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This article was nominated for deletion on 3 August 2010. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article was authored by the grandson of the subject of the article (see [1]), thus making it a clear case of wp:COI; It's a very informative and well-formatted article, with plenty of sources - but they are offline and thus cannot be verified so it fails wp:V. According to the article the person received multiple awards so it may meet our notability guideline but I couldn't find reliable sources that can prove the accurateness of facts. I nominated the article for deletion but withdrew it after 2 days. Thanks for reviewing. Maashatra11 ( talk) 18:35, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I presented Ioan Dem. Dimancescu’s biography from a neutral point of view based on the refferences list mainly:
-published books mentioning his presence/contribution: 1, 3
-online versions of published books:
2,
14 (recently inserted) (please serch for the indicated page at referrences)
-published press articles from the ’20-’40 years (scanned/copied and placed on the external link
2): 4-13
Other sources (not mentioned as article references, but primary, too) are verifiable documents from reliable sources: official notes, military documents, ID cards, diplomas, nominal decorations/medals/brevets etc. (all scanned/copied and placed on external link
2)
The external links are placed for the following reasons:
-to offer free access to a copyrighted collection (
2) and
-to extensively present (for whom concerned) facts briefly mentioned in the article (
1)
None of the external links has commercial purposes.
The article has no mentions of special physical/mental attitudes, war braving etc. about the subject or family related aspects (personal life, hobbies etc.). E.g. a simple mention (no additional comments) of his wound in WWI/Basarabia is backed by an official form of a war hospital + diagnostic not included as references, but placed on link 2
I think that even I am close related to the article subject I edited carefully, from a NPOV. I’ve tried to identify possible biases but I can’t find them. I strongly consider that the article is just a sum of facts with no COI.
About notability of this article I’ve already written on the nominated for the deletion talk.
My single purpose is to offer to Wikipedia English readers a source of information about a Romanian citizen enough notable.
I think that if Romanian editors didn’t react on the article (RO version) up to now it’s a fact that I came up with valuable information for the Wikipedia project from a local/Romanian perspective.
I need support, including specific terminology argumentation from Wikipedia senior editors that trust in my good intentions/contribution for the project!
Please also advice me if someone (even if senior wiki editor) could cut content (e.g. succession box) with no warning/explanation, even if this is quite relevant for WPN.
Alin Dimancescu (
talk)
21:03, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Being the grandson of the subject does not disqualify anyone from editing here. Wiki COI policy says individuals with connections to the subject should edit with caution. So any editor that maintains a netural POV can edit here. That said, an article talk page is for discussion of the article content only. It is not the place for discussion of editor behavior such as COI. I suggest you take this discussion to a formal resolution venue such as the Administrators Noticeboard [2] or the Conflict of Interest Noticeboard [3]-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:11, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I have gone through the article and reorganized it and upgraded the language, prose and grammar. I have also removed some instances of promotional, off topic and non-encyclopedic text. What's left to be done in my opinion is to review the sources and make sure that the info presented is accurate and that the sources are considered to be reliable by Wiki standards and thereby determine that the subject is notable. I will come back another day and help with that.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:52, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello everybody, please let me help you on verifiability with an example. The following
link pointed to a pdf scan of the original offline item.
In the original text (now it’s slightly changed) it should supports the idea that Dimancescu “promote and organize winter sports”
I know that the article is in Romanian, but you can see the title of the magazine (it’s the official issue of the National Board of Physical Education), date (Jan 1924) the author (Ioan Dem. Dimancescu), the military grade (locotenent), the organization he represented (National Institute of Physical Education), even his own documentation sources at the end of the article. The title is “Mountain as physical and moral refreshment/recharging pretext” (Muntele ca factor de intarire fizica si morala). The whole article is about the benefits of practicing walk out (plimbare), winter sports and mountain climbing (alpinism) and the tone of the article is a call to action one. In a single word is about promotion (of the winter sports).
Having no experience in wiki practical issues I am asking you how far should we go with the verifiability? I know that I am trying to contribute to an English version of wikipedia (the main one), but this means to scan all the articles and translate them? Because I can't force Google to find non “zero” results and English versions on events happened more than 70-90 years ago in Romania.
WP-N is re-opened for each time even it is supposed to be surpassed at the deletion proposal phase (keep verdict). The same with the COI verdict based on my assumed family connection (but this means not necessary COI) doubled by repeated refferal of my close connection as COI and WP-OR argumentation.
I think that Dimancescu is enough notable on many domains: career/awards, scouts contribution, sports contribution (even he is not an Olympic winner, he should be considered from a local perspective: no performance in sports up to WW1 and army was forced to rebuild the sports movement from the basis), president of a Romanian sport Federation, president and founder of a Royal sport Club (Peles Sinaia). For all the above, he's included in Romanian Sports Enciclopedia at personalities section.
