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![]() | On 23 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Iranian Principlists to Iranian principlists. The result of the discussion was moved. |
@ Pahlevun: Hi. It was a long time that i want to talk with you about Principlism and former Right wing. During of Consolidation of the Iranian Revolution, political activities of Liberalists (including National Front and Freedom Movement) and Socialists (for example Mojahedin-e-Khalgh) became as illegal. At that years, IRP divided to two main group of politicians that known as Right and Left wings. There was this fractions also in Combatant Clergy Association. The Left wing took the power from 1981 by premiership of Mir-Hossein Mousavi. Left wing was formed from Combatant Clerics, Mojahedin Organization, Assembly of Imam's Line and Worker House. The Right wing took the power from 1989 by Presidency of Hashemi Rafsanjani. But Right wing devided to «Traditional» and «Modern» fractions at 1996. The Modern right wing became the Executives of Construction Party. Also the left wing divided to «Traditional» and «Modern» fractions after defeat of left wing in 4th Majlis election. The modern fractions of right and left wings politicians formed a coalition in 5th Majlis and backed Khatami at 1997 election. Khatami won that election and made the «2nd of Khordad Front» (later: Reformists Front) from «Modern left wing» and «Modern Right wing» politicians. After continuous defeats of Traditional right wing from 1997 to 2000, some politicians who claimed not a member of right wing(for example: Society of Devotees and Hossein Fadaee secretary-general of that party), formed the Principlism. Principlists established Alliance of Builders from Society of Devotees and Islamic Society of Engineers politicians. First rivalry of them against Reformists was at 2003 local elections...
So all of the former right wing is not Principlist now. Please read this articles for detailed informations: this, this, this, this and this are valuable articles and have many reliable sources. Also this and this news are good reports.
I should say something another. Rafsanjani who was the Leader of former Right wing, was not a Principlist. He was a politician of Moderate wing ( Persian: جناح اعتدالگرا) (neither Principlist, nor Reformist) such as Hassan Rouhani and was leaded that wing until five months ago. Principlists backed principlist candidates in first round and backed Ahmadinejad in second round of 2005 election.
I think, the Moderate wing (include MDP, ECP and coalition of FDP) must be in Template:Iranian political parties as third wing of Iranian political parties.
regards Benyamin-ln ( talk) 22:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
My answer to both questions is no. Many scholarly sources (including Harris (2017) and Amir Arjomand and Brown (2013) that I added to the article), acknowledge that the word 'principlist' is a neologism that the faction used to rebrand themselves, evade the word Mohafezekar and counter the term Eslahtalab. The same applies to the word Abadgaran that contrasted with Sazandegi (According to Halliday (2010) and Axworthy (2013); see Abadgaran#References).
I'm pretty familiar with Iran's Persian-language political jargon and well-aware of the usage of the word E'tedal since 2013, but as far as I have searched scholarly works, they do not consider "moderates" to be a genuine faction separate from principlists and refomists, and use the term in the moderate–hardliner dualism sense. Some use the term 'moderate conservative', refering to the pragmatist conservatives. So, figures like Larijani and Nategh (who are obviously principlist/conservative) are referred to as 'moderates'. In English-language sources, even in media, the term is not established to refer to an original faction founded in 2013.
