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The fact that this goddamned article even exists here is yet more evidence of the inestimable gullibility and damnability of the human race. That this meshuggah bit of idiocy is even given the nicey-nice Wiki-NPOV respect shown in the article is a blot on whatever intellectual capabilities humans supposedly have. Shame on all of you! Yet another demonstration that we're fucking doomed.
Oh, and have a nice day. == ILike2BeAnonymous 19:23, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I'm Comodor W. Falkon, founder of Arcane Sanctum... I, and my friends - we are fighting against "man" called Breatharian //alias MoneySlave // and his theories for long time... And, I'm afraid, we aren't as succesfull, as we want to be... For now, he is warned, that another open propagation of Anorexia or Bulimia - his favourite ilnesis will proceed into bann - but only on our server - www.lide.cz , but we know, that he have some clubs on www.Quick.cz and Yahoo!
( removed unsourced contentious material per policy)... (Against all our tryes)
Btw: We - fighters against him - are grouped into "church" of Deatharians ( Breatharians : people who don't eat // Deatharians people who don't breath )
I try to estabilish a Wiki-page on Wiki/Deatharians - but I'm censored... So, I'f I win, I be pleased if someone will come and discuss with us against our deadly enemies...
These links don't work any more and so were moved from the main page to here...
-- Nairobiny
We are living in a world where a few control the many, of course something as dubious as living without a middleman would seem odd. You can't make narrow minded profit off of people that are free. As soon as the current dictators of reality decide it is more profitable to support life on planet earth than to self destruct is when this will be looked out with an open mind. Inedia is nothing new. It has been going on since the beginning of time. But this all is based on when you consider time began... which is again based on fascist history and fear . We have alot to learn... Please don't use the term "common sense" in the inedia definition.. Since "common sense" is incredibly relative. We would all benefit from grown ups making the call here. People that have already shut themselves off from "what is" need not apply. Reality is not a closed circle. All insecure maniacs that benefit of exploiting others for "survival", open your eyes. We have a lot to learn yet! We are just beginning! We are still in nursery school as a society! There is nothing new age about it. Take Pills 01:37, November 18, 2005 (UTC)
The Wiley Brooks sentence looks dubious to me and contradicts Wiley Brooks. Deleting it for now. — Adam Conover † 03:30, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
The first sentence seems to imply that such people exist, I'm going to add a sentence after it clarifying that there have been no recorded cases to date. Maprovonsha172 01:23, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I know you want to give these New Agers the benifit of the doubt and everything, but there just haven't been any verified cases of this occurrence to date. Of course there haven't. Consider this simple syllogism:
P1. All animals require food.
P2. Humans are animals.
C. Humans require food.
That's obvious. Breatharianism is not only bullshit, it is dangerous bullshit. People have been hurt, and some have died, and it would be irresponsible of us to present it any different. Maprovonsha172 19:21, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the statement "There is no accepted scientific evidence for any of the claims put forward by the breatharians." :
—from BBC story: Fasting fakir flummoxes physicians
This man spent 10 days under constant observation by physicians–far beyond the 3-4 days it is said the usual person can go without water. Is this not scientific evidence? Dforest 08:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I changed the sentence to say 'proof' instead of 'evidence' and added info from the article you sited to the paragraph. Lachatdelarue (talk) 14:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Like the article says, it's merely a medical mystery. I'm sure ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy), like so many other New Age claims of evidence, as ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy). In any event, it is irrelevant to this article, because the man doesn't claim to be a breatharian. He doesn't say he is sustained by prana, he claims a goddess sustains him through a hole in his palate. Think of Hume's maxim regarding miracles, which would be more miraculous, that he is telling the truth or that he isn't? We can usually expect the least miraculous possibility to turn out true. Since it is irrelevant to this article, I don't see the subsequent changes as justified and I will change them back. Maprovonsha172 16:37, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
I removed 'of course' from the last sentence of the first paragraph, again, because it makes it NPOV. The use of the phrase 'of course' suggests a pre-existing bias or expectation. Other people obviously agree with me. Lachatdelarue (talk) 13:39, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
x --> y
P1. All animals are consumers of food.
w --> x
P2. Humans are animals.
w --> y
C. Humans are consumers of food.
That's obvious. Breatharianism is not only bullshit, it is dangerous bullshit. People have been hurt, and some have died, and it would be irresponsible of us to present it any different.
