My proposed changes:
by the early 19th century, more than 10,000 Jews lived in the area that is today's Israel.
To something more accurate. I suspect that the real number is something like "slighly more than 10,000". Cutting off the "slighly" is not very accurate.
If you can find accurate numbers and a source, please put them in. Jayjg 03:14, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
How about this:
In 1880, before the birth of modern Zionism, about 25,000 Jews lived in Palestine. Two thirds of them in Jerusalem.
They amounted to about 5% of the total population.
Palestine-info 15:28, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
5% of the total population? where are you getting your info based from?
My proposed changes:
and the subsequent attempted extermination of the Jewish people in the Shoah, or Holocaust.
To:
and the Holocaust.
The Holocaust is well known enough that you dont have to mention again that it was an attempt to exterminate "the Jews of Europe". And why use the Jewish word for it when this is an English language encyclopaedia?
The Holocaust article makes it (to me) obvious that the attempt was to exterminate the Jews of Europe. I don't doubt that the Fürher would have loved to exterminate non-Europeians too. But the Holocaust seems to have been limited to Europeian Jewry. Besides, everyone already knows what the attempt and the motivation was. Palestine-info 07:28, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You don't make any sense. I still note that the Holocaust article does not call the Holocaust the "attempted extermination of the Jewish people". Palestine-info 20:20, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Shoah has become an English word. [6]
My proposed changes:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations
To:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and several unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations
Cause the British government tried many times.
My proposed changes:
Fulfillment of the 1947 UN Partition Plan would have divided the mandated territory into two states, Jewish and Arab, giving about half the land area to each state. This plan, as well as an earlier 1937 partition proposed by the Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab leaders. Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the United Nations General Assembly, the Palestinian Arab leadership vowed to crush the as yet un-named Jewish State and launched a guerilla war.
To:
The 1947 UN Partiton Plan was put forward to divide Palestine in two states of roughly equal size, one Jewish and one Arab. This plan, as well as an earlier 1937 partition proposed by the Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab leaders. The Partition Plan was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly with 33 votes in favour, 13 votes against and 10 abstainees. Immidiately following the adoption of the plan violence broke out between the Jewish and Arab populations. Particularily the Jewish guerilla groups Irgun and Lehi played a vital role in escalating the conflict to a state of war.
Because the previous paragraph describes Arab guerillas as the main instigators. In reality, Irgun and Lehi was the only guerillas in Palestine at the time and they actively escalated the conflict. And I think the fact that the adoption of the plan was far from unanimous is important.
Then the whole plan is excess detail. Well yeah, it really is excess detail. The UN doesn't have a right to partition territories. General Assembly resolutions are only recommendations not legally binding. And the recommendation of the resolution is contradictory to Article 1 of the United Nations Charter - that of self-determination of peoples. [7]
So either, we remove the paragraphs describing the partition plan or we supply enough information to the reader so that he or she gets the full picture. My proposed paragraph is updated:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and several unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations, the British government withdrew from the Palestine Mandate. The [[UN General Assembly]], with 33 votes in favour, 13 votes against and 10 abstainees, adopted a plan for the future of Palestine which became known as the 1947 UN Partition Plan. It recommended that the Mandate be split in two states of roughly equal size, one Jewish and one Arab. This plan, as well as an earlier 1937 partition proposed by the Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab leaders.
Immidiately following the adoption of the plan violence broke out between the Jewish and Arab populations. The Jewish guerilla groups Irgun and Lehi played a vital role in escalating the conflict to a state of war.
And if you do a body count of the casualties of the attacks before the war, then you will see that there was many more Arabs killed than Jews. Also, no single Arab group comes close to the number of attacks that Irgun and Lehi executed. So in effect, there was no Arab guerilla. That is why Lehi and Irgun should be mentioned because there were no other. Palestine-info 07:51, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have forgot. :) I admit that the last senctence The Jewish guerilla groups...
should be scrapped until a reliable source that emphasizes Irgun and Lehi's role can be found. However:
Seem to indicate that the Zionist side should receive the lion share of the responsibility if either side should be blamed. Even if the undergrounds is not mentioned. Palestine-info 10:39, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
My proposed changes:
Israel captured an additional 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan river and annexed it to the new state.
To:
Israel captured an additional 26% of the Mandate territory and annexed it to the new state. No state in the world recognized the annexation.
Because there is a clause about Jordan's annexation. Atleast Jordan got it from Britain and Pakistan, Israel didn't get it from anyone. Both sides should be treated equally.
My proposed changes:
The Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt, and came under its control.
To:
The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt, but was never formally annexed.
Since Jordan's annexation is mentioned, Israel's annexation should be mentioned and the fact that Egypt did not annex the Gaza Strip should be mentioned.
Then that can of worms should be opened. Occupied but not annexed is entierly correct and more detailed than the previous wording. Palestine-info 08:47, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
No "Occupied" is not an opinion. See belligerent occupation and [8] which explains that:
"Article 42 of the 1907 Hague Regulations (HR) states that a "territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."
According to their common Article 2, the four Geneva Conventions of 1949 apply to any territory occupied during international hostilities. They also apply in situations where the occupation of state territory meets with no armed resistance."
that is very clear-cut. Besides, I haven't heard any authorative source disputing that Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip in 1948. I suspect that you resist because if it is written that Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip then it obviously aslo must be written that Israel occupied the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Palestine-info 21:32, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
My proposed changes:
by the early 19th century, more than 10,000 Jews lived in the area that is today's Israel.
