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The article needs citations and it should represent the non-hijabi point of view, instead of claiming the hadith viewpoint without reference. — Emiellaiendiay 22:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
This article contain some false information and does not represent a wide point of view of the Muslim World. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Salah-Q ( talk • contribs) 20:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Why do these people insane beliefs? :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.150.46 ( talk) 08:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
"Most Muslims hold that entire body of the woman, except her face and hands, is part of her awrah, so those are the parts of her body that must be covered during prayer and in public settings.[25][26][27] Most Salafi Muslims believe that a woman's awrah in front of unrelated men is her entire body including her face and hands.[28] [29][30][31][32][33][34]"
Most of these refs are deleted (scribd.com) or dead links. Noloop ( talk) 23:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Some of the information on this page is completely false, and I suggest that individuals who feel that they are knowledgeable enough to speak on behalf of Islam and Muslims around the world make sure that they get their facts right before doing so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.99.122 ( talk) 19:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Should it be spelt 'Awrah' or 'awrah'? Consistency would be an improvement. Junuxx ( talk) 18:35, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
This is not a primer in Arabic language, but an English-language encyclopedia. I suggest we merge this article with Intimate parts or rename it to Intimate parts (Islam). -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 19:28, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
In my opinion, 'Awrah' is a technical word and it is better to leave it untranslated, rather than translating it to 'intimate parts' سعید رحیمی ( talk) 02:03, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Is anyone going to add this to the Wikipedia? StandNThrow ( talk) 18:18, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
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This section is contradictory. FIRST off it says women AND men can sing in Islam. Then gives an example of this - at a festival. Pakistan has a national anthem which is sung by women e.g. women cricketers. Clearly there are many other women that sing in Islamic countries. YET someone has added some unreferenced bits after saying women should not sing. There is nothing written about men singing with an alluring or attractive voice? Does that same proscription NOT also apply to men?? It does with clothing and sumptuary laws apply also to men - not to wear clothing that enflames passion outside of certain circumstances. This needs to be better written as at the moment there is pointing to a random person's individual opinion and not a islamic scholar's well grounded basis on the quran or hadith. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.204.102 ( talk) 17:05, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
this should also be linked with
Islamic_music — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
88.115.204.102 (
talk)
17:06, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
The terms "Aurat", "Arvad", "Avret", and "Awrath" may refer to: Women of Asian religious or cultural descent and identity.
Self nomination for AFD since article copy pasted to Draft:Aurat for incubation because IMHO current article title Aurat (word) is misleading and confusing leading to western systemic bias and stifling the article growth. Please find Detail reason at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word)
I invite project members to review current and potential sourcing and weigh in on the AfD discussion. Thanks! Bookku ( talk) 03:05, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi,
@ Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word) I had requested User Austronesier to take initiative in disambiguating Indonesian /Malaysian sense of word Aurat. But may be he is focused somewhere else I am doing my third attempt of disambiguating in good faith. Probably I am not well versed enough in confusing unfriendly disambiguation rules, Please feel free to revert changes made by me in good faith. If I make mistakes I will invite more people to help me out in this task.
Steps taken up til now
Just for information @
PamD:, @
Austronesier:
Bookku ( talk) 11:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Solavirum:
By the way Intimate parts in Islam#Etymology section has following information (not properly cited) but perhaps it exists (and not added by me so some one else to reaching to that info from somewhere).
In Persian and Kurdish as well as Urdu, the word 'awrat (Persian: عورت) derived from the Arabic 'awrah, had been used widely to mean "woman"
Traditionally the word 'awrat, alongside the word za'ifeh (which derives from Arabic ḍa'īf (ضعيف), meaning weak) has been associated with femininity and women who lived under the protection of a man. In modern-day Iran, using the two words ( 'awrah and za'ifah) to refer to women is uncommon and is considered sexist language.It is considered sexist but likely to be there which needs further confirmatory discussion.
In Turkish, avrat is an often derogatory term for 'woman' or 'wife'This sentence is un-referenced but some one seems to have added.
Perhaps this point need to have discussion and disambiguation for use of word as Aurat (female human entity)
For information @ Staszek Lem:
Bookku ( talk) 11:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
Came across two mentions , [1] - though wikipedia would need better reference level of word 'afrat', seems is in use in sorani Kurdish.
References
Hat note as following is added
At some point of time in future if common sense prevails and article title Aurat gets allotted to Aurat (Women of India, Pakistan, Sorani Kurdish (Afrat), Azeri (arvad) ) hat note can be improved to better common sense version like below.
