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OK, so footnotes & documentation are necessary here too. No problem. nobs 18:52, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Gamaliel and Nobs01, you have both violated the three-revert rule. Please stop bickering over this article. - dcljr ( talk) 02:57, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Who originally sponsored the IIPA bill? Funkyj 07:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Isn't this law unconstitutional? The 1st amendment clearly acknowledges the freedom of speech and that of the press. Also, being a spy is a very dishonest profession, since espionage is utterly ungentleman-like, so there can be no morality based argument to support protecting spy identities. 195.70.32.136 11:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
The first ammendment does not provide absolute free speech protection... for example it doesn't give you the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater (unless there actually is a fire of course)... it can be argued that speech that speech that directly leads to physical harm is not protected, which I'm sure would be a counter-argument to this law violating the first ammendment, as it can certaintly be argued that revealing covert CIA agents puts them at direct risk of being killed by people and groups that oppose CIA activities (which in fact was the primary justifaction for passing this law in the first place). If you want to add the debate and have soueces, make sure to provide both sides of this to keep the article NPOV.
Am I mistaken about this? I haven't been following recent events but my recollection of the Corn and Isikoff book is that they established that Plame had in fact worked overseas on assignment for the CIA. I changed the paragraph that suggested she hadn't, but the phrasing of the issue needs work (and the whole paragraph could use some sources). csloat 00:52, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
The real issue isn't whether she ever had at any point worked overseas for the CIA, but whether she was a covert agent at the time she was revealed to work for the CIA in the article. If she wasn't covert at the time, the law wouldn't have been broken. (Plame claims that once somene is labeled covert, they are always covert, but some legal experts disagree with that assertion.) That's still being debated, but so far nobody has actually been charged with violating this law in the Plame case. Another counter-argument is that is was not revealed that she was a covert agent, merely that she was an employee of the CIA, which was public knowledge (anybody could have stood outside the gates of CIA Headquarters and watch her drive in) and arguably wouldn't have been a violation of this law.
The CIA has stated that Plame was covert at the time of the leak [4] so this matter is settled. User:CSears
Umm... the CIA did not say Plame was Covert. The footnote points to a MSNBC article that just says "a brief was filed". That's a very different thing. Also, the WaPo article clearly states that Plame's fake company became a matter of public record when she donated $1000 to the Gore campaign. This needs a-changing. - John M.
I think this article needs to be updated. I don't think there is an ongoing investigation into the "Plame affair". Scooter Libby's prosecution was the only legal outcome of the special prosecutors investigation. And apparently none of the statements by Novak, Armatage, or others, met all the criterion in this law.
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OK, so footnotes & documentation are necessary here too. No problem. nobs 18:52, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
Gamaliel and Nobs01, you have both violated the three-revert rule. Please stop bickering over this article. - dcljr ( talk) 02:57, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Who originally sponsored the IIPA bill? Funkyj 07:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Isn't this law unconstitutional? The 1st amendment clearly acknowledges the freedom of speech and that of the press. Also, being a spy is a very dishonest profession, since espionage is utterly ungentleman-like, so there can be no morality based argument to support protecting spy identities. 195.70.32.136 11:47, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
The first ammendment does not provide absolute free speech protection... for example it doesn't give you the right to yell "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater (unless there actually is a fire of course)... it can be argued that speech that speech that directly leads to physical harm is not protected, which I'm sure would be a counter-argument to this law violating the first ammendment, as it can certaintly be argued that revealing covert CIA agents puts them at direct risk of being killed by people and groups that oppose CIA activities (which in fact was the primary justifaction for passing this law in the first place). If you want to add the debate and have soueces, make sure to provide both sides of this to keep the article NPOV.
Am I mistaken about this? I haven't been following recent events but my recollection of the Corn and Isikoff book is that they established that Plame had in fact worked overseas on assignment for the CIA. I changed the paragraph that suggested she hadn't, but the phrasing of the issue needs work (and the whole paragraph could use some sources). csloat 00:52, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
The real issue isn't whether she ever had at any point worked overseas for the CIA, but whether she was a covert agent at the time she was revealed to work for the CIA in the article. If she wasn't covert at the time, the law wouldn't have been broken. (Plame claims that once somene is labeled covert, they are always covert, but some legal experts disagree with that assertion.) That's still being debated, but so far nobody has actually been charged with violating this law in the Plame case. Another counter-argument is that is was not revealed that she was a covert agent, merely that she was an employee of the CIA, which was public knowledge (anybody could have stood outside the gates of CIA Headquarters and watch her drive in) and arguably wouldn't have been a violation of this law.
The CIA has stated that Plame was covert at the time of the leak [4] so this matter is settled. User:CSears
Umm... the CIA did not say Plame was Covert. The footnote points to a MSNBC article that just says "a brief was filed". That's a very different thing. Also, the WaPo article clearly states that Plame's fake company became a matter of public record when she donated $1000 to the Gore campaign. This needs a-changing. - John M.
I think this article needs to be updated. I don't think there is an ongoing investigation into the "Plame affair". Scooter Libby's prosecution was the only legal outcome of the special prosecutors investigation. And apparently none of the statements by Novak, Armatage, or others, met all the criterion in this law.
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