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The ICIJ investigation into dos Santos and details about it can be found here - https://www.icij.org/investigations/luanda-leaks/ 194.86.38.38 ( talk) 09:52, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
All information provided in this article are of best of knowledge and from absolute reliable sources.-- Cruks ( talk) 18:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, most welcome improvements & updates. -- Aflis ( talk) 17:14, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
One editor of this page does an excellent work in providing detailed information about Isabel Dos Santos, but seems determined to portray her as manipulative, and piggy-backing on her father's position to rule over business in Angola and overseas. Some sentences are cleverly turned to lead the reader into adopting this opinion, at the expense of Wikipedia's NPOV rule. Here are a few of those sentences that I am removing from the article, and expecting a good reason before putting it back in the article:
--> The opinion of a few journalists should not determine the personality of the person
--> No source, opinionated
--> Not mentioned in associated source
--> link broken, no other source, indirect way to associate Dos Santos with the dirty Angolagate affair
--> useless, biased
-- Rubyface ( talk) 15:09, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
The opinionated content goes pretty far, but the sources are lacking. The "concerns" paragraph doesn't fit Wikipedia's rules for a few reasons:
Concerns: The remarkable growth of the Angolan businesswoman in Portuguese communications sector has led to a position of concern in the
Lusitanian media. Newspapers expressed discontent with the latest transactions in 2012. According to some editorial, the operation can lead to a
monopoly in some areas of the
media business by centralizing Angola and Portugal. Moreover, Isabel dos Santos was also accused of
political bias, such as
inside information and contacts in Portugal.
[1] It seems a clear strategy of Isabel dos Santos in the Portuguese economy. Over the past three years (2009-2012) her share has increased
exponentially. The sectors that draw attention are the communication and the
financial system. Both activities are the investment priorities in of her own companies in Angola and abroad. Isabel dos Santos, currently one of the greatest entrepreneurs of her country, expands its business to
Europe without
diversifying the industries it serves. The concern of Portuguese economic agents can be justified by the recent wave of the Angolan businesswoman.
[2]
-- Rubyface ( talk) 15:21, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Examples of problems:
@Rubyface: I agree that this paragraph, and indeed the whole warticle, should be rewritten. As to sources, most of the reliable ones are in Portuguese, so this canno be helped. -- Aflis ( talk) 16:14, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Same as mentioned above, this section is merely intended to portray Dos Santos as the daughter of an evil family that steals Angola's wealth. While this may be true, it needs a more neutral way to talk about it, as well as more solid sources. For the information of the author of this section, in English, a resume is a curriculum vitae, the document on which one details his work experiences when looking for a job (and it is not a summary). Wikipedia never has a "summary" section. Also, the source cited (golemxiv.co.uk) is very weak, so this part requires more solid sources before it can appear on this page.
Resume: Since her father José Eduardo dos Santos in 1979 took 'Presidency' of Angola at time, he and his family have amassed a business empire estimated to be worth at least €1.5 billion (US$ 2 billion) by mid 2012, while the people of Angola live in poverty despite the billions in revenue from Angola’s oil and other mineral riches, while the bank she owns 19 % of, the
Banco Português de Investimento, is about to get a
€1.5 billion
bailout from the Portuguese
tax payer.
[1]
-- Rubyface ( talk) 15:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I am asking for semiprotection of this article. Cruks ( talk) 15:15, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Do you know that spreading lies is not allowed? This may lead to you to be banned. Zorglub ( talk) 23:41, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
José Eduardo dos Santos married Tatiana Kukanova during his study in Baku. TK is however not from Azerbaijan, but a Russian born in Russia. Isabel dos Santos is the only child of the couple which separated soon after José Eduardo dos Santos' return to Angola. TK then went to London where Isabel dos Santos studied. She still lives in London, and an unconfirmned information has is that she married a British citizen. -- Aflis ( talk) 22:02, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
@TStanislav: I'm sorry, but from what you say I must conclude that you are quite unfamiliar with Angola. José Eduardo dos Santos has married three times, and has children from each wife. All together are considered as what anthropologists call an extensive family. All of his wives are considered notable figures. -- Aflis ( talk) 16:16, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
Here's a WP:RS that was checked for libel by Forbes' editors and lawyers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2013/08/14/how-isabel-dos-santos-took-the-short-route-to-become-africas-richest-woman/ Forbes 8/14/2013 This story appears in the September 2, 2013 issue of Forbes. Daddy's Girl: How An African 'Princess' Banked $3 Billion In A Country Living On $2 A Day By Kerry A. Dolan and Rafael Marques de Morais
-- Nbauman ( talk) 23:14, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Why does this wiki article about Isabel dos Santos always refer to Isabel dos Santos by Isabel dos Santos' full name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.87.97 ( talk) 11:18, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
That's what this Forbes article suggests: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2013/08/14/how-isabel-dos-santos-took-the-short-route-to-become-africas-richest-woman/ -- 105.237.38.155 ( talk) 17:08, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
You can't have it both ways: citing Forbes in the lede section as a source for saying she's worth $3 billion and the richest woman in Africa, while ignoring (or burying in the bizarrely-titled "Opinions" section) the fact that this same magazine performed an extensive examination of her assets and found every aspect of them tied at its origins to her father's kleptocratic and authoritarian regime. I realize XavierD75, as a proud Angolan "businessman" and "dandy", has a strong personal interest in this subject and is keen that the unpleasant fallout of the Forbes article be minimized, and I'm sure Ms. dos Santos, with her strong investments in PR stories of legitimization, feels the same way. But per WP:LEAD it is appropriate that the lead section summarize the subject and article's contents, which include the origins of Ms. dos Santos's fortune. We do use the word "alleged", of course. After all, who is to say that Isabel dos Santos didn't struggle and make it all on her own, like any other hard-working Angolan?!?
