provide examples, I'm living in Halifax now...I see the occasional bit of Italianate here, mostly smaller frame buildings, I'll try to remember to take some pics if I see one... Skookum1 ( talk) 18:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The Italianate style is important and widespread in the U.S., but generally looks quite different from the Vanderbilt mansion given prominence in the article. That is so unlike the usual application in an upscale farmhouse, where it is most common, that I think the Vanderbilt photo should be removed in favor of a couple more regular examples. -- doncram ( talk) 19:42, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Carptrash ( talk) 14:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
The examples in the gallery don't seem to typify the style. Two of them are Victorian architecture with some Italianate features. I think we should sort out some better examples to include and weed out ambiguous or inaccurate examples. Candleabracadabra ( talk) 17:33, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
, Merchants Bank Building (commercial example). Anyway. Those are my thoughts. Happy New Year. Candleabracadabra ( talk) 23:04, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Italianate architecture article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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"Italianate" is an adjective. What is the copyright status of the image? -- Wetman 13:34, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I'm the photographer of all images on the Italianate page. As this was my first entry in WikiPedia, it took me a while to figure out how to get images properly tagged.
Italianate is more than just an adjective. A search on Google will bring up a kazillion web sites that discuss this topic in terms of Architecture. Such as: Italianate -- Piko 02:01, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)
Judging by "what links here", this page should be made a dab and the article should be moved to Italianate (architectural style) or something along these lines. In Russia-related contexts, the epithet is used to refer to structures which use Muscovite Renaissance elements brought to Russia by Aloisio, Fioravanti, Solari, etc. Any thoughts? -- Ghirla -трёп- 07:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
In its current form, the article smacks of original research. I want to repeat that "Italianate" should be reserved for a disambiguation. For instance, the entry on "Italianate" in Britannica, 15th ed. reads:
ITALIANATE, group of 17th-century northern European painters, principally Dutch, who traveled in Italy and, consciously adopting the style of landscape painting that they found there, incorporated Italian models and motifs into their own works. Chief among the Italianates were Bartholomeus Breenbergh, Andries and Jan Both, Nicolaes Berchem, and Jan Asselijn. The Both brothers, of Utrecht, were to some degree rivals of the Haarlem-born Berchem. Andries painted the figures that populated Jan's landscapes. Berchem's own compositions were largely derived from the Arcadian landscapes of the French painter Claude Lorrain; a typical scene would contain shepherds grazing their flocks among classical ruins, bathed in a golden haze. Upon his return to Holland, Berchem occasionally worked in cooperation with the local painters and is said to have supplied figures in works of both Jacob van Ruisdael and Meindert Hobbema. -- Ghirla -трёп- 19:09, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
"Italianate" is an adjective. Its use as a noun is jargon, which is intending to appear founded on usage like "the Baroque" or "the Rococo", but which is similar to "an equestrian" when signifying an " Equestrian sculpture" rather than the rider of a horse. "Italianate" is a blurred reference to "the Classical", in cases where the original models have been imperfectly understood by the architect, by his client and sometimes by the writer. Britannica 15th ed. is not a perfect model for Wikipedia. "Italianate", which simply means "classicizing" in some general sense, indistinguishably evokes "Roman" or "Classical" or "Neo-Palladian" or "Cinquecento Mannerist" or "Neo-Renaissance"; it could serve better as a disambiguation page:
etc. -- Wetman 23:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Jargon can be distinguished from terminology in that it is informal and essentially part of the oral culture of a profession, with only limited expression in the profession's publications.
It's okay Gman, the pix are not mine. I'll write more etc. but today my whatever is so slow [we have gerbels in cages running around wheels that make the internet work out here] that it's a hassle. Today they, the rodents, seemed to have some sort of a general strike going so it's taking a minute or two between links - - too long. Carptrash 14:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
I never got to see this building, which was torn down before I was born (1955) but was much-remembered by my parents and anybody else who had spent time in it. I added a bit on it to the Hotel Vancouver page, which is mostly about the current, third hotel, now a Fairmont and in the tradition of the Gothic railway hotels (the Frontenac, Laurier, Banff Springs, Lake Louise, Fort Garry, Empress, Royal York etc); the condition of its completion was that the second hotel be torn down (the new one didn't want the competition, which as you can see was formidable; especially the interior of the newer one is very drab by comparison). I've included pix of the interior to see if there's harmonization between exterior and interior, and would like the opinion of someone/people here as to if this is Italianate or not; I'd called it Italian Renaissance, which is the usual term for the style (at least it was in my cultural geography courses, anyway). The second hotel was by Francis Rattenbury (if that's a redlink, it's open turf to anyone interested in architectural history; yeah, there's an article, but now I'm not sure if the 2nd Hotel Van was his or not; have to check I guess; Rattenbury same designer as BC's Parliament Buildings and 1912 courthouse (now the Vancouver Art Gallery though I think in the UK he's a bit more famous for a society scandal/murder than anything else).