Of course I'm going to replace "Of course." Maprovonsha172 00:51, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
If anyone wants to dispute whether "of course" should be used they should here do so, and in so doing, should explain just why what seems obvious to me apparently isn't universally held as obvious.
What I have presented above is a simple syllogism.
All X are Y
All W are X
Hence, all W are Y
Below I have put it even more simply:
P1. That all animals require food is obvious.
P2. That all humans are animals is obvious.
C. Ergo, that humans require food is obvious.
Considering the fact that humans require food is obvious, we wouldn't be wrong in saying that, "of course humans require food." Maprovonsha172 18:44, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
The NPOV tutorial says we shouldn't avoid objective facts. What above isn't an objective fact? Maprovonsha172 16:54, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
You have alot of orders. Here's one: read my post before you comment on them. You say "it" is not an objective fact, I asked "what about isn't an objective fact." So what above isn't an objective fact. Maprovonsha172 20:04, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
"Of course" is quite properly used when something obvious is being stated. There is nothing PoV about stating objective facts; stating objective facts is plainly placed in the tutorial under "what not to avoid."
x --> y
P1. All animals are consumers of food.
w --> x
P2. Humans are animals.
w --> y
C. Humans are consumers of food.
What I have presented above is a simple syllogism.
All X are Y
All W are X
Hence, all W are Y
Below I have put it even more simply:
P1. That all animals require food is obvious.
P2. That all humans are animals is obvious.
C. Ergo, that humans require food is obvious.
If anyone wants to dispute whether "of course" should be used they should here do so, and in so doing, explain just why what seems obvious to me apparently isn't universally held as obvious. Maprovonsha172 01:43, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm listening, and if you've read it I'm only waiting for you to respond to it. Maprovonsha172 18:37, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
The first person mentioned in the article doesn't claim to be a breatharian, so to call the next person "Another breatharian" is a false implication. I'm rewording it to clearly express the fact that the second one claims to be a breatharian, and the first one has not. Maprovonsha172 18:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to remove where it says that the Fakir is a breatharian, nowhere in the article did it say that he is a breatharian nor did he claim to be in the article. He claims a goddess supplies him sustainence, not the air. Then, of course, I'll have to remove from the other little anecdote "Another breatharian" since the first one isn't one. Maprovonsha172 18:01, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
(section added for readability's sake.) -- Dforest
Excuse me, but can anyone tell me what is POV about the current article? I honestly fail to see how this could possibly be POV... -- Pikhq 04:49:46, 2005-09-06 (UTC)
This version seems reasonable to me for the most part. I mainly have problems with statements like: (Note these are now removed.)
and
I still think this sentence is slightly problematic:
It depends on your definition of verified cases; no, it has not been proven that people can be sustained by prana, nor that they can go without food or water indefinitely. But the Jani case has shown a man on a total fast, without water, for 10 days under close scrutiny, with zero ill effects according to his doctors. The Hira Ratan Manek case has shown a man, also under close scrutiny, on a water fast without any supplementary nutrients, for 411 days. In his case there was a significant loss of weight, so it cannot be assumed he could continue his fast indefinitely. However, these cases are nevertheless remarkable--10 days is considerably beyond the time a normal person could go without water and remain in perfect health. 411 days is far beyond the time a normal person could go without food and survive. I also think the article focuses far too much on Jasmuheen, but that's not necessarily a POV issue, more a lack of content issue. Note it was Omegatron who tagged it POV. Omegatron, what do you think? -- Dforest 06:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
I presume NPOV doesn't mean we have to balance completely between human beings who claim they can live without food or drink but have not submitted to a proper "Big Brother"-house type test (due to obvious ethical reasons which occured in Jasmenine's "60 Minutes" test), and empirical evidence going back to the dawn of humanity? Kingal86 ( talk) 00:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I've added a lot of notable information, and removed the bit about Jani, because he never claimed to be a Breatharian. He doesn't even claim to go without food the same way Breatharians claim to. He is in no way a Breatharian, so it is irrelevant to the article. The same goes for other irrelevant mentions of non-pranic inedia.
Please, out of wikicourtesy, justify further edits below. Maprovonsha172 14:44, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
"However, there is absolutely no evidence that prana is anything more than an example of just how imaginative the irrational ancients were."
"A simple syllogism in favor of such common sense"
"Instead, she lived to lead others to their deaths."
