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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The PdCI was enlarged and transformed in 2014 to become the new PCd'I in 2014, the new PCd'I was enlarged and transformed to become the new PCI in 2016. I strongly oppose the merger of the three articles for the reasons explained at
Talk:Communist Party of Italy (2014). In a nutshell, I think there should be an article named "Party of Italian Communists": it would be quite awkward for users to find the account of the PdCI's history in an article with a different and more obscure name such as "Italian Communist Party (1998)". The party was represented in Parliament as PdCI. --
Checco (
talk)
18:34, 23 December 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Checco These are cases in which the parties dissolve and form new ones, such as PdCI/pCdI and the new PCI. The thing you do not understand is a party can even just change its name. In 2014 the PdCI only changed its name, the statute and the offices remained unchanged. Yet you should know that it is not enough to change the name to dissolve a party.... --
Wololoo (
talk)
21:59, 19 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The three cases I mentioned are just identical: in all three cases the parties were primarily re-named. A name change is more notable than obscure changes in a party constitution and, for the sake of users, it is better to have separate articles. --
Checco (
talk)
22:05, 19 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
Checco I don't know precisely about UMP/Républicains (which, however, has a decidedly different scope from the case in question), AP is actually the new name of NCD (the statute is the same), in this case the two-page separation could be justified by the definitive change of political location of this party (from the centre-right to the centre/centre-left) but a single page would not be wrong anyway. PdL and Forza Italia are absolutely two different parties (the new FI is rather a refoundation of the 1994 party). In this case the importance of the party is minimal, the sources and the facts say that they are the same party, and above all the page of PCd'I does not add anything compared to that of the PdCI (only 7 lines that explain that the party was renamed): where is the sake of users? Honestly I don't see it...
There is both continuity and change in the history of PdCI, PCd'I (2014) and PCI (2016).
I am glad that we now agree that the PCI (2016) is a new party. My argument is that the transition from the PdCI to the PCd'I (2014) is identical to that of the PCd'I (2014) to the PCI (2016). In both cases, splinters from the PRC joined the new party, for instance.
I thus oppose the merger of the PCd'I (2014) article with the PdCI article. Not only it would be wrong, but it would also be confusing for readers.
The PdCI lasted from 1998 to 2014 (16 years) and has broad name recognition: if ever the merger that I oppose were to take place, my suggestion would to merge PCd'I (2014) into the PdCI. In that scenario, we would at list acknowledge that the party was mostly known as PdCI and that, at the end of its history, it was re-named PCd'I (2014). Let me be clear: that would be a compromise based on the false assumption that it was just a re-naming issue.
Checco: The PCI (2016) is surely a new party, about PdCI and PCdI we can discuss whether to have one or two pages, but the transition from the PdCI to the PCd'I (2014) it is certainly not identical to that of the PCd'I (2014) to the PCI (2016). The PdCI in 2014 was only renamed, this is demonstrated by the facts, also the statute was the same. Obviously, in case of merge, the name should be "Party of the Italian Communists". However, also if the two pages remain separated, it is not a great problem, after all
Italian Communist Party and
Communist Party of Italy were the same party but they have separated pages, also if I don't really agree with this type of solution (in my view, a party should have only one page).--
Wololoo (
talk)
22:01, 28 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly articles
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The PdCI was enlarged and transformed in 2014 to become the new PCd'I in 2014, the new PCd'I was enlarged and transformed to become the new PCI in 2016. I strongly oppose the merger of the three articles for the reasons explained at
Talk:Communist Party of Italy (2014). In a nutshell, I think there should be an article named "Party of Italian Communists": it would be quite awkward for users to find the account of the PdCI's history in an article with a different and more obscure name such as "Italian Communist Party (1998)". The party was represented in Parliament as PdCI. --
Checco (
talk)
18:34, 23 December 2017 (UTC)reply
@
Checco These are cases in which the parties dissolve and form new ones, such as PdCI/pCdI and the new PCI. The thing you do not understand is a party can even just change its name. In 2014 the PdCI only changed its name, the statute and the offices remained unchanged. Yet you should know that it is not enough to change the name to dissolve a party.... --
Wololoo (
talk)
21:59, 19 March 2018 (UTC)reply
The three cases I mentioned are just identical: in all three cases the parties were primarily re-named. A name change is more notable than obscure changes in a party constitution and, for the sake of users, it is better to have separate articles. --
Checco (
talk)
22:05, 19 March 2018 (UTC)reply
@
Checco I don't know precisely about UMP/Républicains (which, however, has a decidedly different scope from the case in question), AP is actually the new name of NCD (the statute is the same), in this case the two-page separation could be justified by the definitive change of political location of this party (from the centre-right to the centre/centre-left) but a single page would not be wrong anyway. PdL and Forza Italia are absolutely two different parties (the new FI is rather a refoundation of the 1994 party). In this case the importance of the party is minimal, the sources and the facts say that they are the same party, and above all the page of PCd'I does not add anything compared to that of the PdCI (only 7 lines that explain that the party was renamed): where is the sake of users? Honestly I don't see it...
There is both continuity and change in the history of PdCI, PCd'I (2014) and PCI (2016).
I am glad that we now agree that the PCI (2016) is a new party. My argument is that the transition from the PdCI to the PCd'I (2014) is identical to that of the PCd'I (2014) to the PCI (2016). In both cases, splinters from the PRC joined the new party, for instance.
I thus oppose the merger of the PCd'I (2014) article with the PdCI article. Not only it would be wrong, but it would also be confusing for readers.
The PdCI lasted from 1998 to 2014 (16 years) and has broad name recognition: if ever the merger that I oppose were to take place, my suggestion would to merge PCd'I (2014) into the PdCI. In that scenario, we would at list acknowledge that the party was mostly known as PdCI and that, at the end of its history, it was re-named PCd'I (2014). Let me be clear: that would be a compromise based on the false assumption that it was just a re-naming issue.
Checco: The PCI (2016) is surely a new party, about PdCI and PCdI we can discuss whether to have one or two pages, but the transition from the PdCI to the PCd'I (2014) it is certainly not identical to that of the PCd'I (2014) to the PCI (2016). The PdCI in 2014 was only renamed, this is demonstrated by the facts, also the statute was the same. Obviously, in case of merge, the name should be "Party of the Italian Communists". However, also if the two pages remain separated, it is not a great problem, after all
Italian Communist Party and
Communist Party of Italy were the same party but they have separated pages, also if I don't really agree with this type of solution (in my view, a party should have only one page).--
Wololoo (
talk)
22:01, 28 March 2019 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.