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ROI Stats: 3.6m travelers cross the Irish sea each year, amounting to 92% of all sea travel to and from the Republic. CSO This has been steadly dropping for a number of years (20% since 1999), probably as a result of low cost airlines.
Dublin Airport: 50% of traffic is to/from Britian @ 8.3 million per annum, up 5%. 26% is for London @ 4.5 million.
Sea-Cargo trade with UK: 19m Tonnes of cargo handled by Irish ports, 40% of all sea trade by weight. Main ports are *Dublin (11,573kT 64%) *Rosslare (1,839kT 85%) *Dun Laoghaire (160kT 100%) *Drogheda (181kT 14%) Waterford (672kT 28%) *Wicklow (2kT 1%) *New Ross (401kT 40%) Galway (611kT 60%) Shannon-Foynes port (1,345kT 10%) (Source: Table 10 of this CSO pdf 2004 figures). 2004 figures are up by 3.4% by weight while number of ships is down 5%. 73% is import and 27% export. *Ports are Irish Sea ports.
UK Ports on Irish Sea:
Liverpool (32mT cargo, 734k passangers, up 2% [2])
Car Ferries of the Irish Sea 1954-2004 by Justin Merrigan
Republic of Ireland: New Ross, Waterford, Rosslare, Arklow, Wicklow, Dun Laoghaire, Dublin, Drogheda, Dundalk, Greenore. Northern Ireland: Bangor? Belfast, Larne, Portrush? Scotland: Cairmryan Stranraer Isle of Man: fishing ports of Port St Mary and Port Erin, Douglas. North England: Liverpool, Fleetwood, Blackpool?, Preston? SouthPort, Birkenhead, Ellesmere Port. Wales: Holyhead, Pembroke Dock.
Seabhcán 21:57, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
As for the English ports - Yes, except for Preston; Blackpool's not really a port either. Heysham, Barrow-in-Furness and Whitehaven could all be included too Robdurbar 09:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Workington and Silloth in Cumbria are both working freight ports too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.176.163.106 ( talk) 10:24, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
The principal Irish Sea working cargo ports in Northern Ireland are at Larne (Co Antrim), Belfast and Warrenpoint (Co Down). Bangor (Co Down) is now mainly a leisure port (marina) as is Carrickfergus (Co Antrim). Portavogie, Ardglass and Kilkeel, all Co Down, are the main fishing ports.
Portrush (Co Antrim) is on Northern Ireland's Atlantic coast so shouldn't be included.
In (North West) England, Southport (Merseyside) hasn't been a port for quite a while. It's a seaside resort. Preston (Lancashire)ceased to be a working port in the 1980s and is now a leisure port (marina).
In Wales, Mostyn (Flintshire?) might be added as a small working port and Fishguard as a ferry port. Ellesmere Port is in Wales rather then in England.
In Scotland, there are working ports on the Firth of Clyde (e.g. Ardrossan), if that's included in the Irish Sea for the purposes of this article?
Aughnadarragh 09:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry - temorary insanity. Ellesmere Port IS in England - I can't tell my Connah's Quay from my elbow! Aughnadarragh 09:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I removed the map from the page because it is wrong; it was replaced, the argument being 'its accurate, if not precise enough for you then improve it'.
First of all, it is not accurate. Heysham and Fleetwood are both 50-100 miles too far north on the map, on the wrong side of Morecambe Bay. Including this makes Wikipedia look amateuristic [almsot as much as my spelling :)].
Secondly, I have searched for a more accurate and appropriate map on the internet and could not find one available. However, I would argue that we should not be including inaccurate material just because there is nothing better available. Robdurbar 09:42, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Ah... you know its never actually occured to me to edit an image Ive found on Wikipedia. Thats actually a very good idea. But thanks for your rudness Robdurbar 17:58, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone add more info on the possible plans of contructing a tunnel and/or bridge across to the other side? Either from Northern Ireland to Scotland or from the Republic of Ireland over to Wales. I am also quite curious as to whether any steps have been taken to decide to build infrastructure links across the:
Anyone with inside knowledge on any of these? I've posted similar requests elsewhere. Gruesome Twosome! 8v // Big Adamsky 20:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I have been googling around and get conflicting answers but I have not come across a reputable citable source. Can you help? -- Publunch 23:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
I am not convinced that any of the quoted information about nuclear/chemical waste has any truth behind it. Sounds a touch anti-British --Jimio 20:18, 23 Jan 2005
I think the map could be improved, to show such features as The Solway Firth and Cardigan Bay. -- Publunch 23:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I've just started a disambiguation page at the formerly blank Irish Channel article, mostly for the neighborhood in my home town of New Orleans, Irish Channel, New Orleans. I fear I'm not sure what the other usage of the term "Irish Channel" in some articles refers to; if it is the Irish Sea in general, the North Channel, St. George's Channel, or what. I took a guess from context that it's the first, but correction/expansion or confirmation would be very welcome. Thank you, -- Infrogmation 17:06, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
This Irish Sea article is being used to promote a tunnel agenda. (any criticism of said tunnel is ironed out very quickly, and I don't see how Danish bridge projects across much shorter stretches can be compared to a long tunnel) Perhaps the whole tunnel thing should be moved to seperate article.
"Also, while the Ireland is a smaller country, the Irish Sea is one of the busiest in the world, and more people fly from Dublin to London than nearly anywhere else (Busiest route in the EU, second in the world)."
The English Channel is busier than any Irish Sea crossing, and Paris - London used to be the busiest air route in the EU before the tunnel was built. Despite this, the Channel Tunnel has still made massive losses.
"Finally, London (~6m) and Paris(~3m) are not "the two largest cities in Europe". Moscow (11m) and Istambul(10m) are."
The largest cities in the EU then. It still doesn't take away from the fact that despite the combined populations of France, Belgium and the UK (some 110 million) the Channel Tunnel has not been successful. How anybody could argue that a much longer tunnel linking Ireland and the UK would therefore be successful, is frankly beyond me. Wether it is privately or publically funded is a moot point, experience with the Channel Tunnel shows that the passenger numbers just aren't high enough to justify the investment.