Regarding the cost of Jasmuheen's house, you say "of course it's relevant". It is not a matter of course to include this even in biographical articles--which this is not. Note there is already an article on Jasmuheen. Plenty of new age gurus, self-appointed or otherwise, live in posh homes; I cannot see the relevance to an article on breatharianism. In the case of Bill Gates' home, for example, the relevance is obvious as his home is in the public eye; here it is out of place. If you disagree, the burden is on you to justify its relevance. Dforest 16:42, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
'"who once went to prison for misappropriating a pension fund" is not related to the issue"
Alot of that reverting was uncalled for. First of all, Jani doesn't claim to be a Breatharian, and actually claims to be something contrary to it. It even says in the wikipedia article as taken from the BBC article on him, "Jani doesn't claim to be a breatharian or to rely on prana but, rather, claims a goddess sustains him through nectar that filters down through a hole in his palate." There you have it. Not only does he not claim to be a Breatharian, he doesn't even claim that what he does is in any way related to "prana," which is what Jasmuheen claims to live on. Perhaps Jani should have his own article, but it is irrelevant here. I'm removing it.
As for my syllogism, I don't see how it is irrelevant or POV. It is commense sense, and common sense doesn't require rigorous logic. It's not POV to say that it is a matter of common sense, because common sense is often wrong. I'm restoring it. It logically follow, so if someone wants to elaborate on it he/she must put which premise (or both) is considered the false premise from which the conclusion that humans require food logically follows.
Also, I don't see how "However, there is absolutely no evidence that prana is anything more than an example of just how imaginative the irrational ancients were" is POV. It's not an opinion that there isn't any evidence when there isn't any, and it's not an opinion that the ancients in question were imaginative and irrational. I'm restoring it. Likewise, I don't see how "Instead, she lived to lead others to their deaths" is POV because she did. She said you don't have to eat, some people took her up on that and starved to death. She ended a four-day fast, saving her life, to live on to spread a message that lead people to their deaths. Also, I don't know why it was erased that Jasmuheen's defense was anecdotal (and failed to justify it on the talk page), which was indeed anecdotal. She said that 6,000 people around the world go without food, but she's the only one who actually agreed to go under testing and she got severely ill. There is no evidence that anyone can go a month without food, and we need look no further for proof than Jasmuheen's disastrous attempt to do so (not to mention her dead followers).
Also, I'm removing some of the irrelvant links. Jani doesn't claim to be a Breatharian, or that his alleged powers are even pranic in nature (the essential characteristic of Breatharianism is a belief that prana nourishes). The same goes for Hira Ratan Manek, and Dr. Michael Werner. These are all irrelevant to a page about Breatharianism. Maprovonsha172 21:43, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Maprovonsha172 23:05, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have any specific complaints justifying the POV-tag? Maprovonsha172 01:19, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
No it's not. You may want to say it's just my opinion that someone is irrational, because it carries such a negative connotation, but some things are irrational just as some things are rational. Believing in something for no reason (with no proof) is irrational, and there is no reason to believe in prana. Any other examples? Maprovonsha172
You can say anything is an opinion. Anything contested can be called an opinion. Therefore it's an opinion that the earth is round. That's my personal opinion. Wikipedia is full of opinions. Our job is to sort out which opinion sare supported by the facts. I'm waiting for you to cite George Dennison Prentice for that last sentence of yours, but whether you will or meet matters little. The fact of the matter is I have consistently argued my points, and you have responded with mere assertians. There is a differnce between argument and contradiction. If you want to tell me to use proper arguments and not assertians, I will, and I hope you won't make yourself a hypocrite by not responding in kind (with an actual counter-argument).
The following explains it quite comprehensively: x --> y
P1. All animals are consumers of food.
w --> x
P2. Humans are animals.
w --> y
C. Humans are consumers of food.
What I have presented above is a simple syllogism.
All X are Y
All W are X
Hence, all W are Y
Below I have put it even more simply:
P1. That all animals require food is obvious.
P2. That all humans are animals is obvious.
