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Hi there. I don't know how to link to wikipedia articles in other languages. For example, there is a wikipedia article about Dwiki Dharmawan, but it's on the Indonesian Wikipedia, and apparently doesn't link there, automatically.
@ Vtsound: Before commenting on the submission itself, I'll note that there might possibly be a conflict of interest here, because the subject is going to perform at your festival and this article might be seen as an indirect means of promoting that festival. I'm not going to raise an issue about it; I mention it only so that other reviewers will be aware of the relationship.
On a minor note, the list of compositions probably doesn't belong here. Composers who have an extensive list of notable compositions typically will have a separate article titled List of compositions by NAME OF COMPOSER. For those who don't have so many of them, the usual approach is to simply identify the notable ones in the prose discussion of the composer's career (along, of course, with some indication as to why the particular composition is significant to that career). On a similarly minor note, do you really need five references to support the fact that Kepl released an album on Fou Records? You might want to read our essay on over-citing for more discussion of this topic.
The most basic concern here is with the question of whether this musician meets Wikipedia's notion of "notability". I recognize that you believe that she does, but you have not yet been successful in demonstrating this to the reviewers (including me). To a great extent, you weakened your argument by placing so many of the references in the form of "bare URL's". By doing this, you fail to provide essential bibliographic detail such as who was the author of a reference, as well as when and where it was published. In effect, you are telling the readers (including the reviewers) that if they want to learn this essential information, they need to leave Wikipedia and go learn it for themselves. You can make it easier for reviewers to "see what you see" if you re-format your references using the {{ cite web}} template. This template will serve to remind you about the essential bibliographic detail that should be provided and will produce a reference that has a standard -- and more professional-appearing -- format.
If you choose to respond to these comments here, I would be interested in learning which particular aspects of WP:MUSICBIO you feel are met by Kepl. I see that you might point to the Theodor Körner Prize as an example. One problem I have with that (and it's a serious problem for me) is that the article on the prize simply states that it is a prestigious award. It doesn't actually provide any evidence for that assertion. Perhaps you can provide something here that might convince us that this one prize, in itself, causes Kepl to meet MUSICBIO. Or, feel free to offer any other evidence that you think might be helpful.
I look forward to your response. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 23:11, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
@ Vtsound: Although I was on-site during the weekend, it was only intermittently and I wasn't able to set aside the time to work on this draft. But I now have a few hours that I can use for the purpose. I'll post back here after I've done the re-write / re-structure. Thank you for your patience. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 20:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |publisher=
and |website=
(
help) which have released some CDs and were apparently still active in 2016. Also I found a version of a more detailed biography until 2011 on the DonneInMusic-page here:
"Biography of Irene Kepl". donneinmusica.org. donneinmusica. 2011. Retrieved February 01, 2017. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help). It seems
de:Christoph Cech also was her teacher while studying Jazz. I also found a reference to another film composition of her here, since IMDB is not a credible source:
"Filmdetails Vergeben Und Vergessen". firststeps.de. First Steps Deutschen Filmakademie e.V. 2016. Retrieved February 01, 2017. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help). And there is another one here:
"Mein Grün ist vielleicht dein Blau - Alfred Grubbauer". alfredgrubbauer.at. Alfred Grubbauer. 2011. Retrieved February 01, 2017. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help). I had this one in the list of compositions as of the musicaustria-database, and since you seperated the film scores in an extra section I thought I might look them up more in detail. :D@ Vtsound: As you can see, I've drastically reduced the amount of material that now appears in the draft. However, I do intend to add material to the (new) "Critical reception" section. I also know that I haven't mentioned Kepl's work with VERSO, so that'll need to be done, as well. But for now, I'll express my concerns about a lot of the sources that I've remove (but stored for safe-keeping in the section below). A lot of those sources simply give a brief biography of Kepl. I see no evidence that any of these sources did any independent research and it is almost certain that they are simply republishing information that they got either from Kepl herself or her web site. And on top of that, several of the sources (and I'm thinking here of the residency ones) don't provide anything in the way of context. Putting these two concerns together, I'm finding it difficult to see any encyclopedic value in those sources. Perhaps you disagree and, if so, I'll be happy to discuss each source with you. But right now, I couldn't see a way to work them into a coherent narrative thread and I found it preferable to remove them rather than have them appear as disjointed facts.
