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The image shown at the top is that of Isis, the (New Kingdom?) Egyptian goddess. But Isis has been a goddess and then an allegorical figure for good 2000-3000 years beyond, during which time she was not represented nor thought of as the original Egyptian Isis. May I thus suggest that the picture be replaced with a composite of perhaps 4 or 6 pictures showing various representations of Isis, e.g. one or two showing the original Egyptian Isis, another for the Roman or Greek one and finally one or two more recent ones, an 18th century or modern veiled Isis as a figure of nature (see the Wiki article on World War II for the kind of composite I have in mind). This would enable the reader to immediately identify the kind of representation to expect. The Isis you can see in the fountains of Paris or US statues looks nothing like the one from the Egyptian tombs and temples after all. In this respect, Isis is pretty special, contrary to other Egyptian divinities, she not just an Egyptian goddess and so I believe she should not be exclusively presented as such in the introductory image. Iry-Hor ( talk) 07:40, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
"Thus, like Hathor, she sometimes took the form of Imentet, the goddess of the west, who welcomed the deceased soul into the afterlife as her child.[27] But for much of Egyptian history, male deities like Osiris were believed to provide the regenerative powers, including sexual potency, that were crucial for rebirth. Isis merely assisted by stimulating this power.[26] "
This wording supports a patriarchal value system that is not a necessary interpertation of the myth. Could it not be even more accurate and less biased to value the masculine if stated something more like this?
""Thus, like Hathor, she sometimes took the form of Imentet, the goddess of the west, who welcomed the deceased soul into the afterlife as her child.[27] But for much of Egyptian history, male deities like Osiris were believed to provide the regenerative powers, including sexual potency, that were crucial for rebirth while Isis was a catalyst for stimulating this power.[26] "
This language gives Isis a more empowered role. Using wording like "merely assisted" downplays Isis' role and by extension downplays the female sexual/maternal contribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.52.143.123 ( talk) 23:35, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Isis provided sexual excitement, but it was Osiris who essentially raised himself from the dead. Isis created the enclosure for Osiris's rebirth—his mummy wrappings—and she acted as the vessel for the conception of his son, Horus. But Isis was not thought to bring Osiris back to life; instead, she manifested a situation in which he could bring himself back to life… In the same Osirian-solar mythologies of rebirth and creation, the female element took on the role of aggressive protector, helper, and empty vessel. Although the goddesses Isis, Nut, and Hathor excited the male with feminine presence, provided sustenance, protected him from harm, reconstituted his shape, and contained him in a womb, they were not believed to be responsible for the spark of creation that gave new life." (pp. 227–228)
plz accept and what is Isis the god of — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:7D30:FFD0:35F9:5576:6BFC:C24D ( talk) 21:44, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
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hi i was wondering if i can edit bc i have new info on isis that no one knows about MR.HACKERZ ( talk) 21:11, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
@ TheLateDentarthurdent: The list of names and pronunciations in the lead sentence is a bit long. I think it's important to be concise with this kind of thing, as we don't want to put off readers in the first sentence they read. Moreover, the alternate transcription (jst) and the reconstructed pronunciations aren't well supported by the cited source, Quack 2018. Quack only transcribes the name as ꜣst and does not mention jst. He also says "The sound transcribed by Egyptologists as ꜣ is likely to have had an original pronunciation as r or l", which indicates that it hasn't been precisely identified, so rendering it with a specific IPA consonant, such as ʀ, is going beyond the sources. Given the uncertain nature of linguistic reconstructions, I think it safer not to include a phonetic rendering of the ancient Egyptian at all. Thus, I propose a lead sentence that begins: "Isis (Ancient Egyptian: ꜣst; Coptic: Ⲏⲥⲉ Ēse; Classical Greek: Ἶσις Isis; Meroitic: Wusa) was a major goddess…" A. Parrot ( talk) 04:13, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
@ TheLateDentarthurdent: I keep meaning to ask this. What is the source for the Meroitic spellings used in the infobox and the lead sentence? A. Parrot ( talk) 04:35, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
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Could you add a comma after "Texts" in the phrase "In many spells in the Pyramid Texts Isis and Nephthys help the deceased king reach the afterlife"? 208.95.51.53 ( talk) 14:32, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
was a big cat person — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.75.64.210 ( talk) 16:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
I think the relation between Isis and the vulture as a sacred bird should be addressed; it's mentioned elsewhere on Wikipedia so it's strange to find no mention of it here.