[A little explanation off the reseaning mentioned above, just for the sake of clarification and not discussion: During the last two decades, several organizations claimed to be "the third way" (e.g. Association for Defence of Revolution Values, Freethinkers' Pinnacle Party, Green Party) but none of them were taken seriously or regarded so. Moderation and Development Party is now officially part of the supreme policymaking council of reformists and has described itself reformist in 2003, though it was also formerly described conservative, it was never considered to represent a faction called "moderates", independent from the principlist-reformist camps. Just like kargozaran who has always been regarded and even self-identifies reformist. The terms "right" and "left", the factions of the Islamic Republican Party during 1980s, refer to their economic tendency (liberal and socialist respectively) and not their worldview. They were both socially conservative, in favor of export of revolution, etc. Like IRP, Mojahedin of the Islamic Revolution Organization had right and left factions which later became Society of Devotees of the Islamic Revolution and Mojahedin of the Islamic Revolution of Iran Organization (So, Devotees are considered part of the right-wing as sourced in the article). Yes, kargozaran do consider itself to be the "Modern Right" and split from the right-wing ( Ghouchani regularly mentions this in their organ Sazandegi) and it is reflected in the article as well. But the only similarity between Kargozaran and "the right-wing" is their capitalist attitude towards economy. They do not share social coservative views, nor domestic/foreign policy of the latter.] – Pahlevun ( talk) 15:24, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
After the Islamic right-wing and left-wing movements began to be referred to as the “conservative” or “principlist” (usulgara) and the “reformist” (islahtalab) movements respectively, the Jāme'e-ye Rowhāniyyat came to be categorised as a conservative political organization. (Murtajī, pp 7-9; Zārīfīnīyā, p.88; Dārābī, pp. 153-154, n.2)
It cites Dārābī as one of the sources, I wonder is it the same source you refer or not. Pahlevun ( talk) 14:47, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
References
@ Pahlevun: Hi dear. why the section of Presidential elections began from 1997? Your opinion is that the terms "Principlist", "Conservative" or "Right-wing" didn't refer to different factions, (of course I didn't think same) so the July 1981, October 1981, 1985, 1989 and 1993 elections belongs to principlists. Also Prime ministership of Mir-Hossein Mousavi and won of 3rd Majlis belongs to Reformists. Benyamin-ln ( talk) 13:32, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 01:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Iranian Principlists → Iranian principlists – "Principlists" is not consistently capitalized in reliable sources; judging from Google Scholar results it's about 50-50. Per WP:NCCAPS it should therefore be in sentence case. I also wouldn't object to an alternate name such as "principlism (Iran)" or "principlists (Iran)", because it's not clear that the compound "Iranian P/principlists" is common enough for natural disambiguation to apply. ( t · c) buidhe 21:20, 23 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 01:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Iranian principlists article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1978 Iranian politics, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 23 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Iranian Principlists to Iranian principlists. The result of the discussion was moved. |
@ Pahlevun: Hi. It was a long time that i want to talk with you about Principlism and former Right wing. During of Consolidation of the Iranian Revolution, political activities of Liberalists (including National Front and Freedom Movement) and Socialists (for example Mojahedin-e-Khalgh) became as illegal. At that years, IRP divided to two main group of politicians that known as Right and Left wings. There was this fractions also in Combatant Clergy Association. The Left wing took the power from 1981 by premiership of Mir-Hossein Mousavi. Left wing was formed from Combatant Clerics, Mojahedin Organization, Assembly of Imam's Line and Worker House. The Right wing took the power from 1989 by Presidency of Hashemi Rafsanjani. But Right wing devided to «Traditional» and «Modern» fractions at 1996. The Modern right wing became the Executives of Construction Party. Also the left wing divided to «Traditional» and «Modern» fractions after defeat of left wing in 4th Majlis election. The modern fractions of right and left wings politicians formed a coalition in 5th Majlis and backed Khatami at 1997 election. Khatami won that election and made the «2nd of Khordad Front» (later: Reformists Front) from «Modern left wing» and «Modern Right wing» politicians. After continuous defeats of Traditional right wing from 1997 to 2000, some politicians who claimed not a member of right wing(for example: Society of Devotees and Hossein Fadaee secretary-general of that party), formed the Principlism. Principlists established Alliance of Builders from Society of Devotees and Islamic Society of Engineers politicians. First rivalry of them against Reformists was at 2003 local elections...
So all of the former right wing is not Principlist now. Please read this articles for detailed informations: this, this, this, this and this are valuable articles and have many reliable sources. Also this and this news are good reports.
I should say something another. Rafsanjani who was the Leader of former Right wing, was not a Principlist. He was a politician of Moderate wing ( Persian: جناح اعتدالگرا) (neither Principlist, nor Reformist) such as Hassan Rouhani and was leaded that wing until five months ago. Principlists backed principlist candidates in first round and backed Ahmadinejad in second round of 2005 election.
