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An "attempt to address pov problem" by 68.164.133.174 is given on 20 Mar 2005 (3:02). The attempt consisted of minor editing which vandalized previous contribution:
IMHO, this type of "contribution" by 68.164.133.174 is
sneaky vandalism and
propaganda under the guise of POV. A
bandwagon which
Antaeus has joined by stating "Rephrase to reduce endorsement of POV" as the reason for his revision on 20 Mar 2005 (16:28) in which he chang "Recognizing the"... to "Believing in a" and also reverted my previously explained change.
Exactly how does all this reduce endorsement of POV?--
J.Tell 06:21, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Antaeus, Wikipedia is not a soapbox for Andreas Heldal-Lund.
Wikipedia articles are not:
The link you insist on "contributing" is a propaganda website maintained by Andreas and should have no place within Wikipedia except on the article about Andreas Heldal-Lund and perhaps propaganda.-- J.Tell 19:47, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Putting aside the issue of Andreas Heldal-Lund, is there a website that is critical of Scientology that User:J.Tell feels is fair and non-propagandistic? That would be a help. Cheers, - Willmcw 21:09, May 3, 2005 (UTC)
Willmcw, why did you restore the message that I retracted because I realized you were not the one "resorting" to propaganda? That seems like a pretty sneaky action if you ask me. I am not embarrassed of my statements, but I realized I was wrong so I changed my message.-- J.Tell 02:55, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
"It doesn't look like propaganda to me"-Willmcw, May 11, 2005
"When your goal is to act in an ethical and moral manner, your first and foremost enemy is always yourself."--Antaeus Feldspar
Antaeus Feldspar is using Wikipedia to forward
Andreas Heldal-Lund's
propaganda website. Please see
Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, specifically the section about
propaganda or advocacy of any kind.
IMHO, actions that forward or directly use propaganda reflect either ignorance or a deep seated POV.--
J.Tell 20:56, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
In the article Operation Clambake presents: What is Scientology?
[1], numerous types of
propaganda are being employed:
appeal to fear,
appeal to authority,
demonization,
glittering generality,
obtaining disapproval,
oversimplification,
testimonial and
damaging quotation, use of
virtue words,
slogans. See
Propaganda#Techniques_of_propaganda_generation.
Besides all that, Operation Clambake has very little credibility: Andreas has not corrected his website despite many arguments and discussion people have had about the innacuracies of his statements. Is this the the kind of sources and references Wikipedia wants?--
J.Tell 02:48, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
AI, once again I find your actions cryptic and confusing, and request clarification. You've reverted my last edits, then restored some of my edits, declaring something to the effect that "we've discussed this change already." Huh? My questions: What is it about the current version that seems to have a neutrality problem? What would you like to change to make it more neutral? And why do you think we need multiple links to the same IAS web site? (Two of the links are basically useless, in any case: one to a "privacy" page, another begins at number 7. in a longer list. Really, the main link is all anyone needs. Imagine if your multi-link policy was applied throughout Wikipedia!) BTfromLA 3 July 2005 06:29 (UTC)
A recent edit changed the phrase about what the IAS dues support--instead of the activities of Scientology to the aims of Scientology. This seems like an error to me--money doesn't fund "aims," which are abstractions, it funds actions. Any objection if I revert to the earlier version? BTfromLA 3 July 2005 18:09 (UTC)
Incorrect information. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbard_Association_of_Scientologists_International and http://www.iasmembership.org/en_US/story/index.html as to the facts on the formation of the IAS. Deletions have no reliable source and are skewed. ( Streamlight 6 January 2006 4:44 GMT
You vandalized this article with false information and pr fluff from the "official" site. knock it off.-- Fahrenheit451 01:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Corrections have been made to inaccuracies per http://www.iasmembership.org/en_US/story/index.html and http://www.rtc.org. I have done my homework. The parts I have deleted have no reliable source. Editors should at least try to be somewhat factual. Removed a link that has no specific connection with the specific subject of this page or its content – seem to be just a general negative affect to the Scientologists. Streamlight 17:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I have done my homework as well. Please knock off your POV "reliable source" editing.-- Fahrenheit451 00:48, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Fahrenheit451, if you say the facts I am supplying are incorrect, then please supply some reliable source – please do not just nuke my edits out of hand. I am correcting information that is false and my source for this is the IAS’s site itself. http://www.iasmembership.org/story/index.html Streamlight 09:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