C. Ergo, that humans require food is obvious.
If you want to counter-argue and not just respond with bare assertians, do so. I would think if you disagree with anything above you either believe that it doesn't follow, or that one of the premises are wrong. Point out your concerns. Use arguements, not assertians. As George Dennison Prentice said, "a bare assertian is not necessarily the naked truth." Maprovonsha172 15:34, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I've again removed the irrelevant cases of those who claim to go without food but don't claim to be Breatharians or even go without food thanks to "pranic energy" as all Breatharians do. Manek, Werner and Jani are not Breatharians in any way, and shouldn't be treated as such on this page. Maprovonsha172 15:45, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
In my defense regarding the minor edit thing, I tried a couple times to save and it kept saying the wikipedia was not responding, so I hit the minor edit button, and the save button, and it worked. As far as Jani is concerned, it says in the BBC article that he believes a goddess feeds him, prana isn't mentioned. Maprovonsha172 17:00, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
That doesn't necessarily follow. He can be a Hindu and know all about prana and still consider the elixor something different from prana. In fact he would have to, considering the fact that the elixor must be something physical, while prana isn't considered physical. Plus, he has claimed a goddess feeds him, having never mentioned prana on any record I've seen. And if prana fed you, an all pervading force, you wouldn't really need a goddess, would you? The problem here is seeing too much of a link between the oldest religion in the world (Hinduism) and the newest dogmatic thinking in the world (New Age Bullshit). Just because they both talk about prana doesn't mean they're the same thing. Jasmuheen is just riding Hinduism's coatails like so many New Agers do with Native American mythology and various other ancient belief systems. Not a very creative bunch.
Jani doesn't necessarily consider his alleged ability pranic, and even if he did it would be Hindu, not Breatharian-still not relevant to this page. -- Maprovonsha172 14:00, 17 September 2005 (UTC) Also, your last edit summary said you removed POV content. I'm sure you can justify such edits as 'removing POV' here were you to do so again. I explain everything I'm doing on the article here. I'm trying to make the article NPOV, but there are several instances in the article where it seems bias towards the subject matter, and I try to balance that. With facts. I've justified it all above, and if you're going to revert anymore, you can justify yourself below. Show a little wikicourtesy. -- Maprovonsha172 14:17, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
As we have little evidence either way, it may be presumptuous to either assert that he thinks his alleged "spiritual" nourishment is pranic or isn't. I think what little evidence we do have favors my view. If it was pranic, it wouldn't need to be from a godess, which he certainly has said that it is, his followers even call him goddess. Also, whatever this elixor supposedly is, I'm sure it would be physical, but Hindus maintain that prana is not physical. Furthermore, even if Jani would claim his alleged powers are pranic in nature, they would still be Hindu, and not Breatharian and thus, not relevant to this page. You could place that section on the Hindu page. But as I said above you're confusing the world's oldest religion with the world's newest form of dogmatic thinking (New Age Spiritualism), Breatharianism is nonsense, the main propenant showed us that in her failed test. The only people benifting from this are the people making money off of the books and seminars, and they wouldn't be making nearly as much if they weren't exploiting Hinduism's reputation amongst "spiritual people," in effect riding Hinduism's coattails to riches. Jani is irrelevant in a page about Breatharianism simply because he is Hindu, not Breatharian.
I do think it's relevent to explain the character of Ellen Greves and her husband, as Omega has said, because their characters have been called into question. It is relevent to know if they have committed white-collar crime because many people believe Ellen Greve's is making a living off of white-collar crime (in the way L. Ron Hubbard did). And as Omega and I find it relevent, it has consensus here.
As for the, "To be fair, however," I'll agree to remove that but not what follows it. It is notable, to be fair. If we were to end that paragraph at her quote we would be favoring her.
As for controversial See alsos, my two aren't the only ones. Most of those See alsos are controversial, not least of which Qi, so if I'm to put delusion and true-believer syndrome in the text I think Qi ought to be as well. -- Maprovonsha172 15:20, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Well, the main problem now appears to be the disputed definition of Breatharianism. Perhaps we should change it to Inedia. Everyone agree? Maprovonsha172 15:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone disagree with changing the article title to Inedia, since the article deals with non-Breatharian self-proclaimed inediates? Maprovonsha172 15:39, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Removed "According to the Skeptic's Dictionary, Jani's story is a hoax using obviously amusing names. [1]" The names have no relation to the schoolboy captions they label them with. 82.9.180.204 15:26, 11 February 2006
Should we rename the article to something more general? I can't think of a better name. — Omegatron 20:44, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Furthermore, I'm going to remove the Category:Diet, because a diet is the sum of food consumed by an organism, and so Breatharianism is not a diet so much as it is the fatal lack of a diet (as it was for the three people that tried). -- Maprovonsha172 22:49, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
The line about 6,000 people is too much. There is NO evidence that these people exist, and leaving her quote end that paragraph (which is to say, allow her lie to pass off as respectable) is unwikipedian. It's misleading, and if that's wikipedian, there's no hope for this site's credibility. She was lying. She was rationalizing her failure. It deserves to be followed by the facts.
