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I thought ISOGG is part of wiki
Helen ( talk) 09:29, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
( edit conflict)**Comment - yes, let's first see what's been published about ISOGG - or to put it another way, if we don't find anything to show notability as per WP:ORG someone is sure to take it to AfD. As for the IP, only a handful of editors, known as Checkusers, can make such checks. But the blocked editor Valentino2013 has used 174.20.254.101 ( talk · contribs) which geolocates to Minneapolis, so given that and the fact that the IP is writing in grammatically correct English I don't think they are related. (note after the edit conflict - so far apparently nothing to show notability. Dougweller ( talk) 11:14, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
I was asked by Andrew Lancaster to help improve this article. One of my edits was reverted by Dougweller with the edit summary "we can't just use anyone's comments about ISOGG". Can someone please explain what is wrong with Chris Pomeroy so I don't waste any more time on this article? Helen ( talk) 14:31, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
In recent years, citizen science projects have become increasingly focused providing benefits to scientific research. [1] [2] [3]This includes supporting, organization and dissemination of personal DNA (genetic) testing. Like Amateur astronomy, citizen scientists encouraged by volunteer organizations like ISOGG - the International Society of Genetic Genealogy, [4] have provided valuable information and research to the professional scientific community. [5]
Bonnie Schrack, cited in the AJHG reference above, and Chris Pomeroy are citizen scientists. But, they do not have a professional degree in that field. By the volume of material found on line, they are better qualified than Michelle Obama who advocates for poverty awareness, nutrition, and healthy eating. Our First Lady can also be called a citizen scientist of the social variety. The first two are genetic genealogists. Can anyone show me where you can get a bachelor, master or doctorate degree in Genetic Genealogy? If not, then people like Bonnie Schrack and Chris Pomeroy - whose work are often accepted and used by members of the scientific community - are some of the founding citizen scientists of Genetic Genealogy. I would use them as references because they are professional in what they do and they are documented in this field. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 18:31, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Can that long footnote not perhaps be turned into a paragraph for the body of the article? It is has good sourcing and the "call" made seems notable.-- Andrew Lancaster ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Please note that Debbie Kennett is a member of ISOGG. Articles by her that are used as sources may not be unbiased. That is not to say don't use them, but please be aware as you use them that the COI diminishes their NPOV credibility. -- RebekahThorn ( talk) 21:07, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Dr. King has a relationship with JOGG as the editor. Because JOGG received free hosting from ISOGG, this might indicate a conflict of interest and/or biased opinions. That again is not to say don't use the sources, just maintain absolute NPOV when using works she has authored or co-authored. -- RebekahThorn ( talk) 21:10, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
I am a member of the ISOGG Facebook group. I am not a formal member of ISOGG and am not involved in any of their projects personally. Please also note I won't necessarily know whether authors of sources are ISOGG members. Helen ( talk) 09:27, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
Currently we have:
ISOGG hosts the regularly updated ISOGG Y-chromosome phylogenetic tree,[5] although it does not endorse it for any specific utility.[14] The tree has elsewhere been described as using the accepted nomenclature for human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups and subclades in that it follows the Y Chromosome Consortium nomenclature as described in Karafet et al. 2008.[15]
I think:
The growth of interest in genetic genealogy has inspired a group of individuals outside the academic area who are passionate about the subject and who have an impressive grasp of the research issues. Two focal points for this group are the International Society of Genetic Genealogy and the Journal of Genetic Genealogy. The ISOGG is a non-profit, non-commercial organization that provides resources and maintains one of the most up-to-date, if not completely academically verified, phylogenetic trees of Y chromosome haplogroups. The Journal of Genetic Genealogy is its online journal, and while it does not abide by the standard system of scientific peer-review, it has attracted contributions from academic geneticists and will no doubt go on to become an important forum through which academics and the public can interact.
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
Helen (
talk)
11:03, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Please note that the New York Times is a highly reputable newspaper. Further, Amy Harmon is a reputable journalist who happens to have won a Pulitzer Prize for Explanatory Reporting for exactly the coverage HO says is not acceptable under Wikipedia:UNDUE#Due_and_undue_weight. Do you see my concern DW? -- RebekahThorn ( talk) 13:20, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Helen ( talk) 09:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)In making these statements I have in mind the role of the media and certain written academic opinions that over the past few years have sought to impact this issue. Sensationalistic media articles that relate anecdotal cases should not be used as a basis to regulate. Many of the articles I've read have been biased, reflecting the author's views without presenting voices from both sides of the issue. For example, just last week, a DC area reporter was looking for stories from consumers of DTC testing for an article to be published in anticipation of this meeting. He was contacted by several individuals who had positive testing experiences, but he did not follow up on these contacts. He told another consumer that he was specifically seeking negative experiences.
