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Copy edit for WP 0.7 completed save for fact tag for "home of the poet". I can find numerous other suggestions in e.g. Haswell-Smith, Hamish (2004). The Scottish Islands. Edinburgh: Canongate. ISBN 978-1-84195-454-7. I'll come back in a couple of days and change this unless a citation can be found. Ben Mac Dui 08:47, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
This article has a "myths and legends" section. I'd like to examine this for verifiability because of some doubts about sourcing.
Here is what it looks like at present:
Much of this isn't a lot of use. For instance, a family of werewolves, long deceased? In what century? Which island of Loch Langavat? For this kind of tale, I'd expect to find a reference to a collection of oral history or folklore, but there is nothing of the sort. Since I began to type this section I've noticed this posting on another site which echoes my own concerns about reliability.
Much of the sourcing seems to come from a website called The Paranormal Database. I've discussed this at the reliable sources noticeboard and the consensus is that as a self-published source it's not reliable. I am removing that section from the article as of now. If reliable sources can be obtained the information can be restored. -- TS 11:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Talking of Dr Who, I have a snippet about the "Phantom of the Seven Hunters". Although referring to a ghost that reputedly inhabited (inhabits?) the Flannan Isles, it is presumably a piece of folklore from, if not specifically about, Lewis. Ben Mac Dui 19:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I tweaked this but am not sure I understood correctly. Is "Heather Isle" = Lewis and Harris? Ben Mac Dui 19:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I now notice that the Collins Encyclopaedia of Scotland thinks leodhas means "marshy" too. Ben Mac Dui 19:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I tidied the section up a wee bit, putting the two candidate toponymy sources togther and apart from the (vastly earlier) mention by Ptolemy. Heather Isle, in my experience, is almost never used - but does tend to refer to Lewis & Harris together, yes. I'll check my placename books and sources for some consensus on the origin of Lewis. Personally, I prefer the Gaelic one - although I can see how it could have been reverse engineered quite recently from the Ptolemy reference. Lianachan ( talk) 22:25, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I notice that information on the heights of the hills has come from the 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. The list of Marilyns gives updated information for the same peaks, and appears to give the Gaelic spelling of the names:
Mealisval 574m 1883ft , Beinn Mhor 572m 1877ft [1]
At present, the wording reads:
"Compared to Harris, Lewis is relatively flat, save in the south-east, where Ben More reaches 1,874 ft (571 m), and in the south-west, where Mealasbhal at 1,885 ft (575 m) is the highest point"
Updated and with the above information this would read:
"Compared with Harris, Lewis is relatively flat, except in the south-west, where Mealisval, 574m (1,883ft), is the highest point, and in the south-east, where Beinn Mhor reaches 572m (1,877ft) "
As these figures are slightly different from that of the 1911 book it's probably better to go with the the more recent information. Michael Glass ( talk) 16:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
What precisely happened to the ownership of Lewis when Leverhulme died in 1925, and subsequently? The Lewis and Lever pages are not consistent. Grahamsands ( talk) 13:16, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Can I say just how completely bizarre and unexpected it is for Lewis to continue with "(Scottish Gaelic..." and be about a Scottish island? This page should be a disambig. — Felix the Cassowary 22:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 10 December 2012. The result of the move review was Close endorsed. |
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Cúchullain t/ c 15:05, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Lewis → Lewis, Outer Hebrides – There is such a huge long list of things and people called Lewis, that something would have to be extremely prominent to qualify as primary topic for this name. This region in Scotland is not. In fact, it is little-known outside Scotland, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of English and Irish people hadn't heard of it. As far as the non-primary nature of this name, there are ten towns in the United States named "Lewis", Note that the general practice of including state names with US place names provides no valid argument, since it doesn't make Boston a secondary topic, does it? Anyways, with so many Lewises in the world, this page should be a disambiguation page. Ego White Tray ( talk) 13:40, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Moved to
Isle of Lewis. There is clear consensus that the island is not the
WP:PTOPIC for 'Lewis', therefore a move is called for. There is no clear consensus whether "Isle of Lewis" is the best title – but it's certainly a reasonable one – so another RM can be invoked to determine the final destination.
Due to high number of incoming links, I will not immediately execute the move, but try to sort out the links first. If anyone would like to assist, it would be appreciated.
