![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Can somebody include something about the torture device? -- Zoe
Answering the call for (more) sources, I'll put this here instead of out on the actual page, as those more hip to Wikipedia Ways can decide how much of this would constitute fair use. As a single source, it may not be authoritative, but comes from a fairly scholarly work, and not much else has been offered here for discussion. "The 'iron maiden' ... may well be called a curiosity of legal history. Because of the long spikes inside it, it was regarded for a long time as an instrument of execution and hence as proof of the cruelty of medival penal practices. Admittedly, the famous legal historian Karl von Amira (1848-1930) also proceeded from the assumption that the iron maiden was an executioner's tool. He advanced the opinion, however, that it was never used as such, but served only the purpose of 'territion', i.e. of terrifying. The more recent research work of F. T. Schulz, however, seems adequate proof that the spikes were a later addition and that the iron maiden was accordingly a pillory-like instrument for inflicting degrading punishment, a mantle of infamy for women. The iron maiden exhibited in the Crime Museum in Rothenburg ob der Tauber presumably comes from Bohemia and to all appearances dates from the 16th century. In the past century it stood in a castle, was sold to England in 1889, went from there to American, and came to Rothenburg in 1968. The iron maiden shown in Nurenburg up to its destruction in the war in 1944 was a copy of the one now in Rothenburg." (pp 152-153, "Criminal Justice Through the Ages," edited by Christoph Hinckeldey, published 1993 by Mittelalterisches Kriminalmuseum, Rothenburg o.d.T, translated by John Fosberry.) TMT 2005-10-21—Preceding unsigned comment added by TMT~enwiki ( talk • contribs) 05:53, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
I was born in 1976 and lived all my life in the United States, and the torture device is primary in my mind as opposed to the band. Hackwrench 16:32, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
PLEASE DO NOT CLICK ON EDITED LINK!!! WILL GIVE YOUR COMPUTER A VIRIS!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.3.89.64 ( talk) 00:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The german article claims that all Iron Maidens were forgeries of the mid-19th century. This is in contradiction to the present article. -- 84.56.126.121 14:43, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Maybe, it was part of the torture procedure: The victim couldn't know for sure if he/she would only be tortured(injured), killed or even both.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.21.45.44 ( talk) 16:53, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that Iron Maiden (band) should be here but I won't move it til I get some people to agree with me. Even though the band is named after the device, Black Sabbath gets its own page whereas the movie its named after is put at Black Sabbath (movie). Yet on the other side of the argument, high selling band Nirvana (band) is put at (band) rather than Nirvana for the Buddhist term. So I propose a vote. Redwolf24 8 July 2005 04:09 (UTC)
I have asked nicely for proof that this device exists. No one has provided any. The German article, as 84 points out, makes it clear they are all faked. Why should Wikipedia accept an article which states as fact something with, at best, no evidence? Leave it as it is please and stop reverting it. Or, better yet, provide some evidence. Lao Wai 14:10, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Every wikipedia is ran on its own. Anyways keep it in Cat:Torture as a lot of articles there seem to have never existed. Also how do you explain the picture that's there? How's it a hoax? And it was amazingly uncivil of you to say "reverting someone's reign of terror". Redwolf24 17:53, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
The Finnish "New Encyclopedia" ("Uusi Tietosanakirja" [2]) from the year 1961 includes a short article on the Iron Maiden torture device ("Rautaneitsyt" in Finnish). The article maintains that the Iron Maiden was built in Nuremberg in the year 1867 and that it "presumably" was never used. The encyclopedia's editor-in-chief was an esteemed Finnish lexicographer Veli Valpola, with Yrjö Blomstedt, the professor of History at the University of Helsinki, as the historical advisor. - 137.163.19.99 09:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
The Finnish "New Encyclopedia" ("Uusi Tietosanakirja" [3]) from the year 1964 includes a short article on the Iron Maiden torture device ("Rautaneitsyt" in Finnish). The article maintains that the Iron Maiden was built in Nuremberg in the year 1867 and that it "presumably" was never used. The encyclopedia's editor-in-chief was an esteemed Finnish lexicographer Veli Valpola, with the historians and researchers Aira Kemiläinen and Tuomo Polvinen as historical advisors. - 128.214.198.11 08:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Well then it asserts that they were all fake. It is no more possible to provide evidence of a fake than it is of Santa Claus. The Saddam claim makes it clear what the problem is - people make this stuff up. Any evidence that Saddam's son had one much less used it? Try this: TIME.com: Iron Maiden Found in Uday Hussein's Playground -- Page 1 No, not the heavy metal band, the medieval torture device. www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,444889,00.html - Similar pages Clearly, it is YOU who are spouting off without doing a little research first. What agenda are you pushing, and why? 131.96.14.236 17:23, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
