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Shouldn't the article be titled 'Italian Army' instead of 'Italian army'?
The infantry brigades AOSTA and PINEROLO have already been deployed abroad, especially in the Balkan area. The issue of "national presence & surveillance" is outdated, because both brigades have "phased out" their last conscripts in 2005. Both brigades are in a process of increasing their capabilities, bringing them to the standarts of the other brigades. PINEROLO will be a fully deployable mechanised brigade, while AOSTA will receive Centauro VBC APCs and convert to a deployable "medium brigade" (wheeled). Regarding the GdS, it has already been decided that this brigade will be reduced in some way and act as a reserve unit.
Is it possible someone make a subsection/new article on Regio Esercito in interwar period and WW2? I have noticed some direct links to this page in articles on the spanish civil war. Fluffy999 14:50, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
There is no 182nd Slovenian Battalion! These are the units, that compromise the Slovenian Army:
As you can see there today is no 182nd Btn- there was once a 182nd Btn., but that unit was renamed "20th Motorized Battalion" on December 20th, 2002. But today the Slovenian 10th Motorized Battalion is the one that is working with Julia. As for Hungary- the unit's name in Hungarian is "1. Lövészzászlóalja" which in English is "1. Light Infantry", so the data on the homepage of the esercito is wrong and outdated. -- noclador 18:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Is there no page dedicated to the Italian Army in ww2? Especially in terms of organization, etc. 68.211.186.21 06:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Added History page-- 209.213.220.227 ( talk) 17:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
And lotsa internal links-- 209.213.220.227 ( talk) 17:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
What is the best unit in Italy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.226.40 ( talk) 02:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank God History-- 71.185.193.245 ( talk) 00:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
The Italian Army in general had a poor reputation--perhaps undeservedly on many occasions (Folgore & Ariete in North Africa for ex.)--but this article seems to be far too strident and biased in defending it in the other direction. It seems to be reliant on one book "Iron Hearts, Iron Hull" which runs counter to a majority of first person, official and scholarly accounts written and whose author makes a point of arguing for Italian bravery. I'm anything but anti-Italian--my grandfather and uncle were Italian POWs of the Brits--it's that it shouldn't be used as the sole source, especially when on it counters the majority of reports and military histories. I think that's suspect I think and not of encyclopedic quality. Virgil61 ( talk) 05:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
It is sad to see even Italians with a military background duped by the official war histories of the Australian, British and New Zealander forces. In the official war histories of the Commonwealth Forces, it is not always possible to determine whether 'the enemy' referred to was German or actually Italian. This is in great part because Italian and German soldiers, armoured vehicles and aircrafts employed in the North African campaign, were often difficult to distinguish in the heat of battle.
However, the lack of credit probably derives more from racism, and an unwilligness to acknowledge reverses against Italians. Reticence is apparent in the Australian account of the actions on 1 and 16 May 1941, when the Australians lost several platoon positions (R3, R4, R5, R6 and R7) in a successful operation by part of the Italians. Australian official historian Barton Maughan wrote soon after the war that "Germans" were the enemy involved in the action, in which eight concrete strongpoints were captured. However,Italian records indicate that Italians of the 32nd Combat Sappers and Brescia Division were responsible [1]. An unwillingness to accept the truth is also apparent in the official Australian account of the action of 17 July 1942, when the 2/32nd Battalion lost 200 men as prisoners in a successful Italian counterattack. Although the Australian official history of 2/32nd Battalion describes the counterattack force as "German" [2], a recent historian of that campaign reports that soldiers of the Trento Division were responsible [3]. Similarly, The New Zealand Official History mentions the capture of 1000 wounded combatants on 28 November 1941 and implies that they were captured by "Germans [4]" However, Italian records indicate that troops of the Bersaglieri were responsible [5]. Of the Ruweisat Ridge Battle The New Zealand Official History recorded: In the accounts of the battle for Ruweisat Ridge, it is the two lightly armed reconnaissance units who are credited with holding off a whole British armoured corps during the day and with initiating the successful counter-attack [6]. However, Major Paolo Caccia-Dominioni, an Italian paratrooper writing about the first Italian advance at Alamein said these positions were held in the main part by Colonel Gherardo Vaiarini's 65th "Trieste" Regiment and Colonel Umberto Zanetti's 66th "Trieste" Regiment both of whom were killed valiantly at the head of their men. (Alamein 1933-1962: An Italian Story, p. 83) Historian Maughan also ridiculed the elite Bersaglieri but it was the 7th Bersaglieri Regiment that stormed and forced the capture of 6,000 [7]British soldiers during the Battle of Mersa