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Hello. The information about tripling the troops is taken from Yahoo News. IT IS NEWS NOT HISTORY. It is irrelevant in Military History of Ingushetia. The information already present in Modern Ingush History section. Ingushetia 06:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)Ingushetia
That the neighbors "know" the Ingush to be cruel brigands is not fair language. Perhaps there is a "reputation" for being strong opponents when crossed. ~ RD
"Two Tanks destroyed with one rocket propelled grenade" - seems a little far fetched am prepared to stand corrected if you can point another firm example or even explain how it could be done, but i get the point they can pretty mean. excellent article about a war hidden from view
"uncontrolled Ingush Informal Armed Groups (IAG) from Nazran started the aggressive[citation needed] assault upon North Ossetian territory."- this is absurdity.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.6.38.132 ( talk • contribs) . ...which is exactly why a citation has been requested. There is no need to request citation for each word, by the way—one note is sufficient when a whole sentence is under doubt.— Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 20:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
“ | It seems that he wanted to liberate the land for Ossetians and Cossaks | ” |
Johanna Nichols' paper is used to reference this sentence. I haven't found such words there though. Is it a mistake or have I missed something? Alæxis ¿question? 07:46, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It's quite understandable. Try search button on the web browser. One example: "All Russian governments -- czars, Soviets, post-Soviet Russia -- have used various means to remove Chechen and Ingush population from economically important areas and to encourage settlement there by Russians and Russian Cossacks; hence the mixed population of the cities and lowlands." keep reading you will see more on the Berkley website. Ingushetia
P.S. Anyway Alexis I am going to provide sources for every mark "citation needed". Its just ridiculous that you put the marks almost after every word in the article. Ingushetia ( talk) 17:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC) P.P.S. Read further "Ingush homes and lands were given to Ossetians" Don't worry I will provide more sources just like with the village of Zaur. Thanks.
“ | The same year Russian Tsar offered help in deportation of Ingushes and Chechens to Turkey and the Middle East by claiming that "Muslims need to live under Muslim rulers". It seems that he wanted to liberate the land for Ossetians and Cossaks[14]. | ” |
What is this word supposed to mean here? Does it characterise Islam as a whole or the particular variety of it brought to Ingushetia? In the first case it should be removed as this article is not about Islam and its characteristics and in the second case it needs a reference. Alæxis ¿question? 17:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Btw I've re-created the article about www. ingushetiya.ru that got deleted and added facts proving its notability. Alæxis ¿question? 19:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The article needs to be seriously updated. The situation in the republic is precarious and the violence of 2007 has continued into 2008. Today, the Russian police fired into the opposition protesters in Nazran. [1] -- Kober Talk 12:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Come on, now. Who listed "Death Squads" under the heading of Natural Resources? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Judyjetson (
talk •
contribs)
17:05, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
-- Attack of the trolls ... again
Ingushetia (
talk) Ingushetia
Dagestan contains over 40 nationalities/languages. Some of them are NOT related to each other. The Dagestani are NOT ancestors to the Ingush, Chechen, Bats, Kistin languages; the four languages belong to the NAKH language family. Ingushetia ( talk) Ingushetia
Science 19 May 2000: Vol. 288. no. 5469, p. 1158 DOI: 10.1126/science.288.5469.1158: "LINGUISTICS: Peering Into the Past, With Words Bernice Wuethrich Prehistorians typically rely on stones, bones, and DNA to piece together the past, but linguists argue that words preserve history too. Two new studies, both based on endangered languages, offer new insights into the identity of mysterious ancient peoples, from the first farmers to early inhabitants of the British Isles. Archaeologists have long known that some 10,000 years ago, ancient people in Mesopotamia discovered farming, raising sheep, cattle, wheat, and barley. And researchers knew that by 8000 years ago agriculture had spread north to the Caucasus Mountains. But they had little inkling of whether traces of this first farming culture lived on in any particular culture today. People have migrated extensively through the region over the millennia, and there's no continuous archaeological record of any single culture. Linguistically, most languages in the region and in the Fertile Crescent itself are relatively recent arrivals from elsewhere. Now, however, linguist Johanna Nichols of the University of California, Berkeley, has used language to connect modern people of the Caucasus region to the ancient farmers of the Fertile Crescent. She analyzed the Nakh-Daghestanian linguistic family, which today includes Chechen, Ingush, and Batsbi on the Nakh side and some 24 languages on the Daghestanian side; all are spoken in parts of Russia (such as Chechnya), Georgia, and Azerbaijan. Languages heard near the Caspian Sea today trace their ancestry back to the first farmers of the Fertile Crescent. Nichols had previously established the family tree of Nakh-Daghestanian by analyzing similarities in the related languages much the way biologists create a phylogeny of species. She found that three languages converge at the very base of the tree. Today, speakers of all three live side by side in the southeastern foothills of the Caucasus Mountains, suggesting that this was the homeland of the ancestral language--on the very fringes of the Fertile Crescent. To get a rough estimate of when the language arose, Nichols used a linguistic method that assumes a semiregular rate of vocabulary loss per 1000 years, and she dated the ancestral language to about 8000 years ago. Nichols also found that the ancestral language contains a host of words for farming. The Chechen words muq (barley), stu (bull), and tkha (wool), for example, all have closely related forms in the earliest branches of Daghestanian, as do words for pear, apple, dairy product, and oxen yoke--all elements of the farming package developed in the Fertile Crescent. Thus location, time, and vocabulary all suggest that the farmers of the region were proto-Nakh-Daghestanians. "The Nakh-Daghestanian languages are the closest thing we have to a direct continuation of the cultural and linguistic community that gave rise to Western civilization," Nichols says. Population geneticist Henry Harpending of the University of Utah, Salt Lake City, has just begun the job of unraveling the genetic ancestry of Daghestanian speakers and is impressed with Nichols's work. "For years I wished linguists would get in the game. Nichols sure is." Nichols is now reconstructing the ancestral language, hoping for more clues to the culture of these early farmers. But she has to work fast, for the three Nakh languages are vanishing. Although there are still about 900,000 Chechen speakers left, the other two tongues have fewer speakers, and all three are being eroded by war, economic chaos, and Russian educational practices, Nichols says." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.19.215 ( talk) 11:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Please see it for yourself. Dagestan: Avars from Avar Kaganate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Khazar0.png Kumyks Turkish-speaking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumyks .... etc. look into their history. I know better than you who belong where in the Caucasus. Proto- means Pre-. So it is written Pre-Ingush people. That means ancestors of Ingush people. Kapish? Speaking about Sino-Caucasian you are right. It is just a "sick" imagination of some professors from Russia http://starling.rinet.ru/Texts/scc.pdf But you are right you have a Ph.D. in "experienced editor". Ingushetia ( talk) Ingushetia.