As written in the article, it is not true that this Iron Maiden is the only one. There's another just for representative purpose at Kyburg castle in Switzerland. Please see http://www.schlosskyburg.ch/rundgang/folter_jungfrau.html—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.134.254.145 ( talk) 08:43, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I have made an effort to improve the article with some weasel words (such as "supposedly" and "allegedly"). I think that the Iron Maiden was as much a device of torture as it was of execution, and it would have been possible to remove someone from it so that he could confess to anything or implicate others in heresies or treasonous plots, real or imagined.
I have no means of determining whether the device was more than an urban legend. Unless it were adequately ventilated, someone put into it would have suffocated, and all screams would have stopped as the victim expired from the lack of oxygen. Death from asphyxiation would be relatively swift. But if it were ventilated, people nearby would have been able to hear the screams, so we have a contradiction in the story.
But "allowed the victim to remain standing" (or similar language)? The device would have forced the victim to remain standing, and as he weakened he would have drooped, only to feel the spikes dig into him even more. -- 66.231.41.57 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
the german article clearly calls the am an urban legend. the thorns seem to be added in the 19th century. thus they have been removed now from some of the maidens.-- Tresckow 14:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The iron maiden was not a LEGEND!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.3.89.64 ( talk) 00:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The Iron Maiden was a method of execution, not torture. It takes its design (spikes) from a type of press which used spikes to impale people; the Iron Maiden, in contrast to many tools of execution, is highly stylized.
Other forms of impalement can be found in the middle ages, where spikes were set through a wooden barrel with a person who is trapped inside. -- 80.209.54.2 18:09, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
It can be execution and torture at the same time! WhisperToMe 02:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
There are references to the basic idea used in classical times, when the victim was clamped and embraced by spiked arms. The enclosed form as shown in this article was a later development. They were in widespread use: I found one casually displayed in a small museum in an old town in France. BrownBean 02:58, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
I am happy to see that Gracefool has taken the initiative to work the concerns from the talk page into the article. If anyone feels like further improving it, the article still seems somewhat inconsistent when read as a whole, particularly because the spirit of the old article oozes out in several places (e.g. "The doors of the Maiden were shut slowly" as if we had it on a reliable source that and how these contraptions were used). Algae 09:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I was asked about my sources for my edits on 20. Jan 2006; 00:57 (about the story of a coin forger killed with an iron maiden, and about the 19th century origin of iron maidens as a misunderstanding of a medieval "Schandmantel"). My main source was german wikipedia. Further readings (all in german):
Some more info on Prof. Johann Phillip Siebenkees :
-- mmg 07:31, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I think "Iron Maiden" as a query should redirect here. Presently, asking for Iron Maiden leads to an article about a rock band. So people who don't know what an iron maiden actually is, never get to find out (i.e. they may just think it's a made up name for a band)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Guruclef ( talk • contribs) 00:38, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The supposed operation opening and closing seem to contradict each other. It starts off by saying that '...On the outside, the maiden appeared harmless and nonthreatening...' and ends by saying that '...like most instruments of torture, to intimidate the prisoner...' RichMac (Talk) 16:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
If you were to open up such a contraption, it probably would not look as harmless and nonthreatening.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.231.203.184 ( talk) 21:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Forgive me, but I did not read through all of the entries here. Did anyone discuss the Iron Maiden that is on display at the Museum of Mideival Torture in Rothenburg, Germay?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.170.51.134 ( talk) 22:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
moved from main article, because there is no evidence and no source for the claimed:
![]() | This section's factual accuracy is
disputed. |
Purportedly, the condemned prisoner had to pass through seven rooms with seven doors before his scheduled execution. At the end of a long corridor he found himself looking into the face of an iron wardrobe that vaguely resembled a female form. citation needed Although on the outside the maiden appeared harmless and non-threatening, the doors were then opened to reveal spikes of iron on the inside that would torture the victim slowly rather than kill.
