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This article seems to get into details that are way beyond what should be in an encyclopedia. The information here should tell people what the product does and where it comes from, it shouldn't contain details instructions on how to install software patches. Mhkay ( talk) 19:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
After returning to Berkeley, Stonebraker started a post-Ingres project to address the problems with the relational database model that had become increasing clear during the early 1980s. Primary among these was the relational model's inability to understand "types", combination of simpler data that make up a single unit. Today we typically refer to these as objects.
"...the problems with the relational database model" - I do not believe this was the case, there was no problem other than ignorance of the fundamentals.
"Primary among these was the relational model's inability to understand "types"..." - complete rubbish, should be removed.
Replace with this para:
== Postgres == After returning to Berkeley, Stonebraker started a post-Ingres project to address limitations of existing database management implementations.
I never heard the term 'fat cursor' that is referenced here - a google search for "fat cursor" postgres or "fat cursors" postgres only returns hits on the wikipedia, and other wikis...
Perhaps the term isn't correct after all?
194.114.62.71 (
talk)
I think that University Ingres, Ingres (Computer Associates) and Postgres should have separate articles. 132.205.45.110 18:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
"Ingres" the artist is the article that should be displayed when "Ingres" is entered in for a search. Instead, a company named "Ingres" appears. The artists is more famous and more important and should be what appears first with a link to the company instead of the other way around. Ingres the artist painted one of the most famous paintings of Napoleon, a bunch of other famous paintings in the Louvre (itself) and taught at important art schools (he was even head of the art school in Rome). He influenced famous/important artists like Edgar Degas, Robert Henri, John Singer Sargent and hundreds others. Besides, "Ingres" the company is probably named after him, although I don't know that for sure. There is even "Ingres" paper (it has been around since the time of Ingres, used by and discussed by various famous/important artists such as in the letters of Degas) which is probably more famous than the company.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinjuicebox ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 4 July 2007
The obvious solution is to make Ingres into a disambiguation page with links to the artist and the database, and for the database article to be renamed "Ingres (database)" or "Ingres Corporation" or something similar. Tevildo 18:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Ingres not a "database"; it is a database management system, which is normally shortened to the acronym DBMS. A database is entirely different from a DBMS. Just as one would not refer to a file system as a "file", one should not refer to a DBMS as a database.
This issue is somewhat clouded by the fact that Ingres Coporation has recently officially designated its product by the name Ingres Database 9.2. In my view this simply perpetuates an ill-informed misnomer and it should not be encouraged here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.133.118.245 ( talk) 15:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
@ Kvng: I can't follow your justification for this edit. You've removed a merge template from one page, with "merged to Actian instead", but that merge doesn't seem to have taken place. I see the 'half-baked' redirect from Rhadow which you very reasonably reversed, but that does leave a merge uncompleted and no argument for the alternative target. Any thoughts on the current status? Worth re-instating the initial merge template (which is still up on Applications-By-Forms but not here)? Klbrain ( talk) 11:22, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
I know a fair amount about the deep history of computer science, but databases are one of my larger blind spots. Nevertheless, it's rather easy to see than Ingres is bigger than Actian, and that the lead must cover this history, too.
New lead material:
In its early years, Ingres was an important milestone in the history of database development. Ingres began as a research project at UC Berkeley, starting in the early 1970s and ending in 1985. [1] During this time Ingres remained largely similar to IBM's seminal System R in concept; it differed in more permissive licensing of source code, in being based largely on DEC machines, both under UNIX [2] and VAX/VMS, [3] and in providing QUEL as a query language instead of SQL. QUEL was considered at the time to run truer to Edgar F. Codd's relational algebra (especially concerning composibility), but SQL was easier to parse and less intimidating for those without a formal background in mathematics. [4]
When ANSI preferred SQL over QUEL as a standard as part of the 1986 SQL standard (SQL-86), Ingres became less competitive against rival products such as Oracle until future Ingres versions also provided SQL. [5] Many companies spun off of the original Ingres technology, including Actian itself, originally known as Relational Technology Inc., and the NonStop SQL database originally developed by Tandem Computers but now offered by Hewlett Packard Enterprise.
References
The INGRIS reference manual is subdivided into four parts: Quel describes the commands and features which are used inside of INGRES. Unix describes the ...
For VAX-lls Running Unix, Relational Technology Offers Updated DBMS BERKELEY, Calif. — Relational Technology, Inc. (RTI) has announced the Ingres VAX ...
I've added two references, neither ideal, but both mitigated by having their own solid internal citation structure (one via quotes, one via reference notes). Unfortunately, I don't have direct access to the literature, and so I must defer to someone else to resolve these references down to their internal sub-references. Some of what I gleaned from those sources parallels material already present here, insufficiently cited (so you can view my blogish citations either as glass half full, or glass half empty, as you wish).
I know for myself that the expanded lead text provides exactly the kind of historical gestalt that makes a subject intelligible on a quick glance. Short version: Ingres got Betamaxed by IBM and Larry Ellison.
As I usually sign off after larger additions, I'm a tumbleweed editor contributing on the way by. I rarely return. Revise or revert at will.
One last remark: I don't know much about databases, but I do know enough to use Postgres almost exclusively to host my own applications, given the option. Good god how I love software that doesn't fall over at the first mild gust of adversity. — MaxEnt 00:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
The pronunciation given ( /ɪŋˈɡrɛs/ ing-GRESS) seems unlikely - I would expect it to be /ˈɪŋɡrɛs/ ING-gress with emphasis on the first syllable. John Womble ( talk) 16:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
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This article seems to get into details that are way beyond what should be in an encyclopedia. The information here should tell people what the product does and where it comes from, it shouldn't contain details instructions on how to install software patches. Mhkay ( talk) 19:46, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
After returning to Berkeley, Stonebraker started a post-Ingres project to address the problems with the relational database model that had become increasing clear during the early 1980s. Primary among these was the relational model's inability to understand "types", combination of simpler data that make up a single unit. Today we typically refer to these as objects.
