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Archive 1 |
While Dr. Hall is a notable researcher and skeptic, the inclusion of this feels more like it is included because of her notability. As it relates to the subject, the original article is from 2006, and does not mention exactly which products contain, "dangerous amounts of vitamin A." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danzigland ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
I would agree - the foundation of this article seems to be more of a whitewashed consumer warning than anything else. No mention is made of their work with either ChildHelp or Make-a-Wish, for example. I think a re-write is in order. ( talk) 16:42, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I've added in information on two peer reviewed publications of the University of Chicago study by Kroeger et al. There are two more studies that have been completed and are awaiting publication which I'll update as soon as details are available. I like Jonddunn's suggestion to add an 'Isagenix Claims' section and separate out the Critiques of the system to a different section Jamie Stott ( talk) 12:05, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I have reverted the addition of some information in charitable donations, mainly because the first source is barely adequate but leaves much to be desired. It says that "Isagenix associates in the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, Australia and New Zealand may make tax-deductible donations to Make-A-Wish to impact young lives in their own communities." Excuse me? Isn't this true of everybody, 'associate' or not? This kind of puff throws the article's status as a secondary source into question. It also fails to mention in what ways the company is partnering with Make a Wish, or how much money they have raised. The second source is merely a press release republished without additional commentary or verification, and is inappropriate. Grayfell ( talk) 20:29, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
I will see what else I can dig up on their charity work to rework this addition. Thanks for the feedback! Danzigland ( talk) 20:58, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
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Almost every fact on this page is inaccurate and/or out of date for example, the associate count is wrong, the sales amount is wrong, Jim Coover's title is wrong, the dates our international markets launched is incorrect, the business model is direct sales not multi level marketing, we do not sell cosmetics, the Harriet Hall & Consumer Choice Organization sources are outdated and inaccurate. Please advise Melizdean ( talk) 04:37, 21 March 2017 (UTC)Megan
@Grayfell there are many company facts that are incorrect as noted above. The only reason I linked to business for home is because there isn't anything else out there besides our website and you told me I couldn't cite that. Also, the direct sales business model is the least of my worries. There is so much basic company information that is incorrect and misleading. Anyway, I will get with my legal and compliance team to address. Thanks for your help. Melizdean ( talk) 05:10, 21 March 2017 (UTC)Megan
Thanks. Here are the items I will be addressing. Since we are a private company, there are unfortunately not very many independent sources available.
Employee count this is NOT 200 it's 1,000 -
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/network-marketing-company/newsroom/2016/press-release-isagenix-achieves-4-billion
Customer count -
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/network-marketing-company/newsroom/2016/press-release-isagenix-achieves-4-billion
Company sales amount -
http://directsellingnews.com/index.php/view/2016_dsn_global_100_list#.V05uNZMrJE4
Jim Coover's title -
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/network-marketing-company/founders
date our international markets launched (this is an internal document I can't link to, but here is this
http://anz.isafyi.com/get-exclusive-10-year-anniversary-jersey/)
we do not sell cosmetics, we sell skin care products
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/products/rejuvity
Harriet Hall - need to consult my legal and compliance team on this one
Consumer Choice Organization - need to consult my legal and compliance team on this one
Melizdean (
talk)
05:42, 21 March 2017 (UTC)Megan
200 (2013)for example. That would still be better than nothing.
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Study performed to test Isagenix products in relation to health through WP:RS.