The doors of the maiden were shut slowly, so that the very sharp points penetrated a man’s arms, and his legs in several places, along with his belly and chest, bladder, eyes, shoulders, and his buttocks, but not enough to kill him. Allegedly, the spikes were sometimes heated red hot as well to increase pain, or possibly cauterize the puncture wounds as to prolong suffering. Historical experts have theorized that the spikes on the inside of the doors may have been movable. They were thought to have been able to be repositioned and/or relocated depending on the individual requirements of the person’s body and their crime. The overall result would be more or less lethal and mutilating depending upon where the spikes were located.
The object was to inflict extreme pain and punish the victim – and also, like most instruments of torture, to intimidate prisoners before actual use, so that they confessed!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmg ( talk • contribs) 22:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Where in Half-life 2 does an Iron Madien appear?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.9.90.180 ( talk) 21:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Even if the device is not a historical reality, I am interested in its purported use. I guess it would need to be sourced, but this article would be improved with a discussion on the theory, or supposed theory, of how it works. I mean, okay, you close it on someone and it stabs them, but beyond that... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.237.249.166 ( talk) 19:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
How can somebody forge the history of something at the end of the 18th century if it wasn't built until the 19th century? Professor Ninja 10:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I added a reference to the appearance of Hecate in the guise of an Iron Maiden in the Hellboy comics, but it appears to have been removed. Does anyone know why it was removed? Thanks MauriceReeves 16:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The Iron Maiden was never used in Medieval Europe or by any Catholic institution. It was invented after the Reformation in Protestant Germany.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.215.249.197 ( talk) 15:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
According to Siebenkees' colportage, it was first used on August 14, 1515, to execute a coin forger. It is often associated with the Middle ages but was not invented until the nineteenth century. Any comments? Reginmund 23:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Never mind. Someone fixed it. Reginmund 23:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Still contradicts itself. -- 68.44.106.132 ( talk) 02:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I edited the information about the one found in Uday hussein's property. It wasn't found by US troops, and it wasn't found in a soccer field. Deathtalon 18:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
This page should NOT be the default page for the search "Iron Maiden". It should either be the band or straight to the disambiguation page. I don't know how to change this, but it is really stupid the way it is now.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.137.97.253 ( talk) 19:01, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
The following request to move a page has been added to Wikipedia:Requested moves as an uncontroversial move, but this has been contested by one or more people. Any discussion on the issue should continue here. If a full request is not lodged within five days of this request being contested, the request will be removed from WP:RM. — Stemonitis 06:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
It is possible to create two non-redirect pages with the same name but different capitalization. If this arises, a disambiguation link should always be placed at the top of both pages, linking either to a dedicated disambiguation page or to the other article.
