The WP:UNDUE introduction of off-topic material about the PLO in an article about Israel-Zimbabwe relations will not be tolerated. Attempts to commandeer this article are unacceptable. I advise you not to start an edit war.-- Gilabrand ( talk) 14:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
this article is about bilateral relations between zimbabwe and israel. even if the lemba really had roots in what is now israel, they wouldn't be relevant for this article. unless, their existence would influence (in a positive or negative way) the relations between the two countries. see also Wikipedia:NOR.-- Severino ( talk) 16:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
this is not an article about israel but about the zimbabwe-israel relations. and the relevant sections deal exactly with that as other users have already assessed as one can see in the edit history.-- Severino ( talk) 17:51, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
you are ignoring the answers. there is no obligation to refute the allegations that the material is offtopic again and again. israel's occupation policy of course is mirrored in it's relations with zimbabwe.
is there a reason you ignore the offtopic issue of the lemba raised here? .-- Severino ( talk) 18:25, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Israel's support for the rhodesian minority regime, especially military, of course must not be ignored, all the more as it's something like the background for the present-day relations. -- Severino ( talk) 18:30, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
there are many details in The Israeli Connection: Whom Israel Arms and Why by Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi.-- Severino ( talk) 18:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
of course, but feel free to add the concerning information yourself.-- Severino ( talk) 19:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
ha ha ha. -- Severino ( talk) 22:49, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
I have been following this edit feud (not quite a war) on whether the Lemba are on topic or not with some interest. To start with, let me say that I have no vested interest here, being neither Jewish nor African.
My gut feel is that it is not so terribly off topic that it deserves an automatic death sentence. However, in the interests of fairness, I reviewed two similar articles: French_canadian_relations and French-American_relationship.
The French-Canadian article (which is indeed about France and Canada, not a discussion of the amours of French Canadians ;-) ) speaks about the French population of Canada at great length, because they have (or have had) a big impact on the relation of the two countries. However, in the France-US article, while there is necessarily discussion of Louisiana, there is no discussion of the Cajun population in Louisiana who came from France via Canada, presumably because they haven't really had an impact on the relationship of the 2 countries.
So, applying this logic to this article, we should delete the poor Lemba, or, as I would prefer, note the fact that while these people are there, they don't seem to have had any effect on the warming of relations between the two countries...in fact, I'll put that edit in, and see if we can stop this...
William J. 'Bill' McCalpin ( talk) 16:39, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Yea, allmost all of the ethiopian jews were brought to Israel with two extensive operations; something that has not occured here.-- Severino ( talk) 12:05, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
My argument for it staying is that Israel is always seeking out new sources of immigrants, and the Lemba at 70K+ would constitute a massive new pool for aliyah. Any such mass migration would be completely relevant to relations between the two countries, so I don't think it unreasonable to mention. Other than the former Soviet Union, with secularisation of Jewish families, I get the impression that the pool of potential immigrants is dwindling.
There used to be similar misgivings about the Falasha amongst some Jews in Israel.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 20:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
in case of mass immigration the lemba would be relevant for the relations.-- Severino ( talk) 20:17, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Despite their centuries-old traditions, some younger Lemba are taking a more liberal view.
"In the old days you didn't marry a non-Lemba, but these days we interact with others," says Alex Makotore, son of the late Chief Mposi from the Lemba "headquarters" in Mberengwa.
"I feel special in my heart but not in front of others such that I'm separated from them. Culture is dynamic."