That IAS website page is some POV pr for sure. Lots of omitted data, lots of opinion. It's a pr site.-- Fahrenheit451 10:30, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Antaeus Feldspar – I have changed this numerous times to put in factual information. This has nothing to do with anyone’s POV. This is an encyclopedia and data should be accurate, not unverified and false. Streamlight 11:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Gloria Streamlight, again, I ask that you cease and desist from vandalism. Removal of the wikilinks is a clear case of vandalizing an article. -- Fahrenheit451 17:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Fahrenheit451 – please check the definition of vandalism. It is perfectly within my rights to correct false information. You have not provided any reliable source that gives you reason to keep changing this; accusations of vandalism are not going to change the facts. Streamlight 11:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Streamlight, so where does the IAS claim that it is incorporated? Please provide that reference.-- Fahrenheit451 23:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
An unregistered user with the ip address templates of 216.175.xx.xx has repeatedly vandalized this article by POV deletions along the pr lines of the church of scientology. Any further deletions by this user or users, without following wikipedia policy on discussion, will be reverted by myself.-- Fahrenheit451 00:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Added here to be sifted to see if any of them would be useful in the article.
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help)That Cruise video from the 2004 IAS meeting might be a notable mention... :) AndroidCat ( talk) 03:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I wrote a new page for the IAS. I think the only thing I saved from the earlier version (pre-redirect) was the categories. The page could use a logo. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 12:43, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
International Association of Scientologists article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph of Tom Cruise with his Freedom Medal of Valor around his neck be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
An "attempt to address pov problem" by 68.164.133.174 is given on 20 Mar 2005 (3:02). The attempt consisted of minor editing which vandalized previous contribution:
IMHO, this type of "contribution" by 68.164.133.174 is
sneaky vandalism and
propaganda under the guise of POV. A
bandwagon which
Antaeus has joined by stating "Rephrase to reduce endorsement of POV" as the reason for his revision on 20 Mar 2005 (16:28) in which he chang "Recognizing the"... to "Believing in a" and also reverted my previously explained change.
Exactly how does all this reduce endorsement of POV?--
J.Tell 06:21, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Antaeus, Wikipedia is not a soapbox for Andreas Heldal-Lund.
Wikipedia articles are not:
The link you insist on "contributing" is a propaganda website maintained by Andreas and should have no place within Wikipedia except on the article about Andreas Heldal-Lund and perhaps propaganda.-- J.Tell 19:47, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Putting aside the issue of Andreas Heldal-Lund, is there a website that is critical of Scientology that User:J.Tell feels is fair and non-propagandistic? That would be a help. Cheers, - Willmcw 21:09, May 3, 2005 (UTC)
Willmcw, why did you restore the message that I retracted because I realized you were not the one "resorting" to propaganda? That seems like a pretty sneaky action if you ask me. I am not embarrassed of my statements, but I realized I was wrong so I changed my message.-- J.Tell 02:55, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
"It doesn't look like propaganda to me"-Willmcw, May 11, 2005
"When your goal is to act in an ethical and moral manner, your first and foremost enemy is always yourself."--Antaeus Feldspar
Antaeus Feldspar is using Wikipedia to forward
Andreas Heldal-Lund's
propaganda website. Please see
Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, specifically the section about
propaganda or advocacy of any kind.
IMHO, actions that forward or directly use propaganda reflect either ignorance or a deep seated POV.--
J.Tell 20:56, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
In the article Operation Clambake presents: What is Scientology?