The result of the proposal was No move. Let me clarify: this particular request goes against WP:PRECISION. A case could be made how the band and the device should be disambiguated, but this debate is not (supposed to be) about it: at least one should receive a bracketed disambiguator, regardless of capitalization. In addition, I redirected Iron maiden (per Ajax) to the band and fixed few incoming links, to facilitate use of the search box and bring consistency. But again, by convention, we don't use capitalization to disambiguate; which one is the primary topic is another issue. Duja ► 08:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Iron maiden (torture device) → Iron maiden — No need for proposed title to redirect to current title. There is already a dab link at the top of the page for the band with the same name, and a disambig page for other uses of the word. Plus, no consensus was opened to move the page to the current title. — Admc2006 19:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Sorry, but is there any real point keeping the endless list of trivia about places where an iron maiden has come up in popular culture? ≈ Maurauth ( Ravenor) 17:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I took a look at the trivia items now on the list and theire corresponding wikipedia article. For the following items, the words "iron maiden" are not mentioned in the article which I take as an indication that the cultural reference to iron maiden is not all that noteable:
I have removed these items from the article, but preserved them here on the talk page in case the edit is contested. Dr bab ( talk) 22:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
The article says that the Iron Maiden was definitely not made in medieval times, but this is not confirmed. Try reading [4]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.127.55 ( talk) 04:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I suspect that whoever wrote this paragraph is very confused about the information they've used and failed to reference. Reading the article on Siebenkees, I suspect that what the paragraph should say is that he falsified the history of iron maidens in general, rather than the Nuremberg iron maiden. Would it be fair to change it to this? It would be no more untrue than the nonsense currently in this paragraph Melaena ( talk) 21:48, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree that we can't write with certainty if the remarks can't be found, but how can you justify writing something that makes absolutely no sense instead? I'm sure that whatever Sierbenkees wrote, he didn't write about the Nuremberg iron maiden as the article suggests, if the nurmeberg iron maiden didn't exist. The issue is made even more ridiculous by the fact that the article alleges without referencing that historians have 'ascertained' this patent nonsense. If the author of the second paragraph is not prepared to reference the work of these historians, at least so that somebody else can make sense of the situation, then the references to Siebenkees should be removed. The same applies to the claim that the Nuremberg iron maiden was constructed shortly before 1892: only one of these two claims can be true Melaena ( talk) 12:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
The article should say whether there is any confirmation of an iron maiden actually being used. If no-one here knows of one, we should just say "there is no confirmed actual usage", if there is one, it should be cited. ··gracefool ☺ 14:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, according to TODAY'S version of the article, it was "The iron maiden probably was not used until the twentieth century, if at all." That is beyond belief and uncited, hence my tagging of the lack of citation. If no citation appears in a reasonable time, I'll delete that statement. Wzrd1 ( talk) 06:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
The article reads as if the iron maiden is of German origin. But it's never explicitly stated. Is it? ~ Itzjustdrama ? C 14:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
The long and eye-rollingly dramatic alleged French account (in English), reprinted from Geoffrey Abbot Execution (New York: St. Martin's Press) seems to be a copyright violation-- in addition to its pseudo-historical " Black Legend" silliness. Sensible caveats in the text are continually deleted by some fantasist. -- Wetman ( talk) 07:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken, the device is shown in the movie Sleepy Hollow. It could be added in the 'cultural' section. 64.18.168.47 ( talk) 23:59, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
"The legendarium that has accrued to the early 17th-century Countess Elizabeth Báthory features..." I'm sure someone is proud of his prose, but this doesn't sound encyclopedic. 98.221.124.80 ( talk) 22:59, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
"The legendarium that has accrued to the early 17th-century Countess Elizabeth Báthory features a very similar torture device, which she allegedly dubbed the 'iron virgin'" -- Who talks like that in the 21st Century? Vincent Price? giggle 14:35, 7 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregory.george.lewis ( talk • contribs)
Does this word exist in English? Norvo ( talk) 23:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
We should add "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" to wit: Evil Duke: Put them in the iron maiden! Ted: Iron Maiden? (thinking of the band "Iron Maiden") Bill, Ted: Excellent! [air guitar] Evil Duke: Execute them! Bill, Ted: Bogus! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.36.143.199 ( talk) 23:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Can somebody include something about the torture device? -- Zoe