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In the introduction, please remove
slain husband, the divine king Osiris
and add
slain brother-husband, the divine king Osiris
Since her relationship with Osiris is highly important, it seems important to mention in the intro that they're depicted as siblings as well as as spouses. No source is needed because this is covered by a sourced statement in the "Wife and mourner" section. 2600:1003:B84E:309D:10AD:5B55:ABD8:1A6F ( talk) 21:31, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
This picture is inaccurate!! She was a black woman! 2600:1700:1240:13A0:C863:21C2:2FD:9588 ( talk) 21:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Interestingly, I've noticed some hesitation around embracing the well-documented connection between Isis and what's popularly referred to as her 'equivalent,' Inanna. It's almost as if this enlightening piece of information is waiting patiently on the sidelines, eager for its turn to be acknowledged. Now, I wouldn't want to disrupt the status quo or ruffle any feathers by pointing out what seems to be an open secret among those who have done their homework. But, wouldn't it be something if we all arrived at this understanding, unambiguously clear, yet seemingly elusive to some? Of course, the readiness to embrace such insights varies, and it’s utterly fascinating to see who’s up for a deeper dive and who prefers the comfort of the surface. It's all in good faith, though—sharing, learning, and sometimes, gently nudging our collective awareness towards the richer nuances of our shared heritage. After all, it's only a matter of time before these connections become impossible to ignore. Until then, let's enjoy the dance of disclosure at its own pace, shall we?
| equivalent1 = Ishtar | equivalent1_type = Mesopotamian | equivalent2 = Inanna | equivalent2_type = Sumerian | equivalent3 = Ishara | equivalent3_type = Hurrian | equivalent4 = Astarte | equivalent4_type = Egyptian | equivalent5 = Astarte | equivalent5_type = Egyptian/Canaanite | equivalent6 = Freya | equivalent6_type = Norse
![]() | Isis is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 12, 2018. | |||||||||
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Isis article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the
Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened:
|
![]() |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The image shown at the top is that of Isis, the (New Kingdom?) Egyptian goddess. But Isis has been a goddess and then an allegorical figure for good 2000-3000 years beyond, during which time she was not represented nor thought of as the original Egyptian Isis. May I thus suggest that the picture be replaced with a composite of perhaps 4 or 6 pictures showing various representations of Isis, e.g. one or two showing the original Egyptian Isis, another for the Roman or Greek one and finally one or two more recent ones, an 18th century or modern veiled Isis as a figure of nature (see the Wiki article on World War II for the kind of composite I have in mind). This would enable the reader to immediately identify the kind of representation to expect. The Isis you can see in the fountains of Paris or US statues looks nothing like the one from the Egyptian tombs and temples after all. In this respect, Isis is pretty special, contrary to other Egyptian divinities, she not just an Egyptian goddess and so I believe she should not be exclusively presented as such in the introductory image. Iry-Hor ( talk) 07:40, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
"Thus, like Hathor, she sometimes took the form of Imentet, the goddess of the west, who welcomed the deceased soul into the afterlife as her child.[27] But for much of Egyptian history, male deities like Osiris were believed to provide the regenerative powers, including sexual potency, that were crucial for rebirth. Isis merely assisted by stimulating this power.[26] "
This wording supports a patriarchal value system that is not a necessary interpertation of the myth. Could it not be even more accurate and less biased to value the masculine if stated something more like this?
