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I find this article to be biased in its treatment of the various atrocities. Those carried out by the British regiments are clearly shown but the IRA murder of civilians gains little mention. There is one paragraph which begins; "The years between the Easter Rising of 1916 and the beginning of the War of Independence in 1919 were not bloodless." This is an understatment. Clearly there is dispute over the numbers provided by, say, Peter Hart in his work but the fact that the IRA did murder civilians is indisputable. There is a further reference as below; "Much of the IRA's popularity arose from the excessive reaction of the British forces to IRA activity. When Éamon de Valera returned from the United States, he demanded in the Dáil that the IRA desist from the ambushes and assassinations, which were allowing the British to portray it as a terrorist group and to take on the British forces with conventional military methods. The proposal was immediately dismissed" I think it important to note the violence carried out by the IRA and that there is a large unknown quantity. This IRA violence as hinted by the reference above is what caused many of the atrocities of the British army. It was these atrocities that garnered so much support from the general public both in Ireland and the UK. I will consider drafting some proposed changes but I would like to hear a few opinions on my statements.
87.115.7.142 ( talk) 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
I think your statements will be hard to swallow for some, but they are in my opinion, necessary changes to make. It was a dirty war and we get nowhere pretending the dirtyness was all down to one side. I say make your changes because as it stands its very biased. 146.200.201.141 ( talk) 19:51, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
Are any of the above editors proposing an actual change or changes? Guliolopez ( talk) 14:44, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
The first section of Origins of the Conflict starts by saying this: "Since the 1870s, Irish nationalists in the Irish Parliamentary Party (IPP) had been demanding Home Rule, or self-government, from Britain, while not ruling out eventual complete independence. Fringe organisations, such as Arthur Griffith's Sinn Féin, instead argued for some form of immediate Irish independence, but they were in a small minority." That's about all it says about the origins. So what were the Irish grievances? This piece says nothing. The Origins section needs a subsection describing the state of the country in the decades before the Easter Rising. We need to see something about the absentee landlords, the state of the Democracy and why the Irish felt it was inadequate, and the socio-economic conditions. — MiguelMunoz ( talk) 06:52, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
This edit by Ahsanullah Al Mamun (Fixed a plethora of grammatical errors and added clarity to the article) gives the impression that the editor fed the article through Microsoft Word grammar check or equivalent, and made any changes the machine suggested, without looking at the sense of the sentences, or their context, or even the variety of English in use. For instance:
I have reverted. Scolaire ( talk) 17:10, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
And again, these edits by Primergrey seem to be based on what that editor sees as correct capitalisation, without looking at context, and oblivious to the fact that many of the words or phrases changed to lowercase are in fact proper names (especially "the North" and "the Republic"). I have reverted the most egregious ones. Scolaire ( talk) 13:02, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I haven't used talk pages before so apologies if this is the wrong format. I'm confused by the phrase "Sinn Féin was proclaimed in County Cork" in the summary. Is it missing a word (i.e. "Sinn Féin was proclaimed the rightful government of County Cork")? If not, what does it mean to proclaim Sinn Féin? I certainly don't know, and I doubt that the average English-speaking reader knows either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.172.17.58 ( talk) 00:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
I think it would make more sense to have Cathal Brugha listed as a political leader rather than a military commander since he was President of Dáil Éireann at the start of the war and then Minister for Defense afterwards. I also think that James Macmahon and John Anderson should be listed as British political leaders since they were the Under-Secretaries for Ireland and thus heads of the administration in Ireland during the war. 2601:84:847F:2DF0:5C9D:F54F:6FED:EA3 ( talk) 00:06, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
In theory, both Collins and Mulcahy were responsible to Cathal Brugha, the Dáil's Minister of Defence, but, in practice, Brugha had only a supervisory role, recommending or objecting to specific actions. A great deal also depended on IRA leaders in local areas (such as Liam Lynch, Tom Barry, Seán Moylan, Seán Mac Eoin and Ernie O'Malley) who organised guerrilla activity, largely on their own initiative.
