![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
This entry could really benefitfrom an image. It' be really easy to create. I'd add it myself, but I've never added images to articles before and am not sure how to go To do this
Eventually, someone will point out that video games warrant only a footnote in this article, and that "isometric" is an adjective (so the first sentence is inappropriate) and there should be a link to this page from "isometry". I'm too busy now, though. -- Mike Hardy
Sim City wasn't isometric was it? I suppose the graphics you got when your commerical zone (or whatever) sprouted an actual building (what excitement!) were sort of isometric, but still, it seems somewhat misleading to put it here, cos the actual game was played on a 2D top-down square grid. It was in the Spectrum version anyway. Ah, how I miss the old speccy... -- Camembert
Should a new page be created, something like Isometric video games or List of isometric projection video games? The list is getting a bit long and starting to dominate the article. This seems inappropriate since video games are really just a footnote to the article. - Frecklefoot
Isometric projection is addessed under orthographic projection, Pictorials. Suggest this site my be considered for removal..... Pat Kelso 21:22, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)
By everyone's leave will try to clean this one up.... Pat Kelso 00:22, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)
Strictly speaking, most, if not all, of the games listed actually use some form of dimetric projection. Ditto for the TV drawing. — Andux 09:28, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
"... it corresponds to rotation of the object by +/- 45° about the vertical axis, followed by rotation of approximately +/- 35.264° [= arcsin(tan(30°))] about the horizontal axis..."
It is actually +/-45 degrees and +/-45 degrees [around the vertical and horizontal axes, respectively] for true isometric, and +/-45 degress and +-30 degrees [around the vertical and horizontal axes, respectively] for the particular form of dimetric projection commonly found in computer games. I don't know where you got the arcsin(tan()) stuff. - SharkD 19:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
"The projection used in videogames usually deviates slightly from true isometric due to the limitations of raster graphics. Lines in the x and y axes would not follow a neat pixel pattern when drawn in the required 30° to the horizontal."
I think that it has more to do with the fact that "3/4" view is easier on the eyes than true isometric. True isometric view, while great for mechanical part schematics, often leaves viewers feeling disoriented. - SharkD 06:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
As implied in the quote, the simple reason was: pixel ratio. You have to remember that, when isometric perspective became popular, screen resolutions were limited to 256x192 and sometimes even less (many isogames on CPC and C64 used lowres modes). You simply couldn't afford realistic perspectives on such screens, which would have actually disoriented gamers because of the limited resolution and strong pixel aliasing. Besides, the action in most isogames was focused on a single room at a time, which boundaries were confined enough to not confuse gamers. The main default of isogames was not the incorrect perspective, but the lack of projected shadows. Kaminari ( talk) 18:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Back in the day, people would talk about games which were "three fourth's perspective." Does anybody know if that is an accurate synonym for isometric? -- Adamrush 16:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Any two distances that are equal in a 3 dimensional object will be equal in isometric projection.
I wasn't sure about this statement, so I stuck it here instead. Anyone know for sure? Algr 02:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Here is an ... link to an [excellent] article discussing the use of orthographic projection in SimCity 4. For some reason [the link] was removed in a revision... - SharkD 19:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
We could use some example images of this perspective being used in engineering drafting. I know I used it in high school. - SharkD 06:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
The 'See also' list was replaced with a 'Graphical projection' table. How do you create those? - SharkD 01:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
The addition of the two new 3D rendered images is becoming problematic. Are there any more suggestions to remove certain images and consider new arrangements? In terms of the former, I'm thinking about removing the pixel art TV (now that it's devoid of any real purpose after the redundant caption is gone) and one of the two game screenshots. ╫ 25 ◀RingADing▶ 16:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC) ╫
Maybe the "isometric" games section should be reduced to a stub and moved to the dimetric or axonometric projection articles? That would reduce crowding, as there's not much over there at the moment. - SharkD 23:30, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
It's hard to compare true isometric projection with video-game quasi-"isometric" projection unless you have both of them in there. Maybe they should be set side by side (though I'm not sure exactly where the best place for that would be...). AnonMoos 14:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I updated the SVG image showing the isometric cube. Wikipedia's SVGtoPNG converter is a bit buggy, so there are errors introduced that aren't in the source file. Hopefully, WP will update their converter sometime in the near future. - SharkD 15:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