In a study done conducted at the University of Illinois at Chicago and funded by Isagenix, it was found that intermittent fasting combined with calorie restriction in the form of liquid meal replacements is effective for weight loss and cardio-protection in obese women. The study was conducted in two phases. A two-week phase weight maintenance phase, and an eight-week weight loss phase. One group consumed a standard ‘heart healthy’ diet for six days a week, and the other IsaLean Shakes. The group that consumed the IsaLean Shakes had a 56% greater reduction in average weight loss, 47% greater reduction in average body fat loss, and twice as much visceral fat loss. [1]
In another study conducted at Skidmore College and funded by Isagenix, researchers found that combining a system of ‘Shake Days’ and ‘Cleanse Days’ with the use of Isagenix products improve body composition and contribute to better heart health during weight loss. After the initial weight loss, the subjects who continued to use Isagenix products had significantly improved weight maintenance and body composition. [2] [3]
A study, sponsored by Isagenix, was published in 2016, and was the first to demonstrate that physically active women who used Isagenix products for increased protein while engaging in exercise enhanced their muscular endurance, strength, power, and cardiovascular health. In the study, the two groups of 30 randomized women were seperated into a control group, and a PRISE group (protein pacing, resistance, interval, stretching, endurance training). Both groups engaged in a RISE exercise training protocol to improve multiple aspects of performance. [4] Zeelyone ( talk) 13:34, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
References
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help)
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help)
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: Missing or empty |title=
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help)
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help)
There are multiple occasions where this source shows up on the page. I have read into WP:EXPERTSOURCE and I understand keeping the page WP:NPOV. I still don't understand how a source that may as well be a blog post sponsored by one committee is acceptable. Harriet Hall is an ex surgeon, and you could argue she is an expert in the field, but the site used to display her thoughts is not reliable. Zeelyone ( talk) 20:07, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Material is not important enough to belong in the summary of the company. Zeelyone ( talk) 14:49, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
The article currently lists a number of countries in the "areas served" section of the corporate infobox. The entry is currently unsourced. The only source that I could find that pertains to this detail is a company fact sheet which refers to having an "independent network of associates" in 18 countries. [14]
That seems pretty weak, as it's self-published for one but also because it's vague. It doesn't refer to having corporate offices in those countries; merely that they have MLM distributors in those countries, which is trivial. In fact, this company press release explains that they don't have offices in Belgium and Spain but rather that the products are available in those countries via the London UK office. [15]. Again, weak. I think we need a WP:RS to back this up and can't base the claim solely on the vague details the company has provided to date, as it borders on being WP:PROMO. There's no evidence that the company is authorized to sell in any many of the countries listed.
Also, I checked the infobox for IBM for guidance, and it simply lists the number of countries where the company does business -- it doesn't name each of them individually -- and it provides a secondary WP:RS to back it up. Unless someone can come up with better sourcing, this issue will require some chopping in the infobox and elsewhere. Rhode Island Red ( talk) 15:25, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi @ Grayfell: the source used for this info comes from a highly credible journal, and at the bottom of the study results, you will note that there is no COI between the results and Isagenix. "Dr. Eric Gumpricht is Director of Research and Science at Isagenix International LLC. Dr. Gumpricht was not involved in the collection, analyses, or interpretation of data. All other authors report no conflicts of interest." The results were not affected by Isagenix. Zeelyone ( talk) 16:36, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
While Dr. Hall is a notable researcher and skeptic, the inclusion of this feels more like it is included because of her notability. As it relates to the subject, the original article is from 2006, and does not mention exactly which products contain, "dangerous amounts of vitamin A." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danzigland ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
I would agree - the foundation of this article seems to be more of a whitewashed consumer warning than anything else. No mention is made of their work with either ChildHelp or Make-a-Wish, for example. I think a re-write is in order. ( talk) 16:42, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
I've added in information on two peer reviewed publications of the University of Chicago study by Kroeger et al. There are two more studies that have been completed and are awaiting publication which I'll update as soon as details are available. I like Jonddunn's suggestion to add an 'Isagenix Claims' section and separate out the Critiques of the system to a different section Jamie Stott ( talk) 12:05, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
I have reverted the addition of some information in charitable donations, mainly because the first source is barely adequate but leaves much to be desired. It says that "Isagenix associates in the United States, Canada, Puerto Rico, Australia and New Zealand may make tax-deductible donations to Make-A-Wish to impact young lives in their own communities." Excuse me? Isn't this true of everybody, 'associate' or not? This kind of puff throws the article's status as a secondary source into question. It also fails to mention in what ways the company is partnering with Make a Wish, or how much money they have raised. The second source is merely a press release republished without additional commentary or verification, and is inappropriate. Grayfell ( talk) 20:29, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
I will see what else I can dig up on their charity work to rework this addition. Thanks for the feedback! Danzigland ( talk) 20:58, 19 March 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:08, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
Almost every fact on this page is inaccurate and/or out of date for example, the associate count is wrong, the sales amount is wrong, Jim Coover's title is wrong, the dates our international markets launched is incorrect, the business model is direct sales not multi level marketing, we do not sell cosmetics, the Harriet Hall & Consumer Choice Organization sources are outdated and inaccurate. Please advise Melizdean ( talk) 04:37, 21 March 2017 (UTC)Megan
@Grayfell there are many company facts that are incorrect as noted above. The only reason I linked to business for home is because there isn't anything else out there besides our website and you told me I couldn't cite that. Also, the direct sales business model is the least of my worries. There is so much basic company information that is incorrect and misleading. Anyway, I will get with my legal and compliance team to address. Thanks for your help. Melizdean ( talk) 05:10, 21 March 2017 (UTC)Megan
Thanks. Here are the items I will be addressing. Since we are a private company, there are unfortunately not very many independent sources available.