Bookku ( talk) 01:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
{{
Redirect|Title}}
, where "Title" is the title of a Wikipedia page that is a
redirect to the article on which the template appears. What you have written above ("'awrah (Arabic) and Aurat (Malaysian and Indonesian nomenclature for Intimate parts in Islam)") is not the title of any Wikipedia page. Please see
Template:Redirect/doc for additional details. --
R'n'B (
call me Russ)
19:51, 16 July 2020 (UTC)As of now your answer to point no 2 is likely help clear the way a little bit so awaiting for the same.
Thanks and regards
Bookku ( talk) 02:26, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Wbm1058: If you have changed hat notes after knowing all nuances then I would have no arguments, but sorry, as of now I am not sure that the changes you made are after full understanding nuances from all sides and that your changes are accurate enough?
Is haste really important to not wait longer enough for more discussions to happen is for you to decide. Thanks, and best wishes Bookku ( talk) 13:24, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
If the word is actually supposed to be Awrah, then why does Awrat redirect to here? Is "awrat" a misspelling of "awrah"? wbm1058 ( talk) 14:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello many greetings,
Requesting your proactive contribution and support in updating Draft:Aurats (word) in relation to the related languages you know well.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku ( talk) 03:14, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Bookku ( talk) 13:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Any respectable Muslim scholar would know that this Hadith is inauthentic, hence using this to justify the definition of the female Awrat would be a grave error:
"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: Asma, daughter of AbuBakr, entered upon the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) wearing thin clothes. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to his face and hands.
Abu Dawud said: This is a mursal tradition (i.e. the narrator who transmitted it from 'Aishah is missing) Khalid b. Duraik did not see 'Aishah."
I'm attaching the link to this particular Hadith below so that you guys are able to see for yourself.
https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4104 ChickenSoup54 ( talk) 04:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
"this Hadith's centrality for Muslim Scholars"? Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Vide this dif an IP has deleted sentence
".. Certain scholars have concluded from the above differences that a woman's voice is part of her awrah. .."
Since certain conservative views may have existed and would be notable with WP:RS. But associated refs now deleted by above dif do not seem to be RS. If some one has time to search academic ref then content may be restored.
On side note: I didn't get what IP's summary "2 countering points" meant Bookku ( talk) 16:28, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article needs citations and it should represent the non-hijabi point of view, instead of claiming the hadith viewpoint without reference. — Emiellaiendiay 22:42, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
This article contain some false information and does not represent a wide point of view of the Muslim World. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Salah-Q ( talk • contribs) 20:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Why do these people insane beliefs? :( —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.150.46 ( talk) 08:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
"Most Muslims hold that entire body of the woman, except her face and hands, is part of her awrah, so those are the parts of her body that must be covered during prayer and in public settings.[25][26][27] Most Salafi Muslims believe that a woman's awrah in front of unrelated men is her entire body including her face and hands.[28] [29][30][31][32][33][34]"
Most of these refs are deleted (scribd.com) or dead links. Noloop ( talk) 23:52, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
Some of the information on this page is completely false, and I suggest that individuals who feel that they are knowledgeable enough to speak on behalf of Islam and Muslims around the world make sure that they get their facts right before doing so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.146.99.122 ( talk) 19:04, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
Should it be spelt 'Awrah' or 'awrah'? Consistency would be an improvement. Junuxx ( talk) 18:35, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
This is not a primer in Arabic language, but an English-language encyclopedia. I suggest we merge this article with Intimate parts or rename it to Intimate parts (Islam). -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 19:28, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
In my opinion, 'Awrah' is a technical word and it is better to leave it untranslated, rather than translating it to 'intimate parts' سعید رحیمی ( talk) 02:03, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Is anyone going to add this to the Wikipedia? StandNThrow ( talk) 18:18, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 20:28, 12 February 2016 (UTC)
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This section is contradictory. FIRST off it says women AND men can sing in Islam. Then gives an example of this - at a festival. Pakistan has a national anthem which is sung by women e.g. women cricketers. Clearly there are many other women that sing in Islamic countries. YET someone has added some unreferenced bits after saying women should not sing. There is nothing written about men singing with an alluring or attractive voice? Does that same proscription NOT also apply to men?? It does with clothing and sumptuary laws apply also to men - not to wear clothing that enflames passion outside of certain circumstances. This needs to be better written as at the moment there is pointing to a random person's individual opinion and not a islamic scholar's well grounded basis on the quran or hadith. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.115.204.102 ( talk) 17:05, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
this should also be linked with
Islamic_music — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
88.115.204.102 (
talk)
17:06, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
The terms "Aurat", "Arvad", "Avret", and "Awrath" may refer to: Women of Asian religious or cultural descent and identity.