Answering the call for (more) sources, I'll put this here instead of out on the actual page, as those more hip to Wikipedia Ways can decide how much of this would constitute fair use. As a single source, it may not be authoritative, but comes from a fairly scholarly work, and not much else has been offered here for discussion. "The 'iron maiden' ... may well be called a curiosity of legal history. Because of the long spikes inside it, it was regarded for a long time as an instrument of execution and hence as proof of the cruelty of medival penal practices. Admittedly, the famous legal historian Karl von Amira (1848-1930) also proceeded from the assumption that the iron maiden was an executioner's tool. He advanced the opinion, however, that it was never used as such, but served only the purpose of 'territion', i.e. of terrifying. The more recent research work of F. T. Schulz, however, seems adequate proof that the spikes were a later addition and that the iron maiden was accordingly a pillory-like instrument for inflicting degrading punishment, a mantle of infamy for women. The iron maiden exhibited in the Crime Museum in Rothenburg ob der Tauber presumably comes from Bohemia and to all appearances dates from the 16th century. In the past century it stood in a castle, was sold to England in 1889, went from there to American, and came to Rothenburg in 1968. The iron maiden shown in Nurenburg up to its destruction in the war in 1944 was a copy of the one now in Rothenburg." (pp 152-153, "Criminal Justice Through the Ages," edited by Christoph Hinckeldey, published 1993 by Mittelalterisches Kriminalmuseum, Rothenburg o.d.T, translated by John Fosberry.) TMT 2005-10-21—Preceding unsigned comment added by TMT~enwiki ( talk • contribs) 05:53, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
I was born in 1976 and lived all my life in the United States, and the torture device is primary in my mind as opposed to the band. Hackwrench 16:32, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
PLEASE DO NOT CLICK ON EDITED LINK!!! WILL GIVE YOUR COMPUTER A VIRIS!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.3.89.64 ( talk) 00:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The german article claims that all Iron Maidens were forgeries of the mid-19th century. This is in contradiction to the present article. -- 84.56.126.121 14:43, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Maybe, it was part of the torture procedure: The victim couldn't know for sure if he/she would only be tortured(injured), killed or even both.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.21.45.44 ( talk) 16:53, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that Iron Maiden (band) should be here but I won't move it til I get some people to agree with me. Even though the band is named after the device, Black Sabbath gets its own page whereas the movie its named after is put at Black Sabbath (movie). Yet on the other side of the argument, high selling band Nirvana (band) is put at (band) rather than Nirvana for the Buddhist term. So I propose a vote. Redwolf24 8 July 2005 04:09 (UTC)
I have asked nicely for proof that this device exists. No one has provided any. The German article, as 84 points out, makes it clear they are all faked. Why should Wikipedia accept an article which states as fact something with, at best, no evidence? Leave it as it is please and stop reverting it. Or, better yet, provide some evidence. Lao Wai 14:10, 23 August 2005 (UTC)
Every wikipedia is ran on its own. Anyways keep it in Cat:Torture as a lot of articles there seem to have never existed. Also how do you explain the picture that's there? How's it a hoax? And it was amazingly uncivil of you to say "reverting someone's reign of terror". Redwolf24 17:53, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
The Finnish "New Encyclopedia" ("Uusi Tietosanakirja" [2]) from the year 1961 includes a short article on the Iron Maiden torture device ("Rautaneitsyt" in Finnish). The article maintains that the Iron Maiden was built in Nuremberg in the year 1867 and that it "presumably" was never used. The encyclopedia's editor-in-chief was an esteemed Finnish lexicographer Veli Valpola, with Yrjö Blomstedt, the professor of History at the University of Helsinki, as the historical advisor. - 137.163.19.99 09:18, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
The Finnish "New Encyclopedia" ("Uusi Tietosanakirja" [3]) from the year 1964 includes a short article on the Iron Maiden torture device ("Rautaneitsyt" in Finnish). The article maintains that the Iron Maiden was built in Nuremberg in the year 1867 and that it "presumably" was never used. The encyclopedia's editor-in-chief was an esteemed Finnish lexicographer Veli Valpola, with the historians and researchers Aira Kemiläinen and Tuomo Polvinen as historical advisors. - 128.214.198.11 08:27, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
Well then it asserts that they were all fake. It is no more possible to provide evidence of a fake than it is of Santa Claus. The Saddam claim makes it clear what the problem is - people make this stuff up. Any evidence that Saddam's son had one much less used it? Try this: TIME.com: Iron Maiden Found in Uday Hussein's Playground -- Page 1 No, not the heavy metal band, the medieval torture device. www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,444889,00.html - Similar pages Clearly, it is YOU who are spouting off without doing a little research first. What agenda are you pushing, and why? 131.96.14.236 17:23, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