Another concern comes from those sources that are really just blogs. Blogs from people who are not already notable in their field are not well-received on Wikipedia. This is especially true for music reviews, for which a common reaction is something like "Who cares what a blogger thought about the album?" I do intend to use the Foxall review, because I was able to establish that he has been a long-time reviewer at an established jazz magazine. But I have no confidence in most of the others. Special note should be taken of the Daniel Spicer review that is attributed to Jazzwise magazine. There's no question that a review in that magazine would be a welcome addition to the article. The problem is -- the on-line archive for the magazine doesn't acknowledge that they ever reviewed it. I don't think the review is a fabrication. Instead, I think that someone misidentified it and that this misidentification has been repeated on other sites that discuss the album. Until the matter is cleared up, I don't see how we can use it here.
I didn't yet look at all of the sources that you gave in your last post. But as for your question about editing the draft, you are quite free to do so. I don't expect to be editing here again for at least twelve hours, so there's little chance that we'll be getting in each other's way. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matters I've raised here. In the meantime, just two quick questions -- (1) do you know what instrument Dharmawan plays? (I didn't have the energy to run the Indonesian article through the Google translator.) and (2) do we know what composition got her the Korner prize? If you happen to know the answers, feel free to add them in place of the "_____"'s that now appear in the draft. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 05:52, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
@ Vtsound: I've done a bit of restructuring, mostly to maintain a more strict chronology. However, I didn't add anything about Verso. Perhaps its the lateness of the hour, but I couldn't make sense of where that group fit into the overall story and I thought it better to just leave it out until I did have a clearer idea. A few specific comments:
I think we're pretty close to finishing this. Let me know if you've got any concerns about how I've approached the write-up. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 08:10, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
References
As of the mica.at source Kepl was a member of Ensemble09. I have researched this in depth and it appears that ensemble was active in over 100 concerts in 2009, but I couldn't find any (other) source of the general members of Ensemble09. Since it appears this was actually her breakthrough as being recognised widely as a solo violinist in Austria, I have included this into her career part. Certainly it would be good to find maybe a print source of a review of one of the concerts, or some other form of general information about Ensemble09 personnel. Vtsound ( talk) 15:32, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
Recordings
Residencies
Interviews
Other
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hi there. I don't know how to link to wikipedia articles in other languages. For example, there is a wikipedia article about Dwiki Dharmawan, but it's on the Indonesian Wikipedia, and apparently doesn't link there, automatically.
@ Vtsound: Before commenting on the submission itself, I'll note that there might possibly be a conflict of interest here, because the subject is going to perform at your festival and this article might be seen as an indirect means of promoting that festival. I'm not going to raise an issue about it; I mention it only so that other reviewers will be aware of the relationship.
On a minor note, the list of compositions probably doesn't belong here. Composers who have an extensive list of notable compositions typically will have a separate article titled List of compositions by NAME OF COMPOSER. For those who don't have so many of them, the usual approach is to simply identify the notable ones in the prose discussion of the composer's career (along, of course, with some indication as to why the particular composition is significant to that career). On a similarly minor note, do you really need five references to support the fact that Kepl released an album on Fou Records? You might want to read our essay on over-citing for more discussion of this topic.
The most basic concern here is with the question of whether this musician meets Wikipedia's notion of "notability". I recognize that you believe that she does, but you have not yet been successful in demonstrating this to the reviewers (including me). To a great extent, you weakened your argument by placing so many of the references in the form of "bare URL's". By doing this, you fail to provide essential bibliographic detail such as who was the author of a reference, as well as when and where it was published. In effect, you are telling the readers (including the reviewers) that if they want to learn this essential information, they need to leave Wikipedia and go learn it for themselves. You can make it easier for reviewers to "see what you see" if you re-format your references using the {{ cite web}} template. This template will serve to remind you about the essential bibliographic detail that should be provided and will produce a reference that has a standard -- and more professional-appearing -- format.
If you choose to respond to these comments here, I would be interested in learning which particular aspects of WP:MUSICBIO you feel are met by Kepl. I see that you might point to the Theodor Körner Prize as an example. One problem I have with that (and it's a serious problem for me) is that the article on the prize simply states that it is a prestigious award. It doesn't actually provide any evidence for that assertion. Perhaps you can provide something here that might convince us that this one prize, in itself, causes Kepl to meet MUSICBIO. Or, feel free to offer any other evidence that you think might be helpful.