""Thus, like Hathor, she sometimes took the form of Imentet, the goddess of the west, who welcomed the deceased soul into the afterlife as her child.[27] But for much of Egyptian history, male deities like Osiris were believed to provide the regenerative powers, including sexual potency, that were crucial for rebirth while Isis was a catalyst for stimulating this power.[26] "
This language gives Isis a more empowered role. Using wording like "merely assisted" downplays Isis' role and by extension downplays the female sexual/maternal contribution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.52.143.123 ( talk) 23:35, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
Isis provided sexual excitement, but it was Osiris who essentially raised himself from the dead. Isis created the enclosure for Osiris's rebirth—his mummy wrappings—and she acted as the vessel for the conception of his son, Horus. But Isis was not thought to bring Osiris back to life; instead, she manifested a situation in which he could bring himself back to life… In the same Osirian-solar mythologies of rebirth and creation, the female element took on the role of aggressive protector, helper, and empty vessel. Although the goddesses Isis, Nut, and Hathor excited the male with feminine presence, provided sustenance, protected him from harm, reconstituted his shape, and contained him in a womb, they were not believed to be responsible for the spark of creation that gave new life." (pp. 227–228)
plz accept and what is Isis the god of — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:7D30:FFD0:35F9:5576:6BFC:C24D ( talk) 21:44, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
hi i was wondering if i can edit bc i have new info on isis that no one knows about MR.HACKERZ ( talk) 21:11, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
@ TheLateDentarthurdent: The list of names and pronunciations in the lead sentence is a bit long. I think it's important to be concise with this kind of thing, as we don't want to put off readers in the first sentence they read. Moreover, the alternate transcription (jst) and the reconstructed pronunciations aren't well supported by the cited source, Quack 2018. Quack only transcribes the name as ꜣst and does not mention jst. He also says "The sound transcribed by Egyptologists as ꜣ is likely to have had an original pronunciation as r or l", which indicates that it hasn't been precisely identified, so rendering it with a specific IPA consonant, such as ʀ, is going beyond the sources. Given the uncertain nature of linguistic reconstructions, I think it safer not to include a phonetic rendering of the ancient Egyptian at all. Thus, I propose a lead sentence that begins: "Isis (Ancient Egyptian: ꜣst; Coptic: Ⲏⲥⲉ Ēse; Classical Greek: Ἶσις Isis; Meroitic: Wusa) was a major goddess…" A. Parrot ( talk) 04:13, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
@ TheLateDentarthurdent: I keep meaning to ask this. What is the source for the Meroitic spellings used in the infobox and the lead sentence? A. Parrot ( talk) 04:35, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Could you add a comma after "Texts" in the phrase "In many spells in the Pyramid Texts Isis and Nephthys help the deceased king reach the afterlife"? 208.95.51.53 ( talk) 14:32, 15 November 2019 (UTC)
was a big cat person — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.75.64.210 ( talk) 16:00, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
I think the relation between Isis and the vulture as a sacred bird should be addressed; it's mentioned elsewhere on Wikipedia so it's strange to find no mention of it here.
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the introduction, please remove
slain husband, the divine king Osiris
and add
slain brother-husband, the divine king Osiris
Since her relationship with Osiris is highly important, it seems important to mention in the intro that they're depicted as siblings as well as as spouses. No source is needed because this is covered by a sourced statement in the "Wife and mourner" section. 2600:1003:B84E:309D:10AD:5B55:ABD8:1A6F ( talk) 21:31, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
This picture is inaccurate!! She was a black woman! 2600:1700:1240:13A0:C863:21C2:2FD:9588 ( talk) 21:00, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
Interestingly, I've noticed some hesitation around embracing the well-documented connection between Isis and what's popularly referred to as her 'equivalent,' Inanna. It's almost as if this enlightening piece of information is waiting patiently on the sidelines, eager for its turn to be acknowledged. Now, I wouldn't want to disrupt the status quo or ruffle any feathers by pointing out what seems to be an open secret among those who have done their homework. But, wouldn't it be something if we all arrived at this understanding, unambiguously clear, yet seemingly elusive to some? Of course, the readiness to embrace such insights varies, and it’s utterly fascinating to see who’s up for a deeper dive and who prefers the comfort of the surface. It's all in good faith, though—sharing, learning, and sometimes, gently nudging our collective awareness towards the richer nuances of our shared heritage. After all, it's only a matter of time before these connections become impossible to ignore. Until then, let's enjoy the dance of disclosure at its own pace, shall we?
| equivalent1 = Ishtar | equivalent1_type = Mesopotamian | equivalent2 = Inanna | equivalent2_type = Sumerian | equivalent3 = Ishara | equivalent3_type = Hurrian | equivalent4 = Astarte | equivalent4_type = Egyptian | equivalent5 = Astarte | equivalent5_type = Egyptian/Canaanite | equivalent6 = Freya | equivalent6_type = Norse