As written in the article, it is not true that this Iron Maiden is the only one. There's another just for representative purpose at Kyburg castle in Switzerland. Please see http://www.schlosskyburg.ch/rundgang/folter_jungfrau.html—Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.134.254.145 ( talk) 08:43, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
I have made an effort to improve the article with some weasel words (such as "supposedly" and "allegedly"). I think that the Iron Maiden was as much a device of torture as it was of execution, and it would have been possible to remove someone from it so that he could confess to anything or implicate others in heresies or treasonous plots, real or imagined.
I have no means of determining whether the device was more than an urban legend. Unless it were adequately ventilated, someone put into it would have suffocated, and all screams would have stopped as the victim expired from the lack of oxygen. Death from asphyxiation would be relatively swift. But if it were ventilated, people nearby would have been able to hear the screams, so we have a contradiction in the story.
But "allowed the victim to remain standing" (or similar language)? The device would have forced the victim to remain standing, and as he weakened he would have drooped, only to feel the spikes dig into him even more. -- 66.231.41.57 21:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
the german article clearly calls the am an urban legend. the thorns seem to be added in the 19th century. thus they have been removed now from some of the maidens.-- Tresckow 14:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The iron maiden was not a LEGEND!!—Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.3.89.64 ( talk) 00:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
The Iron Maiden was a method of execution, not torture. It takes its design (spikes) from a type of press which used spikes to impale people; the Iron Maiden, in contrast to many tools of execution, is highly stylized.
Other forms of impalement can be found in the middle ages, where spikes were set through a wooden barrel with a person who is trapped inside. -- 80.209.54.2 18:09, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
It can be execution and torture at the same time! WhisperToMe 02:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
There are references to the basic idea used in classical times, when the victim was clamped and embraced by spiked arms. The enclosed form as shown in this article was a later development. They were in widespread use: I found one casually displayed in a small museum in an old town in France. BrownBean 02:58, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
I am happy to see that Gracefool has taken the initiative to work the concerns from the talk page into the article. If anyone feels like further improving it, the article still seems somewhat inconsistent when read as a whole, particularly because the spirit of the old article oozes out in several places (e.g. "The doors of the Maiden were shut slowly" as if we had it on a reliable source that and how these contraptions were used). Algae 09:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I was asked about my sources for my edits on 20. Jan 2006; 00:57 (about the story of a coin forger killed with an iron maiden, and about the 19th century origin of iron maidens as a misunderstanding of a medieval "Schandmantel"). My main source was german wikipedia. Further readings (all in german):
Some more info on Prof. Johann Phillip Siebenkees :
-- mmg 07:31, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
I think "Iron Maiden" as a query should redirect here. Presently, asking for Iron Maiden leads to an article about a rock band. So people who don't know what an iron maiden actually is, never get to find out (i.e. they may just think it's a made up name for a band)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Guruclef ( talk • contribs) 00:38, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
The supposed operation opening and closing seem to contradict each other. It starts off by saying that '...On the outside, the maiden appeared harmless and nonthreatening...' and ends by saying that '...like most instruments of torture, to intimidate the prisoner...' RichMac (Talk) 16:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
If you were to open up such a contraption, it probably would not look as harmless and nonthreatening.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.231.203.184 ( talk) 21:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Forgive me, but I did not read through all of the entries here. Did anyone discuss the Iron Maiden that is on display at the Museum of Mideival Torture in Rothenburg, Germay?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.170.51.134 ( talk) 22:52, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
moved from main article, because there is no evidence and no source for the claimed:
![]() | This section's factual accuracy is
disputed. |
Purportedly, the condemned prisoner had to pass through seven rooms with seven doors before his scheduled execution. At the end of a long corridor he found himself looking into the face of an iron wardrobe that vaguely resembled a female form. citation needed Although on the outside the maiden appeared harmless and non-threatening, the doors were then opened to reveal spikes of iron on the inside that would torture the victim slowly rather than kill.