— Katherine Borges, FDA public meeting on oversight of laboratory developed tests in July 2010
That's a nice quote ( International Society of Genetic Genealogy#Citizen Science) but I think Genetic genealogy#Citizen science and ISOGG (as well as Citizen science) is a better place for it as it is not directly relevant to the ISOGG article. Helen ( talk) 19:18, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Helen,
ISOGG Mission Statement
"The mission of the International Society of Genetic Genealogy is to advocate for and educate about the use of genetics as a tool for genealogical research, and promote a supportive network for genetic genealogists." [6]
Yep, you are right. There should be a section on Mission Statement and how ISOGG educates and advocates. This definitely needs to be in the article. Then a mention within the section would be how ISOGG uses and promotes
crowdsourcing and
Citizen science with referencing to those main articles. The SW blurb then could show that ISOGG by co-sponsoring the Genographic effort by having S. Wells blurb is consistent with the Mission Statement. I should have thought of that first. One should not have the cart before the horse.
Helen, you are probably better at writing a section like that than I. Since I am a recent editor to this article, would you be so kind to add the Mission Statement and how ISOGG supports that statement? This way, no conflict.
Thank you
Jrcrin001 (
talk)
14:54, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
". . . it's hard to realize you're living history while it happens . . . . " – quote from private email from Ann P. Turner to Georgia Kinney-Bopp. [7]
I have tried. It is not easy to find reliable sources and the focus of this article should be on ISOGG not individual members or tangential projects such as the Genographic Project. Note that the ISOGG mission and how they accomplish it is already covered to some extent in the lede. Does anyone know if Jack Goins is an ISOGG member? Helen Online 12:48, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Why is every thing below not showing on the talk page? What page protection has been done to hide this? Dougweller ( talk) 21:10, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Hello,
I went through a Google Search for both ISOGG & International Society of Genetic Genealogy. Not all are eligible for use with the ISOGG article, but many are. Some simply show ISOGG is highly respected and referred to.
Room and common sense tells me not to post it here. It is an rtf file that is 2.27 megabytes in size. If you have a Windows based machine, WordPad will open it or if you have another word processor that will be used. But, you must give it permission. Click on the following link.
Result of Google search for ISOGG & International Society of Genetic Genealogy.
Dougweller (
talk)
21:10, 14 July 2013 (UTC) (resubmit)
The International Society of Genetic Genealogy (www.isogg.org) advocates the use of genetics as a tool for genealogical research, and provides a support network for genetic genealogists. It hosts the ISOGG Y-haplogroup tree, which has the virtue of being regularly updated.
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link) This is Volume 92, Issue 3, pages 454-459.
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![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 10 July 2013 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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|
I thought ISOGG is part of wiki
Helen ( talk) 09:29, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
( edit conflict)**Comment - yes, let's first see what's been published about ISOGG - or to put it another way, if we don't find anything to show notability as per WP:ORG someone is sure to take it to AfD. As for the IP, only a handful of editors, known as Checkusers, can make such checks. But the blocked editor Valentino2013 has used 174.20.254.101 ( talk · contribs) which geolocates to Minneapolis, so given that and the fact that the IP is writing in grammatically correct English I don't think they are related. (note after the edit conflict - so far apparently nothing to show notability. Dougweller ( talk) 11:14, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
I was asked by Andrew Lancaster to help improve this article. One of my edits was reverted by Dougweller with the edit summary "we can't just use anyone's comments about ISOGG". Can someone please explain what is wrong with Chris Pomeroy so I don't waste any more time on this article? Helen ( talk) 14:31, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
In recent years, citizen science projects have become increasingly focused providing benefits to scientific research. [1] [2] [3]This includes supporting, organization and dissemination of personal DNA (genetic) testing. Like Amateur astronomy, citizen scientists encouraged by volunteer organizations like ISOGG - the International Society of Genetic Genealogy, [4] have provided valuable information and research to the professional scientific community. [5]
Bonnie Schrack, cited in the AJHG reference above, and Chris Pomeroy are citizen scientists. But, they do not have a professional degree in that field. By the volume of material found on line, they are better qualified than Michelle Obama who advocates for poverty awareness, nutrition, and healthy eating. Our First Lady can also be called a citizen scientist of the social variety. The first two are genetic genealogists. Can anyone show me where you can get a bachelor, master or doctorate degree in Genetic Genealogy? If not, then people like Bonnie Schrack and Chris Pomeroy - whose work are often accepted and used by members of the scientific community - are some of the founding citizen scientists of Genetic Genealogy. I would use them as references because they are professional in what they do and they are documented in this field. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 18:31, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Can that long footnote not perhaps be turned into a paragraph for the body of the article? It is has good sourcing and the "call" made seems notable.-- Andrew Lancaster ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Please note that Debbie Kennett is a member of ISOGG. Articles by her that are used as sources may not be unbiased. That is not to say don't use them, but please be aware as you use them that the COI diminishes their NPOV credibility. -- RebekahThorn ( talk) 21:07, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Dr. King has a relationship with JOGG as the editor. Because JOGG received free hosting from ISOGG, this might indicate a conflict of interest and/or biased opinions. That again is not to say don't use the sources, just maintain absolute NPOV when using works she has authored or co-authored. -- RebekahThorn ( talk) 21:10, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
I am a member of the ISOGG Facebook group. I am not a formal member of ISOGG and am not involved in any of their projects personally. Please also note I won't necessarily know whether authors of sources are ISOGG members. Helen ( talk) 09:27, 6 July 2013 (UTC)
Currently we have:
ISOGG hosts the regularly updated ISOGG Y-chromosome phylogenetic tree,[5] although it does not endorse it for any specific utility.[14] The tree has elsewhere been described as using the accepted nomenclature for human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups and subclades in that it follows the Y Chromosome Consortium nomenclature as described in Karafet et al. 2008.[15]
I think:
The growth of interest in genetic genealogy has inspired a group of individuals outside the academic area who are passionate about the subject and who have an impressive grasp of the research issues. Two focal points for this group are the International Society of Genetic Genealogy and the Journal of Genetic Genealogy. The ISOGG is a non-profit, non-commercial organization that provides resources and maintains one of the most up-to-date, if not completely academically verified, phylogenetic trees of Y chromosome haplogroups. The Journal of Genetic Genealogy is its online journal, and while it does not abide by the standard system of scientific peer-review, it has attracted contributions from academic geneticists and will no doubt go on to become an important forum through which academics and the public can interact.
