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Can we have an (rough) english equivalent for all of these? 79.75.64.248 ( talk) 00:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
I have only looked at the first few letters I'll admit, but I have already come across a few "errors" in pronunciation. The table shows bhf (broad) pronounced as a w and gives bhfuinneog as an example being pronounced as winn-yohg (obviously in IPA but ...). The problem with this is that it is more typically pronounced as vwinn-yohg in Munster and large parts of Connacht. Aibhneacha is shown here as being pronounced as [avʲnʲəxə], where most will actually pronounce it as [əinʲəxə]. I'm sure a lot of work has gone into these pronunciation tables and I can see there is consistency here, however I would argue that a disclaimer is made to show the variety of Irish being shown. Otherwise we run the risk of showing that sibh (as an example) is pronounced [ʃɪvʲ] everywhere when in actuality it is pronounced as that only in Connacht, Munster and the caighdeán but as [ʃɪːw], [ʃʲwː] or [ʃiːw] in Ulster and parts of North Mayo. -- MacTire02 ( talk) 21:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
The new Spelling reform section says, "The Irish Texts Society's 1904 Irish–English bilingual dictionary by Patrick S. Dinneen used traditional spellings." But even Dinneen's dictionary uses some reformed spellings, such as sp and sc instead of sb and sg, -as instead of -us in words like solas, consistent use of éa instead of eu, and eo rather than eó to mark [o:] after a slender consonant. So while many early 20th century texts spell the word for "story" sgeul and the word for "knowledge" eólus, Dinneen spells them scéal and eolas as they're spelled today. —Angr ( talk) 15:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Though the Irish for kilometre is ciliméadar, it is always abbreviated as "km" on road signs. Can anyone say why, if there is no letter K? The article says - "k is the only letter not to be listed by Ó Dónaill." Is it bad Irish on the road signs, or did they think nobody would notice, or does nobody care anyway?? 86.42.192.214 ( talk) 15:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
Most examples are given with only one pronunciation, and there's no mention of whether it's supposed to be the “standard” one, the most common one, or the one from a particular dialect. For example, it says ao is pronounced /eː/ in the word aon /eːn̪ˠ/ "one" and its derivatives – well, Foclóir Póca says aon is /i:n/, and there are dialects where ao is normally /eː/, so a statement like that only applies to some dialects, and the article gives no clue as to which ones. Same applies to most of the exceptions (ceann is /canˠ/ according to Foclóir Póca and /caunˠ/ in Munster, beag is /bʲɛɡ/ in FP and (IIRC) /bʲaɡ/ in Ulster, ...) ― A. di M. plé dréachtaí 23:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
If this is supposed to be Connaught dialect, why is there no lenited---unlenited contrast for 'l', 'n' & 'r'? 46.186.36.102 ( talk) 01:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
In the forthcoming edition of The Hobbit in Irish a Tengwar mode for Irish will be published. Would a description of this be out of scope for the present article? -- Evertype· ✆ 12:18, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't speak Irish, I've just read a few things about it. I wonder why the word is is pronounced with an [s] instead of [ʃ]. Shouldn't it be [ɪʃ], since i is a slender consonant? - So is it an exception? Are there more? And could they be listed? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.205.123 ( talk) 17:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
This is a low-quality image. The edges of the letters are not smooth, and the letter "names" use some sort of quasi-phonetic spelling. It looks it was put together in an old version of Microsoft Paint. It would be nice if someone redid it. I was thinking particularly of User:Evertype, but if someone else has the necessary typeface (I don't), by all means go ahead and do it. ( suoı̣ʇnqı̣ɹʇuoɔ · ʞlɐʇ) nɯnuı̣ɥԀ 21:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I have original sources! Your typeface is excellent! (for most interested Wikipedia Readers); A very good Bulgarian friend of mine, has original Irish type face construction algorithms... I, myself, can read the original typeface, (re Dineen 1927). Михал Орела 17:13, 14 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MihalOrela ( talk • contribs)
Replaced Uncial_alphabet.png with SVG version Uncial_alphabet.svg. —☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 06:32, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
Have the silent vowels that indicate broad/slender been inserted to indicate this, or were they originally really there, affecting the consonants, and have these vowels subsequently been lost? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.82.82 ( talk) 21:41, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