Matruh on 26 June 1942, naturally, he makes no mention of this Italian success. And it was the 8th Bersaglieri Regiment [8]that obtained Rommel's first real victory in North Africa when two battalions outfought and captured 2,700 British, Indian and Australian troops [9]fleeing from the fortress of Mechili on 8 April 1941, but unsurprisingly, no mention of this Italian victory is mentioned in the Australian, British and New Zealander war annals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RadioBerlin ( talk • contribs) 05:27, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Are you an ex-second lieutenant?, you sound very young and naive although very energetic. Maybe you are the great-grandson of a famous partisan? But then again you may mean no harm. It is quite obvious you haven't read Maggiore Paolo Dominioni-Caccia's Alamein:An Italian Story for anybody in the know, knows quite well that it was the Germans that first had a go at taking Mersa Matruh, and after a brave attempt in which they captured around 1,000-1,500 enemy soldiers, they ran out of steam. This is when Colonel Scirocco's 7th Bersaglieri Regiment stepped in, and to their credit succeeded in taking 6,500 prisoners. (Source: Paolo Caccia-Dominioni, Alamein 1933-1962: An Italian Story, p. 37) It surprises me though, that as a person from supposedly a proud Italian military background you regard The Battle Of The Salient from 30 April-1 May 1941 at Tobruk as a depressing minor affair. Maybe you are just like the rest of the crowd--including me at one point-- under the illusion it was an exclusive German-affair, with crack 6-foot German Afrika Korps stromp-troopers storming and seizing the R3, R4, R5, R6 and R7 concrete strongpoints from the tough Australians. I bet you believe like the majority of us that it was the Germans that took these posts? Well my friend, you are wrong;it was the simple soldiers of the Brescia Division that took these outposts. I nevertheless thank you for your comments regarding the book Australian historian Mark Johnston wrote that I have made you aware of. It's a pity though that as an Italian you haven't acknowledged that Australian Historian Barton Maughan has overlooked and dismissed the achievements of the ordinary soldier of the Brescia Infantry and Trento Infantry Division and the crack Bersaglieri in the Australian Official History. It won't escape many people's attention either, the fact you haven't provided any feedback whatsoever regarding the achievement of the elite 8th Bersaglieri Regiment at Mechili, maybe you think its a figment of my imagination? And how come you haven't commented on the outstanding role of Colonel Gherardo Vaiarini's 65th and Colonel Umberto Zanetti's 66th Regiments of the "Trieste" Division, made up almost entirely of conscripts? Er—Preceding unsigned comment added by Generalmesse ( talk • contribs) 11:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
As I explained it to User:Piccolo Modificatore Laborioso on his talkpage and as I explained it to User:BillCJ on his talkpage - I will explain it to you others too who come here delete without knowing what you do: to delete the entire OrBat of an Army, which is one of the most essential parts in every article about an active army and declaring an Active component registry by corpses as its equivalent is a) wrong b) annoying for those who do all the work on military topics and c) in my eye vandalism, as it destroys a good article. If some of you would have looked at what you delete and what you claim is the same, you would have seen that the two are fundamentally different in their structure and the information they give: an OrBat shows the combat structure and the chain of command of an Army - the Active component registry by corpses shows the historic allegiances of the units of an Army, as well as the Army's organization for administrative purposes! Following your logic it would be ok to delete a list with the members of the Obama cabinet, because there is already a list with the names of the various US government departments. I guess you wouldn't do that - therefore I ask you to cease your deletion crusade immediately. -- noclador ( talk) 14:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I have changed the number of the main battle tank: 120 Leopard A4 ( ex Garibaldi mechanised Brigade, scrapped out in 2008 from active service, and now in reserve); the "Centauro" are now 300, the first batch was phased outo from 2006 to 2008; and the freccia is entering now in service ( 49, to be delivered from now to 2011; the ather 200 are planned to enter in service only if they will be financed ). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.210.29.103 ( talk) 06:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Italian president F. Cossiga declared that in italian basis there are also nukes built in France and UK and not only in Usa.(Rai news) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.60.119.206 ( talk) 18:56, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
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Time to move equipment section to a new article? Getting a little long. Antiochus the Great ( talk) 17:29, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
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My name is ugbo Kevin from Nigeria Africa live in Italia I love to Italian army 37.159.69.182 ( talk) 11:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
This is the
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Italian Army article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Shouldn't the article be titled 'Italian Army' instead of 'Italian army'?