Reverting without any comments (not to say about using the talkpage) isn't very polite. The first issue is the fact tag, why has it been removed without adding any sources instead?
The second issue is Stalin's ethnicity. There are two aspects of this problem - his ethnicity per se and whether it has to do anything with his orders to deport Ingush and Chechen people. As far as I know it's far from certain that Stalin's father was an Ossetian - it's just a hypothesis. So Stalin is maybe half-Ossetian by blood, but he certainly didn't consider himself as such.
And unless there are reliable sources linking his ethnicity and his policies towards Ingush and Chechen people his ethnicity shouldn't be mentioned here at all.
ps. And of course Mandelshtam's poem can't be used as a reference. Alæxis ¿question? 06:59, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Так будет речка смерти: верно, Дано старинными людьми». «А сколько их дралось примерно Сегодня?» — «Тысяч до семи». «А много горцы потеряли?» «Как знать? — зачем вы не считали!» «Да! будет, - кто-то тут сказал, - Им в память этот день кровавый!» Чеченец посмотрел лукаво И головою покачал.” Was Lermontov wrong? No! He is damn right. So, why do you question Mandelshtam? Because he had balls to call something which others were afraid to call??? “Baksan claims that Stalin was a Mountain Jew! Besides the book itself is rather notorious.” I’ve done some search on the web about Deni Baksan. It appears he is a well known scientist and writer from Chechnya. “Deni Baksan - an outstanding scientist and writer, the author of many well-known works about the exciting problems of our time.” I’ve read some sections of the book. One fact I didn’t know that Ossetians were celebrating and dancing when Chechens and Ingush were deported in 1944. I will add it to the Ingushetia section. Thanks for you help. Well now considering the books written by Deni Baksan and by Beniamin Kaplan "Ossetians - Iranian Jews" [2] which was published in Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia; I understand why Russians jumped into Georgia and recognized independence of Ossetia. The thing I don’t understand: why did Stalin kill Jews like Mandelshtem??? I have only theories. Do you know anything Alex?Ingushetia 15:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)Ingushetia
“ | В статье проанализированы основные положения современного чеченского национального мифа (автор — Дени Баксан), который фактически является профашистской мифологизированной идеологией. Эта идеология апеллирует к «арийской» теории расовой борьбы Гитлера и ультрарадикальному исламизму, а также содержит национально-религиозную нетерпимость, в частности, антиеврейскую и антииудейскую позиции в качестве одного из ключевых составных элементов. | ” |
“ | In this article main theses of modern Chechen national mythology (author - Deni Baksan) are analysed. This national myth is really a pro-fascist ideology that makes references to Hitler's theory of racial struggle and radical Islam(ism). Intolerance (for example towards Jews) is one of the key elements of this ideology | ” |
(my translation)
Is Stalin's ethnicity relevant to the history of Ingushetia and if yes, how should it be mentioned (see Talk:Ingushetia#recent_edits for the sources and the discussion).