Italianate? Or am I wrong and it's Beaux-Arts or ??? I'd always called it Edwardian Pacific; the dining rooms/ballrooms were in different themes from around the Empire, there were echoes of Hong Kong and Bombay and Africa in the place, and gold-plated faucets and marble fittings in all the bathrooms....Italianate was fairly popular here, relatively speaking to Arts and Crafts and a tamer Queen Anne that's seen in the states; a famous example of an Italianate Renaissance house in Victoria is Emily Carr's old dig: http://www.emilycarr.com/main.html; despite those Gothic-flavoured finials or follies or whatever they are. Skookum1 03:09, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
hello —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.154.114.27 ( talk) 23:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
This page would be improved with an visual example of the so-called Italianate Victorian style famous in New England (and elsewhere) as a fairly common form architecture. With a prominent "widow's walk" above it's roof, many captain's homes were built thus. The article touches well upon this style. You say Italianate Victorian to any Yankee who knows a bit about architecture and this is what they'll think of. Some were very fancy, some more plain. If anyone has an image of this classic style of house, it would make a good addition.
That said, I agree that this page seems like a research paper put on on the Wikipedia. It presses its point too hard because quite simply "Italianate architecture" is too broad a subject heading to really organize around. The article on Neo-Renaissance architecture is much more germane, even if it does involve French Renaissance too. The Palazzo Vecchio certainly influenced a great deal of 19th C. American architecture, and in it's WP article it's called Tuscan Gothic. Sir Banister Fletcher makes the same distinction. Indeed, many of the buildings shown in this article reflect more of the Gothic influence of the Palazzo Vecchio and Giotto's campanile than Renaissance. Indeed, all of English Renaissance architecture would be Italianate. If the author means that the Italianate style is a distinct style because it has the Victorian concern with the symbolic weight of any feature (as perhaps referenced by the "picturesque" influence) as opposed to a truly Classical sense of balance and proportion, then this article would fit into Victorian architecture. Best, Francis —Preceding unsigned comment added by Francis Smith ( talk • contribs) 03:29, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Is this church Italianate? Its description on the Wilton, Wiltshire page says it's Romanesque with Bzyantine influences. What's the difference between Romanesque and Italianate? 81.159.89.226 ( talk) 15:09, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
Answer This church was begun in 1845. It's certainly a very convincing "Romanesque" building, but it is Romanesque revival. It could be called "Italianate" in a general sort of way, because it imitates an Italian Romanesque building rather than a British "Norman" one. But usually the term "Italianate" is used for buildings that imitate the Italian REnaissance rather than Italian Romanesque. It probaly has some Byzantine deatils because many genuine Italian Romanesque buildings do have Byzantine details. Italian Byzantine churches were richer in carving and ornate capitals and twisted columns.
Incidentally, very few Romanesque revival churches were built in England in the early 19th century. This church is a rarity. Churches were nearly always "Gothic revival". The architect may have visited Assisi. If you look at pics on Commons of Italian Romanesque churches, you will soon find which ones were the inspriation of this one. Amandajm ( talk) 15:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
This is a generic article of top importance, rather than "high". Amandajm ( talk) 15:30, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not familiar enough with the other provinces to be able to write a Canada section, but Italianate's fairly common in British Columbia, with three notable high-profile examples I can think of, though one is demolished - the Second Hotel Vancouver (1916), the Emily Carr House in Victoriaand - I think it's Italianate - Hycroft Manor in Shaugnessy; maybe it's Neo-Classical but up close it seems ab it ornate for that; the view in the image is from the north; the rear entranche's port cochere and uphill windows seem clearly italianate, sorry I can't provide an image. Italianate's often seen integrated with Queen Anne elements in Vancouver and Victoria, and seems to have also been widely used in the British Columbia Interior in Edwardian times, though most examples are now vanished; the old Exhibition Buildings at Hastings Park, which had to be demolished in the '20s due to structural deficiencies, were an Italianate-California hybrid (Italianate with distinct Mexican characteristics, that is), and also had a glass conservatory roof London-Exhibition style (the roof was, i believe, the reason the building was unstable and had to be taken down - great shame, I'll see if I can find a pic). Italianate storefronts are numerous in Gastown, sorry I can't provide examples, I'm living in Halifax now...I see the occasional bit of Italianate here, mostly smaller frame buildings, I'll try to remember to take some pics if I see one... Skookum1 ( talk) 18:01, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
The Italianate style is important and widespread in the U.S., but generally looks quite different from the Vanderbilt mansion given prominence in the article. That is so unlike the usual application in an upscale farmhouse, where it is most common, that I think the Vanderbilt photo should be removed in favor of a couple more regular examples. -- doncram ( talk) 19:42, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Carptrash ( talk) 14:44, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
The examples in the gallery don't seem to typify the style. Two of them are Victorian architecture with some Italianate features. I think we should sort out some better examples to include and weed out ambiguous or inaccurate examples. Candleabracadabra ( talk) 17:33, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
, Merchants Bank Building (commercial example). Anyway. Those are my thoughts. Happy New Year. Candleabracadabra ( talk) 23:04, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
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