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When I put Irish names that include Mc or Mac in all caps, should the “c” and “a” be capitalized? For example, I was watching golf and I saw the name “RORY McILROY”. Is this right, or should it be MCILROY? Either way, it should be added to the capitalization section with a reference. Worst Username ( talk) 22:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC) Worst Username ( talk) 22:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
As the "Diacritics" section points out, not all vowels next to fada vowels are silent: the two examples given are iá(i) and uó(i), and I've found aoú (as in naoú) as well. Such combinations should obviously be included in the chart in the "Vowels" section; let's try to list them all here first and then add them. So far we have:
Esszet ( talk) 22:37, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Alright, then I guess I’ll just add that stuff to the chart, and if Sean an Scuab has anything to add, he’ll let us know. Esszet ( talk) 18:20, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
@ Zontas Do you have sources for the pronunciation of obh, odh, ogh, and omh as /ou/? The linguist Brian Ó Raghallaigh, for example, transcribes them all as /au/, which is the same pronunciation he uses for abh and amh. Esszet ( talk) 14:09, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
=== The answer is hearing it on focloir.ie, but this is likely because my ears hear /ou/ for /@u/, my apologies. I also editted it a while ago, and am not 100% sure what i was referring to outside of that. Zontas ( talk)
Is h really called 'hh'? No vowels in the name? Koro Neil ( talk) 23:54, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
Judging by the page Eoin, word-initial eo- is not /oː/ but /joː/. Is this accurate? It should probably be included in the table if so. Rua ( mew) 11:17, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Under vowels, various examples are given after this: "Between a consonant and a broad vowel, e and i are usually non-phonemic in the same way. This applies to:" One of the examples given is "cailin". However, shouldn't that be "cailín" (with a fada on the second "i")? 2A02:C7D:EC13:9700:5516:CF3F:9713:131D ( talk) 13:36, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
The part of the vowel table for <ai> implies that that digraph only represents /ɛ/ in three words, after <bh>, but in another part of the vowel table the word <aici> is written in IPA as /ˈɛcɪ/. 108.49.179.27 ( talk) 13:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Can we have an (rough) english equivalent for all of these? 79.75.64.248 ( talk) 00:00, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
I have only looked at the first few letters I'll admit, but I have already come across a few "errors" in pronunciation. The table shows bhf (broad) pronounced as a w and gives bhfuinneog as an example being pronounced as winn-yohg (obviously in IPA but ...). The problem with this is that it is more typically pronounced as vwinn-yohg in Munster and large parts of Connacht. Aibhneacha is shown here as being pronounced as [avʲnʲəxə], where most will actually pronounce it as [əinʲəxə]. I'm sure a lot of work has gone into these pronunciation tables and I can see there is consistency here, however I would argue that a disclaimer is made to show the variety of Irish being shown. Otherwise we run the risk of showing that sibh (as an example) is pronounced [ʃɪvʲ] everywhere when in actuality it is pronounced as that only in Connacht, Munster and the caighdeán but as [ʃɪːw], [ʃʲwː] or [ʃiːw] in Ulster and parts of North Mayo. -- MacTire02 ( talk) 21:56, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
The new Spelling reform section says, "The Irish Texts Society's 1904 Irish–English bilingual dictionary by Patrick S. Dinneen used traditional spellings." But even Dinneen's dictionary uses some reformed spellings, such as sp and sc instead of sb and sg, -as instead of -us in words like solas, consistent use of éa instead of eu, and eo rather than eó to mark [o:] after a slender consonant. So while many early 20th century texts spell the word for "story" sgeul and the word for "knowledge" eólus, Dinneen spells them scéal and eolas as they're spelled today. —Angr ( talk) 15:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
Though the Irish for kilometre is ciliméadar, it is always abbreviated as "km" on road signs. Can anyone say why, if there is no letter K? The article says - "k is the only letter not to be listed by Ó Dónaill." Is it bad Irish on the road signs, or did they think nobody would notice, or does nobody care anyway?? 86.42.192.214 ( talk) 15:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