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help)
Helen (
talk)
11:03, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Please note that the New York Times is a highly reputable newspaper. Further, Amy Harmon is a reputable journalist who happens to have won a Pulitzer Prize for Explanatory Reporting for exactly the coverage HO says is not acceptable under Wikipedia:UNDUE#Due_and_undue_weight. Do you see my concern DW? -- RebekahThorn ( talk) 13:20, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Helen ( talk) 09:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)In making these statements I have in mind the role of the media and certain written academic opinions that over the past few years have sought to impact this issue. Sensationalistic media articles that relate anecdotal cases should not be used as a basis to regulate. Many of the articles I've read have been biased, reflecting the author's views without presenting voices from both sides of the issue. For example, just last week, a DC area reporter was looking for stories from consumers of DTC testing for an article to be published in anticipation of this meeting. He was contacted by several individuals who had positive testing experiences, but he did not follow up on these contacts. He told another consumer that he was specifically seeking negative experiences.
— Katherine Borges, FDA public meeting on oversight of laboratory developed tests in July 2010
That's a nice quote ( International Society of Genetic Genealogy#Citizen Science) but I think Genetic genealogy#Citizen science and ISOGG (as well as Citizen science) is a better place for it as it is not directly relevant to the ISOGG article. Helen ( talk) 19:18, 11 July 2013 (UTC)
Helen,
ISOGG Mission Statement
"The mission of the International Society of Genetic Genealogy is to advocate for and educate about the use of genetics as a tool for genealogical research, and promote a supportive network for genetic genealogists." [6]
Yep, you are right. There should be a section on Mission Statement and how ISOGG educates and advocates. This definitely needs to be in the article. Then a mention within the section would be how ISOGG uses and promotes
crowdsourcing and
Citizen science with referencing to those main articles. The SW blurb then could show that ISOGG by co-sponsoring the Genographic effort by having S. Wells blurb is consistent with the Mission Statement. I should have thought of that first. One should not have the cart before the horse.
Helen, you are probably better at writing a section like that than I. Since I am a recent editor to this article, would you be so kind to add the Mission Statement and how ISOGG supports that statement? This way, no conflict.
Thank you
Jrcrin001 (
talk)
14:54, 13 July 2013 (UTC)
". . . it's hard to realize you're living history while it happens . . . . " – quote from private email from Ann P. Turner to Georgia Kinney-Bopp. [7]
I have tried. It is not easy to find reliable sources and the focus of this article should be on ISOGG not individual members or tangential projects such as the Genographic Project. Note that the ISOGG mission and how they accomplish it is already covered to some extent in the lede. Does anyone know if Jack Goins is an ISOGG member? Helen Online 12:48, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Why is every thing below not showing on the talk page? What page protection has been done to hide this? Dougweller ( talk) 21:10, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Hello,
I went through a Google Search for both ISOGG & International Society of Genetic Genealogy. Not all are eligible for use with the ISOGG article, but many are. Some simply show ISOGG is highly respected and referred to.
Room and common sense tells me not to post it here. It is an rtf file that is 2.27 megabytes in size. If you have a Windows based machine, WordPad will open it or if you have another word processor that will be used. But, you must give it permission. Click on the following link.
Result of Google search for ISOGG & International Society of Genetic Genealogy.
Dougweller (
talk)
21:10, 14 July 2013 (UTC) (resubmit)
The International Society of Genetic Genealogy (www.isogg.org) advocates the use of genetics as a tool for genealogical research, and provides a support network for genetic genealogists. It hosts the ISOGG Y-haplogroup tree, which has the virtue of being regularly updated.
{{
cite web}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help)CS1 maint: date and year (
link) This is Volume 92, Issue 3, pages 454-459.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:53, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:18, 15 November 2017 (UTC)