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Images listed directly below cannot be used on Wikipedia - their autors refused to abandon their rights:
1. http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBA_Images/PBA_Images_Heathers_Place.htm Pseudohuman ( talk) 12:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does this article have no images or external links to images of partial-birth abortion (or IDX if you prefer)? Simply that pro-life arguments typically involve the horrible and grisly reality of images is no reason to have such a controversial article without pictures or the topic. 67.171.43.170 01:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
There is NOTHING aesthetically Pleasing about a partial birth abortion. THAT is the POINT. If you WANT aesthetically Pleasing images, go the the article on the human breast or vagina. If you go to surgery you have a photo of a procedure being performed, not a cartoon. If you go to terrorist you see the burning twin towers is that aesthetically acceptable to you? NO! People Died there, but it is Accurate. If you look up death you will see plenty of accurate pictures which describe that. There are Plenty of photos on any of the WAR subjects to illustrate EXACTLY what goes on there. AND the choice of photos can surely be described as Political. Why don't you read the article about Aestheticization of violence so you can see what you are trying to do here. I believe ALL of the abortion issues should contain vivid photos which truely represent both sides. LET Pro abotion rights supporters choose 6 photos and let pro life supporters choose 6 photos that describe or illustrate abortion. I wonder how many seconds this idea will be allowed to stay posted? Giftindex 12:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)giftindex
On the open heart surgery page, there is a photo of the a surgery in progress showing the open chest cavity and heart. This warrants the use of photos or illustrations in this case if some can be found whose use is not limited by copyright. L. Porrello 16:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please add some cartoonish picture if possible. Without it article is seriously incomplete. I suggest this http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBA_Images/PBA_Images_Heathers_Place.htm . I asked nrlc.org about legal status of pictures (waiting for response). Pseudohuman ( talk) 10:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I have replaced the phrase "disarticulate at the neck" with the phrase "decapitate it". This is clearly not an easy area to edit in but I am trying for language which is as non-emotive as possible but does not obscure meaning - "disarticulate at the neck" is a rare and hard to understand phrase - Google gives it just 13 hits, many from Wikipedia and mirrors. My first attempt, "behead", was hurried and admittedly crass, and I see that "remove the head" was unclear (remove from what?). "Decapitate" is an accurate and I hope non emotionally loaded word to convey the meaning clearly. Springnuts ( talk) 21:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
G'day. I'm a volunteer over at the mediation and arbitration boards. I came to the talk section to ask for clarification on 'disarticulate at the neck' as I haven't a clue what that means, and I'm an academic. I am absolutely indifferent towards abortion as I am male and thus do not poop children, and I am inclined to agree that 'decapitate' is acceptable if that is what 'disarticulate at the neck' means. I assumed disarticulate at the neck was weasel words for breaking it's neck, I wasn't aware that they killed the fetus by beheading it. But regardless, the bottom line is that 'disarticulate at the neck' is not the normal and ordinary language that lay people would use, nor understand.
I am not going to bother making any changes as it appears that some party with a neutrality issue feels their agenda is being threatened. I understand that the anti-abortion mob are quite loopy, especially in the United States, but I cannot condone nor agree with the incessant reversions to a term that is too narrow in definition on the grounds that they feel it somehow makes the act of killing a fetus less grotesque. It's a necessary act, they can't just pull the kid out and leave it to die like a fish on a pier. But weasel wording just shows a lack of moral integrity, it doesn't change the fact they're pulling a fetuses head off, nor is the act of pulling a fetuses head off intrinsically 'evil' or something that needs defense, it's a medical procedure and I can off hand think of several other far, far more graphic and horrific procedures that are carried out every day.