No such user (
talk)
07:14, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
– WP:ASTONISH I cannot imagine the average person who types in "Lewis" would expect to be taken here. Unlike Harris, the name of this place is Isle of Lewis, even though it is not technically an island in its own right. Google searches for "Lewis" (almost no results for the place in Scotland even from England), "Lewis, Scotland" and "Isle of Lewis" show that it is called Isle of Lewis in a generic context. Lewis (TV series) regularly gets more than double page views. The place is clearly the primary topic over the ship named after it so the hatnote to that would remain. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 11:53, 18 July 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasu よ! 16:55, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
If we must disambiguate (and I think that for best reader experience we should, but on current policy we should not) then Isle of Lewis is IMO the most recognizable option... quirky, but common and very Scottish. Andrewa ( talk) 10:27, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Per the closing statement that "There is no clear consensus whether "Isle of Lewis" is the best title", isn't it somewhat jumping the gun to make global changes to links already as if there were such consensus? Mutt Lunker ( talk) 10:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Per
WP:THREEOUTCOMES (a section of
WP:RMCI) There are rare circumstances where multiple names have been proposed and no consensus arises out of any, except that it is determined that the current title should not host the article. In these difficult circumstances, the closer should pick the best title of the options available, and then be clear that while consensus has rejected the former title (and no request to bring it back should be made lightly), there is no consensus for the title actually chosen.
I believe that there is clear consensus that "the current title should not host the article". My closing statement also addressed that "there is no consensus for the title actually chosen." and I picked "certainly a reasonable one" The facts that 1) there already existed 461 direct links to
Isle of Lewis 2)
WP:NATURAL is generally the preferred form of disambiguation and 3) "Isle of Lewis" was the proposed target, which was explicitly or silently supported by several posters, I think that my close was perfectly within letter and spirit of the rules.
"Global changes to links" I'm performing do not block any potential subsequent move, as the fixed links will continue to correctly point to
Isle of Lewis, whether it ends up as the main title or a redirect to another.
No such user (
talk)
11:15, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
I went ahead and executed the moves; most incoming links have been fixed by Crouch, Swale and myslelf. I believe I closed the discussion correctly and answered the concerns to the best of my ability; please start a WP:Move Review if you still disagree with the close. A new RM for this page is probably the best way forward if you find the current title inappropriate. No such user ( talk) 14:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm from Lewis, although the east side of the island. I've never heard of a place called "Clach na Thursa" in Carloway. Is this just my ignorance? Does it really exist? The name as it stands certainly doesn't fit the rules of Gaelic grammar, although maybe, of course, it comes from Old Norse. The only references I can find to "Clach na Thursa" on the internet are in pages which have clearly copied the list of monuments on this page; and a single one in a list on the Callanish Visitor Centre's site (who you would think would know what they're talking about) which gives no details other than the name.
Can anyone shed any light on this? And if "Clach na Thursa" does exist, what's its correct name in Gaelic? Ceud taing, Cailean99 ( talk) 17:41, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
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Copy edit for WP 0.7 completed save for fact tag for "home of the poet". I can find numerous other suggestions in e.g. Haswell-Smith, Hamish (2004). The Scottish Islands. Edinburgh: Canongate. ISBN 978-1-84195-454-7. I'll come back in a couple of days and change this unless a citation can be found. Ben Mac Dui 08:47, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
This article has a "myths and legends" section. I'd like to examine this for verifiability because of some doubts about sourcing.
Here is what it looks like at present:
Much of this isn't a lot of use. For instance, a family of werewolves, long deceased? In what century? Which island of Loch Langavat? For this kind of tale, I'd expect to find a reference to a collection of oral history or folklore, but there is nothing of the sort. Since I began to type this section I've noticed this posting on another site which echoes my own concerns about reliability.
Much of the sourcing seems to come from a website called The Paranormal Database. I've discussed this at the reliable sources noticeboard and the consensus is that as a self-published source it's not reliable. I am removing that section from the article as of now. If reliable sources can be obtained the information can be restored. -- TS 11:13, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Talking of Dr Who, I have a snippet about the "Phantom of the Seven Hunters". Although referring to a ghost that reputedly inhabited (inhabits?) the Flannan Isles, it is presumably a piece of folklore from, if not specifically about, Lewis. Ben Mac Dui 19:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I tweaked this but am not sure I understood correctly. Is "Heather Isle" = Lewis and Harris? Ben Mac Dui 19:41, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I now notice that the Collins Encyclopaedia of Scotland thinks leodhas means "marshy" too. Ben Mac Dui 19:52, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I tidied the section up a wee bit, putting the two candidate toponymy sources togther and apart from the (vastly earlier) mention by Ptolemy. Heather Isle, in my experience, is almost never used - but does tend to refer to Lewis & Harris together, yes. I'll check my placename books and sources for some consensus on the origin of Lewis. Personally, I prefer the Gaelic one - although I can see how it could have been reverse engineered quite recently from the Ptolemy reference. Lianachan ( talk) 22:25, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
I notice that information on the heights of the hills has come from the 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. The list of Marilyns gives updated information for the same peaks, and appears to give the Gaelic spelling of the names:
Mealisval 574m 1883ft , Beinn Mhor 572m 1877ft [1]
At present, the wording reads:
"Compared to Harris, Lewis is relatively flat, save in the south-east, where Ben More reaches 1,874 ft (571 m), and in the south-west, where Mealasbhal at 1,885 ft (575 m) is the highest point"
Updated and with the above information this would read:
"Compared with Harris, Lewis is relatively flat, except in the south-west, where Mealisval, 574m (1,883ft), is the highest point, and in the south-east, where Beinn Mhor reaches 572m (1,877ft) "
As these figures are slightly different from that of the 1911 book it's probably better to go with the the more recent information. Michael Glass ( talk) 16:42, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
What precisely happened to the ownership of Lewis when Leverhulme died in 1925, and subsequently? The Lewis and Lever pages are not consistent. Grahamsands ( talk) 13:16, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Can I say just how completely bizarre and unexpected it is for Lewis to continue with "(Scottish Gaelic..." and be about a Scottish island? This page should be a disambig. — Felix the Cassowary 22:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This discussion was listed at Wikipedia:Move review on 10 December 2012. The result of the move review was Close endorsed. |
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Cúchullain t/ c 15:05, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Lewis → Lewis, Outer Hebrides – There is such a huge long list of things and people called Lewis, that something would have to be extremely prominent to qualify as primary topic for this name. This region in Scotland is not. In fact, it is little-known outside Scotland, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of English and Irish people hadn't heard of it. As far as the non-primary nature of this name, there are ten towns in the United States named "Lewis", Note that the general practice of including state names with US place names provides no valid argument, since it doesn't make Boston a secondary topic, does it? Anyways, with so many Lewises in the world, this page should be a disambiguation page. Ego White Tray ( talk) 13:40, 26 November 2012 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: Moved to
Isle of Lewis. There is clear consensus that the island is not the
WP:PTOPIC for 'Lewis', therefore a move is called for. There is no clear consensus whether "Isle of Lewis" is the best title – but it's certainly a reasonable one – so another RM can be invoked to determine the final destination.
Due to high number of incoming links, I will not immediately execute the move, but try to sort out the links first. If anyone would like to assist, it would be appreciated.
No such user (
talk)
07:14, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
– WP:ASTONISH I cannot imagine the average person who types in "Lewis" would expect to be taken here. Unlike Harris, the name of this place is Isle of Lewis, even though it is not technically an island in its own right. Google searches for "Lewis" (almost no results for the place in Scotland even from England), "Lewis, Scotland" and "Isle of Lewis" show that it is called Isle of Lewis in a generic context. Lewis (TV series) regularly gets more than double page views. The place is clearly the primary topic over the ship named after it so the hatnote to that would remain. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 11:53, 18 July 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasu よ! 16:55, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
If we must disambiguate (and I think that for best reader experience we should, but on current policy we should not) then Isle of Lewis is IMO the most recognizable option... quirky, but common and very Scottish. Andrewa ( talk) 10:27, 26 July 2018 (UTC)
Per the closing statement that "There is no clear consensus whether "Isle of Lewis" is the best title", isn't it somewhat jumping the gun to make global changes to links already as if there were such consensus? Mutt Lunker ( talk) 10:26, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Per
WP:THREEOUTCOMES (a section of
WP:RMCI) There are rare circumstances where multiple names have been proposed and no consensus arises out of any, except that it is determined that the current title should not host the article. In these difficult circumstances, the closer should pick the best title of the options available, and then be clear that while consensus has rejected the former title (and no request to bring it back should be made lightly), there is no consensus for the title actually chosen.
I believe that there is clear consensus that "the current title should not host the article". My closing statement also addressed that "there is no consensus for the title actually chosen." and I picked "certainly a reasonable one" The facts that 1) there already existed 461 direct links to
Isle of Lewis 2)
WP:NATURAL is generally the preferred form of disambiguation and 3) "Isle of Lewis" was the proposed target, which was explicitly or silently supported by several posters, I think that my close was perfectly within letter and spirit of the rules.
"Global changes to links" I'm performing do not block any potential subsequent move, as the fixed links will continue to correctly point to
Isle of Lewis, whether it ends up as the main title or a redirect to another.
No such user (
talk)
11:15, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
I went ahead and executed the moves; most incoming links have been fixed by Crouch, Swale and myslelf. I believe I closed the discussion correctly and answered the concerns to the best of my ability; please start a WP:Move Review if you still disagree with the close. A new RM for this page is probably the best way forward if you find the current title inappropriate. No such user ( talk) 14:30, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
I'm from Lewis, although the east side of the island. I've never heard of a place called "Clach na Thursa" in Carloway. Is this just my ignorance? Does it really exist? The name as it stands certainly doesn't fit the rules of Gaelic grammar, although maybe, of course, it comes from Old Norse. The only references I can find to "Clach na Thursa" on the internet are in pages which have clearly copied the list of monuments on this page; and a single one in a list on the Callanish Visitor Centre's site (who you would think would know what they're talking about) which gives no details other than the name.
Can anyone shed any light on this? And if "Clach na Thursa" does exist, what's its correct name in Gaelic? Ceud taing, Cailean99 ( talk) 17:41, 26 May 2020 (UTC)