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I really think that last line on McDowell should be removed as: a) The only groups nowadays that would follow Irish Republican Legitimatism to that extent would be Republican Sinn Fein and the CIRA. b) In fairness McDowell was a vicious critic of SF and other Republican groups and really that comment could be considered cheap political point scoring, especially given the timing (run up to the 04 locals) Exiledone ( talk) 20:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but has anyone ever heard of expensive political point scoring? Didn't think so. 78.19.192.27 ( talk) 14:14, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Please keep an eye out for banned editor User:HarveyCarter who frequently edits from IP addresses starting with 92.7.
Thanks. Binksternet ( talk) 19:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
I enjoyed this article and in general, I really appreciate the effort to be even handed on what is a difficult topic. However, I have a few concerns and these are simply suggestions that I feel might help.
- The preamble contains two references in the space of three paragraphs to British support for the Free State ie '...British-backed Irish Nationalists' and '...Free State forces, which were heavily armed with weapons provided by the British Government..'. Regardless of intent, that clearly reinforces a well known SF position around the legitimacy of the Free State entity;
- Similarly, the statement re the Treaty Ports in the 'The Treaty and It's Consequences' section uses the word 'occupied' as in '...so-called strategic Treaty Ports...which were to remain occupied by the Royal Navy.' De Valera used the word 'occupation' in his campaign during the Economic War but the Treaty refers to 'made available for use.'
This isn't simple nitpicking - individually, each of us could make a case for the words we want to use but looking at the trend, there are three statements before we've even got off the first page which taken together add up to a consistent perspective which is primarily that adopted by De Valera.
( Robinvp11 ( talk) 13:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC))
This text has been removed. Why? It happened. It is sourced imo.
The sources referenced are the Irish Times, Hansard (UK parliament for the ship), Galway Advertiser, Irish Church Missions. There are others, e.g. Western Daily Press of 5 July 1922; and the Western Morning News of the same date. Is there any reason not to restore it? Lugnad ( talk) 02:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link)
I've just reinstated a line on it. 78.19.192.27 ( talk) 14:13, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
This is my first time commenting on a wiki page, so forgive me if I do it wrong.
On reading this article, it strikes me that the first sentence of the above section seems biased: "“Although the cause of the Civil War was the Treaty, as the war developed the Republicans sought to identify their actions with the traditional Republican cause of the "men of no property" and the result was that large Anglo-Irish landowners and some less well-off former Protestant Loyalists were attacked.”
This statement gives the impression that the cause of the "men of no property" was an afterthought for the Republicans. Though the statement is cited, it needs to be balanced by another opinion, as there are some who believe that class conflict was a major part of the war: ie. Dr. Conor Kostick's lecture, "Was the Civil War a Class War?" [1] and the makers of the 2006 movie "The Wind that Shakes the Barley."
In fact, it surprises me that this aspect of the conflict is not mentioned anywhere else in the article, especially because there was a rising socialist movement in Ireland before the war. Perhaps this is a controversial topic. I can't help but wonder if this omission is due to the bias against socialism which is prevalent in Western politics now. At any rate, whether we agree with Kostick's claim or not, this argument for a class conflict undertone to the war should at least be mentioned in the article.
Thank you, Tmloughr ( talk) 16:44, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
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What about the role the Royal Navy played in transporting the Free State forces? ( 81.159.7.57 ( talk) 11:24, 6 August 2017 (UTC))
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I would like to suggest that the end date for the civil war be moved to 2000, because there was further fighting between IRA and Loyalist groups until about then, as they were unable to secure a treaty that held up until about then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:344B:D130:C06D:E655:3D4:D299 ( talk) 21:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Looks more like soldiers doing target practice off the side of the boat. Otherise why would you aim at the open sea? 78.17.26.166 ( talk) 06:45, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
In the section Aftermath of the ceasefire, is there any reason not to change "gaols" to "jails"? John Link ( talk) 04:03, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
This article says the British supplied the Free State with aircraft, and it also says the Free State had 10 aircraft. What sort of aircraft were these, where were they kept and when and where were they used, if at all? Grma/Tks. Dáibhí Ó Bruadair ( talk) 19:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
While there are photos of army tanks in the War of Independence - https://www.thesun.ie/news/1832065/never-before-seen-photos-from-the-irish-war-of-independence-during-the-early-1920s/ and here in Capel Street: https://i.redd.it/cy185ynsype61.jpg - were there any tanks used in the Civil War? If so, how many, what kind were they, and where were they used? Grma/Tks. Dáibhí Ó Bruadair ( talk) 19:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
What would be the best way to mention leaders in the Info box? Normally per info-box rules it lists leaders with head of states on top then military leaders. I do not know how it should be because leaders like Michael Collins served as the Irish government leader and miltary leader. LuxembourgLover ( talk) 14:02, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is written in Hiberno-English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on June 28, 2015. |
|
I really think that last line on McDowell should be removed as: a) The only groups nowadays that would follow Irish Republican Legitimatism to that extent would be Republican Sinn Fein and the CIRA. b) In fairness McDowell was a vicious critic of SF and other Republican groups and really that comment could be considered cheap political point scoring, especially given the timing (run up to the 04 locals) Exiledone ( talk) 20:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but has anyone ever heard of expensive political point scoring? Didn't think so. 78.19.192.27 ( talk) 14:14, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Please keep an eye out for banned editor User:HarveyCarter who frequently edits from IP addresses starting with 92.7.