So what I am--quite verbosely--getting at here is, whoever the nancy is who keeps reverting ought to reconsider whether they are assisting their political agenda, or just looking like a tockley to all and sundry. If you're that butthurt about the words offered by the other editors above, instead of reverting the next change (and I do suggest that one of the editors above--who are quite rational and neutral in their approach--do reapply their changes) perhaps you should chime in here and we can discuss your grievances and come to a consensus. Arbitrarily reverting every edit that you disapprove of is not how wikipedia works, and I won't go pointing out who the editor/s are who keep reverting anything that offends their sensibilities, provided this doesn't turn into a misconduct issue, but please, please reconsider your behaviour. It's exceptionally counter productive and will just impact adversely on your experience with the project and the project itself, it won't survive the constant queries of 'wtf is disarticulate at the neck' that would be being made, and I would hazard to guess that after reading this article most lay people would be googling that term. BaSH PR0MPT ( talk) 07:51, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
I believe the article is misleading when discussing the origins of the term. It states that "This term was first suggested in 1995 by pro-life congressman Charles T. Canady, while developing the original proposed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban" however, I distinctly remember the term being discussed and even used in some educational media when I was attending school as early as 1990. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.236.114 ( talk) 17:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I tried to put these quotes on the actual page but various editors persisted in deleting them, even though they are objective statements by the SUPREME COURT and Congress during an in depth discussion on the issue of Partial Birth Abortion. In fact, I believe these court cases (Specifically Gonzales V. Carhart) one of the greatest sources of information on the issue. Please see quotes below:
Dr. Haskell's testimony was used to describe the procedure in Gonzales V. Carhart: "At this point, the right-handed surgeon slides the fingers of the left [hand] along the back of the fetus and "hooks" the shoulders of the fetus with the index and ring fingers (palm down). "'While maintaining this tension, lifting the cervix and applying traction to the shoulders with the fingers of the left hand, the surgeon takes a pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. He carefully advances the tip, curved down, along the spine and under the tip of his middle finger. "'[T]he surgeon then forces the scissors into the base of the skull or into the foramen magnum. Having safely entered the skull, he spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening. "'The surgeon removes the scissors and introduces a suction catheter into the hole and evacuates the skull contents. With the catheter still in place, he applies traction to the fetus, removing it completely from the patient.'" 550 U.S. 7 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
Another excerpt from Gonzales V. Carhart "Here is another description from a nurse who witnessed the same method performed on a 26.5-week fetus and who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee: "'Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby's legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby's body and the arms-- everything but the head. The doctor kept the head right inside the uterus.... "'The baby's little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his little feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors in the back of his head, and the baby's arms jerked out, like a startle reaction, like a flinch, like a baby does when he thinks he is going to fall. "'The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening, and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby went completely limp.... "'He cut the umbilical cord and delivered the placenta. He threw the baby in a pan, along with the placenta and the instruments he had just used.'" 550 U.S. 8 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
The Supreme Court reported several variations of the procedure used by different physicians. Excerpt from Gonzales V. Carhart: "Another doctor, for example, squeezes the skull after it has been pierced "so that enough brain tissue exudes to allow the head to pass through." "Still other physicians reach into the cervix with their forceps and crush the fetus' skull." "Others continue to pull the fetus out of the woman until it disarticulates at the neck, in effect decapitating it. These doctors then grasp the head with forceps, crush it, and remove it." 550 U.S. 8 (2007), Opinion of the Court Excerpt.
Another testimony regarding the procedure from an Abortion Doctor before the Supreme Court: "Another doctor testified he crushes a fetus' skull not only to reduce its size but also to ensure the fetus is dead before it is removed. For the staff to have to deal with a fetus that has "some viability to it, some movement of limbs," according to this doctor, "[is] always a difficult situation." 550 U.S. 9 (2007).