I think, the Moderate wing (include MDP, ECP and coalition of FDP) must be in Template:Iranian political parties as third wing of Iranian political parties.
regards Benyamin-ln ( talk) 22:42, 19 June 2017 (UTC)
My answer to both questions is no. Many scholarly sources (including Harris (2017) and Amir Arjomand and Brown (2013) that I added to the article), acknowledge that the word 'principlist' is a neologism that the faction used to rebrand themselves, evade the word Mohafezekar and counter the term Eslahtalab. The same applies to the word Abadgaran that contrasted with Sazandegi (According to Halliday (2010) and Axworthy (2013); see Abadgaran#References).
I'm pretty familiar with Iran's Persian-language political jargon and well-aware of the usage of the word E'tedal since 2013, but as far as I have searched scholarly works, they do not consider "moderates" to be a genuine faction separate from principlists and refomists, and use the term in the moderate–hardliner dualism sense. Some use the term 'moderate conservative', refering to the pragmatist conservatives. So, figures like Larijani and Nategh (who are obviously principlist/conservative) are referred to as 'moderates'. In English-language sources, even in media, the term is not established to refer to an original faction founded in 2013.
[A little explanation off the reseaning mentioned above, just for the sake of clarification and not discussion: During the last two decades, several organizations claimed to be "the third way" (e.g. Association for Defence of Revolution Values, Freethinkers' Pinnacle Party, Green Party) but none of them were taken seriously or regarded so. Moderation and Development Party is now officially part of the supreme policymaking council of reformists and has described itself reformist in 2003, though it was also formerly described conservative, it was never considered to represent a faction called "moderates", independent from the principlist-reformist camps. Just like kargozaran who has always been regarded and even self-identifies reformist. The terms "right" and "left", the factions of the Islamic Republican Party during 1980s, refer to their economic tendency (liberal and socialist respectively) and not their worldview. They were both socially conservative, in favor of export of revolution, etc. Like IRP, Mojahedin of the Islamic Revolution Organization had right and left factions which later became Society of Devotees of the Islamic Revolution and Mojahedin of the Islamic Revolution of Iran Organization (So, Devotees are considered part of the right-wing as sourced in the article). Yes, kargozaran do consider itself to be the "Modern Right" and split from the right-wing ( Ghouchani regularly mentions this in their organ Sazandegi) and it is reflected in the article as well. But the only similarity between Kargozaran and "the right-wing" is their capitalist attitude towards economy. They do not share social coservative views, nor domestic/foreign policy of the latter.] – Pahlevun ( talk) 15:24, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
After the Islamic right-wing and left-wing movements began to be referred to as the “conservative” or “principlist” (usulgara) and the “reformist” (islahtalab) movements respectively, the Jāme'e-ye Rowhāniyyat came to be categorised as a conservative political organization. (Murtajī, pp 7-9; Zārīfīnīyā, p.88; Dārābī, pp. 153-154, n.2)
It cites Dārābī as one of the sources, I wonder is it the same source you refer or not. Pahlevun ( talk) 14:47, 22 June 2017 (UTC)
References
@ Pahlevun: Hi dear. why the section of Presidential elections began from 1997? Your opinion is that the terms "Principlist", "Conservative" or "Right-wing" didn't refer to different factions, (of course I didn't think same) so the July 1981, October 1981, 1985, 1989 and 1993 elections belongs to principlists. Also Prime ministership of Mir-Hossein Mousavi and won of 3rd Majlis belongs to Reformists. Benyamin-ln ( talk) 13:32, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 01:42, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
Iranian Principlists → Iranian principlists – "Principlists" is not consistently capitalized in reliable sources; judging from Google Scholar results it's about 50-50. Per WP:NCCAPS it should therefore be in sentence case. I also wouldn't object to an alternate name such as "principlism (Iran)" or "principlists (Iran)", because it's not clear that the compound "Iranian P/principlists" is common enough for natural disambiguation to apply. ( t · c) buidhe 21:20, 23 January 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 01:14, 31 January 2024 (UTC)