XavierD75, please weigh in here before making another revert. Thank you. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:57, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Isabel dos Santos. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
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dead link}}
tag to
http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/empresas/fusoes___aquisicoes/fusao_zon_optimus/detalhe/isabel_dos_santos_comparece_a_ag_da_zon_optimus.html,When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:13, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
To read about new developments, see article in The Times and add it to the content. Thanks. Tokota ( talk) 08:53, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
New information, not sure where it should go though
Thanks
John Cummings ( talk) 20:08, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
This article says she attended Cobham Hall School, Kent; and she's also listed among the school's alumnae in its dedicated article (in both cases unsourced). However, in this edit, an IP has added dos Santos to the list of old girls of St Paul's Girls' School, with a reference to the not-unreliable but far from neutral website of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists [1]. She may, of course, have attended both schools. Can anyone sort this out, and make the articles compatible? GrindtXX ( talk) 13:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
I find the current subsections dividing her life geographically need overhaul- The chronology is lost, and a lot of sentences dont contain dates and are 10 years old. Wuerzele ( talk) 10:47, 30 November 2022 (UTC)
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is the subject of a request emailed to the
Volunteer Response Team (VRT). Issues identified are: Excessive personally identifiable information and/or biographical details irrelevant to the subject's notability. |
The ICIJ investigation into dos Santos and details about it can be found here - https://www.icij.org/investigations/luanda-leaks/ 194.86.38.38 ( talk) 09:52, 20 January 2020 (UTC)
All information provided in this article are of best of knowledge and from absolute reliable sources.-- Cruks ( talk) 18:07, 18 March 2011 (UTC)
Ok, most welcome improvements & updates. -- Aflis ( talk) 17:14, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
One editor of this page does an excellent work in providing detailed information about Isabel Dos Santos, but seems determined to portray her as manipulative, and piggy-backing on her father's position to rule over business in Angola and overseas. Some sentences are cleverly turned to lead the reader into adopting this opinion, at the expense of Wikipedia's NPOV rule. Here are a few of those sentences that I am removing from the article, and expecting a good reason before putting it back in the article:
--> The opinion of a few journalists should not determine the personality of the person
--> No source, opinionated
--> Not mentioned in associated source
--> link broken, no other source, indirect way to associate Dos Santos with the dirty Angolagate affair
--> useless, biased
-- Rubyface ( talk) 15:09, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
The opinionated content goes pretty far, but the sources are lacking. The "concerns" paragraph doesn't fit Wikipedia's rules for a few reasons:
Concerns: The remarkable growth of the Angolan businesswoman in Portuguese communications sector has led to a position of concern in the
Lusitanian media. Newspapers expressed discontent with the latest transactions in 2012. According to some editorial, the operation can lead to a
monopoly in some areas of the
media business by centralizing Angola and Portugal. Moreover, Isabel dos Santos was also accused of
political bias, such as
inside information and contacts in Portugal.
[1] It seems a clear strategy of Isabel dos Santos in the Portuguese economy. Over the past three years (2009-2012) her share has increased
exponentially. The sectors that draw attention are the communication and the
financial system. Both activities are the investment priorities in of her own companies in Angola and abroad. Isabel dos Santos, currently one of the greatest entrepreneurs of her country, expands its business to
Europe without
diversifying the industries it serves. The concern of Portuguese economic agents can be justified by the recent wave of the Angolan businesswoman.
[2]
-- Rubyface ( talk) 15:21, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Examples of problems:
@Rubyface: I agree that this paragraph, and indeed the whole warticle, should be rewritten. As to sources, most of the reliable ones are in Portuguese, so this canno be helped. -- Aflis ( talk) 16:14, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Same as mentioned above, this section is merely intended to portray Dos Santos as the daughter of an evil family that steals Angola's wealth. While this may be true, it needs a more neutral way to talk about it, as well as more solid sources. For the information of the author of this section, in English, a resume is a curriculum vitae, the document on which one details his work experiences when looking for a job (and it is not a summary). Wikipedia never has a "summary" section. Also, the source cited (golemxiv.co.uk) is very weak, so this part requires more solid sources before it can appear on this page.