In Gonzales V. Carhart, "Abortion doctors testified, for example, that intact D&E decreases the risk of cervical laceration or uterine perforation because it requires fewer passes into the uterus with surgical instruments and does not require the removal of bony fragments of the dismembered fetus, fragments that may be sharp." 550 U.S. 31 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
Congress found that "No one would dispute that, for many, D&E is a procedure itself laden with the power to devalue human life," "The abortion methods it proscribed had a "disturbing similarity to the killing of a newborn infant," and that ""Implicity approving such a brutal and inhumane procedure by choosing not to prohibit it will further coarsen society to the humanity of not only newborns, but all vulnerable and innocent human life, making it increasingly difficult to protect such life."" 550 U.S. 28 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
"Congress was concerned, furthermore, with the effects on the medical community and on its reputation caused by the practice of partial-birth abortion. The findings in the Act explain: "Partial-birth abortion...confuses the medical, legal, and ethical duties of physicians to preserve and promote life, as the physician acts directly against the physical life of a child, whom he or she had just delivered all but the head, out of the womb, in order to end that life." Congressional Findings." 550 U.S. 27 (2007), Opinion of the Court, Gonzales V. Carhart.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Deuter1000 ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 30 July 2008
Could someone please take the Obama bashing parts out of the text. Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of information to the world , not political campaigning! Shame on you for using it as such! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.246.63.226 ( talk) 13:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
What is the difference between Partial birth abortion, Postnatal abortion and Postpartum abortion ? Is it all the same and/or does it come close to infanticide ? 69.157.239.212 ( talk) 15:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Sentence 2 under Partial-birth abortion. "The term is not recognized as a medical term by the American Medical Association[7] nor"... The link did not go any source of information; it seems it has moved. Please rectify.--Posted by: SoC ( talk) -- Posted at:: 00:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I have heard of cases where the partial birth abortion failed in that the baby was fully born. I suppose it can pop out fast. Further, I have heard that in some of those cases the baby is then, what, aborted? murdered? terminated? Are there any reliable sources for either case (born alive or born alive then terminated)? I do not see that mentioned in the article. Shouldn't that be in the article? I have even heard of a baby born alive and left for a day or so until it eventually died despite best efforts of a priest once he noticed some movement. I am not likely to edit this page further, so I hope others will pick up the baton and go from there. -- LegitimateAndEvenCompelling ( talk) 02:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
In the partial-birth abortion section, it's claimed that the term "partial-birth abortion" is "primarily used in political discourse — chiefly regarding the legality of abortion in the United States." The source for this statement is a pro-choice, left-wing, anti-religious Canadian political organization that ironically has the term "religious tolerance" in its name. The term is used in other contexts in the United States, not just in reference the legality of abortion per se, but also in regard to the legality of the particular procedure, and also to the procedure itself. I think that a more neutral source should be found for this claim than one that has an ad for abortions on the page where we're supposed to verify the claim. I think that this sentence should be removed.
Also, I'm not opposed to relating the history of the term, as long as the information is properly sourced, but to say that the term "partial birth abortion" is not "recognized as a medical term" by the AMA or ACOG not relevant to a balanced article. It only serves the needs of those who support the legality of the procedure, and who want to score high school debating points by mentioning this fact. (Does using the word "discourse" ever get old)? Having the "shits" probably isn't "recognized" (whatever that means) by the AMA either, but that doesn't stop people from using the term, even though, like "partial-birth abortion", it offends some. This article has many shortcomings, but the first paragraph in this section (as well as the entire section for that matter) is so blatantly flawed that it needs a complete rewrite. Hopefully someone with more time than me will do it, but I'll give it a try eventually if no one else will. -- AntigrandiosË Talk 10:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
FOUR links to articles in support of this procedure, and only one link to an article against it. Last I checked, that is biased. DavidSteinle ( talk) 21:25, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