Stalin's alleged Ossetian ethnicity is irrelevant here. For one thing, the idea he had Ossetian roots is mere speculation. More importantly, the implication that he was anti-Ingush because he was an Ossetian and this is the reason why he deported them en masse is a fringe theory, if not complete original research (Stalin also deported the Crimean Tatars and Kalmyks, for example - neither of those peoples have strong historical connections to the Ossetians). Wikipedia policy specifically warns about making such insinuations by stringing two unrelated facts or theories together (it's called synthesis): "Synthesis occurs when an editor puts together multiple sources to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources. Even if published by reliable sources, material must not be connected together in such a way that it constitutes original research. If the sources cited do not explicitly reach the same conclusion, or if the sources cited are not directly related to the article subject, then the editor is engaged in original research." At least one editor seems to be using this article as a soapbox to refight the Ossetian–Ingush conflict of the early 1990s and there is a strongly anti-Ossetian flavour to the page which is inconsistent with our requirements for neutrality. -- Folantin ( talk) 10:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm tempted to block you without a warning. You know better. Take it to Talk. kwami ( talk) 19:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Has anyone investigated whether or not this place is real? I think this may be a hoax - some hints that it is fake are that it has way too many vowels in the name for a soviet republic, it sounds vaguely reminiscent of the anime cartoon Inuyasha and many of the edits have been made by a small set of users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.64.97.67 ( talk) 19:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
First paragraph text says "...established in 1991" while sidebar says June 1992. Can anyone confirm and correct article to rid the contradiction, please? Also I agree the current map is near worthless, without labeling surrounding areas. What are the zones anyway? 168.166.196.40 ( talk) 13:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Here's what is written in the article:
“ | Ingush are known by the following names: Ghalghai, Gelgai, Kist, Koost, Amazons, Gergar, Narts, Gegar, Dzoordzook, Glivi, Ongusht, Alans, Galash, Tsori, Jairakh, Khamhoi, Metshal, Fyappi, and Nyasareth. | ” |
Here's what is written in the source, on the other hand:
“ | В древних исторических хрониках ингушские племена значатся под различными именами “гаргареи”, “дзурдзуки”, “глигвы”, “кусты” или “кисты”, “колканцы” и “галгаи”. | ” |
“ | В X - XIII веках на территории Центрального Кавказа уже известно Аланское государственное образование (согласно утверждениям академика П.С. Палласа ингушские племена “кисты” являются прямыми потомками алан) | ” |
So, first, it's not clear where did half of the names in the article come from. Second, even this article (located at ingushetia.org and written by Ingush historian) doesn't say that Ingush are the descendants of Alans. It's just written that according to a certain historian it is so. As far as I know it's a rather non-orthodox theory so Alans shouldn't be in this list. Alæxis ¿question? 16:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Republic of Adygea which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RM bot 11:00, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the following text to this page, as it appears to be a misreading of the original Russian, or results from a poor Google translation:-
The citation quoted was at Respublika Ingushetiya Oficial'nyy Sayt
The original text seems to suggest that Venezuela will encourage some of its municipalities and states to twin with either Ingushetia or with Ingushetian regions and municipalities; not that Venezuela is doing so. There is, of course, no such place as Venezuela region in Venezuela. Can anyone with a good knowledge of Russian and English shed any further light on this? Skinsmoke ( talk) 03:03, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
the death rate is 3.8 per thousands? thats just impossible! birth rate of Ingushetia has been falling since 2000, I believe this table is manipulated by someone please either correct it or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.73.78.62 ( talk) 03:21, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
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. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.32.125.140 ( talk) 09:20, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
See WP:RSN#Are these reliable sources for the origins of an ethnic population?. Dougweller ( talk) 14:06, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
This is currently included in the Civil disorders subsection of the History section.
“ |
|
” |
The first passage is about civil disorder in Ukraine, not Ingushetia and its only connection with Ingushetia is the figure of Magomed Khazbiev. This article cannot contain every action by any relatively known Ingush.
In any case the words "and participates in anti-Russian campaign there" are not found in the source and so fall under both WP:OR and WP:POV.
The second passage has nothing at all to do with Ingushetia, it is just about some North Caucasian instructors, so it should be in the Insurgency in the North Caucasus article (not speaking for now about the credibility of the source). Alæxis ¿question? 12:24, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
References
I have to agree with Kaldari in “ #Needs a better map”, above: The map File:Ingushetia in Russia.svg, when reduced to infobox size, makes the location of Ingushetia almost undetectable — and I mean that literally, as Ingushetia is reduced to only a few pink pixels. If I didn't already know where to look on the map, I don't think I could have found Ingushetia at all.
May I suggest that someone experienced with Wikipedia maps either add some more-visible highlighting (a circle, an arrow, or the like), or perhaps save a composite image showing multiple scales?
Some examples of multiple-scale maps, by editors Klodde and TUBS, are:
Would something similar be useful here?