Self nomination for AFD since article copy pasted to Draft:Aurat for incubation because IMHO current article title Aurat (word) is misleading and confusing leading to western systemic bias and stifling the article growth. Please find Detail reason at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word)
I invite project members to review current and potential sourcing and weigh in on the AfD discussion. Thanks! Bookku ( talk) 03:05, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
Hi,
@ Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word) I had requested User Austronesier to take initiative in disambiguating Indonesian /Malaysian sense of word Aurat. But may be he is focused somewhere else I am doing my third attempt of disambiguating in good faith. Probably I am not well versed enough in confusing unfriendly disambiguation rules, Please feel free to revert changes made by me in good faith. If I make mistakes I will invite more people to help me out in this task.
Steps taken up til now
Just for information @
PamD:, @
Austronesier:
Bookku ( talk) 11:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
@ Solavirum:
By the way Intimate parts in Islam#Etymology section has following information (not properly cited) but perhaps it exists (and not added by me so some one else to reaching to that info from somewhere).
In Persian and Kurdish as well as Urdu, the word 'awrat (Persian: عورت) derived from the Arabic 'awrah, had been used widely to mean "woman"
Traditionally the word 'awrat, alongside the word za'ifeh (which derives from Arabic ḍa'īf (ضعيف), meaning weak) has been associated with femininity and women who lived under the protection of a man. In modern-day Iran, using the two words ( 'awrah and za'ifah) to refer to women is uncommon and is considered sexist language.It is considered sexist but likely to be there which needs further confirmatory discussion.
In Turkish, avrat is an often derogatory term for 'woman' or 'wife'This sentence is un-referenced but some one seems to have added.
Perhaps this point need to have discussion and disambiguation for use of word as Aurat (female human entity)
For information @ Staszek Lem:
Bookku ( talk) 11:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
Came across two mentions , [1] - though wikipedia would need better reference level of word 'afrat', seems is in use in sorani Kurdish.
References
Hat note as following is added
At some point of time in future if common sense prevails and article title Aurat gets allotted to Aurat (Women of India, Pakistan, Sorani Kurdish (Afrat), Azeri (arvad) ) hat note can be improved to better common sense version like below.
Bookku ( talk) 01:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
{{
Redirect|Title}}
, where "Title" is the title of a Wikipedia page that is a
redirect to the article on which the template appears. What you have written above ("'awrah (Arabic) and Aurat (Malaysian and Indonesian nomenclature for Intimate parts in Islam)") is not the title of any Wikipedia page. Please see
Template:Redirect/doc for additional details. --
R'n'B (
call me Russ)
19:51, 16 July 2020 (UTC)As of now your answer to point no 2 is likely help clear the way a little bit so awaiting for the same.
Thanks and regards
Bookku ( talk) 02:26, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
@ Wbm1058: If you have changed hat notes after knowing all nuances then I would have no arguments, but sorry, as of now I am not sure that the changes you made are after full understanding nuances from all sides and that your changes are accurate enough?
Is haste really important to not wait longer enough for more discussions to happen is for you to decide. Thanks, and best wishes Bookku ( talk) 13:24, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
If the word is actually supposed to be Awrah, then why does Awrat redirect to here? Is "awrat" a misspelling of "awrah"? wbm1058 ( talk) 14:05, 8 August 2020 (UTC)
Hello many greetings,
Requesting your proactive contribution and support in updating Draft:Aurats (word) in relation to the related languages you know well.
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku ( talk) 03:14, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
Bookku ( talk) 13:52, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Any respectable Muslim scholar would know that this Hadith is inauthentic, hence using this to justify the definition of the female Awrat would be a grave error:
"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: Asma, daughter of AbuBakr, entered upon the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) wearing thin clothes. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to his face and hands.
Abu Dawud said: This is a mursal tradition (i.e. the narrator who transmitted it from 'Aishah is missing) Khalid b. Duraik did not see 'Aishah."
I'm attaching the link to this particular Hadith below so that you guys are able to see for yourself.
https://sunnah.com/abudawud:4104 ChickenSoup54 ( talk) 04:44, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
"this Hadith's centrality for Muslim Scholars"? Iskandar323 ( talk) 12:10, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
Vide this dif an IP has deleted sentence
".. Certain scholars have concluded from the above differences that a woman's voice is part of her awrah. .."
Since certain conservative views may have existed and would be notable with WP:RS. But associated refs now deleted by above dif do not seem to be RS. If some one has time to search academic ref then content may be restored.
On side note: I didn't get what IP's summary "2 countering points" meant Bookku ( talk) 16:28, 15 May 2024 (UTC)