My proposed changes:
It is a parliamentary democracy with a predominantly Jewish population and a large non-Jewish minority
to:
It is a Jewish state with a predominantly Jewish population and a large non-Jewish minority
This is because:
Israel is a parliamentary democracy, not all democracies have formal written constitutions, Israel gives equal rights to all its citizens, this has been ironed out in Talk: before, please view it. Jayjg 03:09, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
--- FWIW, England, home to "the Mother of Parliaments", long had no official, written constitution and, even today, has only an "uncodified" one. czrisher 25 Oct 2004
Do you mean this page [1]? I can't see an ironing in that page. States with constiutions are in general, more democratic than states without. But that is beyond the point because an encyclopaedia shouldn't label countries as democratic or not democratic. Palestine-info 14:17, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What previous claim are you talking about? My stance is very clear and you can read it in the two previous paragraphs above written by me. You are making two assertions without backing either one up. The latter one is the one that is relevant to this discussion. You are claiming that "Democracies are pretty easy to define" but you do not mention how you define democracies. I think you should do it since it is "pretty easy". Wikipedia does indeed label atleast two countries as democracies - France and Israel. Those labellings are errors and should be corrected. I also note that neither Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Italy, Ireland, Luxembourg, Norway or Sweden are labelled as democracies in their respective articles. Palestine-info 13:10, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
First question: What is a democracy? Answer: Quoting from Democracy
Israel fails some of these and passes through some of the others. Note that the article says democracy can be characterized, not that the list lists the exact criteria for what is democracy. But that's old and it feels like I've repeated it a million times now.
Second question: Even if we assume that the above listed attributes are an exact definition of democracy, would Israel qualify? Anser: NO
See [3] (lists Israel 42 in democratic rights).
Or see [5]. Or read my selected quotes from that page:
More: [6],
If you did mean that Israel is a democracy because you can vote in Israel. Then yes, you are right, many people can vote in Israel. But more is required than voting for democracy. Btw, it is funny that you mention CIA World Factbook as a reference for your statement "Israel is a democracy" but then in a few paragraphs below reject it when it calls the Occupied Territories "Israeli-occupied". Just for fun, can you find some other pages than the World Factbook that label Israel as a democracy? Palestine-info 01:26, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
"Israel is mainly a formal democracy that has not yet acquired the characteristics of a substantive democracy." [15] If the Israeli Democracy Institute writes that, then there as to be something behind it. It proves that it is not widely agreed that Israel is a democracy. Palestine-info 06:03, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
My proposed changes:
Israel shares the coastlines of the Mediterranean, the Gulf of Eilat / Aqaba, and the Dead Sea.
to:
Israel shares the coastlines of the Mediterranean, the Gulf of Aqaba / Eliat, Lake Tiberias and the Dead Sea.
This is because:
Israel has annexed the Golan Heights, regardless of whether or not others approve. The facts on the ground are that Lake Tiberias is currently not a border. Jayjg 03:10, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Since the UN consider the Golan Heights occupied, we should too. If we consider the Golan Heights occupied (as we should) then there IS a water-border on the east coast of Lake Tiberias. But the dead sea and Lake Tiberias are lakes so my new proposal.
to:
Israel has a large coastline in the Mediterranean and a small one in the Gulf of Aqaba.
Palestine-info 14:30, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Tangential discussion moved to User talk:Palestine-info
My proposed changes:
It is a parliamentary democracy with a predominantly Jewish population and a large non-Jewish minority
to:
It is a Jewish state with a predominantly Jewish population and a large non-Jewish minority
This is because:
Israel is a parliamentary democracy, not all democracies have formal written constitutions, Israel gives equal rights to all its citizens, this has been ironed out in Talk: before, please view it. Jayjg 03:09, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
--- FWIW, England, home to "the Mother of Parliaments", long had no official, written constitution and, even today, has only an "uncodified" one. czrisher 25 Oct 2004
Do you mean this page [1]? I can't see an ironing in that page. States with constiutions are in general, more democratic than states without. But that is beyond the point because an encyclopaedia shouldn't label countries as democratic or not democratic. Palestine-info 14:17, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What previous claim are you talking about? My stance is very clear and you can read it in the two previous paragraphs above written by me. You are making two assertions without backing either one up. The latter one is the one that is relevant to this discussion. You are claiming that "Democracies are pretty easy to define" but you do not mention how you define democracies. I think you should do it since it is "pretty easy". Wikipedia does indeed label atleast two countries as democracies - France and Israel. Those labellings are errors and should be corrected. I also note that neither Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Italy, Ireland, Luxembourg, Norway or Sweden are labelled as democracies in their respective articles. Palestine-info 13:10, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
First question: What is a democracy? Answer: Quoting from Democracy
Israel fails some of these and passes through some of the others. Note that the article says democracy can be characterized, not that the list lists the exact criteria for what is democracy. But that's old and it feels like I've repeated it a million times now.
Second question: Even if we assume that the above listed attributes are an exact definition of democracy, would Israel qualify? Anser: NO
See [3] (lists Israel 42 in democratic rights).
Or see [5]. Or read my selected quotes from that page:
More: [6],
If you did mean that Israel is a democracy because you can vote in Israel. Then yes, you are right, many people can vote in Israel. But more is required than voting for democracy. Btw, it is funny that you mention CIA World Factbook as a reference for your statement "Israel is a democracy" but then in a few paragraphs below reject it when it calls the Occupied Territories "Israeli-occupied". Just for fun, can you find some other pages than the World Factbook that label Israel as a democracy? Palestine-info 01:26, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
"Israel is mainly a formal democracy that has not yet acquired the characteristics of a substantive democracy." [15] If the Israeli Democracy Institute writes that, then there as to be something behind it. It proves that it is not widely agreed that Israel is a democracy. Palestine-info 06:03, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
My proposed changes:
Israel shares the coastlines of the Mediterranean, the Gulf of Eilat / Aqaba, and the Dead Sea.
to:
Israel shares the coastlines of the Mediterranean, the Gulf of Aqaba / Eliat, Lake Tiberias and the Dead Sea.
This is because:
Israel has annexed the Golan Heights, regardless of whether or not others approve. The facts on the ground are that Lake Tiberias is currently not a border. Jayjg 03:10, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Since the UN consider the Golan Heights occupied, we should too. If we consider the Golan Heights occupied (as we should) then there IS a water-border on the east coast of Lake Tiberias. But the dead sea and Lake Tiberias are lakes so my new proposal.
to:
Israel has a large coastline in the Mediterranean and a small one in the Gulf of Aqaba.
Palestine-info 14:30, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Tangential discussion moved to User talk:Palestine-info