There's some disagreement as to whether the game Fallout is isometric or not, and whether it should be listed. Though it is in fact trimetric, it is referred to frequently as isometric. Also, only two games in the list are really isometric. What people really mean when they say "isometric" is that a game uses orthographic projection--which Fallout certainly does. Should we then not include all the rest? SharkD 23:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I consider computer desktop icons as being pixel art; therefore, I think that section is redundant and should be removed. SharkD 17:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm having trouble figuring out what form of graphical projection is used in parts of the Ultima series (starting with Ultima VI). Is it dimetric? SharkD 16:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the list of notable iso games is too long and would like to discuss which games should be removed. SharkD 21:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Hm, maybe instead of a mere list, we should have a section describing some kind of history of isometric games by its notable examples. A lot more work, especially as it requires finding references for the notability of each cited example - but should stop everyone inserting their favorite games.. (hm, and no, I don't think I'd be up to this currently myself) -- Allefant 22:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Seems it didn't prove to be a big problem, but still, with quite some delay, I've now attempted to do the above. If it's to stay, I'll also try to find references for the last paragraph and add fair use rationales for the two images. Some of the games mentioned are of course arbitrary choices so could be removed or replaced with better ones. And if someone really thinks more games need to be mentioned, then they could be added in a similar style showing why they should be mentioned. I think it's better than just a list in any case. -- Allefant ( talk) 14:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I notice that this 3D rendered image (and the similar one in videogames.) is NOT isometric. All the lines clearly converge to vanishing points. This seems important and should be noted somehow. Perhaps a corresponding image could be made that actually is isometric. (Although this might be tricky to do in a 3D rendering program.) Algr 09:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I wonder where and when this term began to be mistakenly applied to video games. I believe this is due to the fact that isometric projection is taught in introductory drafting courses in high school. Computer programmers probably took such courses and never learned of the existence of dimetric and trimetric projection. Note that dimetric and trimetric projection aren't taught in these courses, as they're much harder to construct using only a compass and straightedge. In my personal experience, we even played SimCity 2000 [edit] in the classroom once our assignments were completed. Therefore, the two are always linked, in my mind. SharkD ( talk) 07:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
As a kind of legacy of the use of isometric projection in video games, I think it may also be worth mentioning games that use true 3D graphics but give a view that looks like an isometric one; although with perspective and possible rotation available. Typical of games, especially early 3D games, that are tile based and wanted to use 3D but stick with a familiar view. Games like Dark Savior, Civilization IV, Vandal Hearts, off the top of my head although I'm sure there must be more. Carlwev ( talk) 10:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
This image caught my attention
Although isometric projection appears to be used more recently, how much was it used in the past, and what for? and what was the first known use? This image from the 15th century looks Isometric. Carlwev ( talk) 18:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been re-reading the article, and think that Fallout and SimCity 4 may in fact use a 2:1 pixel ratio despite being trimetric. Closer examination of the game sprites (in the case of Fallout; IIRC SimCity 4 doesn't use sprites) might be warranted. SharkD ( talk) 22:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
The docs for the video game FATE describe the perspective it uses as "Asymmetric view". The view is one where a perspective camera is placed somewhat distant, so that it "feels" sort of like the traditional "isometric" view. I think this is a neat term, as it highlights the differences between it and isometric perspective, while still remaining a single word (so that it's easy to remember). SharkD ( talk) 07:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Not sure whether this is worth mentioning in the article, but the Baldur's Gate series and The Temple of Elemental Evil use a rotation angle of 45 degrees from the horizontal instead of 35.264 degrees or 30 degrees. SharkD ( talk) 00:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
The "History" and "Limitations..." sections could just as well go into Parallel projection or Axonometric projection, as the material that is covered applies nearly equally to them as well. SharkD Talk 08:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The way the article is set up now, the images are all displayed at a rather small size (instead of standard 220px thumbnail view). AnonMoos ( talk) 13:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
The caption on the first figure in the "History and limitations" section should state the the machine is an optical-grinding engine, not an optimal-grinding engine. Yes, the file name ("Optimal-grinding engine model.jpg") says it's an optimal-grinding engine, but the image description clearly states: "Optical-grinding engine model. This is perhaps the first machine drawing rendered in 30 degrees isometric." Also of note is that the original source uses "optical", not "optimal" (noted in the edit history for the image).
Oddly, this was fixed at one point but someone changed it back, evidently without stopping to consider what exactly an optimal-grinding engine would do (although I suppose some might consider "grind optimally" to be a plausible answer). 69.77.169.106 ( talk) 19:10, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
I think there is ...something wrong... with these images. Firstly, the axes are not labeled, so one cannot tell which is the x-axis, which is the y-axis, etc. Usually the x-axis is red, the y-axis is green and the z-axis is blue. Secondly, shouldn't you rotate first around the vertical axis by 45° and then the horizontal axis by arctan 1⁄√2? These images seem to do things in the wrong order. SharkD Talk 13:15, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Isometric graphics in video games and pixel art which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 11:46, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
The redirect
Isometric perspective has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 2 § Isometric perspective until a consensus is reached.