[1], numerous types of
propaganda are being employed:
appeal to fear,
appeal to authority,
demonization,
glittering generality,
obtaining disapproval,
oversimplification,
testimonial and
damaging quotation, use of
virtue words,
slogans. See
Propaganda#Techniques_of_propaganda_generation.
Besides all that, Operation Clambake has very little credibility: Andreas has not corrected his website despite many arguments and discussion people have had about the innacuracies of his statements. Is this the the kind of sources and references Wikipedia wants?--
J.Tell 02:48, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
AI, once again I find your actions cryptic and confusing, and request clarification. You've reverted my last edits, then restored some of my edits, declaring something to the effect that "we've discussed this change already." Huh? My questions: What is it about the current version that seems to have a neutrality problem? What would you like to change to make it more neutral? And why do you think we need multiple links to the same IAS web site? (Two of the links are basically useless, in any case: one to a "privacy" page, another begins at number 7. in a longer list. Really, the main link is all anyone needs. Imagine if your multi-link policy was applied throughout Wikipedia!) BTfromLA 3 July 2005 06:29 (UTC)
A recent edit changed the phrase about what the IAS dues support--instead of the activities of Scientology to the aims of Scientology. This seems like an error to me--money doesn't fund "aims," which are abstractions, it funds actions. Any objection if I revert to the earlier version? BTfromLA 3 July 2005 18:09 (UTC)
Incorrect information. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubbard_Association_of_Scientologists_International and http://www.iasmembership.org/en_US/story/index.html as to the facts on the formation of the IAS. Deletions have no reliable source and are skewed. ( Streamlight 6 January 2006 4:44 GMT
You vandalized this article with false information and pr fluff from the "official" site. knock it off.-- Fahrenheit451 01:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Corrections have been made to inaccuracies per http://www.iasmembership.org/en_US/story/index.html and http://www.rtc.org. I have done my homework. The parts I have deleted have no reliable source. Editors should at least try to be somewhat factual. Removed a link that has no specific connection with the specific subject of this page or its content – seem to be just a general negative affect to the Scientologists. Streamlight 17:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I have done my homework as well. Please knock off your POV "reliable source" editing.-- Fahrenheit451 00:48, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Fahrenheit451, if you say the facts I am supplying are incorrect, then please supply some reliable source – please do not just nuke my edits out of hand. I am correcting information that is false and my source for this is the IAS’s site itself. http://www.iasmembership.org/story/index.html Streamlight 09:23, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
That IAS website page is some POV pr for sure. Lots of omitted data, lots of opinion. It's a pr site.-- Fahrenheit451 10:30, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Antaeus Feldspar – I have changed this numerous times to put in factual information. This has nothing to do with anyone’s POV. This is an encyclopedia and data should be accurate, not unverified and false. Streamlight 11:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Gloria Streamlight, again, I ask that you cease and desist from vandalism. Removal of the wikilinks is a clear case of vandalizing an article. -- Fahrenheit451 17:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Fahrenheit451 – please check the definition of vandalism. It is perfectly within my rights to correct false information. You have not provided any reliable source that gives you reason to keep changing this; accusations of vandalism are not going to change the facts. Streamlight 11:51, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Streamlight, so where does the IAS claim that it is incorporated? Please provide that reference.-- Fahrenheit451 23:54, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
An unregistered user with the ip address templates of 216.175.xx.xx has repeatedly vandalized this article by POV deletions along the pr lines of the church of scientology. Any further deletions by this user or users, without following wikipedia policy on discussion, will be reverted by myself.-- Fahrenheit451 00:50, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Added here to be sifted to see if any of them would be useful in the article.
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help)That Cruise video from the 2004 IAS meeting might be a notable mention... :) AndroidCat ( talk) 03:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I wrote a new page for the IAS. I think the only thing I saved from the earlier version (pre-redirect) was the categories. The page could use a logo. ▶ I am Grorp ◀ 12:43, 2 November 2023 (UTC)