And if this article is going to include Jani, we'll need to call it Inedia. Maprovonsha172 22:58, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
And if anyone is going to dispute these edits, justify those revisions below: Maprovonsha172 03:05, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Am I the only one editing this page with any wikicourtesy?
Whoever added the Roman Catholicism bit showed his ineptness. It was placed under "Other explanations." What other explanation?
Also, this is more Inedia than it is Breatharian. The title of this page must change.
And if you're the same person that removed the basic facts placed after Ellen Greves' quote to balance the POV you had better justify that here. Maprovonsha172 03:12, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
The tutorial clearly states that we shouldn't avoid objective facts. Sometimes the facts sway to one POV, that's way it is. Some people are wrong and some are right. I'm not saying who is right in the article, I'm presenting objective facts that would lead any reasonable person to believe whatever the facts suggest. If you don't think their objective facts, you've yet to dispute them here. Who are 6,000 people? And why, if they have no problem going without food for years, did Ellen Greves nearly die of dehydration in the conditions she requested after 4 days? Leaving the quote at the end of the paragraph implies that she was saying is definitive. In fact, it was a lie she used to justify her failure. She was saving face with a line of bullshit you're defending.
If you're incapable of understanding why leaving that lie at the end of the paragraph at the end of the paragraph is POV, perhaps you should request a mediation as this is going nowhere. Of course I'm going to revert it, re-introducing objective facts, and thus balancing the POV. Maprovonsha172 19:51, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Maybe a list of quotes? Probably belongs under her own article, though. — Omegatron 04:05, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
The fourth one is taken out of context. She says, "I asked for fresh air. Seventy per cent of my nutrients come from fresh air. I couldn’t even breathe." But the article goes on to say that she was moved to a mountainside retreat where could have plenty of fresh air, and she even said she would do fine there. A couple of days of fresh air later, she was shaking, her pupils were dilated, and she stopped the test. Maprovonsha172 17:55, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
In the first sentence of the second paragraph it says, "Breatharianism or inedia," implying that two distinctly different things are really different words for the same thing. Inedia is an alleged practice that has been believed about for a long time. Breatharianism is a New Age manifestation of this irrationalism. It involves a few charismatic leaders lying to people, and people suffering for that. Usually I can agree that even if what New Agers say is untrue, they may not necessarily be lying. But in this case there is no room for such apologetics. The two most famous leaders in the Breatharian movement, Wiley Brooks and Ellen Greves, have been caught ordering food. This shouldn't surprise anyone. This is all just nonsense, after all. But the article doesn't do a good job of sorting out fact from fiction. In an effort to balance the POV, some wikipedians try to defend the subject the article concerns. This is the most pleasant explanation I can imagine for this article. There is, however it came about, an undeniable pro-inediate claims POV which must be reconciled. The article should be re-written from an NPOV standpoint. Maprovonsha172 20:06, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
And all I want to do is report the facts. It is a fact that no self-proclaimed breatharian has done better than Ellen Greves did under the supervision of doctors. I think we can be certain that she was saving face when she said that 6,000 people in the world have no problem going without food. It is bullshit, as Princeton philosopher Harry Frankfurt defined it, it is a complete lack of respect for the truth in favor of some end (furthering the interests of the Republicans, the Democrats, Coca Cola or Jasmuheen herself). I agree that that shouldn't be in the article. We don't have to say that she was probably lying. We need only say that it's unclear who these 6,000 people are, if they exist at all. Also, we must make it clear that some people wonder if these 6,000 people can go without food just fine, why she had so much trouble (being the leader of the "movement") in the conditions she requested. That's not my opinion, it's backed up by reputable links which were deleted with the rest. Maprovonsha172 02:20, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Even if Greves wasn't just making stuff up to save face, 6000 "followers" doesn't mean 6000 people that never eat. There are, unfortunately, millions of people that believe in ("follow") equally stupid things, but that doesn't imply that they can really cure cancer by touch, have a good reason to stay at home on Fridays the 13th, or even have any idea what they're talking about. Witness the perversion of Kabbalah and astrology into mere trends by the clueless (and no, I don't mean to dismiss the former out of hand, it's just the most obvious). What is your real problem with this, Map? Your misunderstanding (or bias, or whatever this is) is obvious from your first comment here. Neither the NPOV nor total rewrite templates belong here; it is abundantly clear that the subject matter itself is bullshit, but the article itself is well-written and doesn't try to pass off statements by proponents as truth. Same reason we don't just delete all articles pertaining to religion, junk science or urban myths, really. - Straker 06:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
"All animals need food, people are animals, so all people need food."