You can't really compare the Danish Oresund link, because it is a much smaller project, and is actually mostly a bridge. And if you are going to say that things have been "deemed a success" then I think you should quote a source.
I really don't think that an article about the Irish Sea should be used as a platform to promote somebody's tunnel pipe dream.
I'm not saying finance is the only thing that matters. The Luas is definitely successfull in terms of passenger numbers, the Channel Tunnel is not. More people still cross the channel by boat than by tunnel.
The part of this article about oil reservoirs is based on factual Geology about stuff that is actually in the ground.
I've just come from Islands of the North Atlantic. Is this still an appropriate name in that context? If not, what should it be: British/Welsh/Scottish/Manx Sea all seem unexceptable, and the mind boggles as to variations on the "Sea in the North Atlantic Islands". -- User:Jimfbleak, June 2003
Since Ireland has a load of water round the back end of it, why can't the Irish make that their sea? Wales is entirely surrounded by this "Irish" sea and I heard Plaid Cymru are gonna appeal to the European Court of Human Rights about it. Also have we no sensitivity for the people of the Isle of Man at all? This neo-imperialist Irish crypto-überism is really a disgrace.-- feline1 11:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Could we have a reference for this rather than "I believe etc." -- sony-youth pléigh 23:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Smiled when I saw this...
Am I the only one who'd love to add "such as the lovely radioactive lobsters and oysters".
Yes, yes, it's exaggerating things a bit. I still wouldn't want to eat such things from the Irish Sea, the pollution levels on the West coast (Atlantic) just being that much lower.
zoney ♣ talk 22:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of July 15, 2024, compares against the six good article criteria:
When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far. -- Esprit15d 20:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Anyone have any idea how the territorial waters work out in the Irish Sea? Obviously, everyone gets their 12 nm around their own coast, but does the UK claim any sort of archipelagic extension based on the Isle of Man?
-- Tom Anderson 2007-05-02 19:46 +0100 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.40.81.196 ( talk) 18:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC).
The Isle of Man Government is a self-governing UK Dependency and has its own 12-mile territorial waters, which I understand it pays the UK's Royal Navy to patrol. The UK 12-mile limit from Northern Ireland overlaps with that of the UK 12-mile limit from Scotland to cover the whole of the North Channel. The 200-mile exclusive economic zone of the UK overlaps in the Irish Sea with that of the Republic of Ireland to produce an agreed marine border along the median line of the Irish Sea.
Remember that the Isle of Man is nearer to the coast of Co Down in Northern Ireland than that of Co Louth in the Republic of Ireland. Aughnadarragh 14:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I have edited the Environment section in an attempt to provide a more comprehensive description of the impact of discharges from Sellafield on the environment. I am aware that the environment of this area is not solely informed by radioactive discharges from Sellafield, but it does appear to be the highest profile of influences so I think more detail on this specific subject is warranted.
I have removed some subjects that the previous revision only touched upon, on the basis that they seemed to consist only of “may be” and “possibly” which doesn’t seem particularly encyclopaedic to me.
I also think that there was an element of listing nuclear related installations located on the west coast of Great Britain without stating their relevance to the environment so I have removed these. On the same principle of limited relative impact I have removed mention of Chernobyl and Irish sources of contamination. All of these inevitably have some contribution but my research indicates that compared to Sellafield they are comparatively negligible. I will endeavour to cite sources here if anyone feels there is sufficient cause to challenge this.
The use of scare quotes in the previous version to imply reservations about the statement that radioactive levels were safe seems inappropriate to me given that evidence seems to prove quite conclusively that they are indeed safe (certainly as far as the Irish population is concerned and certainly for everyone in terms of limits on exposure set by the EU). I am aware that the final paragraph might read like a defence of the nuclear industry. It is not meant to be. I include it as an attempt to put the issue into some perspective. The information is almost entirely sourced from the reports published by each body charged by their respective governments with monitoring radioactivity in this environment. The only exception is the UK figure for average annual dose, sourced from a different report in order to match the information provided by the Irish.
Finally, I am new to Wikipedia so if I have perpetrated any errors of style, formatting, etiquette etc please forgive me and please help me to get it right. -- FactotEm 12:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Would "Environment" be the appropriate heading for content on the biodiversity of the Irish Sea and its conservation? Or might that be better under a 'Biodiversity' sub-heading with the current content of 'Environment' under "Pollution" with a sub-heading of "Radioactive Effluent? Aughnadarragh 13:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Proposed biodiversity text (lacking references as yet); derived from a summary of existing text I contributed to the website of The Wildlife Trust for Lancashire, Manchester & North Merseyside.
The most accessible and possibly the greatest wildlife resource of the Irish Sea lies in its estuaries: particularly the Dee Estuary, the Mersey Estuary, the Ribble Estuary, Morecambe Bay, the Solway Firth, Loch Ryan, the Firth of Clyde, Belfast Lough, Strangford Lough, Carlingford Lough, Dundalk Bay, Dublin Bay and the Wexford Slobs. However, lots of wildlife also depends on the cliffs, saltmarshes and sand dunes of the adjoining shores, the seabed and the open sea itself.
The information on the invertebrates of the seabed of the Irish Sea is rather patchy because it's difficult to survey such a large area, where underwater visibility is often poor and information often depends on looking at material brought up from the seabed in mechanical grabs. However, as one might expect, the groupings of animals present depend to a large extent on whether the seabed is composed of rock, boulders, gravel, sand, mud or even peat. In the soft sediments seven types of community have been provisionally identified, variously dominated by brittle-stars, sea urchins, worms, mussels, tellins, furrow-shells, and tower-shells.