The infantry brigades AOSTA and PINEROLO have already been deployed abroad, especially in the Balkan area. The issue of "national presence & surveillance" is outdated, because both brigades have "phased out" their last conscripts in 2005. Both brigades are in a process of increasing their capabilities, bringing them to the standarts of the other brigades. PINEROLO will be a fully deployable mechanised brigade, while AOSTA will receive Centauro VBC APCs and convert to a deployable "medium brigade" (wheeled). Regarding the GdS, it has already been decided that this brigade will be reduced in some way and act as a reserve unit.
Is it possible someone make a subsection/new article on Regio Esercito in interwar period and WW2? I have noticed some direct links to this page in articles on the spanish civil war. Fluffy999 14:50, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
There is no 182nd Slovenian Battalion! These are the units, that compromise the Slovenian Army:
As you can see there today is no 182nd Btn- there was once a 182nd Btn., but that unit was renamed "20th Motorized Battalion" on December 20th, 2002. But today the Slovenian 10th Motorized Battalion is the one that is working with Julia. As for Hungary- the unit's name in Hungarian is "1. Lövészzászlóalja" which in English is "1. Light Infantry", so the data on the homepage of the esercito is wrong and outdated. -- noclador 18:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Is there no page dedicated to the Italian Army in ww2? Especially in terms of organization, etc. 68.211.186.21 06:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Added History page-- 209.213.220.227 ( talk) 17:23, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
And lotsa internal links-- 209.213.220.227 ( talk) 17:24, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
What is the best unit in Italy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.226.40 ( talk) 02:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank God History-- 71.185.193.245 ( talk) 00:30, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
The Italian Army in general had a poor reputation--perhaps undeservedly on many occasions (Folgore & Ariete in North Africa for ex.)--but this article seems to be far too strident and biased in defending it in the other direction. It seems to be reliant on one book "Iron Hearts, Iron Hull" which runs counter to a majority of first person, official and scholarly accounts written and whose author makes a point of arguing for Italian bravery. I'm anything but anti-Italian--my grandfather and uncle were Italian POWs of the Brits--it's that it shouldn't be used as the sole source, especially when on it counters the majority of reports and military histories. I think that's suspect I think and not of encyclopedic quality. Virgil61 ( talk) 05:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
It is sad to see even Italians with a military background duped by the official war histories of the Australian, British and New Zealander forces. In the official war histories of the Commonwealth Forces, it is not always possible to determine whether 'the enemy' referred to was German or actually Italian. This is in great part because Italian and German soldiers, armoured vehicles and aircrafts employed in the North African campaign, were often difficult to distinguish in the heat of battle.
However, the lack of credit probably derives more from racism, and an unwilligness to acknowledge reverses against Italians. Reticence is apparent in the Australian account of the actions on 1 and 16 May 1941, when the Australians lost several platoon positions (R3, R4, R5, R6 and R7) in a successful operation by part of the Italians. Australian official historian Barton Maughan wrote soon after the war that "Germans" were the enemy involved in the action, in which eight concrete strongpoints were captured. However,Italian records indicate that Italians of the 32nd Combat Sappers and Brescia Division were responsible [1]. An unwillingness to accept the truth is also apparent in the official Australian account of the action of 17 July 1942, when the 2/32nd Battalion lost 200 men as prisoners in a successful Italian counterattack. Although the Australian official history of 2/32nd Battalion describes the counterattack force as "German" [2], a recent historian of that campaign reports that soldiers of the Trento Division were responsible [3]. Similarly, The New Zealand Official History mentions the capture of 1000 wounded combatants on 28 November 1941 and implies that they were captured by "Germans [4]" However, Italian records indicate that troops of the Bersaglieri were responsible [5]. Of the Ruweisat Ridge Battle The New Zealand Official History recorded: In the accounts of the battle for Ruweisat Ridge, it is the two lightly armed reconnaissance units who are credited with holding off a whole British armoured corps during the day and with initiating the successful counter-attack [6]. However, Major Paolo Caccia-Dominioni, an Italian paratrooper writing about the first Italian advance at Alamein said these positions were held in the main part by Colonel Gherardo Vaiarini's 65th "Trieste" Regiment and Colonel Umberto Zanetti's 66th "Trieste" Regiment both of whom were killed valiantly at the head of their men. (Alamein 1933-1962: An Italian Story, p. 83) Historian Maughan also ridiculed the elite Bersaglieri but it was the 7th Bersaglieri Regiment that stormed and forced the capture of 6,000 [7]British soldiers during the Battle of Mersa Matruh on 26 June 1942, naturally, he makes no mention of this Italian success. And it was the 8th Bersaglieri Regiment [8]that obtained Rommel's first real victory in North Africa when two battalions outfought and captured 2,700 British, Indian and Australian troops [9]fleeing from the fortress of Mechili on 8 April 1941, but unsurprisingly, no mention of this Italian victory is mentioned in the Australian, British and New Zealander war annals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RadioBerlin ( talk • contribs) 05:27, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
