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The result of the move request was: Moved. Editors recognised that there was more than one time when Israel invaded the Gaza Strip, and that those times were significant. The consensus view was that the invasion which began in October 2023 was the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Particularly in relation to the invasion during the Six-Day War, several editors argued that the 1967 event would not be commonly sought by the term "Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip", and exercised their judgement of primary topic accordingly. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Adumbrativus ( talk) 04:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
鈥 Just like we don't have a date on Israel-Hamas war, as that is by far the most significant of the wars between Israel and Hamas, the current invasion of Gaza Strip is by far the most significant of the invasions of Gaza Strip. It is the longest in duration, most extensive in damage, the highest in casualties and received the most international attention. VR (Please ping on reply) 18:54, 31 May 2024 (UTC) 鈥斅Relisting.聽聽鈥斅 Amakuru ( talk) 07:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
the events that occurred in Gaza since them have all sprung from that.I don't think that's the case. The current events, a de facto leveling of Gaza arise by virtue of Hamas involvement in Gaza and all of the subsequent Israel Gaza wars. For that matter, the 67 war is not the only invasion, there was 48 and the Suez crisis and the unsourced cherry picking of the ptopic is merely an assertion on your part. Selfstudier ( talk) 10:40, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
My point is while your argument is based on WP:PT2, we can't ignore WP:PT1, which is whether this title is "the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." While "Invasion of Gaza Strip" to describe the 1967 war is technically correct, RS don't use that term that way. At best RS might use "Israeli invasion of Gaza and Sinai", but more likely they would use the word "Front" as opposed to "Invasion", and most simply use "1967 war" or "Six day war". Consider other recent examples:
Term | Target that a user is likely looking for (PT1) | Target that technically fits the definition and is more historically significant (PT2) | Explanation for PT2 |
---|---|---|---|
" Invasion of Cyprus", "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" | Turkish Invasion of Cyprus | Ottoman鈥揤enetian War (1570鈥1573) | The 1570 conquest by Turks took the entire island (not just the north) and endured for several centuries. |
"Russian invasion of Ukraine" | Russian invasion of Ukraine | Russo-Polish War (1654鈥1667) | the 17th century one actually brought Kyiv under Russian control (which didn't happen in 2022) and endured for centuries |
" Invasion of Kuwait" | Iraqi invasion of Kuwait | Battle of Chains (633) | The 633 Arab-Islamic invasion resulted it in becoming predominantly Arab and Islamic. By contrast the 1991 invasion was defeated quickly. |
In each of these cases, PT1 dominates mainly because few would use the given term to describe the more historically significant PT2 target. VR (Please ping on reply) 16:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Sometimes airstrikes happen in advance of boots on the ground. Other times, boots on the ground and airstrikes start at the same time. In this case, airstrikes started before the incursions. This is similar to United States invasion of Afghanistan, when airstrikes started on Oct 7 (strange coincidence) but incursions didn't start until Oct 19. But that article still starts from the initial airstrikes and this article should do the same. It was obvious from the initial airstrikes that they were made with an intent to invade (eg see this Times of Israel article from Oct 8). VR (Please ping on reply) 04:00, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
There are other reasons to consider the start date Oct 7, not Oct 27. The sources make the Oct 7 distinction, but not the Oct 27 distinction:
![]() | This
edit request to
Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip (2023鈥損resent) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
change starting date from 7 October 2023 to 27 October 2023 as the article said a few weeks ago as the Israel hamas war started october 7 but this proper invasion started 27 October 2023 173.72.3.91 ( talk) 16:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
@ Kashmiri, you're an experienced editor, was wondering, now that there is strong support for Al Jazeera's reliability to be changed from "reliable" to "no consensus" at the WP:RSN are you still sure that Al Jazeera is an appropriate source for something like this? 鈥斅 48 JCL 17:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
now that there is strong support for Al Jazeera's reliability to be changed from "reliable" to "no consensus"No such consensus. Selfstudier ( talk) 14:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
The IDF and the Shin Bet seized an intelligence treasure of Hamas in the form of mountains of documents, files and computers. Among other things, competency tables, equipment lists, classified maps and instructions on what to do if captured were found.