Parts of the bed of the Irish Sea are very rich in wildlife. The seabed southwest of the Isle of Man is particularly noted for its rarities and diversity, as are the horse mussel beds of Strangford Lough, Co Down. Scallops and queen scallops are found in more gravely areas. In the estuaries, where the bed is more sandy or muddy, the number of species is smaller but the size of their populations is larger. Brown shrimps, cockles and edible mussels support local fisheries in Morecambe Bay and the Dee Estuary and the estuaries are also important as nurseries for flatfish, herring and sea bass. Muddy seabeds in deeper waters are home to populations of the Dublin Bay prawn, also known as "scampi".
The open sea is a complex habitat in its own right, though one that is entirely alien to us and consequently hard to understand. It exists in three spatial dimensions and also varies over time and tide. For example, where freshwater flows into the Irish Sea in river estuaries its influence can extend far offshore as the freshwater is lighter and "floats" on top of the much larger body of saltwater until wind and temperature changes mix it in. Similarly, warmer water is less dense and seawater warmed in the inter-tidal zone may "float" on the colder offshore water. The amount of light penetrating the seawater also varies with depth and turbidity. This leads to differing populations of plankton in different parts of the sea and varying communities of animals that feed on these populations. However, increasing seasonal storminess leads to greater mixing of water and tends to break down these divisions, which are more apparent when the weather is calm for long periods.
Plankton includes viruses, bacteria, plants (phytoplankton) and animals (zooplankton) that drift in the sea. Most are microscopic, but some - such as the various species of jellyfish and sea-gooseberry - can be much bigger.
Diatoms and dinoflagellates dominate the phytoplankton. Although they are microscopic plants, diatoms have hard shells and dinoflagellates have little tails that propel them through the water. Phytoplankton populations in the Irish Sea have a spring "bloom" every April and May, when the seawater is generally at its greenest.
Crustaceans, especially copepods, dominate the zooplankton. However, many animals of the seabed, the open sea and the seashore spend their juvenile stages as part of the zooplankton. The whole plankton "soup" is vitally important, directly or indirectly, as a food source for most species in the Irish Sea, even the largest. The enormous Basking Shark, for example, lives entirely on plankton and the Leatherback Turtle's main food is jellyfish.
A colossal diversity of invertebrate species lives in the Irish Sea and its surrounding coastline, ranging from flower-like fan-worms to predatory swimming-crabs to large chameleon-like cuttlefish. Some of the most significant for other wildlife are the reef-building species like the inshore Horse Mussel of Strangford Lough, Co. Down and the inter-tidal Honeycomb Worm of Morecambe Bay, Cumbria and Lancashire. These build up large structures over many years and, in turn, provide surfaces, nooks and crannies where other marine animals and plants may become established and live out some or all of their lives.
There are quite regular records of live and stranded Leatherback Turtle in and around the Irish Sea. This species travels north to the waters off the British Isles every year following the swarms of jellyfish that form its prey. Loggerhead Turtle, Ridley's Turtle and Green Turtle are found very occasionally in the Irish Sea but are generally unwell or dead when discovered. They have strayed or been swept out of their natural range further south into our colder waters.
The estuaries of the Irish Sea are of international importance for birds. They are vital feeding grounds on migration flyways for shorebirds travelling between the Arctic and Africa. Others depend on their milder climate as a refuge when continental Europe is in the grip of winter.
Twenty-one species of seabird are reported as regularly nesting on beaches or cliffs around the Irish Sea.
Huge populations of the sea duck, Common Scoter, spend winters feeding in shallow waters off eastern Ireland, Lancashire and North Wales.
Whales, dolphins and porpoises all frequent the Irish Sea, but our knowledge of how many there may be and where they go is somewhat sketchy. About a dozen species have been recorded since 1980, but only three are seen fairly often. These are the Harbour Porpoise, Bottlenose Dolphin and Common Dolphin. The more rarely seen species are Minke Whale, Fin Whale, Sei Whale, Sperm Whale, Northern Bottlenose Whale, Long-finned Pilot Whale, Killer Whale or Orca, White-beaked Dolphin, Striped Dolphin and Risso's Dolphin.
The Common or Harbour Seal and the Grey Seal are both resident in the Irish Sea. Common seals breed in Strangford Lough, Co Down, grey seals in south west Wales and, in small numbers, on the Isle of Man. Grey Seals haul out, but do not breed, off the islands of Hilbre, Wirral, Merseyside and Walney, Barrow-in-Furness Borough, Cumbria.
Aughnadarragh 15:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The populations given in this table are pretty meaningless. Dublin has not got 500,000 people it has 1,500,000 or something (see Dublin). The borders of the county pretty well define the City of Dublin as it is commonly spoken of and understood - I live in Sandyford which is part of "Dun Laoghaire" according to this table (or maybe not - where does that figure come from?) but anybody asked "where is Sandyford (or Blackrock)" would say "Dublin". Maybe delete the table if it can't be made more meaning full. And Liverpool 400,000 people? I thought it had 3 million or something? ( Sarah777 10:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC))
Liverpool is a smaller city than Dublin in city, metro and urban measures but you are correct. Measuring by city limits is silly because different cities have different city council boundaries for political reasons and they are by no means a measure of the population of the city as a whole. Dublin's urban area is 1.1 million and its metro area is 1.8 million, according to its wikipedia page. It would probably be most sensible to choose the 1.1 million figure because the "urban" measure is the most common practice on wikipedia and encyclopaedias in general. It's kind of indicative of the Irish inferiority complex to assume Liverpool is a larger city by default. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.61.1.90 ( talk) 03:12, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
I made a new Irish Sea Tunnel so the stuff in here that isn't really relvant I removed. Anyone apart from Tangerine have a problem with that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alien from brixton ( talk • contribs) 20:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Not really I did some research on Irish Sea Tunnel and it's not really relevant beacuse it's speculative and furutistic —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alien from brixton ( talk • contribs) 20:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The section seems relevant and sourced to me so I've put it back. -- NeilN talk ♦ contribs 06:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Alien from brixton, before you revert again please take note of the three revert rule. Thanks. -- NeilN talk ♦ contribs 06:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not relevant it just needs a sentence, and anyway it's wrong. It goes on about there being an economic case for a link when really there is none it's just a lot of hot air. Alien from brixton ( talk) 18:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I say it's wrong and I know more than you. It says that there is an economic case by just flinging around without figures about current commuinications without considering how to build it properly and how to finance it. It just an editor with a pipe dream. Alien from brixton ( talk) 20:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
There could be an economic case for such a link. The Irish sea is one of the busiest shipping regions in the world and has the world's largest car ferry—Irish Ferries Ulysses.[31] In addition, half of the air traffic at Dublin Airport is to Britain, with 8,300,000 passengers per annum. The Dublin-London air route is the busiest in the European Union and the second busiest in the world, with about 50 daily flights and 4.5 million passengers per annum. The success of the 15 km Oresund Bridge, inaugurated in 2000 and linking Malmö, Sweden and Copenhagen, Denmark, which has led to important economic integration between the two cities, suggests that the Dublin–Holyhead route may be the most promising.[32] With the addition of High-speed rail, such a tunnel could cut journey times from the northern English cities of Liverpool and Manchester to Dublin to under an hour. The combined population of the three metropolitan areas is over 5 million. The line would probably be built to standard gauge, which is narrower than the Irish broad gauge, meaning that onward trains would have to use variable gauge axles, or some Irish lines would have to be regauged to standard gauge or dual gauge to overcome the resultant break of gauge.