To something more accurate. I suspect that the real number is something like "slighly more than 10,000". Cutting off the "slighly" is not very accurate.
If you can find accurate numbers and a source, please put them in. Jayjg 03:14, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
How about this:
In 1880, before the birth of modern Zionism, about 25,000 Jews lived in Palestine. Two thirds of them in Jerusalem.
They amounted to about 5% of the total population.
Palestine-info 15:28, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
5% of the total population? where are you getting your info based from?
My proposed changes:
and the subsequent attempted extermination of the Jewish people in the Shoah, or Holocaust.
To:
and the Holocaust.
The Holocaust is well known enough that you dont have to mention again that it was an attempt to exterminate "the Jews of Europe". And why use the Jewish word for it when this is an English language encyclopaedia?
The Holocaust article makes it (to me) obvious that the attempt was to exterminate the Jews of Europe. I don't doubt that the Fürher would have loved to exterminate non-Europeians too. But the Holocaust seems to have been limited to Europeian Jewry. Besides, everyone already knows what the attempt and the motivation was. Palestine-info 07:28, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You don't make any sense. I still note that the Holocaust article does not call the Holocaust the "attempted extermination of the Jewish people". Palestine-info 20:20, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Shoah has become an English word. [6]
My proposed changes:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations
To:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and several unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations
Cause the British government tried many times.
My proposed changes:
Fulfillment of the 1947 UN Partition Plan would have divided the mandated territory into two states, Jewish and Arab, giving about half the land area to each state. This plan, as well as an earlier 1937 partition proposed by the Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab leaders. Immediately following the adoption of the Partition Plan by the United Nations General Assembly, the Palestinian Arab leadership vowed to crush the as yet un-named Jewish State and launched a guerilla war.
To:
The 1947 UN Partiton Plan was put forward to divide Palestine in two states of roughly equal size, one Jewish and one Arab. This plan, as well as an earlier 1937 partition proposed by the Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab leaders. The Partition Plan was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly with 33 votes in favour, 13 votes against and 10 abstainees. Immidiately following the adoption of the plan violence broke out between the Jewish and Arab populations. Particularily the Jewish guerilla groups Irgun and Lehi played a vital role in escalating the conflict to a state of war.
Because the previous paragraph describes Arab guerillas as the main instigators. In reality, Irgun and Lehi was the only guerillas in Palestine at the time and they actively escalated the conflict. And I think the fact that the adoption of the plan was far from unanimous is important.
Then the whole plan is excess detail. Well yeah, it really is excess detail. The UN doesn't have a right to partition territories. General Assembly resolutions are only recommendations not legally binding. And the recommendation of the resolution is contradictory to Article 1 of the United Nations Charter - that of self-determination of peoples. [7]
So either, we remove the paragraphs describing the partition plan or we supply enough information to the reader so that he or she gets the full picture. My proposed paragraph is updated:
In 1947, following increasing levels of violence and several unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations, the British government withdrew from the Palestine Mandate. The [[UN General Assembly]], with 33 votes in favour, 13 votes against and 10 abstainees, adopted a plan for the future of Palestine which became known as the 1947 UN Partition Plan. It recommended that the Mandate be split in two states of roughly equal size, one Jewish and one Arab. This plan, as well as an earlier 1937 partition proposed by the Peel Commission, was rejected by Arab leaders.
Immidiately following the adoption of the plan violence broke out between the Jewish and Arab populations. The Jewish guerilla groups Irgun and Lehi played a vital role in escalating the conflict to a state of war.
And if you do a body count of the casualties of the attacks before the war, then you will see that there was many more Arabs killed than Jews. Also, no single Arab group comes close to the number of attacks that Irgun and Lehi executed. So in effect, there was no Arab guerilla. That is why Lehi and Irgun should be mentioned because there were no other. Palestine-info 07:51, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I have forgot. :) I admit that the last senctence The Jewish guerilla groups...
should be scrapped until a reliable source that emphasizes Irgun and Lehi's role can be found. However:
Seem to indicate that the Zionist side should receive the lion share of the responsibility if either side should be blamed. Even if the undergrounds is not mentioned. Palestine-info 10:39, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)
My proposed changes:
Israel captured an additional 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan river and annexed it to the new state.
To:
Israel captured an additional 26% of the Mandate territory and annexed it to the new state. No state in the world recognized the annexation.
Because there is a clause about Jordan's annexation. Atleast Jordan got it from Britain and Pakistan, Israel didn't get it from anyone. Both sides should be treated equally.
My proposed changes:
The Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt, and came under its control.
To:
The Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt, but was never formally annexed.
Since Jordan's annexation is mentioned, Israel's annexation should be mentioned and the fact that Egypt did not annex the Gaza Strip should be mentioned.
Then that can of worms should be opened. Occupied but not annexed is entierly correct and more detailed than the previous wording. Palestine-info 08:47, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
No "Occupied" is not an opinion. See belligerent occupation and [8] which explains that:
"Article 42 of the 1907 Hague Regulations (HR) states that a "territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised."
According to their common Article 2, the four Geneva Conventions of 1949 apply to any territory occupied during international hostilities. They also apply in situations where the occupation of state territory meets with no armed resistance."
that is very clear-cut. Besides, I haven't heard any authorative source disputing that Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip in 1948. I suspect that you resist because if it is written that Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip then it obviously aslo must be written that Israel occupied the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Palestine-info 21:32, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)