"...the problems with the relational database model" - I do not believe this was the case, there was no problem other than ignorance of the fundamentals.
"Primary among these was the relational model's inability to understand "types"..." - complete rubbish, should be removed.
Replace with this para:
== Postgres == After returning to Berkeley, Stonebraker started a post-Ingres project to address limitations of existing database management implementations.
I never heard the term 'fat cursor' that is referenced here - a google search for "fat cursor" postgres or "fat cursors" postgres only returns hits on the wikipedia, and other wikis...
Perhaps the term isn't correct after all?
194.114.62.71 (
talk)
I think that University Ingres, Ingres (Computer Associates) and Postgres should have separate articles. 132.205.45.110 18:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
"Ingres" the artist is the article that should be displayed when "Ingres" is entered in for a search. Instead, a company named "Ingres" appears. The artists is more famous and more important and should be what appears first with a link to the company instead of the other way around. Ingres the artist painted one of the most famous paintings of Napoleon, a bunch of other famous paintings in the Louvre (itself) and taught at important art schools (he was even head of the art school in Rome). He influenced famous/important artists like Edgar Degas, Robert Henri, John Singer Sargent and hundreds others. Besides, "Ingres" the company is probably named after him, although I don't know that for sure. There is even "Ingres" paper (it has been around since the time of Ingres, used by and discussed by various famous/important artists such as in the letters of Degas) which is probably more famous than the company.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Justinjuicebox ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 4 July 2007
The obvious solution is to make Ingres into a disambiguation page with links to the artist and the database, and for the database article to be renamed "Ingres (database)" or "Ingres Corporation" or something similar. Tevildo 18:47, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Ingres not a "database"; it is a database management system, which is normally shortened to the acronym DBMS. A database is entirely different from a DBMS. Just as one would not refer to a file system as a "file", one should not refer to a DBMS as a database.
This issue is somewhat clouded by the fact that Ingres Coporation has recently officially designated its product by the name Ingres Database 9.2. In my view this simply perpetuates an ill-informed misnomer and it should not be encouraged here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.133.118.245 ( talk) 15:06, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
@ Kvng: I can't follow your justification for this edit. You've removed a merge template from one page, with "merged to Actian instead", but that merge doesn't seem to have taken place. I see the 'half-baked' redirect from Rhadow which you very reasonably reversed, but that does leave a merge uncompleted and no argument for the alternative target. Any thoughts on the current status? Worth re-instating the initial merge template (which is still up on Applications-By-Forms but not here)? Klbrain ( talk) 11:22, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
I know a fair amount about the deep history of computer science, but databases are one of my larger blind spots. Nevertheless, it's rather easy to see than Ingres is bigger than Actian, and that the lead must cover this history, too.
New lead material:
In its early years, Ingres was an important milestone in the history of database development. Ingres began as a research project at UC Berkeley, starting in the early 1970s and ending in 1985. [1] During this time Ingres remained largely similar to IBM's seminal System R in concept; it differed in more permissive licensing of source code, in being based largely on DEC machines, both under UNIX [2] and VAX/VMS, [3] and in providing QUEL as a query language instead of SQL. QUEL was considered at the time to run truer to Edgar F. Codd's relational algebra (especially concerning composibility), but SQL was easier to parse and less intimidating for those without a formal background in mathematics. [4]
When ANSI preferred SQL over QUEL as a standard as part of the 1986 SQL standard (SQL-86), Ingres became less competitive against rival products such as Oracle until future Ingres versions also provided SQL. [5] Many companies spun off of the original Ingres technology, including Actian itself, originally known as Relational Technology Inc., and the NonStop SQL database originally developed by Tandem Computers but now offered by Hewlett Packard Enterprise.
References
The INGRIS reference manual is subdivided into four parts: Quel describes the commands and features which are used inside of INGRES. Unix describes the ...
For VAX-lls Running Unix, Relational Technology Offers Updated DBMS BERKELEY, Calif. — Relational Technology, Inc. (RTI) has announced the Ingres VAX ...
I've added two references, neither ideal, but both mitigated by having their own solid internal citation structure (one via quotes, one via reference notes). Unfortunately, I don't have direct access to the literature, and so I must defer to someone else to resolve these references down to their internal sub-references. Some of what I gleaned from those sources parallels material already present here, insufficiently cited (so you can view my blogish citations either as glass half full, or glass half empty, as you wish).
I know for myself that the expanded lead text provides exactly the kind of historical gestalt that makes a subject intelligible on a quick glance. Short version: Ingres got Betamaxed by IBM and Larry Ellison.
As I usually sign off after larger additions, I'm a tumbleweed editor contributing on the way by. I rarely return. Revise or revert at will.
One last remark: I don't know much about databases, but I do know enough to use Postgres almost exclusively to host my own applications, given the option. Good god how I love software that doesn't fall over at the first mild gust of adversity. — MaxEnt 00:07, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
The pronunciation given ( /ɪŋˈɡrɛs/ ing-GRESS) seems unlikely - I would expect it to be /ˈɪŋɡrɛs/ ING-gress with emphasis on the first syllable. John Womble ( talk) 16:25, 28 July 2023 (UTC)