-- NeilN talk ♦ contribs 21:12, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to point out is the flag of the Republic of Ireland; not the island of Ireland. Trust me folks, there's a big difference. GoodDay ( talk) 16:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
We can not use for Ireland (the whole island), until & if the island is re-united. GoodDay ( talk) 17:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Nope, not the correct flag. GoodDay ( talk) 17:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I believe England, Wales & Northern Ireland should be using this flag , to show equality with the Republic of Ireland. -- GoodDay ( talk) 18:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Seems to me like people are confusing the name of the state - which is "Ireland" - and the name of the article - which is "Republic of Ireland". The article is only named "Republic of Ireland" to avoid confusion - not as an indication that it a valid or correct term. It is perfectly correct to use for Ireland - in fact, that's exactly the only perfectly correct use in the English language. -- Bardcom ( talk) 19:10, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I removed the flags altogether. The use of Image:NIShape.gif as a flag stand-in is especially in violation of Wikipedia:Manual of Style (flags) (section 2.7), and really, per section 2.5, there really isn't any big need to use any of them in this small table. — Andrwsc ( talk · contribs) 23:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I often wondered. Do the British object to the name Irish Sea (as the Irish are claimed to object to British Isles)? Does anybody have any citations for it? If so, should it be added to this article? GoodDay ( talk) 16:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, I wonder if women living on the Isle of Man are offended by that Isle's name? giggle. Anyways, I'll leave the content here (and at British Isles) to others, to argue over. GoodDay ( talk) 23:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
The lead section claims that the Isle of Man is the biggest island in the Irish Sea, but I would have thought that was Anglesey. Am I missing something? -- Avenue ( talk) 09:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I propose removing the Cumbric language name for the Irish Sea. Cumbric is an extinct language not spoken since the 12th century. There is very little written evidence of Cumbric, so the name as stated in the article would, I assume, be someone's attempt at "re-creating" a Cumbric variant for the term. There is also no reference for the source of the term, indicating Original Research in my opinion. Thoughts anyone? -- MacTire02 ( talk) 12:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Should some mention be made of Chester in this article? - either as one of the "surrounding towns", or elsewhere. Historically (especially before the growth of Liverpool) Chester was a major port for trade and invasions from England across the Irish Sea - see History of Chester#Middle Ages - although subsequently the Dee estuary silted up. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 14:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
The original claim made in this edit was that "its name in Manx and Irish translates as "Mann Sea" or "Manx Sea"." That's true, but that is not the same by any means as saying that the Irish Sea is also known as the Mann Sea or Manx Sea in the English language. I don't see any evidence that the Irish Sea as a whole is known by those terms in the English language, although it may be true of the waters around the Isle of Man specifically. Can anyone provide any sources that show that the Irish Sea as a whole is also known in the English language as the Mann Sea or Manx Sea? Ghmyrtle ( talk) 17:45, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I visited the article to find out who named the sea, and when. My previously unquestioned assumption was that it was named by seafarers (Britons or Continentals) to designate the body of water that conveyed them to Ireland, but it would be interesting to find confirmation of the actual source of the name, if this information is reliably recorded. — O'Dea ( talk) 21:20, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I was seeking depths of the Irish Sea after learning that Ireland separated from Great Britain 2,500 years before Great Britain separated from the Continent. There is not mention of the sea's structure or its depths anywhere in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Westcider ( talk • contribs) 13:11, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
The following towns are not on the coast of the Irish Sea:
I haven't looked at the islands listed in the table below it.
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I updated most populations in this table to current figures, per their articles. Except for the top 3: Dublin, Liverpool and Belfast. For these cities there are a number of figures: city proper, urban and metro. Using metro figures would put Liverpool first. None of the Belfast article figures seem to match what's in the table. So I'll leave the top 3 update to others. Declangi ( talk) 10:35, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Is this section necessary or helpful? It covers the formation of the sea in geological time, and then moves on to a poorly written summary of invasions across the sea which are covered better in other articles. I propose that the section be deleted. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 15:00, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Can we get some more consistency in the "Region/province" section of the "Cities and towns" section? I don't have an obvious solution, but it's a bit of a mess. At present, the table shows, for England, the statistical region of each town; for Wales, the preserved county; and for Ireland, the historical province. None of these equate to current administrative areas, which would probably be more useful, and they are not consistent with each other. If we think it's best to use historical divisions, it would make more sense to use the historic counties for England - or just delete that column as we already have "County". Any thoughts? Ghmyrtle ( talk) 15:50, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
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ROI Stats: 3.6m travelers cross the Irish sea each year, amounting to 92% of all sea travel to and from the Republic. CSO This has been steadly dropping for a number of years (20% since 1999), probably as a result of low cost airlines.