I look forward to your response. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 23:11, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
@ Vtsound: Although I was on-site during the weekend, it was only intermittently and I wasn't able to set aside the time to work on this draft. But I now have a few hours that I can use for the purpose. I'll post back here after I've done the re-write / re-structure. Thank you for your patience. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 20:41, 30 January 2017 (UTC)
{{
cite web}}
: External link in |publisher=
and |website=
(
help) which have released some CDs and were apparently still active in 2016. Also I found a version of a more detailed biography until 2011 on the DonneInMusic-page here:
"Biography of Irene Kepl". donneinmusica.org. donneinmusica. 2011. Retrieved February 01, 2017. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help). It seems
de:Christoph Cech also was her teacher while studying Jazz. I also found a reference to another film composition of her here, since IMDB is not a credible source:
"Filmdetails Vergeben Und Vergessen". firststeps.de. First Steps Deutschen Filmakademie e.V. 2016. Retrieved February 01, 2017. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help). And there is another one here:
"Mein Grün ist vielleicht dein Blau - Alfred Grubbauer". alfredgrubbauer.at. Alfred Grubbauer. 2011. Retrieved February 01, 2017. {{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |access-date=
(
help). I had this one in the list of compositions as of the musicaustria-database, and since you seperated the film scores in an extra section I thought I might look them up more in detail. :D@ Vtsound: As you can see, I've drastically reduced the amount of material that now appears in the draft. However, I do intend to add material to the (new) "Critical reception" section. I also know that I haven't mentioned Kepl's work with VERSO, so that'll need to be done, as well. But for now, I'll express my concerns about a lot of the sources that I've remove (but stored for safe-keeping in the section below). A lot of those sources simply give a brief biography of Kepl. I see no evidence that any of these sources did any independent research and it is almost certain that they are simply republishing information that they got either from Kepl herself or her web site. And on top of that, several of the sources (and I'm thinking here of the residency ones) don't provide anything in the way of context. Putting these two concerns together, I'm finding it difficult to see any encyclopedic value in those sources. Perhaps you disagree and, if so, I'll be happy to discuss each source with you. But right now, I couldn't see a way to work them into a coherent narrative thread and I found it preferable to remove them rather than have them appear as disjointed facts.
Another concern comes from those sources that are really just blogs. Blogs from people who are not already notable in their field are not well-received on Wikipedia. This is especially true for music reviews, for which a common reaction is something like "Who cares what a blogger thought about the album?" I do intend to use the Foxall review, because I was able to establish that he has been a long-time reviewer at an established jazz magazine. But I have no confidence in most of the others. Special note should be taken of the Daniel Spicer review that is attributed to Jazzwise magazine. There's no question that a review in that magazine would be a welcome addition to the article. The problem is -- the on-line archive for the magazine doesn't acknowledge that they ever reviewed it. I don't think the review is a fabrication. Instead, I think that someone misidentified it and that this misidentification has been repeated on other sites that discuss the album. Until the matter is cleared up, I don't see how we can use it here.
I didn't yet look at all of the sources that you gave in your last post. But as for your question about editing the draft, you are quite free to do so. I don't expect to be editing here again for at least twelve hours, so there's little chance that we'll be getting in each other's way. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the matters I've raised here. In the meantime, just two quick questions -- (1) do you know what instrument Dharmawan plays? (I didn't have the energy to run the Indonesian article through the Google translator.) and (2) do we know what composition got her the Korner prize? If you happen to know the answers, feel free to add them in place of the "_____"'s that now appear in the draft. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 05:52, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
@ Vtsound: I've done a bit of restructuring, mostly to maintain a more strict chronology. However, I didn't add anything about Verso. Perhaps its the lateness of the hour, but I couldn't make sense of where that group fit into the overall story and I thought it better to just leave it out until I did have a clearer idea. A few specific comments:
I think we're pretty close to finishing this. Let me know if you've got any concerns about how I've approached the write-up. NewYorkActuary ( talk) 08:10, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
References
As of the mica.at source Kepl was a member of Ensemble09. I have researched this in depth and it appears that ensemble was active in over 100 concerts in 2009, but I couldn't find any (other) source of the general members of Ensemble09. Since it appears this was actually her breakthrough as being recognised widely as a solo violinist in Austria, I have included this into her career part. Certainly it would be good to find maybe a print source of a review of one of the concerts, or some other form of general information about Ensemble09 personnel. Vtsound ( talk) 15:32, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
Recordings
Residencies
Interviews
Other