Unician ∇ 12:35, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
This article needs a better map image. The one in the infobox is pretty useless at thumbnail size. Kaldari ( talk) 17:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
unreliable sources!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edmundo Vargas ( talk • contribs) 11:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ingushetia/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The Economy section could be expanded to include data on domestic and foreign trade, types of investment, GNP and GDP. The Geography section's Natural Resources area could be expanded to explain natural resource production, extraction, annual volumes of output, market delivery, etc. A culture section could be added (esp. for language usage). And the Religion section could be expanded to convey the various Religions' population percentages and their relationships with Ingushetia's society and it's politics. robertjohnsonrj 02:45, 11 December 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 18:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
I believe that the section name "Independent State" is misleading as Ingushetia was only a part of the Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus. It is the same as saying that California is independent as a part of US. Also I haven't seen sources that use this word with regards to Ingushetia of that time. Therefore I propose to change the name to "Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus". Alæxis ¿question? 07:48, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
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This is an outstandingly level-headed report, preserving NPOV on a tense subject. Wetman 05:50, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Does Ingushetia really border Kabardino-Balkaria and Stavropol Krai? It doesn't look like it does on the maps that I have seen. Nicke Lilltroll
The russophobic language and veiled, not so thinly, but veiled weasel words against "Russia" which doesn't mean anything if you think about it, there's the Russian people, which is above all the ethnicity of anyone living in a Federal Republic or Oblast and such inside the Russian Federation. Chechen people are Russian for example. There's a serious veiled POV issue here (and in other southern Russia Caucasus Republics/territory) DeadZombieSwitch ( talk) 20:46, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello @ Kavkas:. Please do not resort to WP:PERSONAL attacks like insinuating I have some "communist agenda" [ [6]]. I don't. There are many issues with this map as has been explained numerous times:
There are further issues but for the sake of not creating a wall of text I will stop here. Please explain why despite these issues, the image must remain on the page, if you want to re-add it. Thanks. --
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Hey commie leave your phone number I need to talk to you
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The map depicting the migration of the Ingush from the Fertile Crescent to the Caucasus is not backed by a reliable source. The caption mentions the article Peering Into the Past, With Words by Bernice Wuethrich in Science. While the Science is a reliable source by itself the said article is not a study of Ingush people. Bernice Wuetrich herself is also not a historian but rather a scientific communications expert and freelance science writer. Needless to say the claim about something that happened with the ancestors of the Ingush 12 thousand years ago is exceptional and we requires high-quality data sources to include it in the article. Alaexis ¿question? 16:00, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
Wuetrich's article says:
“ | Archaeologists have long known that some 10,000 years ago, ancient people in Mesopotamia discovered farming, raising sheep, cattle, wheat, and barley. And researchers knew that by 8000 years ago agriculture had spread north to the Caucasian mountains | ” |
So the discovery of agriculture happened before the migration, and not after it, as implied by the current version of the pre-history section. We could say something like that.
“ | According to Johanna Nichols, linguistic evidence indicates that the ancestors of Nakh migrated to the slopes of the Caucasus from the Fertile Crescent bringing farming and raising sheep and cattle. | ” |
Alaexis ¿question? 15:20, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
The map caption seems to be WP:OR
“ | Top right corner, Ingushetia is labeled as Gelia, with Ingush cities: Nasra (Nazran), and Wladikaukas (Vladikavkaz) with Daryal Pass running on the west side of Gelia. | ” |
The map does not say anywhere that Gelia refers to Ingushetia and does not characterise these cities as Ingush. It's not self-evident because it covers both Ingush and Chechen lands (for example Grosnaja). Unless there are reliable sources for these claims, this part of the caption needs to be removed. Alaexis ¿question? 15:25, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Kavkas, you keep reverting numerous copyedit improvements that UrielAcosta has made, such as removing editorialising ("It is noteworthy, that according..."), using Arabic numerals for centuries, etc. If you are restoring something, please respect the work of other editors.
Also, while you say that you are restring sourced information, there are no sources for large parts of it, e.g.
“ | The history of the Ingush is closely related to Chechens. Byzantine and Georgian missionaries partially Christianised the Ingush, although Christianity was weakened by the Mongol invasions. The remains of several churches, notably the Tkhabya-Yerd and the Albe-Yerd can be found in Ingushetia. The Ingush gradually converted to Islam troughout the 18th-19th century. Vakhushti of Kartli wrote in 1745, that the inhabitants of the village Angushti were Sunni Muslims. | ” |
“ | The Ingush, a nationality group indigenous to the Caucasus, mostly inhabit Ingushetia. They refer to themselves as Ghalghai (from Ingush: Ghala ("fortress" or "town") and ghai ("inhabitants" or "citizens"). According to the linguist Johanna Nichols, the Ingush speak the Ingush language, which is different from Chechen but is placed into the same language group due to Ingush people passive bilingualism. The Ingush are traditionally a classless society based on a clan system and unwritten law (approximately 350 clans live in Ingushetia today). Every clan, and each clan member, are viewed as equal. Unlike the neighboring nations in the Caucasus (including Chechens), the Ingush never had social superiors or inferiors. | ” |
I'm pretty sure that sources can be found for most of the information here, but it's the responsibility of the editor who adds back challenged information. At least, you could have restored it with the {{cn}} tag. Please also be aware of the WP:3RR rule. Alaexis ¿question? 18:27, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Its is somewhere near 300,000. Please see last census the Ingush population of Ingushetia contributes only 77%. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 02:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
1. The link you have provided doesn't have any reference whatsoever to Rosen's reason for extermination of highlanders in Ingushetia. "1832 г. август - Генерал Розен уничтожил 80 аулов Большой Чечни, принудил их выдать аманатов. 10-тысячный отряд Розена уничтожил аулы по берегам рек Мартан, Гойты, Аргун, Басс." 2. The author claims that 6 Ingush lowland clans signed the agreement. How about the rest of 300 clans who didn't sign the agreement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 00:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
The “historical map” is a clear forgery. In 1921 a second e in a word was b crossed at the top in the Russian language prior to 1930’s. Also no references provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Section edited (it appears somebody just cut and pasted it into the climate section from Ingush section of wiki), and the religion part was cut because it was already present in Religion section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 12:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Hello. The information about tripling the troops is taken from Yahoo News. IT IS NEWS NOT HISTORY. It is irrelevant in Military History of Ingushetia. The information already present in Modern Ingush History section. Ingushetia 06:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)Ingushetia