Dublin Airport: 50% of traffic is to/from Britian @ 8.3 million per annum, up 5%. 26% is for London @ 4.5 million.
Sea-Cargo trade with UK: 19m Tonnes of cargo handled by Irish ports, 40% of all sea trade by weight. Main ports are *Dublin (11,573kT 64%) *Rosslare (1,839kT 85%) *Dun Laoghaire (160kT 100%) *Drogheda (181kT 14%) Waterford (672kT 28%) *Wicklow (2kT 1%) *New Ross (401kT 40%) Galway (611kT 60%) Shannon-Foynes port (1,345kT 10%) (Source: Table 10 of this CSO pdf 2004 figures). 2004 figures are up by 3.4% by weight while number of ships is down 5%. 73% is import and 27% export. *Ports are Irish Sea ports.
UK Ports on Irish Sea:
Liverpool (32mT cargo, 734k passangers, up 2% [2])
Car Ferries of the Irish Sea 1954-2004 by Justin Merrigan
Republic of Ireland: New Ross, Waterford, Rosslare, Arklow, Wicklow, Dun Laoghaire, Dublin, Drogheda, Dundalk, Greenore. Northern Ireland: Bangor? Belfast, Larne, Portrush? Scotland: Cairmryan Stranraer Isle of Man: fishing ports of Port St Mary and Port Erin, Douglas. North England: Liverpool, Fleetwood, Blackpool?, Preston? SouthPort, Birkenhead, Ellesmere Port. Wales: Holyhead, Pembroke Dock.
Seabhcán 21:57, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
As for the English ports - Yes, except for Preston; Blackpool's not really a port either. Heysham, Barrow-in-Furness and Whitehaven could all be included too Robdurbar 09:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Workington and Silloth in Cumbria are both working freight ports too —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.176.163.106 ( talk) 10:24, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
The principal Irish Sea working cargo ports in Northern Ireland are at Larne (Co Antrim), Belfast and Warrenpoint (Co Down). Bangor (Co Down) is now mainly a leisure port (marina) as is Carrickfergus (Co Antrim). Portavogie, Ardglass and Kilkeel, all Co Down, are the main fishing ports.
Portrush (Co Antrim) is on Northern Ireland's Atlantic coast so shouldn't be included.
In (North West) England, Southport (Merseyside) hasn't been a port for quite a while. It's a seaside resort. Preston (Lancashire)ceased to be a working port in the 1980s and is now a leisure port (marina).
In Wales, Mostyn (Flintshire?) might be added as a small working port and Fishguard as a ferry port. Ellesmere Port is in Wales rather then in England.
In Scotland, there are working ports on the Firth of Clyde (e.g. Ardrossan), if that's included in the Irish Sea for the purposes of this article?
Aughnadarragh 09:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry - temorary insanity. Ellesmere Port IS in England - I can't tell my Connah's Quay from my elbow! Aughnadarragh 09:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
I removed the map from the page because it is wrong; it was replaced, the argument being 'its accurate, if not precise enough for you then improve it'.
First of all, it is not accurate. Heysham and Fleetwood are both 50-100 miles too far north on the map, on the wrong side of Morecambe Bay. Including this makes Wikipedia look amateuristic [almsot as much as my spelling :)].
Secondly, I have searched for a more accurate and appropriate map on the internet and could not find one available. However, I would argue that we should not be including inaccurate material just because there is nothing better available. Robdurbar 09:42, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Ah... you know its never actually occured to me to edit an image Ive found on Wikipedia. Thats actually a very good idea. But thanks for your rudness Robdurbar 17:58, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Can anyone add more info on the possible plans of contructing a tunnel and/or bridge across to the other side? Either from Northern Ireland to Scotland or from the Republic of Ireland over to Wales. I am also quite curious as to whether any steps have been taken to decide to build infrastructure links across the:
Anyone with inside knowledge on any of these? I've posted similar requests elsewhere. Gruesome Twosome! 8v // Big Adamsky 20:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I have been googling around and get conflicting answers but I have not come across a reputable citable source. Can you help? -- Publunch 23:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
I am not convinced that any of the quoted information about nuclear/chemical waste has any truth behind it. Sounds a touch anti-British --Jimio 20:18, 23 Jan 2005
I think the map could be improved, to show such features as The Solway Firth and Cardigan Bay. -- Publunch 23:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I've just started a disambiguation page at the formerly blank Irish Channel article, mostly for the neighborhood in my home town of New Orleans, Irish Channel, New Orleans. I fear I'm not sure what the other usage of the term "Irish Channel" in some articles refers to; if it is the Irish Sea in general, the North Channel, St. George's Channel, or what. I took a guess from context that it's the first, but correction/expansion or confirmation would be very welcome. Thank you, -- Infrogmation 17:06, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
This Irish Sea article is being used to promote a tunnel agenda. (any criticism of said tunnel is ironed out very quickly, and I don't see how Danish bridge projects across much shorter stretches can be compared to a long tunnel) Perhaps the whole tunnel thing should be moved to seperate article.
"Also, while the Ireland is a smaller country, the Irish Sea is one of the busiest in the world, and more people fly from Dublin to London than nearly anywhere else (Busiest route in the EU, second in the world)."
The English Channel is busier than any Irish Sea crossing, and Paris - London used to be the busiest air route in the EU before the tunnel was built. Despite this, the Channel Tunnel has still made massive losses.
"Finally, London (~6m) and Paris(~3m) are not "the two largest cities in Europe". Moscow (11m) and Istambul(10m) are."
The largest cities in the EU then. It still doesn't take away from the fact that despite the combined populations of France, Belgium and the UK (some 110 million) the Channel Tunnel has not been successful. How anybody could argue that a much longer tunnel linking Ireland and the UK would therefore be successful, is frankly beyond me. Wether it is privately or publically funded is a moot point, experience with the Channel Tunnel shows that the passenger numbers just aren't high enough to justify the investment.