And finally, there is a point to make him more than notable and luckily the article is online, in English and the source is very honorable (being US): A swords fight starring Dimancescu! I “fight” too, not for him as person, but for his profile (a good Romanian) admission! All the best, Alin Dimancescu ( talk) 22:41, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Does this make sense, what I am asking? Thank you. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was nominated for deletion on 3 August 2010. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article was authored by the grandson of the subject of the article (see [1]), thus making it a clear case of wp:COI; It's a very informative and well-formatted article, with plenty of sources - but they are offline and thus cannot be verified so it fails wp:V. According to the article the person received multiple awards so it may meet our notability guideline but I couldn't find reliable sources that can prove the accurateness of facts. I nominated the article for deletion but withdrew it after 2 days. Thanks for reviewing. Maashatra11 ( talk) 18:35, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I presented Ioan Dem. Dimancescu’s biography from a neutral point of view based on the refferences list mainly:
-published books mentioning his presence/contribution: 1, 3
-online versions of published books:
2,
14 (recently inserted) (please serch for the indicated page at referrences)
-published press articles from the ’20-’40 years (scanned/copied and placed on the external link
2): 4-13
Other sources (not mentioned as article references, but primary, too) are verifiable documents from reliable sources: official notes, military documents, ID cards, diplomas, nominal decorations/medals/brevets etc. (all scanned/copied and placed on external link
2)
The external links are placed for the following reasons:
-to offer free access to a copyrighted collection (
2) and
-to extensively present (for whom concerned) facts briefly mentioned in the article (
1)
None of the external links has commercial purposes.
The article has no mentions of special physical/mental attitudes, war braving etc. about the subject or family related aspects (personal life, hobbies etc.). E.g. a simple mention (no additional comments) of his wound in WWI/Basarabia is backed by an official form of a war hospital + diagnostic not included as references, but placed on link 2
I think that even I am close related to the article subject I edited carefully, from a NPOV. I’ve tried to identify possible biases but I can’t find them. I strongly consider that the article is just a sum of facts with no COI.
About notability of this article I’ve already written on the nominated for the deletion talk.
My single purpose is to offer to Wikipedia English readers a source of information about a Romanian citizen enough notable.
I think that if Romanian editors didn’t react on the article (RO version) up to now it’s a fact that I came up with valuable information for the Wikipedia project from a local/Romanian perspective.
I need support, including specific terminology argumentation from Wikipedia senior editors that trust in my good intentions/contribution for the project!
Please also advice me if someone (even if senior wiki editor) could cut content (e.g. succession box) with no warning/explanation, even if this is quite relevant for WPN.
Alin Dimancescu (
talk)
21:03, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Being the grandson of the subject does not disqualify anyone from editing here. Wiki COI policy says individuals with connections to the subject should edit with caution. So any editor that maintains a netural POV can edit here. That said, an article talk page is for discussion of the article content only. It is not the place for discussion of editor behavior such as COI. I suggest you take this discussion to a formal resolution venue such as the Administrators Noticeboard [2] or the Conflict of Interest Noticeboard [3]-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:11, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I have gone through the article and reorganized it and upgraded the language, prose and grammar. I have also removed some instances of promotional, off topic and non-encyclopedic text. What's left to be done in my opinion is to review the sources and make sure that the info presented is accurate and that the sources are considered to be reliable by Wiki standards and thereby determine that the subject is notable. I will come back another day and help with that.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:52, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello everybody, please let me help you on verifiability with an example. The following
link pointed to a pdf scan of the original offline item.
In the original text (now it’s slightly changed) it should supports the idea that Dimancescu “promote and organize winter sports”
I know that the article is in Romanian, but you can see the title of the magazine (it’s the official issue of the National Board of Physical Education), date (Jan 1924) the author (Ioan Dem. Dimancescu), the military grade (locotenent), the organization he represented (National Institute of Physical Education), even his own documentation sources at the end of the article. The title is “Mountain as physical and moral refreshment/recharging pretext” (Muntele ca factor de intarire fizica si morala). The whole article is about the benefits of practicing walk out (plimbare), winter sports and mountain climbing (alpinism) and the tone of the article is a call to action one. In a single word is about promotion (of the winter sports).
Having no experience in wiki practical issues I am asking you how far should we go with the verifiability? I know that I am trying to contribute to an English version of wikipedia (the main one), but this means to scan all the articles and translate them? Because I can't force Google to find non “zero” results and English versions on events happened more than 70-90 years ago in Romania.
WP-N is re-opened for each time even it is supposed to be surpassed at the deletion proposal phase (keep verdict). The same with the COI verdict based on my assumed family connection (but this means not necessary COI) doubled by repeated refferal of my close connection as COI and WP-OR argumentation.
I think that Dimancescu is enough notable on many domains: career/awards, scouts contribution, sports contribution (even he is not an Olympic winner, he should be considered from a local perspective: no performance in sports up to WW1 and army was forced to rebuild the sports movement from the basis), president of a Romanian sport Federation, president and founder of a Royal sport Club (Peles Sinaia). For all the above, he's included in Romanian Sports Enciclopedia at personalities section.
And finally, there is a point to make him more than notable and luckily the article is online, in English and the source is very honorable (being US): A swords fight starring Dimancescu! I “fight” too, not for him as person, but for his profile (a good Romanian) admission! All the best, Alin Dimancescu ( talk) 22:41, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Does this make sense, what I am asking? Thank you. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 20:07, 6 August 2010 (UTC)