That the neighbors "know" the Ingush to be cruel brigands is not fair language. Perhaps there is a "reputation" for being strong opponents when crossed. ~ RD
"Two Tanks destroyed with one rocket propelled grenade" - seems a little far fetched am prepared to stand corrected if you can point another firm example or even explain how it could be done, but i get the point they can pretty mean. excellent article about a war hidden from view
"uncontrolled Ingush Informal Armed Groups (IAG) from Nazran started the aggressive[citation needed] assault upon North Ossetian territory."- this is absurdity.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.6.38.132 ( talk • contribs) . ...which is exactly why a citation has been requested. There is no need to request citation for each word, by the way—one note is sufficient when a whole sentence is under doubt.— Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 20:25, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
“ | It seems that he wanted to liberate the land for Ossetians and Cossaks | ” |
Johanna Nichols' paper is used to reference this sentence. I haven't found such words there though. Is it a mistake or have I missed something? Alæxis ¿question? 07:46, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It's quite understandable. Try search button on the web browser. One example: "All Russian governments -- czars, Soviets, post-Soviet Russia -- have used various means to remove Chechen and Ingush population from economically important areas and to encourage settlement there by Russians and Russian Cossacks; hence the mixed population of the cities and lowlands." keep reading you will see more on the Berkley website. Ingushetia
P.S. Anyway Alexis I am going to provide sources for every mark "citation needed". Its just ridiculous that you put the marks almost after every word in the article. Ingushetia ( talk) 17:47, 18 January 2008 (UTC) P.P.S. Read further "Ingush homes and lands were given to Ossetians" Don't worry I will provide more sources just like with the village of Zaur. Thanks.
“ | The same year Russian Tsar offered help in deportation of Ingushes and Chechens to Turkey and the Middle East by claiming that "Muslims need to live under Muslim rulers". It seems that he wanted to liberate the land for Ossetians and Cossaks[14]. | ” |
What is this word supposed to mean here? Does it characterise Islam as a whole or the particular variety of it brought to Ingushetia? In the first case it should be removed as this article is not about Islam and its characteristics and in the second case it needs a reference. Alæxis ¿question? 17:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Btw I've re-created the article about www. ingushetiya.ru that got deleted and added facts proving its notability. Alæxis ¿question? 19:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
The article needs to be seriously updated. The situation in the republic is precarious and the violence of 2007 has continued into 2008. Today, the Russian police fired into the opposition protesters in Nazran. [1] -- Kober Talk 12:46, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Come on, now. Who listed "Death Squads" under the heading of Natural Resources? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Judyjetson (
talk •
contribs)
17:05, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
-- Attack of the trolls ... again
Ingushetia (
talk) Ingushetia
Dagestan contains over 40 nationalities/languages. Some of them are NOT related to each other. The Dagestani are NOT ancestors to the Ingush, Chechen, Bats, Kistin languages; the four languages belong to the NAKH language family. Ingushetia ( talk) Ingushetia
Science 19 May 2000: Vol. 288. no. 5469, p. 1158 DOI: 10.1126/science.288.5469.1158: "LINGUISTICS: Peering Into the Past, With Words Bernice Wuethrich Prehistorians typically rely on stones, bones, and DNA to piece together the past, but linguists argue that words preserve history too. Two new studies, both based on endangered languages, offer new insights into the identity of mysterious ancient peoples, from the first farmers to early inhabitants of the British Isles. Archaeologists have long known that some 10,000 years ago, ancient people in Mesopotamia discovered farming, raising sheep, cattle, wheat, and barley. And researchers knew that by 8000 years ago agriculture had spread north to the Caucasus Mountains. But they had little inkling of whether traces of this first farming culture lived on in any particular culture today. People have migrated extensively through the region over the millennia, and there's no continuous archaeological record of any single culture. Linguistically, most languages in the region and in the Fertile Crescent itself are relatively recent arrivals from elsewhere. Now, however, linguist Johanna Nichols of the University of California, Berkeley, has used language to connect modern people of the Caucasus region to the ancient farmers of the Fertile Crescent. She analyzed the Nakh-Daghestanian linguistic family, which today includes Chechen, Ingush, and Batsbi on the Nakh side and some 24 languages on the Daghestanian side; all are spoken in parts of Russia (such as Chechnya), Georgia, and Azerbaijan. Languages heard near the Caspian Sea today trace their ancestry back to the first farmers of the Fertile Crescent. Nichols had previously established the family tree of Nakh-Daghestanian by analyzing similarities in the related languages much the way biologists create a phylogeny of species. She found that three languages converge at the very base of the tree. Today, speakers of all three live side by side in the southeastern foothills of the Caucasus Mountains, suggesting that this was the homeland of the ancestral language--on the very fringes of the Fertile Crescent. To get a rough estimate of when the language arose, Nichols used a linguistic method that assumes a semiregular rate of vocabulary loss per 1000 years, and she dated the ancestral language to about 8000 years ago. Nichols also found that the ancestral language contains a host of words for farming. The Chechen words muq (barley), stu (bull), and tkha (wool), for example, all have closely related forms in the earliest branches of Daghestanian, as do words for pear, apple, dairy product, and oxen yoke--all elements of the farming package developed in the Fertile Crescent. Thus location, time, and vocabulary all suggest that the farmers of the region were proto-Nakh-Daghestanians. "The Nakh-Daghestanian languages are the closest thing we have to a direct continuation of the cultural and linguistic community that gave rise to Western civilization," Nichols says. Population geneticist Henry Harpending of the University of Utah, Salt Lake City, has just begun the job of unraveling the genetic ancestry of Daghestanian speakers and is impressed with Nichols's work. "For years I wished linguists would get in the game. Nichols sure is." Nichols is now reconstructing the ancestral language, hoping for more clues to the culture of these early farmers. But she has to work fast, for the three Nakh languages are vanishing. Although there are still about 900,000 Chechen speakers left, the other two tongues have fewer speakers, and all three are being eroded by war, economic chaos, and Russian educational practices, Nichols says." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.19.215 ( talk) 11:33, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Please see it for yourself. Dagestan: Avars from Avar Kaganate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Khazar0.png Kumyks Turkish-speaking: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumyks .... etc. look into their history. I know better than you who belong where in the Caucasus. Proto- means Pre-. So it is written Pre-Ingush people. That means ancestors of Ingush people. Kapish? Speaking about Sino-Caucasian you are right. It is just a "sick" imagination of some professors from Russia http://starling.rinet.ru/Texts/scc.pdf But you are right you have a Ph.D. in "experienced editor". Ingushetia ( talk) Ingushetia.