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 11, 2005, July 11, 2009, and July 11, 2010. |
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A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
|
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This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
I find this article to be biased in its treatment of the various atrocities. Those carried out by the British regiments are clearly shown but the IRA murder of civilians gains little mention. There is one paragraph which begins; "The years between the Easter Rising of 1916 and the beginning of the War of Independence in 1919 were not bloodless." This is an understatment. Clearly there is dispute over the numbers provided by, say, Peter Hart in his work but the fact that the IRA did murder civilians is indisputable. There is a further reference as below; "Much of the IRA's popularity arose from the excessive reaction of the British forces to IRA activity. When Éamon de Valera returned from the United States, he demanded in the Dáil that the IRA desist from the ambushes and assassinations, which were allowing the British to portray it as a terrorist group and to take on the British forces with conventional military methods. The proposal was immediately dismissed" I think it important to note the violence carried out by the IRA and that there is a large unknown quantity. This IRA violence as hinted by the reference above is what caused many of the atrocities of the British army. It was these atrocities that garnered so much support from the general public both in Ireland and the UK. I will consider drafting some proposed changes but I would like to hear a few opinions on my statements.
87.115.7.142 ( talk) 19:42, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
I think your statements will be hard to swallow for some, but they are in my opinion, necessary changes to make. It was a dirty war and we get nowhere pretending the dirtyness was all down to one side. I say make your changes because as it stands its very biased. 146.200.201.141 ( talk) 19:51, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
Are any of the above editors proposing an actual change or changes? Guliolopez ( talk) 14:44, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
The first section of Origins of the Conflict starts by saying this: "Since the 1870s, Irish nationalists in the Irish Parliamentary Party (IPP) had been demanding Home Rule, or self-government, from Britain, while not ruling out eventual complete independence. Fringe organisations, such as Arthur Griffith's Sinn Féin, instead argued for some form of immediate Irish independence, but they were in a small minority." That's about all it says about the origins. So what were the Irish grievances? This piece says nothing. The Origins section needs a subsection describing the state of the country in the decades before the Easter Rising. We need to see something about the absentee landlords, the state of the Democracy and why the Irish felt it was inadequate, and the socio-economic conditions. — MiguelMunoz ( talk) 06:52, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
This edit by Ahsanullah Al Mamun (Fixed a plethora of grammatical errors and added clarity to the article) gives the impression that the editor fed the article through Microsoft Word grammar check or equivalent, and made any changes the machine suggested, without looking at the sense of the sentences, or their context, or even the variety of English in use. For instance:
I have reverted. Scolaire ( talk) 17:10, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
And again, these edits by Primergrey seem to be based on what that editor sees as correct capitalisation, without looking at context, and oblivious to the fact that many of the words or phrases changed to lowercase are in fact proper names (especially "the North" and "the Republic"). I have reverted the most egregious ones. Scolaire ( talk) 13:02, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I haven't used talk pages before so apologies if this is the wrong format. I'm confused by the phrase "Sinn Féin was proclaimed in County Cork" in the summary. Is it missing a word (i.e. "Sinn Féin was proclaimed the rightful government of County Cork")? If not, what does it mean to proclaim Sinn Féin? I certainly don't know, and I doubt that the average English-speaking reader knows either. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.172.17.58 ( talk) 00:36, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
I think it would make more sense to have Cathal Brugha listed as a political leader rather than a military commander since he was President of Dáil Éireann at the start of the war and then Minister for Defense afterwards. I also think that James Macmahon and John Anderson should be listed as British political leaders since they were the Under-Secretaries for Ireland and thus heads of the administration in Ireland during the war. 2601:84:847F:2DF0:5C9D:F54F:6FED:EA3 ( talk) 00:06, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
In theory, both Collins and Mulcahy were responsible to Cathal Brugha, the Dáil's Minister of Defence, but, in practice, Brugha had only a supervisory role, recommending or objecting to specific actions. A great deal also depended on IRA leaders in local areas (such as Liam Lynch, Tom Barry, Seán Moylan, Seán Mac Eoin and Ernie O'Malley) who organised guerrilla activity, largely on their own initiative.