Jay
💬 13:17, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
This entry could really benefitfrom an image. It' be really easy to create. I'd add it myself, but I've never added images to articles before and am not sure how to go To do this
Eventually, someone will point out that video games warrant only a footnote in this article, and that "isometric" is an adjective (so the first sentence is inappropriate) and there should be a link to this page from "isometry". I'm too busy now, though. -- Mike Hardy
Sim City wasn't isometric was it? I suppose the graphics you got when your commerical zone (or whatever) sprouted an actual building (what excitement!) were sort of isometric, but still, it seems somewhat misleading to put it here, cos the actual game was played on a 2D top-down square grid. It was in the Spectrum version anyway. Ah, how I miss the old speccy... -- Camembert
Should a new page be created, something like Isometric video games or List of isometric projection video games? The list is getting a bit long and starting to dominate the article. This seems inappropriate since video games are really just a footnote to the article. - Frecklefoot
Isometric projection is addessed under orthographic projection, Pictorials. Suggest this site my be considered for removal..... Pat Kelso 21:22, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)
By everyone's leave will try to clean this one up.... Pat Kelso 00:22, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)
Strictly speaking, most, if not all, of the games listed actually use some form of dimetric projection. Ditto for the TV drawing. — Andux 09:28, August 22, 2005 (UTC)
"... it corresponds to rotation of the object by +/- 45° about the vertical axis, followed by rotation of approximately +/- 35.264° [= arcsin(tan(30°))] about the horizontal axis..."
It is actually +/-45 degrees and +/-45 degrees [around the vertical and horizontal axes, respectively] for true isometric, and +/-45 degress and +-30 degrees [around the vertical and horizontal axes, respectively] for the particular form of dimetric projection commonly found in computer games. I don't know where you got the arcsin(tan()) stuff. - SharkD 19:27, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
"The projection used in videogames usually deviates slightly from true isometric due to the limitations of raster graphics. Lines in the x and y axes would not follow a neat pixel pattern when drawn in the required 30° to the horizontal."
I think that it has more to do with the fact that "3/4" view is easier on the eyes than true isometric. True isometric view, while great for mechanical part schematics, often leaves viewers feeling disoriented. - SharkD 06:08, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
As implied in the quote, the simple reason was: pixel ratio. You have to remember that, when isometric perspective became popular, screen resolutions were limited to 256x192 and sometimes even less (many isogames on CPC and C64 used lowres modes). You simply couldn't afford realistic perspectives on such screens, which would have actually disoriented gamers because of the limited resolution and strong pixel aliasing. Besides, the action in most isogames was focused on a single room at a time, which boundaries were confined enough to not confuse gamers. The main default of isogames was not the incorrect perspective, but the lack of projected shadows. Kaminari ( talk) 18:19, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Back in the day, people would talk about games which were "three fourth's perspective." Does anybody know if that is an accurate synonym for isometric? -- Adamrush 16:19, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Any two distances that are equal in a 3 dimensional object will be equal in isometric projection.
I wasn't sure about this statement, so I stuck it here instead. Anyone know for sure? Algr 02:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
Here is an ... link to an [excellent] article discussing the use of orthographic projection in SimCity 4. For some reason [the link] was removed in a revision... - SharkD 19:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
We could use some example images of this perspective being used in engineering drafting. I know I used it in high school. - SharkD 06:24, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
The 'See also' list was replaced with a 'Graphical projection' table. How do you create those? - SharkD 01:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
The addition of the two new 3D rendered images is becoming problematic. Are there any more suggestions to remove certain images and consider new arrangements? In terms of the former, I'm thinking about removing the pixel art TV (now that it's devoid of any real purpose after the redundant caption is gone) and one of the two game screenshots. ╫ 25 ◀RingADing▶ 16:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC) ╫
Maybe the "isometric" games section should be reduced to a stub and moved to the dimetric or axonometric projection articles? That would reduce crowding, as there's not much over there at the moment. - SharkD 23:30, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
It's hard to compare true isometric projection with video-game quasi-"isometric" projection unless you have both of them in there. Maybe they should be set side by side (though I'm not sure exactly where the best place for that would be...). AnonMoos 14:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I updated the SVG image showing the isometric cube. Wikipedia's SVGtoPNG converter is a bit buggy, so there are errors introduced that aren't in the source file. Hopefully, WP will update their converter sometime in the near future. - SharkD 15:16, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