Reverting without any comments (not to say about using the talkpage) isn't very polite. The first issue is the fact tag, why has it been removed without adding any sources instead?
The second issue is Stalin's ethnicity. There are two aspects of this problem - his ethnicity per se and whether it has to do anything with his orders to deport Ingush and Chechen people. As far as I know it's far from certain that Stalin's father was an Ossetian - it's just a hypothesis. So Stalin is maybe half-Ossetian by blood, but he certainly didn't consider himself as such.
And unless there are reliable sources linking his ethnicity and his policies towards Ingush and Chechen people his ethnicity shouldn't be mentioned here at all.
ps. And of course Mandelshtam's poem can't be used as a reference. Alæxis ¿question? 06:59, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
Так будет речка смерти: верно, Дано старинными людьми». «А сколько их дралось примерно Сегодня?» — «Тысяч до семи». «А много горцы потеряли?» «Как знать? — зачем вы не считали!» «Да! будет, - кто-то тут сказал, - Им в память этот день кровавый!» Чеченец посмотрел лукаво И головою покачал.” Was Lermontov wrong? No! He is damn right. So, why do you question Mandelshtam? Because he had balls to call something which others were afraid to call??? “Baksan claims that Stalin was a Mountain Jew! Besides the book itself is rather notorious.” I’ve done some search on the web about Deni Baksan. It appears he is a well known scientist and writer from Chechnya. “Deni Baksan - an outstanding scientist and writer, the author of many well-known works about the exciting problems of our time.” I’ve read some sections of the book. One fact I didn’t know that Ossetians were celebrating and dancing when Chechens and Ingush were deported in 1944. I will add it to the Ingushetia section. Thanks for you help. Well now considering the books written by Deni Baksan and by Beniamin Kaplan "Ossetians - Iranian Jews" [2] which was published in Vladikavkaz, North Ossetia; I understand why Russians jumped into Georgia and recognized independence of Ossetia. The thing I don’t understand: why did Stalin kill Jews like Mandelshtem??? I have only theories. Do you know anything Alex?Ingushetia 15:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)Ingushetia
“ | В статье проанализированы основные положения современного чеченского национального мифа (автор — Дени Баксан), который фактически является профашистской мифологизированной идеологией. Эта идеология апеллирует к «арийской» теории расовой борьбы Гитлера и ультрарадикальному исламизму, а также содержит национально-религиозную нетерпимость, в частности, антиеврейскую и антииудейскую позиции в качестве одного из ключевых составных элементов. | ” |
“ | In this article main theses of modern Chechen national mythology (author - Deni Baksan) are analysed. This national myth is really a pro-fascist ideology that makes references to Hitler's theory of racial struggle and radical Islam(ism). Intolerance (for example towards Jews) is one of the key elements of this ideology | ” |
(my translation)
Is Stalin's ethnicity relevant to the history of Ingushetia and if yes, how should it be mentioned (see Talk:Ingushetia#recent_edits for the sources and the discussion).