Are you an ex-second lieutenant?, you sound very young and naive although very energetic. Maybe you are the great-grandson of a famous partisan? But then again you may mean no harm. It is quite obvious you haven't read Maggiore Paolo Dominioni-Caccia's Alamein:An Italian Story for anybody in the know, knows quite well that it was the Germans that first had a go at taking Mersa Matruh, and after a brave attempt in which they captured around 1,000-1,500 enemy soldiers, they ran out of steam. This is when Colonel Scirocco's 7th Bersaglieri Regiment stepped in, and to their credit succeeded in taking 6,500 prisoners. (Source: Paolo Caccia-Dominioni, Alamein 1933-1962: An Italian Story, p. 37) It surprises me though, that as a person from supposedly a proud Italian military background you regard The Battle Of The Salient from 30 April-1 May 1941 at Tobruk as a depressing minor affair. Maybe you are just like the rest of the crowd--including me at one point-- under the illusion it was an exclusive German-affair, with crack 6-foot German Afrika Korps stromp-troopers storming and seizing the R3, R4, R5, R6 and R7 concrete strongpoints from the tough Australians. I bet you believe like the majority of us that it was the Germans that took these posts? Well my friend, you are wrong;it was the simple soldiers of the Brescia Division that took these outposts. I nevertheless thank you for your comments regarding the book Australian historian Mark Johnston wrote that I have made you aware of. It's a pity though that as an Italian you haven't acknowledged that Australian Historian Barton Maughan has overlooked and dismissed the achievements of the ordinary soldier of the Brescia Infantry and Trento Infantry Division and the crack Bersaglieri in the Australian Official History. It won't escape many people's attention either, the fact you haven't provided any feedback whatsoever regarding the achievement of the elite 8th Bersaglieri Regiment at Mechili, maybe you think its a figment of my imagination? And how come you haven't commented on the outstanding role of Colonel Gherardo Vaiarini's 65th and Colonel Umberto Zanetti's 66th Regiments of the "Trieste" Division, made up almost entirely of conscripts? Er—Preceding unsigned comment added by Generalmesse ( talk • contribs) 11:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
As I explained it to User:Piccolo Modificatore Laborioso on his talkpage and as I explained it to User:BillCJ on his talkpage - I will explain it to you others too who come here delete without knowing what you do: to delete the entire OrBat of an Army, which is one of the most essential parts in every article about an active army and declaring an Active component registry by corpses as its equivalent is a) wrong b) annoying for those who do all the work on military topics and c) in my eye vandalism, as it destroys a good article. If some of you would have looked at what you delete and what you claim is the same, you would have seen that the two are fundamentally different in their structure and the information they give: an OrBat shows the combat structure and the chain of command of an Army - the Active component registry by corpses shows the historic allegiances of the units of an Army, as well as the Army's organization for administrative purposes! Following your logic it would be ok to delete a list with the members of the Obama cabinet, because there is already a list with the names of the various US government departments. I guess you wouldn't do that - therefore I ask you to cease your deletion crusade immediately. -- noclador ( talk) 14:05, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I have changed the number of the main battle tank: 120 Leopard A4 ( ex Garibaldi mechanised Brigade, scrapped out in 2008 from active service, and now in reserve); the "Centauro" are now 300, the first batch was phased outo from 2006 to 2008; and the freccia is entering now in service ( 49, to be delivered from now to 2011; the ather 200 are planned to enter in service only if they will be financed ). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.210.29.103 ( talk) 06:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Italian president F. Cossiga declared that in italian basis there are also nukes built in France and UK and not only in Usa.(Rai news) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.60.119.206 ( talk) 18:56, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Lancieri di Aosta Training.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests September 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 12:33, 6 September 2011 (UTC) |
Units not in the map:
Time to move equipment section to a new article? Getting a little long. Antiochus the Great ( talk) 17:29, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Italian Army. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:30, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
My name is ugbo Kevin from Nigeria Africa live in Italia I love to Italian army 37.159.69.182 ( talk) 11:35, 30 January 2022 (UTC)