The military help for Rhodesia took place against the background of this war (and not in peacetime), as also the source says! Also, Rhodesia's transformation to Zimbabwe, which is mentioned in the sentence in question ("independence"), was a result of this war. Therefore it's indispensable to mention it. Stop whitewashing.-- Severino ( talk) 11:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
The map shows the Gaza Strip and West Bank as part of Israel. This should be corrected. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 18:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't think there is a point in having separate articles for Rhodesia and Zimbabwe. Not only is it the continuation of the same state, but there isn't even a main article on the foreign relations of Rhodesia (or Zaire etc. for that matter). â Ynhockey ( Talk) 13:06, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
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The WP:UNDUE introduction of off-topic material about the PLO in an article about Israel-Zimbabwe relations will not be tolerated. Attempts to commandeer this article are unacceptable. I advise you not to start an edit war.-- Gilabrand ( talk) 14:10, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
this article is about bilateral relations between zimbabwe and israel. even if the lemba really had roots in what is now israel, they wouldn't be relevant for this article. unless, their existence would influence (in a positive or negative way) the relations between the two countries. see also Wikipedia:NOR.-- Severino ( talk) 16:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
this is not an article about israel but about the zimbabwe-israel relations. and the relevant sections deal exactly with that as other users have already assessed as one can see in the edit history.-- Severino ( talk) 17:51, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
you are ignoring the answers. there is no obligation to refute the allegations that the material is offtopic again and again. israel's occupation policy of course is mirrored in it's relations with zimbabwe.
is there a reason you ignore the offtopic issue of the lemba raised here? .-- Severino ( talk) 18:25, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Israel's support for the rhodesian minority regime, especially military, of course must not be ignored, all the more as it's something like the background for the present-day relations. -- Severino ( talk) 18:30, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
there are many details in The Israeli Connection: Whom Israel Arms and Why by Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi.-- Severino ( talk) 18:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
of course, but feel free to add the concerning information yourself.-- Severino ( talk) 19:46, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
ha ha ha. -- Severino ( talk) 22:49, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
I have been following this edit feud (not quite a war) on whether the Lemba are on topic or not with some interest. To start with, let me say that I have no vested interest here, being neither Jewish nor African.
My gut feel is that it is not so terribly off topic that it deserves an automatic death sentence. However, in the interests of fairness, I reviewed two similar articles: French_canadian_relations and French-American_relationship.
The French-Canadian article (which is indeed about France and Canada, not a discussion of the amours of French Canadians ;-) ) speaks about the French population of Canada at great length, because they have (or have had) a big impact on the relation of the two countries. However, in the France-US article, while there is necessarily discussion of Louisiana, there is no discussion of the Cajun population in Louisiana who came from France via Canada, presumably because they haven't really had an impact on the relationship of the 2 countries.
So, applying this logic to this article, we should delete the poor Lemba, or, as I would prefer, note the fact that while these people are there, they don't seem to have had any effect on the warming of relations between the two countries...in fact, I'll put that edit in, and see if we can stop this...
William J. 'Bill' McCalpin ( talk) 16:39, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Yea, allmost all of the ethiopian jews were brought to Israel with two extensive operations; something that has not occured here.-- Severino ( talk) 12:05, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
My argument for it staying is that Israel is always seeking out new sources of immigrants, and the Lemba at 70K+ would constitute a massive new pool for aliyah. Any such mass migration would be completely relevant to relations between the two countries, so I don't think it unreasonable to mention. Other than the former Soviet Union, with secularisation of Jewish families, I get the impression that the pool of potential immigrants is dwindling.
There used to be similar misgivings about the Falasha amongst some Jews in Israel.-- MacRusgail ( talk) 20:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
in case of mass immigration the lemba would be relevant for the relations.-- Severino ( talk) 20:17, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Despite their centuries-old traditions, some younger Lemba are taking a more liberal view.
"In the old days you didn't marry a non-Lemba, but these days we interact with others," says Alex Makotore, son of the late Chief Mposi from the Lemba "headquarters" in Mberengwa.
"I feel special in my heart but not in front of others such that I'm separated from them. Culture is dynamic."
The military help for Rhodesia took place against the background of this war (and not in peacetime), as also the source says! Also, Rhodesia's transformation to Zimbabwe, which is mentioned in the sentence in question ("independence"), was a result of this war. Therefore it's indispensable to mention it. Stop whitewashing.-- Severino ( talk) 11:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
The map shows the Gaza Strip and West Bank as part of Israel. This should be corrected. -- IRISZOOM ( talk) 18:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't think there is a point in having separate articles for Rhodesia and Zimbabwe. Not only is it the continuation of the same state, but there isn't even a main article on the foreign relations of Rhodesia (or Zaire etc. for that matter). â Ynhockey ( Talk) 13:06, 3 April 2017 (UTC)