You can't really compare the Danish Oresund link, because it is a much smaller project, and is actually mostly a bridge. And if you are going to say that things have been "deemed a success" then I think you should quote a source.
I really don't think that an article about the Irish Sea should be used as a platform to promote somebody's tunnel pipe dream.
I'm not saying finance is the only thing that matters. The Luas is definitely successfull in terms of passenger numbers, the Channel Tunnel is not. More people still cross the channel by boat than by tunnel.
The part of this article about oil reservoirs is based on factual Geology about stuff that is actually in the ground.
I've just come from Islands of the North Atlantic. Is this still an appropriate name in that context? If not, what should it be: British/Welsh/Scottish/Manx Sea all seem unexceptable, and the mind boggles as to variations on the "Sea in the North Atlantic Islands". -- User:Jimfbleak, June 2003
Since Ireland has a load of water round the back end of it, why can't the Irish make that their sea? Wales is entirely surrounded by this "Irish" sea and I heard Plaid Cymru are gonna appeal to the European Court of Human Rights about it. Also have we no sensitivity for the people of the Isle of Man at all? This neo-imperialist Irish crypto-überism is really a disgrace.-- feline1 11:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Could we have a reference for this rather than "I believe etc." -- sony-youth pléigh 23:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Smiled when I saw this...
Am I the only one who'd love to add "such as the lovely radioactive lobsters and oysters".
Yes, yes, it's exaggerating things a bit. I still wouldn't want to eat such things from the Irish Sea, the pollution levels on the West coast (Atlantic) just being that much lower.
zoney ♣ talk 22:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of July 15, 2024, compares against the six good article criteria:
When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far. -- Esprit15d 20:37, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Anyone have any idea how the territorial waters work out in the Irish Sea? Obviously, everyone gets their 12 nm around their own coast, but does the UK claim any sort of archipelagic extension based on the Isle of Man?
-- Tom Anderson 2007-05-02 19:46 +0100 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.40.81.196 ( talk) 18:46, 2 May 2007 (UTC).
The Isle of Man Government is a self-governing UK Dependency and has its own 12-mile territorial waters, which I understand it pays the UK's Royal Navy to patrol. The UK 12-mile limit from Northern Ireland overlaps with that of the UK 12-mile limit from Scotland to cover the whole of the North Channel. The 200-mile exclusive economic zone of the UK overlaps in the Irish Sea with that of the Republic of Ireland to produce an agreed marine border along the median line of the Irish Sea.
Remember that the Isle of Man is nearer to the coast of Co Down in Northern Ireland than that of Co Louth in the Republic of Ireland. Aughnadarragh 14:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I have edited the Environment section in an attempt to provide a more comprehensive description of the impact of discharges from Sellafield on the environment. I am aware that the environment of this area is not solely informed by radioactive discharges from Sellafield, but it does appear to be the highest profile of influences so I think more detail on this specific subject is warranted.
I have removed some subjects that the previous revision only touched upon, on the basis that they seemed to consist only of “may be” and “possibly” which doesn’t seem particularly encyclopaedic to me.
I also think that there was an element of listing nuclear related installations located on the west coast of Great Britain without stating their relevance to the environment so I have removed these. On the same principle of limited relative impact I have removed mention of Chernobyl and Irish sources of contamination. All of these inevitably have some contribution but my research indicates that compared to Sellafield they are comparatively negligible. I will endeavour to cite sources here if anyone feels there is sufficient cause to challenge this.
The use of scare quotes in the previous version to imply reservations about the statement that radioactive levels were safe seems inappropriate to me given that evidence seems to prove quite conclusively that they are indeed safe (certainly as far as the Irish population is concerned and certainly for everyone in terms of limits on exposure set by the EU). I am aware that the final paragraph might read like a defence of the nuclear industry. It is not meant to be. I include it as an attempt to put the issue into some perspective. The information is almost entirely sourced from the reports published by each body charged by their respective governments with monitoring radioactivity in this environment. The only exception is the UK figure for average annual dose, sourced from a different report in order to match the information provided by the Irish.
Finally, I am new to Wikipedia so if I have perpetrated any errors of style, formatting, etiquette etc please forgive me and please help me to get it right. -- FactotEm 12:01, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Would "Environment" be the appropriate heading for content on the biodiversity of the Irish Sea and its conservation? Or might that be better under a 'Biodiversity' sub-heading with the current content of 'Environment' under "Pollution" with a sub-heading of "Radioactive Effluent? Aughnadarragh 13:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Proposed biodiversity text (lacking references as yet); derived from a summary of existing text I contributed to the website of The Wildlife Trust for Lancashire, Manchester & North Merseyside.
The most accessible and possibly the greatest wildlife resource of the Irish Sea lies in its estuaries: particularly the Dee Estuary, the Mersey Estuary, the Ribble Estuary, Morecambe Bay, the Solway Firth, Loch Ryan, the Firth of Clyde, Belfast Lough, Strangford Lough, Carlingford Lough, Dundalk Bay, Dublin Bay and the Wexford Slobs. However, lots of wildlife also depends on the cliffs, saltmarshes and sand dunes of the adjoining shores, the seabed and the open sea itself.
The information on the invertebrates of the seabed of the Irish Sea is rather patchy because it's difficult to survey such a large area, where underwater visibility is often poor and information often depends on looking at material brought up from the seabed in mechanical grabs. However, as one might expect, the groupings of animals present depend to a large extent on whether the seabed is composed of rock, boulders, gravel, sand, mud or even peat. In the soft sediments seven types of community have been provisionally identified, variously dominated by brittle-stars, sea urchins, worms, mussels, tellins, furrow-shells, and tower-shells.