Employee count this is NOT 200 it's 1,000 -
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/network-marketing-company/newsroom/2016/press-release-isagenix-achieves-4-billion
Customer count -
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/network-marketing-company/newsroom/2016/press-release-isagenix-achieves-4-billion
Company sales amount -
http://directsellingnews.com/index.php/view/2016_dsn_global_100_list#.V05uNZMrJE4
Jim Coover's title -
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/network-marketing-company/founders
date our international markets launched (this is an internal document I can't link to, but here is this
http://anz.isafyi.com/get-exclusive-10-year-anniversary-jersey/)
we do not sell cosmetics, we sell skin care products
http://www.isagenix.com/en-US/products/rejuvity
Harriet Hall - need to consult my legal and compliance team on this one
Consumer Choice Organization - need to consult my legal and compliance team on this one
Melizdean (
talk)
05:42, 21 March 2017 (UTC)Megan
200 (2013)for example. That would still be better than nothing.
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Isagenix International. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:16, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Study performed to test Isagenix products in relation to health through WP:RS.
In a study done conducted at the University of Illinois at Chicago and funded by Isagenix, it was found that intermittent fasting combined with calorie restriction in the form of liquid meal replacements is effective for weight loss and cardio-protection in obese women. The study was conducted in two phases. A two-week phase weight maintenance phase, and an eight-week weight loss phase. One group consumed a standard ‘heart healthy’ diet for six days a week, and the other IsaLean Shakes. The group that consumed the IsaLean Shakes had a 56% greater reduction in average weight loss, 47% greater reduction in average body fat loss, and twice as much visceral fat loss. [1]
In another study conducted at Skidmore College and funded by Isagenix, researchers found that combining a system of ‘Shake Days’ and ‘Cleanse Days’ with the use of Isagenix products improve body composition and contribute to better heart health during weight loss. After the initial weight loss, the subjects who continued to use Isagenix products had significantly improved weight maintenance and body composition. [2] [3]
A study, sponsored by Isagenix, was published in 2016, and was the first to demonstrate that physically active women who used Isagenix products for increased protein while engaging in exercise enhanced their muscular endurance, strength, power, and cardiovascular health. In the study, the two groups of 30 randomized women were seperated into a control group, and a PRISE group (protein pacing, resistance, interval, stretching, endurance training). Both groups engaged in a RISE exercise training protocol to improve multiple aspects of performance. [4] Zeelyone ( talk) 13:34, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
References
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
{{
cite web}}
: Missing or empty |title=
(
help)
There are multiple occasions where this source shows up on the page. I have read into WP:EXPERTSOURCE and I understand keeping the page WP:NPOV. I still don't understand how a source that may as well be a blog post sponsored by one committee is acceptable. Harriet Hall is an ex surgeon, and you could argue she is an expert in the field, but the site used to display her thoughts is not reliable. Zeelyone ( talk) 20:07, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Material is not important enough to belong in the summary of the company. Zeelyone ( talk) 14:49, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
The article currently lists a number of countries in the "areas served" section of the corporate infobox. The entry is currently unsourced. The only source that I could find that pertains to this detail is a company fact sheet which refers to having an "independent network of associates" in 18 countries. [14]
That seems pretty weak, as it's self-published for one but also because it's vague. It doesn't refer to having corporate offices in those countries; merely that they have MLM distributors in those countries, which is trivial. In fact, this company press release explains that they don't have offices in Belgium and Spain but rather that the products are available in those countries via the London UK office. [15]. Again, weak. I think we need a WP:RS to back this up and can't base the claim solely on the vague details the company has provided to date, as it borders on being WP:PROMO. There's no evidence that the company is authorized to sell in any many of the countries listed.
Also, I checked the infobox for IBM for guidance, and it simply lists the number of countries where the company does business -- it doesn't name each of them individually -- and it provides a secondary WP:RS to back it up. Unless someone can come up with better sourcing, this issue will require some chopping in the infobox and elsewhere. Rhode Island Red ( talk) 15:25, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Hi @ Grayfell: the source used for this info comes from a highly credible journal, and at the bottom of the study results, you will note that there is no COI between the results and Isagenix. "Dr. Eric Gumpricht is Director of Research and Science at Isagenix International LLC. Dr. Gumpricht was not involved in the collection, analyses, or interpretation of data. All other authors report no conflicts of interest." The results were not affected by Isagenix. Zeelyone ( talk) 16:36, 10 December 2018 (UTC)