Stalin's alleged Ossetian ethnicity is irrelevant here. For one thing, the idea he had Ossetian roots is mere speculation. More importantly, the implication that he was anti-Ingush because he was an Ossetian and this is the reason why he deported them en masse is a fringe theory, if not complete original research (Stalin also deported the Crimean Tatars and Kalmyks, for example - neither of those peoples have strong historical connections to the Ossetians). Wikipedia policy specifically warns about making such insinuations by stringing two unrelated facts or theories together (it's called synthesis): "Synthesis occurs when an editor puts together multiple sources to reach a novel conclusion that is not in any of the sources. Even if published by reliable sources, material must not be connected together in such a way that it constitutes original research. If the sources cited do not explicitly reach the same conclusion, or if the sources cited are not directly related to the article subject, then the editor is engaged in original research." At least one editor seems to be using this article as a soapbox to refight the Ossetian–Ingush conflict of the early 1990s and there is a strongly anti-Ossetian flavour to the page which is inconsistent with our requirements for neutrality. -- Folantin ( talk) 10:32, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
I'm tempted to block you without a warning. You know better. Take it to Talk. kwami ( talk) 19:50, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
Has anyone investigated whether or not this place is real? I think this may be a hoax - some hints that it is fake are that it has way too many vowels in the name for a soviet republic, it sounds vaguely reminiscent of the anime cartoon Inuyasha and many of the edits have been made by a small set of users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.64.97.67 ( talk) 19:07, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
First paragraph text says "...established in 1991" while sidebar says June 1992. Can anyone confirm and correct article to rid the contradiction, please? Also I agree the current map is near worthless, without labeling surrounding areas. What are the zones anyway? 168.166.196.40 ( talk) 13:52, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Here's what is written in the article:
“ | Ingush are known by the following names: Ghalghai, Gelgai, Kist, Koost, Amazons, Gergar, Narts, Gegar, Dzoordzook, Glivi, Ongusht, Alans, Galash, Tsori, Jairakh, Khamhoi, Metshal, Fyappi, and Nyasareth. | ” |
Here's what is written in the source, on the other hand:
“ | В древних исторических хрониках ингушские племена значатся под различными именами “гаргареи”, “дзурдзуки”, “глигвы”, “кусты” или “кисты”, “колканцы” и “галгаи”. | ” |
“ | В X - XIII веках на территории Центрального Кавказа уже известно Аланское государственное образование (согласно утверждениям академика П.С. Палласа ингушские племена “кисты” являются прямыми потомками алан) | ” |
So, first, it's not clear where did half of the names in the article come from. Second, even this article (located at ingushetia.org and written by Ingush historian) doesn't say that Ingush are the descendants of Alans. It's just written that according to a certain historian it is so. As far as I know it's a rather non-orthodox theory so Alans shouldn't be in this list. Alæxis ¿question? 16:40, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Republic of Adygea which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RM bot 11:00, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I have removed the following text to this page, as it appears to be a misreading of the original Russian, or results from a poor Google translation:-
The citation quoted was at Respublika Ingushetiya Oficial'nyy Sayt
The original text seems to suggest that Venezuela will encourage some of its municipalities and states to twin with either Ingushetia or with Ingushetian regions and municipalities; not that Venezuela is doing so. There is, of course, no such place as Venezuela region in Venezuela. Can anyone with a good knowledge of Russian and English shed any further light on this? Skinsmoke ( talk) 03:03, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
the death rate is 3.8 per thousands? thats just impossible! birth rate of Ingushetia has been falling since 2000, I believe this table is manipulated by someone please either correct it or remove it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.73.78.62 ( talk) 03:21, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
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. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.32.125.140 ( talk) 09:20, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
See WP:RSN#Are these reliable sources for the origins of an ethnic population?. Dougweller ( talk) 14:06, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
This is currently included in the Civil disorders subsection of the History section.
“ |
|
” |
The first passage is about civil disorder in Ukraine, not Ingushetia and its only connection with Ingushetia is the figure of Magomed Khazbiev. This article cannot contain every action by any relatively known Ingush.
In any case the words "and participates in anti-Russian campaign there" are not found in the source and so fall under both WP:OR and WP:POV.
The second passage has nothing at all to do with Ingushetia, it is just about some North Caucasian instructors, so it should be in the Insurgency in the North Caucasus article (not speaking for now about the credibility of the source). Alæxis ¿question? 12:24, 22 April 2014 (UTC)
References
I have to agree with Kaldari in “ #Needs a better map”, above: The map File:Ingushetia in Russia.svg, when reduced to infobox size, makes the location of Ingushetia almost undetectable — and I mean that literally, as Ingushetia is reduced to only a few pink pixels. If I didn't already know where to look on the map, I don't think I could have found Ingushetia at all.
May I suggest that someone experienced with Wikipedia maps either add some more-visible highlighting (a circle, an arrow, or the like), or perhaps save a composite image showing multiple scales?
Some examples of multiple-scale maps, by editors Klodde and TUBS, are:
Would something similar be useful here?