Thanks. Binksternet ( talk) 19:24, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
I enjoyed this article and in general, I really appreciate the effort to be even handed on what is a difficult topic. However, I have a few concerns and these are simply suggestions that I feel might help.
- The preamble contains two references in the space of three paragraphs to British support for the Free State ie '...British-backed Irish Nationalists' and '...Free State forces, which were heavily armed with weapons provided by the British Government..'. Regardless of intent, that clearly reinforces a well known SF position around the legitimacy of the Free State entity;
- Similarly, the statement re the Treaty Ports in the 'The Treaty and It's Consequences' section uses the word 'occupied' as in '...so-called strategic Treaty Ports...which were to remain occupied by the Royal Navy.' De Valera used the word 'occupation' in his campaign during the Economic War but the Treaty refers to 'made available for use.'
This isn't simple nitpicking - individually, each of us could make a case for the words we want to use but looking at the trend, there are three statements before we've even got off the first page which taken together add up to a consistent perspective which is primarily that adopted by De Valera.
( Robinvp11 ( talk) 13:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC))
This text has been removed. Why? It happened. It is sourced imo.
The sources referenced are the Irish Times, Hansard (UK parliament for the ship), Galway Advertiser, Irish Church Missions. There are others, e.g. Western Daily Press of 5 July 1922; and the Western Morning News of the same date. Is there any reason not to restore it? Lugnad ( talk) 02:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (
link)
I've just reinstated a line on it. 78.19.192.27 ( talk) 14:13, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
This is my first time commenting on a wiki page, so forgive me if I do it wrong.
On reading this article, it strikes me that the first sentence of the above section seems biased: "“Although the cause of the Civil War was the Treaty, as the war developed the Republicans sought to identify their actions with the traditional Republican cause of the "men of no property" and the result was that large Anglo-Irish landowners and some less well-off former Protestant Loyalists were attacked.”
This statement gives the impression that the cause of the "men of no property" was an afterthought for the Republicans. Though the statement is cited, it needs to be balanced by another opinion, as there are some who believe that class conflict was a major part of the war: ie. Dr. Conor Kostick's lecture, "Was the Civil War a Class War?" [1] and the makers of the 2006 movie "The Wind that Shakes the Barley."
In fact, it surprises me that this aspect of the conflict is not mentioned anywhere else in the article, especially because there was a rising socialist movement in Ireland before the war. Perhaps this is a controversial topic. I can't help but wonder if this omission is due to the bias against socialism which is prevalent in Western politics now. At any rate, whether we agree with Kostick's claim or not, this argument for a class conflict undertone to the war should at least be mentioned in the article.
Thank you, Tmloughr ( talk) 16:44, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
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What about the role the Royal Navy played in transporting the Free State forces? ( 81.159.7.57 ( talk) 11:24, 6 August 2017 (UTC))
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I would like to suggest that the end date for the civil war be moved to 2000, because there was further fighting between IRA and Loyalist groups until about then, as they were unable to secure a treaty that held up until about then. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:344B:D130:C06D:E655:3D4:D299 ( talk) 21:21, 9 April 2018 (UTC)
Looks more like soldiers doing target practice off the side of the boat. Otherise why would you aim at the open sea? 78.17.26.166 ( talk) 06:45, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
In the section Aftermath of the ceasefire, is there any reason not to change "gaols" to "jails"? John Link ( talk) 04:03, 10 September 2020 (UTC)
This article says the British supplied the Free State with aircraft, and it also says the Free State had 10 aircraft. What sort of aircraft were these, where were they kept and when and where were they used, if at all? Grma/Tks. Dáibhí Ó Bruadair ( talk) 19:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
While there are photos of army tanks in the War of Independence - https://www.thesun.ie/news/1832065/never-before-seen-photos-from-the-irish-war-of-independence-during-the-early-1920s/ and here in Capel Street: https://i.redd.it/cy185ynsype61.jpg - were there any tanks used in the Civil War? If so, how many, what kind were they, and where were they used? Grma/Tks. Dáibhí Ó Bruadair ( talk) 19:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
What would be the best way to mention leaders in the Info box? Normally per info-box rules it lists leaders with head of states on top then military leaders. I do not know how it should be because leaders like Michael Collins served as the Irish government leader and miltary leader. LuxembourgLover ( talk) 14:02, 11 January 2024 (UTC)