The doors of the maiden were shut slowly, so that the very sharp points penetrated a man’s arms, and his legs in several places, along with his belly and chest, bladder, eyes, shoulders, and his buttocks, but not enough to kill him. Allegedly, the spikes were sometimes heated red hot as well to increase pain, or possibly cauterize the puncture wounds as to prolong suffering. Historical experts have theorized that the spikes on the inside of the doors may have been movable. They were thought to have been able to be repositioned and/or relocated depending on the individual requirements of the person’s body and their crime. The overall result would be more or less lethal and mutilating depending upon where the spikes were located.
The object was to inflict extreme pain and punish the victim – and also, like most instruments of torture, to intimidate prisoners before actual use, so that they confessed!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmg ( talk • contribs) 22:17, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Where in Half-life 2 does an Iron Madien appear?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.9.90.180 ( talk) 21:15, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Even if the device is not a historical reality, I am interested in its purported use. I guess it would need to be sourced, but this article would be improved with a discussion on the theory, or supposed theory, of how it works. I mean, okay, you close it on someone and it stabs them, but beyond that... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.237.249.166 ( talk) 19:15, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
How can somebody forge the history of something at the end of the 18th century if it wasn't built until the 19th century? Professor Ninja 10:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
I added a reference to the appearance of Hecate in the guise of an Iron Maiden in the Hellboy comics, but it appears to have been removed. Does anyone know why it was removed? Thanks MauriceReeves 16:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The Iron Maiden was never used in Medieval Europe or by any Catholic institution. It was invented after the Reformation in Protestant Germany.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.215.249.197 ( talk) 15:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
According to Siebenkees' colportage, it was first used on August 14, 1515, to execute a coin forger. It is often associated with the Middle ages but was not invented until the nineteenth century. Any comments? Reginmund 23:02, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Never mind. Someone fixed it. Reginmund 23:44, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Still contradicts itself. -- 68.44.106.132 ( talk) 02:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
I edited the information about the one found in Uday hussein's property. It wasn't found by US troops, and it wasn't found in a soccer field. Deathtalon 18:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
This page should NOT be the default page for the search "Iron Maiden". It should either be the band or straight to the disambiguation page. I don't know how to change this, but it is really stupid the way it is now.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.137.97.253 ( talk) 19:01, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
The following request to move a page has been added to Wikipedia:Requested moves as an uncontroversial move, but this has been contested by one or more people. Any discussion on the issue should continue here. If a full request is not lodged within five days of this request being contested, the request will be removed from WP:RM. — Stemonitis 06:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
It is possible to create two non-redirect pages with the same name but different capitalization. If this arises, a disambiguation link should always be placed at the top of both pages, linking either to a dedicated disambiguation page or to the other article.