Resume: Since her father José Eduardo dos Santos in 1979 took 'Presidency' of Angola at time, he and his family have amassed a business empire estimated to be worth at least €1.5 billion (US$ 2 billion) by mid 2012, while the people of Angola live in poverty despite the billions in revenue from Angola’s oil and other mineral riches, while the bank she owns 19 % of, the
Banco Português de Investimento, is about to get a
€1.5 billion
bailout from the Portuguese
tax payer.
[1]
-- Rubyface ( talk) 15:29, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I am asking for semiprotection of this article. Cruks ( talk) 15:15, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Do you know that spreading lies is not allowed? This may lead to you to be banned. Zorglub ( talk) 23:41, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
José Eduardo dos Santos married Tatiana Kukanova during his study in Baku. TK is however not from Azerbaijan, but a Russian born in Russia. Isabel dos Santos is the only child of the couple which separated soon after José Eduardo dos Santos' return to Angola. TK then went to London where Isabel dos Santos studied. She still lives in London, and an unconfirmned information has is that she married a British citizen. -- Aflis ( talk) 22:02, 22 May 2013 (UTC)
@TStanislav: I'm sorry, but from what you say I must conclude that you are quite unfamiliar with Angola. José Eduardo dos Santos has married three times, and has children from each wife. All together are considered as what anthropologists call an extensive family. All of his wives are considered notable figures. -- Aflis ( talk) 16:16, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
Here's a WP:RS that was checked for libel by Forbes' editors and lawyers.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2013/08/14/how-isabel-dos-santos-took-the-short-route-to-become-africas-richest-woman/ Forbes 8/14/2013 This story appears in the September 2, 2013 issue of Forbes. Daddy's Girl: How An African 'Princess' Banked $3 Billion In A Country Living On $2 A Day By Kerry A. Dolan and Rafael Marques de Morais
-- Nbauman ( talk) 23:14, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
Why does this wiki article about Isabel dos Santos always refer to Isabel dos Santos by Isabel dos Santos' full name? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.87.97 ( talk) 11:18, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
That's what this Forbes article suggests: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kerryadolan/2013/08/14/how-isabel-dos-santos-took-the-short-route-to-become-africas-richest-woman/ -- 105.237.38.155 ( talk) 17:08, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
You can't have it both ways: citing Forbes in the lede section as a source for saying she's worth $3 billion and the richest woman in Africa, while ignoring (or burying in the bizarrely-titled "Opinions" section) the fact that this same magazine performed an extensive examination of her assets and found every aspect of them tied at its origins to her father's kleptocratic and authoritarian regime. I realize XavierD75, as a proud Angolan "businessman" and "dandy", has a strong personal interest in this subject and is keen that the unpleasant fallout of the Forbes article be minimized, and I'm sure Ms. dos Santos, with her strong investments in PR stories of legitimization, feels the same way. But per WP:LEAD it is appropriate that the lead section summarize the subject and article's contents, which include the origins of Ms. dos Santos's fortune. We do use the word "alleged", of course. After all, who is to say that Isabel dos Santos didn't struggle and make it all on her own, like any other hard-working Angolan?!?
XavierD75, please weigh in here before making another revert. Thank you. Vesuvius Dogg ( talk) 19:57, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Isabel dos Santos. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://economia.publico.pt/Noticia/accionistas-da-zon-aprovam-por-unanimidade-entrada-de-isabel-dos-santos_1420467{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.jornaldenegocios.pt/empresas/fusoes___aquisicoes/fusao_zon_optimus/detalhe/isabel_dos_santos_comparece_a_ag_da_zon_optimus.html,When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:13, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
To read about new developments, see article in The Times and add it to the content. Thanks. Tokota ( talk) 08:53, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
New information, not sure where it should go though
Thanks
John Cummings ( talk) 20:08, 19 January 2020 (UTC)
This article says she attended Cobham Hall School, Kent; and she's also listed among the school's alumnae in its dedicated article (in both cases unsourced). However, in this edit, an IP has added dos Santos to the list of old girls of St Paul's Girls' School, with a reference to the not-unreliable but far from neutral website of the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists [1]. She may, of course, have attended both schools. Can anyone sort this out, and make the articles compatible? GrindtXX ( talk) 13:59, 28 January 2020 (UTC)
I find the current subsections dividing her life geographically need overhaul- The chronology is lost, and a lot of sentences dont contain dates and are 10 years old. Wuerzele ( talk) 10:47, 30 November 2022 (UTC)