Parts of the bed of the Irish Sea are very rich in wildlife. The seabed southwest of the Isle of Man is particularly noted for its rarities and diversity, as are the horse mussel beds of Strangford Lough, Co Down. Scallops and queen scallops are found in more gravely areas. In the estuaries, where the bed is more sandy or muddy, the number of species is smaller but the size of their populations is larger. Brown shrimps, cockles and edible mussels support local fisheries in Morecambe Bay and the Dee Estuary and the estuaries are also important as nurseries for flatfish, herring and sea bass. Muddy seabeds in deeper waters are home to populations of the Dublin Bay prawn, also known as "scampi".
The open sea is a complex habitat in its own right, though one that is entirely alien to us and consequently hard to understand. It exists in three spatial dimensions and also varies over time and tide. For example, where freshwater flows into the Irish Sea in river estuaries its influence can extend far offshore as the freshwater is lighter and "floats" on top of the much larger body of saltwater until wind and temperature changes mix it in. Similarly, warmer water is less dense and seawater warmed in the inter-tidal zone may "float" on the colder offshore water. The amount of light penetrating the seawater also varies with depth and turbidity. This leads to differing populations of plankton in different parts of the sea and varying communities of animals that feed on these populations. However, increasing seasonal storminess leads to greater mixing of water and tends to break down these divisions, which are more apparent when the weather is calm for long periods.
Plankton includes viruses, bacteria, plants (phytoplankton) and animals (zooplankton) that drift in the sea. Most are microscopic, but some - such as the various species of jellyfish and sea-gooseberry - can be much bigger.
Diatoms and dinoflagellates dominate the phytoplankton. Although they are microscopic plants, diatoms have hard shells and dinoflagellates have little tails that propel them through the water. Phytoplankton populations in the Irish Sea have a spring "bloom" every April and May, when the seawater is generally at its greenest.
Crustaceans, especially copepods, dominate the zooplankton. However, many animals of the seabed, the open sea and the seashore spend their juvenile stages as part of the zooplankton. The whole plankton "soup" is vitally important, directly or indirectly, as a food source for most species in the Irish Sea, even the largest. The enormous Basking Shark, for example, lives entirely on plankton and the Leatherback Turtle's main food is jellyfish.
A colossal diversity of invertebrate species lives in the Irish Sea and its surrounding coastline, ranging from flower-like fan-worms to predatory swimming-crabs to large chameleon-like cuttlefish. Some of the most significant for other wildlife are the reef-building species like the inshore Horse Mussel of Strangford Lough, Co. Down and the inter-tidal Honeycomb Worm of Morecambe Bay, Cumbria and Lancashire. These build up large structures over many years and, in turn, provide surfaces, nooks and crannies where other marine animals and plants may become established and live out some or all of their lives.
There are quite regular records of live and stranded Leatherback Turtle in and around the Irish Sea. This species travels north to the waters off the British Isles every year following the swarms of jellyfish that form its prey. Loggerhead Turtle, Ridley's Turtle and Green Turtle are found very occasionally in the Irish Sea but are generally unwell or dead when discovered. They have strayed or been swept out of their natural range further south into our colder waters.
The estuaries of the Irish Sea are of international importance for birds. They are vital feeding grounds on migration flyways for shorebirds travelling between the Arctic and Africa. Others depend on their milder climate as a refuge when continental Europe is in the grip of winter.
Twenty-one species of seabird are reported as regularly nesting on beaches or cliffs around the Irish Sea.
Huge populations of the sea duck, Common Scoter, spend winters feeding in shallow waters off eastern Ireland, Lancashire and North Wales.
Whales, dolphins and porpoises all frequent the Irish Sea, but our knowledge of how many there may be and where they go is somewhat sketchy. About a dozen species have been recorded since 1980, but only three are seen fairly often. These are the Harbour Porpoise, Bottlenose Dolphin and Common Dolphin. The more rarely seen species are Minke Whale, Fin Whale, Sei Whale, Sperm Whale, Northern Bottlenose Whale, Long-finned Pilot Whale, Killer Whale or Orca, White-beaked Dolphin, Striped Dolphin and Risso's Dolphin.
The Common or Harbour Seal and the Grey Seal are both resident in the Irish Sea. Common seals breed in Strangford Lough, Co Down, grey seals in south west Wales and, in small numbers, on the Isle of Man. Grey Seals haul out, but do not breed, off the islands of Hilbre, Wirral, Merseyside and Walney, Barrow-in-Furness Borough, Cumbria.
Aughnadarragh 15:55, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
The populations given in this table are pretty meaningless. Dublin has not got 500,000 people it has 1,500,000 or something (see Dublin). The borders of the county pretty well define the City of Dublin as it is commonly spoken of and understood - I live in Sandyford which is part of "Dun Laoghaire" according to this table (or maybe not - where does that figure come from?) but anybody asked "where is Sandyford (or Blackrock)" would say "Dublin". Maybe delete the table if it can't be made more meaning full. And Liverpool 400,000 people? I thought it had 3 million or something? ( Sarah777 10:46, 16 November 2007 (UTC))
Liverpool is a smaller city than Dublin in city, metro and urban measures but you are correct. Measuring by city limits is silly because different cities have different city council boundaries for political reasons and they are by no means a measure of the population of the city as a whole. Dublin's urban area is 1.1 million and its metro area is 1.8 million, according to its wikipedia page. It would probably be most sensible to choose the 1.1 million figure because the "urban" measure is the most common practice on wikipedia and encyclopaedias in general. It's kind of indicative of the Irish inferiority complex to assume Liverpool is a larger city by default. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.61.1.90 ( talk) 03:12, 15 December 2014 (UTC)
I made a new Irish Sea Tunnel so the stuff in here that isn't really relvant I removed. Anyone apart from Tangerine have a problem with that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alien from brixton ( talk • contribs) 20:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Not really I did some research on Irish Sea Tunnel and it's not really relevant beacuse it's speculative and furutistic —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alien from brixton ( talk • contribs) 20:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
The section seems relevant and sourced to me so I've put it back. -- NeilN talk ♦ contribs 06:09, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Alien from brixton, before you revert again please take note of the three revert rule. Thanks. -- NeilN talk ♦ contribs 06:13, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
It's not relevant it just needs a sentence, and anyway it's wrong. It goes on about there being an economic case for a link when really there is none it's just a lot of hot air. Alien from brixton ( talk) 18:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I say it's wrong and I know more than you. It says that there is an economic case by just flinging around without figures about current commuinications without considering how to build it properly and how to finance it. It just an editor with a pipe dream. Alien from brixton ( talk) 20:58, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
There could be an economic case for such a link. The Irish sea is one of the busiest shipping regions in the world and has the world's largest car ferry—Irish Ferries Ulysses.[31] In addition, half of the air traffic at Dublin Airport is to Britain, with 8,300,000 passengers per annum. The Dublin-London air route is the busiest in the European Union and the second busiest in the world, with about 50 daily flights and 4.5 million passengers per annum. The success of the 15 km Oresund Bridge, inaugurated in 2000 and linking Malmö, Sweden and Copenhagen, Denmark, which has led to important economic integration between the two cities, suggests that the Dublin–Holyhead route may be the most promising.[32] With the addition of High-speed rail, such a tunnel could cut journey times from the northern English cities of Liverpool and Manchester to Dublin to under an hour. The combined population of the three metropolitan areas is over 5 million. The line would probably be built to standard gauge, which is narrower than the Irish broad gauge, meaning that onward trains would have to use variable gauge axles, or some Irish lines would have to be regauged to standard gauge or dual gauge to overcome the resultant break of gauge.