The result of the proposal was No move. Let me clarify: this particular request goes against WP:PRECISION. A case could be made how the band and the device should be disambiguated, but this debate is not (supposed to be) about it: at least one should receive a bracketed disambiguator, regardless of capitalization. In addition, I redirected Iron maiden (per Ajax) to the band and fixed few incoming links, to facilitate use of the search box and bring consistency. But again, by convention, we don't use capitalization to disambiguate; which one is the primary topic is another issue. Duja ► 08:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Iron maiden (torture device) → Iron maiden — No need for proposed title to redirect to current title. There is already a dab link at the top of the page for the band with the same name, and a disambig page for other uses of the word. Plus, no consensus was opened to move the page to the current title. — Admc2006 19:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Sorry, but is there any real point keeping the endless list of trivia about places where an iron maiden has come up in popular culture? ≈ Maurauth ( Ravenor) 17:18, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
I took a look at the trivia items now on the list and theire corresponding wikipedia article. For the following items, the words "iron maiden" are not mentioned in the article which I take as an indication that the cultural reference to iron maiden is not all that noteable:
I have removed these items from the article, but preserved them here on the talk page in case the edit is contested. Dr bab ( talk) 22:27, 11 February 2011 (UTC)
The article says that the Iron Maiden was definitely not made in medieval times, but this is not confirmed. Try reading [4]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.164.127.55 ( talk) 04:16, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I suspect that whoever wrote this paragraph is very confused about the information they've used and failed to reference. Reading the article on Siebenkees, I suspect that what the paragraph should say is that he falsified the history of iron maidens in general, rather than the Nuremberg iron maiden. Would it be fair to change it to this? It would be no more untrue than the nonsense currently in this paragraph Melaena ( talk) 21:48, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree that we can't write with certainty if the remarks can't be found, but how can you justify writing something that makes absolutely no sense instead? I'm sure that whatever Sierbenkees wrote, he didn't write about the Nuremberg iron maiden as the article suggests, if the nurmeberg iron maiden didn't exist. The issue is made even more ridiculous by the fact that the article alleges without referencing that historians have 'ascertained' this patent nonsense. If the author of the second paragraph is not prepared to reference the work of these historians, at least so that somebody else can make sense of the situation, then the references to Siebenkees should be removed. The same applies to the claim that the Nuremberg iron maiden was constructed shortly before 1892: only one of these two claims can be true Melaena ( talk) 12:17, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
The article should say whether there is any confirmation of an iron maiden actually being used. If no-one here knows of one, we should just say "there is no confirmed actual usage", if there is one, it should be cited. ··gracefool ☺ 14:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, according to TODAY'S version of the article, it was "The iron maiden probably was not used until the twentieth century, if at all." That is beyond belief and uncited, hence my tagging of the lack of citation. If no citation appears in a reasonable time, I'll delete that statement. Wzrd1 ( talk) 06:06, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
The article reads as if the iron maiden is of German origin. But it's never explicitly stated. Is it? ~ Itzjustdrama ? C 14:32, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
The long and eye-rollingly dramatic alleged French account (in English), reprinted from Geoffrey Abbot Execution (New York: St. Martin's Press) seems to be a copyright violation-- in addition to its pseudo-historical " Black Legend" silliness. Sensible caveats in the text are continually deleted by some fantasist. -- Wetman ( talk) 07:40, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
If I'm not mistaken, the device is shown in the movie Sleepy Hollow. It could be added in the 'cultural' section. 64.18.168.47 ( talk) 23:59, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
"The legendarium that has accrued to the early 17th-century Countess Elizabeth Báthory features..." I'm sure someone is proud of his prose, but this doesn't sound encyclopedic. 98.221.124.80 ( talk) 22:59, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
"The legendarium that has accrued to the early 17th-century Countess Elizabeth Báthory features a very similar torture device, which she allegedly dubbed the 'iron virgin'" -- Who talks like that in the 21st Century? Vincent Price? giggle 14:35, 7 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gregory.george.lewis ( talk • contribs)
Does this word exist in English? Norvo ( talk) 23:50, 18 October 2010 (UTC)
We should add "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" to wit: Evil Duke: Put them in the iron maiden! Ted: Iron Maiden? (thinking of the band "Iron Maiden") Bill, Ted: Excellent! [air guitar] Evil Duke: Execute them! Bill, Ted: Bogus! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.36.143.199 ( talk) 23:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)