I have added a new subsection to the UNITED STATES section, entitled "clinical response to bans on the procedure", in which I point out that the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act only forbids "partial-birth abortions" of LIVING fetuses; therefore, late-term abortion providers now routinely induce fetal demise before starting the extraction, in order to avoid violating the ban. Goblinshark17 ( talk) 07:42, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
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![]() | The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
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![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to abortion, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
![]() | It is requested that an anatomical diagram or diagrams be
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Graphic Lab. For more information, refer to discussion on this page and/or the listing at Wikipedia:Requested images. |
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Images listed directly below cannot be used on Wikipedia - their autors refused to abandon their rights:
1. http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBA_Images/PBA_Images_Heathers_Place.htm Pseudohuman ( talk) 12:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Why does this article have no images or external links to images of partial-birth abortion (or IDX if you prefer)? Simply that pro-life arguments typically involve the horrible and grisly reality of images is no reason to have such a controversial article without pictures or the topic. 67.171.43.170 01:09, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
There is NOTHING aesthetically Pleasing about a partial birth abortion. THAT is the POINT. If you WANT aesthetically Pleasing images, go the the article on the human breast or vagina. If you go to surgery you have a photo of a procedure being performed, not a cartoon. If you go to terrorist you see the burning twin towers is that aesthetically acceptable to you? NO! People Died there, but it is Accurate. If you look up death you will see plenty of accurate pictures which describe that. There are Plenty of photos on any of the WAR subjects to illustrate EXACTLY what goes on there. AND the choice of photos can surely be described as Political. Why don't you read the article about Aestheticization of violence so you can see what you are trying to do here. I believe ALL of the abortion issues should contain vivid photos which truely represent both sides. LET Pro abotion rights supporters choose 6 photos and let pro life supporters choose 6 photos that describe or illustrate abortion. I wonder how many seconds this idea will be allowed to stay posted? Giftindex 12:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)giftindex
On the open heart surgery page, there is a photo of the a surgery in progress showing the open chest cavity and heart. This warrants the use of photos or illustrations in this case if some can be found whose use is not limited by copyright. L. Porrello 16:41, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Please add some cartoonish picture if possible. Without it article is seriously incomplete. I suggest this http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/PBA_Images/PBA_Images_Heathers_Place.htm . I asked nrlc.org about legal status of pictures (waiting for response). Pseudohuman ( talk) 10:10, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
I have replaced the phrase "disarticulate at the neck" with the phrase "decapitate it". This is clearly not an easy area to edit in but I am trying for language which is as non-emotive as possible but does not obscure meaning - "disarticulate at the neck" is a rare and hard to understand phrase - Google gives it just 13 hits, many from Wikipedia and mirrors. My first attempt, "behead", was hurried and admittedly crass, and I see that "remove the head" was unclear (remove from what?). "Decapitate" is an accurate and I hope non emotionally loaded word to convey the meaning clearly. Springnuts ( talk) 21:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
G'day. I'm a volunteer over at the mediation and arbitration boards. I came to the talk section to ask for clarification on 'disarticulate at the neck' as I haven't a clue what that means, and I'm an academic. I am absolutely indifferent towards abortion as I am male and thus do not poop children, and I am inclined to agree that 'decapitate' is acceptable if that is what 'disarticulate at the neck' means. I assumed disarticulate at the neck was weasel words for breaking it's neck, I wasn't aware that they killed the fetus by beheading it. But regardless, the bottom line is that 'disarticulate at the neck' is not the normal and ordinary language that lay people would use, nor understand.
I am not going to bother making any changes as it appears that some party with a neutrality issue feels their agenda is being threatened. I understand that the anti-abortion mob are quite loopy, especially in the United States, but I cannot condone nor agree with the incessant reversions to a term that is too narrow in definition on the grounds that they feel it somehow makes the act of killing a fetus less grotesque. It's a necessary act, they can't just pull the kid out and leave it to die like a fish on a pier. But weasel wording just shows a lack of moral integrity, it doesn't change the fact they're pulling a fetuses head off, nor is the act of pulling a fetuses head off intrinsically 'evil' or something that needs defense, it's a medical procedure and I can off hand think of several other far, far more graphic and horrific procedures that are carried out every day.