-- NeilN talk ♦ contribs 21:12, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Just wanted to point out is the flag of the Republic of Ireland; not the island of Ireland. Trust me folks, there's a big difference. GoodDay ( talk) 16:50, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
We can not use for Ireland (the whole island), until & if the island is re-united. GoodDay ( talk) 17:12, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Nope, not the correct flag. GoodDay ( talk) 17:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Personally, I believe England, Wales & Northern Ireland should be using this flag , to show equality with the Republic of Ireland. -- GoodDay ( talk) 18:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
Seems to me like people are confusing the name of the state - which is "Ireland" - and the name of the article - which is "Republic of Ireland". The article is only named "Republic of Ireland" to avoid confusion - not as an indication that it a valid or correct term. It is perfectly correct to use for Ireland - in fact, that's exactly the only perfectly correct use in the English language. -- Bardcom ( talk) 19:10, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
I removed the flags altogether. The use of Image:NIShape.gif as a flag stand-in is especially in violation of Wikipedia:Manual of Style (flags) (section 2.7), and really, per section 2.5, there really isn't any big need to use any of them in this small table. — Andrwsc ( talk · contribs) 23:17, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I often wondered. Do the British object to the name Irish Sea (as the Irish are claimed to object to British Isles)? Does anybody have any citations for it? If so, should it be added to this article? GoodDay ( talk) 16:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Hmm, I wonder if women living on the Isle of Man are offended by that Isle's name? giggle. Anyways, I'll leave the content here (and at British Isles) to others, to argue over. GoodDay ( talk) 23:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
The lead section claims that the Isle of Man is the biggest island in the Irish Sea, but I would have thought that was Anglesey. Am I missing something? -- Avenue ( talk) 09:25, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
I propose removing the Cumbric language name for the Irish Sea. Cumbric is an extinct language not spoken since the 12th century. There is very little written evidence of Cumbric, so the name as stated in the article would, I assume, be someone's attempt at "re-creating" a Cumbric variant for the term. There is also no reference for the source of the term, indicating Original Research in my opinion. Thoughts anyone? -- MacTire02 ( talk) 12:47, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
Should some mention be made of Chester in this article? - either as one of the "surrounding towns", or elsewhere. Historically (especially before the growth of Liverpool) Chester was a major port for trade and invasions from England across the Irish Sea - see History of Chester#Middle Ages - although subsequently the Dee estuary silted up. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 14:19, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
The original claim made in this edit was that "its name in Manx and Irish translates as "Mann Sea" or "Manx Sea"." That's true, but that is not the same by any means as saying that the Irish Sea is also known as the Mann Sea or Manx Sea in the English language. I don't see any evidence that the Irish Sea as a whole is known by those terms in the English language, although it may be true of the waters around the Isle of Man specifically. Can anyone provide any sources that show that the Irish Sea as a whole is also known in the English language as the Mann Sea or Manx Sea? Ghmyrtle ( talk) 17:45, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
I visited the article to find out who named the sea, and when. My previously unquestioned assumption was that it was named by seafarers (Britons or Continentals) to designate the body of water that conveyed them to Ireland, but it would be interesting to find confirmation of the actual source of the name, if this information is reliably recorded. — O'Dea ( talk) 21:20, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I was seeking depths of the Irish Sea after learning that Ireland separated from Great Britain 2,500 years before Great Britain separated from the Continent. There is not mention of the sea's structure or its depths anywhere in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Westcider ( talk • contribs) 13:11, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
The following towns are not on the coast of the Irish Sea:
I haven't looked at the islands listed in the table below it.
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I updated most populations in this table to current figures, per their articles. Except for the top 3: Dublin, Liverpool and Belfast. For these cities there are a number of figures: city proper, urban and metro. Using metro figures would put Liverpool first. None of the Belfast article figures seem to match what's in the table. So I'll leave the top 3 update to others. Declangi ( talk) 10:35, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
Is this section necessary or helpful? It covers the formation of the sea in geological time, and then moves on to a poorly written summary of invasions across the sea which are covered better in other articles. I propose that the section be deleted. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 15:00, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Can we get some more consistency in the "Region/province" section of the "Cities and towns" section? I don't have an obvious solution, but it's a bit of a mess. At present, the table shows, for England, the statistical region of each town; for Wales, the preserved county; and for Ireland, the historical province. None of these equate to current administrative areas, which would probably be more useful, and they are not consistent with each other. If we think it's best to use historical divisions, it would make more sense to use the historic counties for England - or just delete that column as we already have "County". Any thoughts? Ghmyrtle ( talk) 15:50, 10 February 2020 (UTC)