Unician ∇ 12:35, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
This article needs a better map image. The one in the infobox is pretty useless at thumbnail size. Kaldari ( talk) 17:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
unreliable sources!!!!!!!!!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edmundo Vargas ( talk • contribs) 11:49, 5 January 2015 (UTC)
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The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ingushetia/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
The Economy section could be expanded to include data on domestic and foreign trade, types of investment, GNP and GDP. The Geography section's Natural Resources area could be expanded to explain natural resource production, extraction, annual volumes of output, market delivery, etc. A culture section could be added (esp. for language usage). And the Religion section could be expanded to convey the various Religions' population percentages and their relationships with Ingushetia's society and it's politics. robertjohnsonrj 02:45, 11 December 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:58, 30 September 2011 (UTC). Substituted at 18:56, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
I believe that the section name "Independent State" is misleading as Ingushetia was only a part of the Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus. It is the same as saying that California is independent as a part of US. Also I haven't seen sources that use this word with regards to Ingushetia of that time. Therefore I propose to change the name to "Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus". Alæxis ¿question? 07:48, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
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This is an outstandingly level-headed report, preserving NPOV on a tense subject. Wetman 05:50, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Does Ingushetia really border Kabardino-Balkaria and Stavropol Krai? It doesn't look like it does on the maps that I have seen. Nicke Lilltroll
The russophobic language and veiled, not so thinly, but veiled weasel words against "Russia" which doesn't mean anything if you think about it, there's the Russian people, which is above all the ethnicity of anyone living in a Federal Republic or Oblast and such inside the Russian Federation. Chechen people are Russian for example. There's a serious veiled POV issue here (and in other southern Russia Caucasus Republics/territory) DeadZombieSwitch ( talk) 20:46, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
Hello @ Kavkas:. Please do not resort to WP:PERSONAL attacks like insinuating I have some "communist agenda" [ [6]]. I don't. There are many issues with this map as has been explained numerous times:
There are further issues but for the sake of not creating a wall of text I will stop here. Please explain why despite these issues, the image must remain on the page, if you want to re-add it. Thanks. --
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Hey commie leave your phone number I need to talk to you
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 14:56, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
The map depicting the migration of the Ingush from the Fertile Crescent to the Caucasus is not backed by a reliable source. The caption mentions the article Peering Into the Past, With Words by Bernice Wuethrich in Science. While the Science is a reliable source by itself the said article is not a study of Ingush people. Bernice Wuetrich herself is also not a historian but rather a scientific communications expert and freelance science writer. Needless to say the claim about something that happened with the ancestors of the Ingush 12 thousand years ago is exceptional and we requires high-quality data sources to include it in the article. Alaexis ¿question? 16:00, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
Wuetrich's article says:
“ | Archaeologists have long known that some 10,000 years ago, ancient people in Mesopotamia discovered farming, raising sheep, cattle, wheat, and barley. And researchers knew that by 8000 years ago agriculture had spread north to the Caucasian mountains | ” |
So the discovery of agriculture happened before the migration, and not after it, as implied by the current version of the pre-history section. We could say something like that.
“ | According to Johanna Nichols, linguistic evidence indicates that the ancestors of Nakh migrated to the slopes of the Caucasus from the Fertile Crescent bringing farming and raising sheep and cattle. | ” |
Alaexis ¿question? 15:20, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
The map caption seems to be WP:OR
“ | Top right corner, Ingushetia is labeled as Gelia, with Ingush cities: Nasra (Nazran), and Wladikaukas (Vladikavkaz) with Daryal Pass running on the west side of Gelia. | ” |
The map does not say anywhere that Gelia refers to Ingushetia and does not characterise these cities as Ingush. It's not self-evident because it covers both Ingush and Chechen lands (for example Grosnaja). Unless there are reliable sources for these claims, this part of the caption needs to be removed. Alaexis ¿question? 15:25, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
Kavkas, you keep reverting numerous copyedit improvements that UrielAcosta has made, such as removing editorialising ("It is noteworthy, that according..."), using Arabic numerals for centuries, etc. If you are restoring something, please respect the work of other editors.
Also, while you say that you are restring sourced information, there are no sources for large parts of it, e.g.
“ | The history of the Ingush is closely related to Chechens. Byzantine and Georgian missionaries partially Christianised the Ingush, although Christianity was weakened by the Mongol invasions. The remains of several churches, notably the Tkhabya-Yerd and the Albe-Yerd can be found in Ingushetia. The Ingush gradually converted to Islam troughout the 18th-19th century. Vakhushti of Kartli wrote in 1745, that the inhabitants of the village Angushti were Sunni Muslims. | ” |
“ | The Ingush, a nationality group indigenous to the Caucasus, mostly inhabit Ingushetia. They refer to themselves as Ghalghai (from Ingush: Ghala ("fortress" or "town") and ghai ("inhabitants" or "citizens"). According to the linguist Johanna Nichols, the Ingush speak the Ingush language, which is different from Chechen but is placed into the same language group due to Ingush people passive bilingualism. The Ingush are traditionally a classless society based on a clan system and unwritten law (approximately 350 clans live in Ingushetia today). Every clan, and each clan member, are viewed as equal. Unlike the neighboring nations in the Caucasus (including Chechens), the Ingush never had social superiors or inferiors. | ” |
I'm pretty sure that sources can be found for most of the information here, but it's the responsibility of the editor who adds back challenged information. At least, you could have restored it with the {{cn}} tag. Please also be aware of the WP:3RR rule. Alaexis ¿question? 18:27, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Its is somewhere near 300,000. Please see last census the Ingush population of Ingushetia contributes only 77%. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 02:27, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
1. The link you have provided doesn't have any reference whatsoever to Rosen's reason for extermination of highlanders in Ingushetia. "1832 г. август - Генерал Розен уничтожил 80 аулов Большой Чечни, принудил их выдать аманатов. 10-тысячный отряд Розена уничтожил аулы по берегам рек Мартан, Гойты, Аргун, Басс." 2. The author claims that 6 Ingush lowland clans signed the agreement. How about the rest of 300 clans who didn't sign the agreement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 00:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
The “historical map” is a clear forgery. In 1921 a second e in a word was b crossed at the top in the Russian language prior to 1930’s. Also no references provided. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 03:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Section edited (it appears somebody just cut and pasted it into the climate section from Ingush section of wiki), and the religion part was cut because it was already present in Religion section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingushetia ( talk • contribs) 12:13, 4 October 2008 (UTC)