There's some disagreement as to whether the game Fallout is isometric or not, and whether it should be listed. Though it is in fact trimetric, it is referred to frequently as isometric. Also, only two games in the list are really isometric. What people really mean when they say "isometric" is that a game uses orthographic projection--which Fallout certainly does. Should we then not include all the rest? SharkD 23:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I consider computer desktop icons as being pixel art; therefore, I think that section is redundant and should be removed. SharkD 17:40, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm having trouble figuring out what form of graphical projection is used in parts of the Ultima series (starting with Ultima VI). Is it dimetric? SharkD 16:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I think the list of notable iso games is too long and would like to discuss which games should be removed. SharkD 21:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Hm, maybe instead of a mere list, we should have a section describing some kind of history of isometric games by its notable examples. A lot more work, especially as it requires finding references for the notability of each cited example - but should stop everyone inserting their favorite games.. (hm, and no, I don't think I'd be up to this currently myself) -- Allefant 22:51, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Seems it didn't prove to be a big problem, but still, with quite some delay, I've now attempted to do the above. If it's to stay, I'll also try to find references for the last paragraph and add fair use rationales for the two images. Some of the games mentioned are of course arbitrary choices so could be removed or replaced with better ones. And if someone really thinks more games need to be mentioned, then they could be added in a similar style showing why they should be mentioned. I think it's better than just a list in any case. -- Allefant ( talk) 14:05, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
I notice that this 3D rendered image (and the similar one in videogames.) is NOT isometric. All the lines clearly converge to vanishing points. This seems important and should be noted somehow. Perhaps a corresponding image could be made that actually is isometric. (Although this might be tricky to do in a 3D rendering program.) Algr 09:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I wonder where and when this term began to be mistakenly applied to video games. I believe this is due to the fact that isometric projection is taught in introductory drafting courses in high school. Computer programmers probably took such courses and never learned of the existence of dimetric and trimetric projection. Note that dimetric and trimetric projection aren't taught in these courses, as they're much harder to construct using only a compass and straightedge. In my personal experience, we even played SimCity 2000 [edit] in the classroom once our assignments were completed. Therefore, the two are always linked, in my mind. SharkD ( talk) 07:51, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
As a kind of legacy of the use of isometric projection in video games, I think it may also be worth mentioning games that use true 3D graphics but give a view that looks like an isometric one; although with perspective and possible rotation available. Typical of games, especially early 3D games, that are tile based and wanted to use 3D but stick with a familiar view. Games like Dark Savior, Civilization IV, Vandal Hearts, off the top of my head although I'm sure there must be more. Carlwev ( talk) 10:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
This image caught my attention
Although isometric projection appears to be used more recently, how much was it used in the past, and what for? and what was the first known use? This image from the 15th century looks Isometric. Carlwev ( talk) 18:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I've been re-reading the article, and think that Fallout and SimCity 4 may in fact use a 2:1 pixel ratio despite being trimetric. Closer examination of the game sprites (in the case of Fallout; IIRC SimCity 4 doesn't use sprites) might be warranted. SharkD ( talk) 22:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
The docs for the video game FATE describe the perspective it uses as "Asymmetric view". The view is one where a perspective camera is placed somewhat distant, so that it "feels" sort of like the traditional "isometric" view. I think this is a neat term, as it highlights the differences between it and isometric perspective, while still remaining a single word (so that it's easy to remember). SharkD ( talk) 07:07, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Not sure whether this is worth mentioning in the article, but the Baldur's Gate series and The Temple of Elemental Evil use a rotation angle of 45 degrees from the horizontal instead of 35.264 degrees or 30 degrees. SharkD ( talk) 00:30, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
The "History" and "Limitations..." sections could just as well go into Parallel projection or Axonometric projection, as the material that is covered applies nearly equally to them as well. SharkD Talk 08:19, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
The way the article is set up now, the images are all displayed at a rather small size (instead of standard 220px thumbnail view). AnonMoos ( talk) 13:13, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
The caption on the first figure in the "History and limitations" section should state the the machine is an optical-grinding engine, not an optimal-grinding engine. Yes, the file name ("Optimal-grinding engine model.jpg") says it's an optimal-grinding engine, but the image description clearly states: "Optical-grinding engine model. This is perhaps the first machine drawing rendered in 30 degrees isometric." Also of note is that the original source uses "optical", not "optimal" (noted in the edit history for the image).
Oddly, this was fixed at one point but someone changed it back, evidently without stopping to consider what exactly an optimal-grinding engine would do (although I suppose some might consider "grind optimally" to be a plausible answer). 69.77.169.106 ( talk) 19:10, 12 June 2015 (UTC)
I think there is ...something wrong... with these images. Firstly, the axes are not labeled, so one cannot tell which is the x-axis, which is the y-axis, etc. Usually the x-axis is red, the y-axis is green and the z-axis is blue. Secondly, shouldn't you rotate first around the vertical axis by 45° and then the horizontal axis by arctan 1⁄√2? These images seem to do things in the wrong order. SharkD Talk 13:15, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Isometric graphics in video games and pixel art which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 11:46, 23 June 2018 (UTC)
The redirect
Isometric perspective has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 August 2 § Isometric perspective until a consensus is reached.
Jay
💬 13:17, 2 August 2023 (UTC)