So what I am--quite verbosely--getting at here is, whoever the nancy is who keeps reverting ought to reconsider whether they are assisting their political agenda, or just looking like a tockley to all and sundry. If you're that butthurt about the words offered by the other editors above, instead of reverting the next change (and I do suggest that one of the editors above--who are quite rational and neutral in their approach--do reapply their changes) perhaps you should chime in here and we can discuss your grievances and come to a consensus. Arbitrarily reverting every edit that you disapprove of is not how wikipedia works, and I won't go pointing out who the editor/s are who keep reverting anything that offends their sensibilities, provided this doesn't turn into a misconduct issue, but please, please reconsider your behaviour. It's exceptionally counter productive and will just impact adversely on your experience with the project and the project itself, it won't survive the constant queries of 'wtf is disarticulate at the neck' that would be being made, and I would hazard to guess that after reading this article most lay people would be googling that term. BaSH PR0MPT ( talk) 07:51, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
I believe the article is misleading when discussing the origins of the term. It states that "This term was first suggested in 1995 by pro-life congressman Charles T. Canady, while developing the original proposed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban" however, I distinctly remember the term being discussed and even used in some educational media when I was attending school as early as 1990. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.236.114 ( talk) 17:44, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
I tried to put these quotes on the actual page but various editors persisted in deleting them, even though they are objective statements by the SUPREME COURT and Congress during an in depth discussion on the issue of Partial Birth Abortion. In fact, I believe these court cases (Specifically Gonzales V. Carhart) one of the greatest sources of information on the issue. Please see quotes below:
Dr. Haskell's testimony was used to describe the procedure in Gonzales V. Carhart: "At this point, the right-handed surgeon slides the fingers of the left [hand] along the back of the fetus and "hooks" the shoulders of the fetus with the index and ring fingers (palm down). "'While maintaining this tension, lifting the cervix and applying traction to the shoulders with the fingers of the left hand, the surgeon takes a pair of blunt curved Metzenbaum scissors in the right hand. He carefully advances the tip, curved down, along the spine and under the tip of his middle finger. "'[T]he surgeon then forces the scissors into the base of the skull or into the foramen magnum. Having safely entered the skull, he spreads the scissors to enlarge the opening. "'The surgeon removes the scissors and introduces a suction catheter into the hole and evacuates the skull contents. With the catheter still in place, he applies traction to the fetus, removing it completely from the patient.'" 550 U.S. 7 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
Another excerpt from Gonzales V. Carhart "Here is another description from a nurse who witnessed the same method performed on a 26.5-week fetus and who testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee: "'Dr. Haskell went in with forceps and grabbed the baby's legs and pulled them down into the birth canal. Then he delivered the baby's body and the arms-- everything but the head. The doctor kept the head right inside the uterus.... "'The baby's little fingers were clasping and unclasping, and his little feet were kicking. Then the doctor stuck the scissors in the back of his head, and the baby's arms jerked out, like a startle reaction, like a flinch, like a baby does when he thinks he is going to fall. "'The doctor opened up the scissors, stuck a high-powered suction tube into the opening, and sucked the baby's brains out. Now the baby went completely limp.... "'He cut the umbilical cord and delivered the placenta. He threw the baby in a pan, along with the placenta and the instruments he had just used.'" 550 U.S. 8 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
The Supreme Court reported several variations of the procedure used by different physicians. Excerpt from Gonzales V. Carhart: "Another doctor, for example, squeezes the skull after it has been pierced "so that enough brain tissue exudes to allow the head to pass through." "Still other physicians reach into the cervix with their forceps and crush the fetus' skull." "Others continue to pull the fetus out of the woman until it disarticulates at the neck, in effect decapitating it. These doctors then grasp the head with forceps, crush it, and remove it." 550 U.S. 8 (2007), Opinion of the Court Excerpt.
Another testimony regarding the procedure from an Abortion Doctor before the Supreme Court: "Another doctor testified he crushes a fetus' skull not only to reduce its size but also to ensure the fetus is dead before it is removed. For the staff to have to deal with a fetus that has "some viability to it, some movement of limbs," according to this doctor, "[is] always a difficult situation." 550 U.S. 9 (2007).