Most examples are given with only one pronunciation, and there's no mention of whether it's supposed to be the “standard” one, the most common one, or the one from a particular dialect. For example, it says ao is pronounced /eː/ in the word aon /eːn̪ˠ/ "one" and its derivatives – well, Foclóir Póca says aon is /i:n/, and there are dialects where ao is normally /eː/, so a statement like that only applies to some dialects, and the article gives no clue as to which ones. Same applies to most of the exceptions (ceann is /canˠ/ according to Foclóir Póca and /caunˠ/ in Munster, beag is /bʲɛɡ/ in FP and (IIRC) /bʲaɡ/ in Ulster, ...) ― A. di M. plé dréachtaí 23:14, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
If this is supposed to be Connaught dialect, why is there no lenited---unlenited contrast for 'l', 'n' & 'r'? 46.186.36.102 ( talk) 01:42, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
In the forthcoming edition of The Hobbit in Irish a Tengwar mode for Irish will be published. Would a description of this be out of scope for the present article? -- Evertype· ✆ 12:18, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't speak Irish, I've just read a few things about it. I wonder why the word is is pronounced with an [s] instead of [ʃ]. Shouldn't it be [ɪʃ], since i is a slender consonant? - So is it an exception? Are there more? And could they be listed? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.205.123 ( talk) 17:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
This is a low-quality image. The edges of the letters are not smooth, and the letter "names" use some sort of quasi-phonetic spelling. It looks it was put together in an old version of Microsoft Paint. It would be nice if someone redid it. I was thinking particularly of User:Evertype, but if someone else has the necessary typeface (I don't), by all means go ahead and do it. ( suoı̣ʇnqı̣ɹʇuoɔ · ʞlɐʇ) nɯnuı̣ɥԀ 21:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I have original sources! Your typeface is excellent! (for most interested Wikipedia Readers); A very good Bulgarian friend of mine, has original Irish type face construction algorithms... I, myself, can read the original typeface, (re Dineen 1927). Михал Орела 17:13, 14 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MihalOrela ( talk • contribs)
Replaced Uncial_alphabet.png with SVG version Uncial_alphabet.svg. —☸ Moilleadóir ☎ 06:32, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
Have the silent vowels that indicate broad/slender been inserted to indicate this, or were they originally really there, affecting the consonants, and have these vowels subsequently been lost? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.82.82 ( talk) 21:41, 7 July 2015 (UTC)
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When I put Irish names that include Mc or Mac in all caps, should the “c” and “a” be capitalized? For example, I was watching golf and I saw the name “RORY McILROY”. Is this right, or should it be MCILROY? Either way, it should be added to the capitalization section with a reference. Worst Username ( talk) 22:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC) Worst Username ( talk) 22:52, 8 April 2018 (UTC)
As the "Diacritics" section points out, not all vowels next to fada vowels are silent: the two examples given are iá(i) and uó(i), and I've found aoú (as in naoú) as well. Such combinations should obviously be included in the chart in the "Vowels" section; let's try to list them all here first and then add them. So far we have:
Esszet ( talk) 22:37, 16 May 2018 (UTC)
Alright, then I guess I’ll just add that stuff to the chart, and if Sean an Scuab has anything to add, he’ll let us know. Esszet ( talk) 18:20, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
@ Zontas Do you have sources for the pronunciation of obh, odh, ogh, and omh as /ou/? The linguist Brian Ó Raghallaigh, for example, transcribes them all as /au/, which is the same pronunciation he uses for abh and amh. Esszet ( talk) 14:09, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
=== The answer is hearing it on focloir.ie, but this is likely because my ears hear /ou/ for /@u/, my apologies. I also editted it a while ago, and am not 100% sure what i was referring to outside of that. Zontas ( talk)
Is h really called 'hh'? No vowels in the name? Koro Neil ( talk) 23:54, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
Judging by the page Eoin, word-initial eo- is not /oː/ but /joː/. Is this accurate? It should probably be included in the table if so. Rua ( mew) 11:17, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
Under vowels, various examples are given after this: "Between a consonant and a broad vowel, e and i are usually non-phonemic in the same way. This applies to:" One of the examples given is "cailin". However, shouldn't that be "cailín" (with a fada on the second "i")? 2A02:C7D:EC13:9700:5516:CF3F:9713:131D ( talk) 13:36, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
The part of the vowel table for <ai> implies that that digraph only represents /ɛ/ in three words, after <bh>, but in another part of the vowel table the word <aici> is written in IPA as /ˈɛcɪ/. 108.49.179.27 ( talk) 13:08, 28 December 2022 (UTC)