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3678740 77.126.1.49 ( talk) 07:07, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources:聽 Google ( books聽路 news聽路 scholar聽路 free images聽路 WP聽refs)聽路 FENS聽路 JSTOR聽路 TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 30聽days聽
![]() |
![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. Parts of this article relate to the Arab鈥揑sraeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing the parts of the page related to the contentious topic:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. If it is unclear which parts of the page are related to this contentious topic, the content in question should be marked within the wiki text by an invisible comment. If no comment is present, please ask an administrator for assistance. If in doubt it is better to assume that the content is covered. |
![]() |
Wikipedia is not censored. Images or details contained within this article may be graphic or otherwise objectionable to some readers, to ensure a quality article and complete coverage of its subject matter. For more information, please refer to Wikipedia's content disclaimer regarding potentially objectionable content and options for not seeing an image. |
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
Discussions:
|
![]() | Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip was nominated as a Social sciences and society good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (May 16, 2024, reviewed version). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: Moved. Editors recognised that there was more than one time when Israel invaded the Gaza Strip, and that those times were significant. The consensus view was that the invasion which began in October 2023 was the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. Particularly in relation to the invasion during the Six-Day War, several editors argued that the 1967 event would not be commonly sought by the term "Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip", and exercised their judgement of primary topic accordingly. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Adumbrativus ( talk) 04:51, 16 July 2024 (UTC)
鈥 Just like we don't have a date on Israel-Hamas war, as that is by far the most significant of the wars between Israel and Hamas, the current invasion of Gaza Strip is by far the most significant of the invasions of Gaza Strip. It is the longest in duration, most extensive in damage, the highest in casualties and received the most international attention. VR (Please ping on reply) 18:54, 31 May 2024 (UTC) 鈥斅Relisting.聽聽鈥斅 Amakuru ( talk) 07:40, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
the events that occurred in Gaza since them have all sprung from that.I don't think that's the case. The current events, a de facto leveling of Gaza arise by virtue of Hamas involvement in Gaza and all of the subsequent Israel Gaza wars. For that matter, the 67 war is not the only invasion, there was 48 and the Suez crisis and the unsourced cherry picking of the ptopic is merely an assertion on your part. Selfstudier ( talk) 10:40, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
My point is while your argument is based on WP:PT2, we can't ignore WP:PT1, which is whether this title is "the topic sought when a reader searches for that term." While "Invasion of Gaza Strip" to describe the 1967 war is technically correct, RS don't use that term that way. At best RS might use "Israeli invasion of Gaza and Sinai", but more likely they would use the word "Front" as opposed to "Invasion", and most simply use "1967 war" or "Six day war". Consider other recent examples:
Term | Target that a user is likely looking for (PT1) | Target that technically fits the definition and is more historically significant (PT2) | Explanation for PT2 |
---|---|---|---|
" Invasion of Cyprus", "Turkish invasion of Cyprus" | Turkish Invasion of Cyprus | Ottoman鈥揤enetian War (1570鈥1573) | The 1570 conquest by Turks took the entire island (not just the north) and endured for several centuries. |
"Russian invasion of Ukraine" | Russian invasion of Ukraine | Russo-Polish War (1654鈥1667) | the 17th century one actually brought Kyiv under Russian control (which didn't happen in 2022) and endured for centuries |
" Invasion of Kuwait" | Iraqi invasion of Kuwait | Battle of Chains (633) | The 633 Arab-Islamic invasion resulted it in becoming predominantly Arab and Islamic. By contrast the 1991 invasion was defeated quickly. |
In each of these cases, PT1 dominates mainly because few would use the given term to describe the more historically significant PT2 target. VR (Please ping on reply) 16:11, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
Sometimes airstrikes happen in advance of boots on the ground. Other times, boots on the ground and airstrikes start at the same time. In this case, airstrikes started before the incursions. This is similar to United States invasion of Afghanistan, when airstrikes started on Oct 7 (strange coincidence) but incursions didn't start until Oct 19. But that article still starts from the initial airstrikes and this article should do the same. It was obvious from the initial airstrikes that they were made with an intent to invade (eg see this Times of Israel article from Oct 8). VR (Please ping on reply) 04:00, 14 June 2024 (UTC)
There are other reasons to consider the start date Oct 7, not Oct 27. The sources make the Oct 7 distinction, but not the Oct 27 distinction:
![]() | This
edit request to
Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip (2023鈥損resent) has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
change starting date from 7 October 2023 to 27 October 2023 as the article said a few weeks ago as the Israel hamas war started october 7 but this proper invasion started 27 October 2023 173.72.3.91 ( talk) 16:57, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
@ Kashmiri, you're an experienced editor, was wondering, now that there is strong support for Al Jazeera's reliability to be changed from "reliable" to "no consensus" at the WP:RSN are you still sure that Al Jazeera is an appropriate source for something like this? 鈥斅 48 JCL 17:53, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
now that there is strong support for Al Jazeera's reliability to be changed from "reliable" to "no consensus"No such consensus. Selfstudier ( talk) 14:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
The IDF and the Shin Bet seized an intelligence treasure of Hamas in the form of mountains of documents, files and computers. Among other things, competency tables, equipment lists, classified maps and instructions on what to do if captured were found.
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3678740 77.126.1.49 ( talk) 07:07, 20 July 2024 (UTC)