In Gonzales V. Carhart, "Abortion doctors testified, for example, that intact D&E decreases the risk of cervical laceration or uterine perforation because it requires fewer passes into the uterus with surgical instruments and does not require the removal of bony fragments of the dismembered fetus, fragments that may be sharp." 550 U.S. 31 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
Congress found that "No one would dispute that, for many, D&E is a procedure itself laden with the power to devalue human life," "The abortion methods it proscribed had a "disturbing similarity to the killing of a newborn infant," and that ""Implicity approving such a brutal and inhumane procedure by choosing not to prohibit it will further coarsen society to the humanity of not only newborns, but all vulnerable and innocent human life, making it increasingly difficult to protect such life."" 550 U.S. 28 (2007), Opinion of the Court.
"Congress was concerned, furthermore, with the effects on the medical community and on its reputation caused by the practice of partial-birth abortion. The findings in the Act explain: "Partial-birth abortion...confuses the medical, legal, and ethical duties of physicians to preserve and promote life, as the physician acts directly against the physical life of a child, whom he or she had just delivered all but the head, out of the womb, in order to end that life." Congressional Findings." 550 U.S. 27 (2007), Opinion of the Court, Gonzales V. Carhart.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Deuter1000 ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 30 July 2008
Could someone please take the Obama bashing parts out of the text. Wikipedia is supposed to be a source of information to the world , not political campaigning! Shame on you for using it as such! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.246.63.226 ( talk) 13:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
What is the difference between Partial birth abortion, Postnatal abortion and Postpartum abortion ? Is it all the same and/or does it come close to infanticide ? 69.157.239.212 ( talk) 15:31, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
Sentence 2 under Partial-birth abortion. "The term is not recognized as a medical term by the American Medical Association[7] nor"... The link did not go any source of information; it seems it has moved. Please rectify.--Posted by: SoC ( talk) -- Posted at:: 00:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
I have heard of cases where the partial birth abortion failed in that the baby was fully born. I suppose it can pop out fast. Further, I have heard that in some of those cases the baby is then, what, aborted? murdered? terminated? Are there any reliable sources for either case (born alive or born alive then terminated)? I do not see that mentioned in the article. Shouldn't that be in the article? I have even heard of a baby born alive and left for a day or so until it eventually died despite best efforts of a priest once he noticed some movement. I am not likely to edit this page further, so I hope others will pick up the baton and go from there. -- LegitimateAndEvenCompelling ( talk) 02:41, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
In the partial-birth abortion section, it's claimed that the term "partial-birth abortion" is "primarily used in political discourse — chiefly regarding the legality of abortion in the United States." The source for this statement is a pro-choice, left-wing, anti-religious Canadian political organization that ironically has the term "religious tolerance" in its name. The term is used in other contexts in the United States, not just in reference the legality of abortion per se, but also in regard to the legality of the particular procedure, and also to the procedure itself. I think that a more neutral source should be found for this claim than one that has an ad for abortions on the page where we're supposed to verify the claim. I think that this sentence should be removed.
Also, I'm not opposed to relating the history of the term, as long as the information is properly sourced, but to say that the term "partial birth abortion" is not "recognized as a medical term" by the AMA or ACOG not relevant to a balanced article. It only serves the needs of those who support the legality of the procedure, and who want to score high school debating points by mentioning this fact. (Does using the word "discourse" ever get old)? Having the "shits" probably isn't "recognized" (whatever that means) by the AMA either, but that doesn't stop people from using the term, even though, like "partial-birth abortion", it offends some. This article has many shortcomings, but the first paragraph in this section (as well as the entire section for that matter) is so blatantly flawed that it needs a complete rewrite. Hopefully someone with more time than me will do it, but I'll give it a try eventually if no one else will. -- AntigrandiosË Talk 10:29, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
FOUR links to articles in support of this procedure, and only one link to an article against it. Last I checked, that is biased. DavidSteinle ( talk) 21:25, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
I have added a new subsection to the UNITED STATES section, entitled "clinical response to bans on the procedure", in which I point out that the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act only forbids "partial-birth abortions" of LIVING fetuses; therefore, late-term abortion providers now routinely induce fetal demise before starting the extraction, in order to avoid violating the ban. Goblinshark17 ( talk) 07:42, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
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