There have been rare occurences of "Bretharians". Let's say the ratio "people who claim they need food":"people who claim they don't need food" is for example 1:0,000000001.
How many animals do we know? Have we observed all individual animals? or at least 50%? 30%? Where do we think we know about animals, or more specific, mammals? Books, Zoos, from our pets, from Safaris, documentaries... Is this at least 20% of whole population? Think about it.
What do we know about the ones that we observed, preferably in their natural habitat (so no pets or animals bred for meat, cause we know that we also act diferently in forced or unnatural habitats.Or when under stress etc.)? We know that they eat food, not that they need it. Because every person on earth walks (with exception of disabled for whichever reason), but we don't need walking to survive, do we?
So... how do we know that there is not 1% of animals that don't eat or need food? So how can we say that in human population this is not possible in that 0,000001%?
From the perspective of energy: If we live, breathe, walk, run... we are moving our body. We are not moving it in constant speed and constant direction, so there are accelerations and decelerations, for which we need force. To produce force, we need energy.How do we (potentially) get energy? Air, sun (via skin and via heated bodies on earth), water, food, (prana). From the "transmition of energy" point of view and based on Newton's laws, the less we move, the less energy we need.
How do we know how much energy we need to survive? Statistics? How much energy is in our feces, when it goes out? How much percent was it used? What is energy? One kind of energy is stored in bonds between atoms in molecules. When we consume these molecules in shape of food, they are broken apart in our digestion system. If we don't chew food, stomach needs more energy to break the food into very small pieces. If we ate heavy food (saturated fats), body needs more energy to break them apart to Carbohydrates. If we eat food that changes the Ph value of blood, kidneys need more energy to equalize the Ph. In the end there are Carbohydrates. Which can be transformed into fats and stored under skin or they are source of energy when they pass the loungs.
I wonder how much energy and action is needed for the human body to process all the food and how much is net gain of it. Someone should do a research.
I am not convincing anyone. I am sceptical. Because if we accept that everything what majority of people do is "normal" (wanted) and essential for life, it may soon be normal and essential that we make war, that we take medicines on a daily basis, etc. All those things in my opinion, along with food, are a kind of drugs that make us happy for a short period of time, but in long-term destroy our body.
So i am saying that we cannot say that every human being needs food (as we know it) to survive for a long time.
Just a thought.
Aambro 08:23, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Your (I mean the majority of the people in this forum) approach to this topic is very unscientific because it is obviously coloured by prejudices. It does not fit your world view therefore all of them (breatharians) must lie. This was your conclusion already in the beginning and I am sure you found enough material to support your view scientifically. But there are also some resources which contradict your scenario and dont forget, it only needs one, because if one person is able to live without food, the possibility that there are more is increasing very fast.
Hira Manek has been observed by a team of scientists in Ahmedabad India for more than 200 hundert days. So there is a scientifically reported case of a man who does not eat. But this fact does not seem to count in the minds of the most of the people in this forum. Also Prahlad Jani or in the past Therese Neumann have been reported BY SCIENTISTS not to eat. But you prefer to write about the husband of Ellen Greve who has been in jail....
You say that human beings are animals, biologically this might be true but there is a fundamental difference between a human being and an animal: a human being has a mind and the mind is probably (I guess you agree) one of the most powerfull instruments in existence as we know it. There are much more possibilities and powers in the human mind as your kind of people tend to believe. Thousands of people have gone through the 21-day-process (7 days without drinking) without being harmed (this is a fact). According to science they should be all dead. Yes, three people died but how many people died of wrong food or too much food?
I have personally met Dr. Michael Werner, a german scientist who claims not to eat for 5 years. He started this experiment out of scientific curiosity but you don t want to take him serious, you don t want to examine people like him, like Manek, like Jani because if they don t lie your whole world view collapses.
I am sorry for my english, it is not my mothertongue, therefore I can t write as eloquent as I want to.
best regards
C.S.
What on earth is that bit at the end about sleepwalking all about? -- Gantlord 19:36, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
from the old jasmuheen article:
A German scientist has also now published a book saying that he has now not eaten for many years and shares how this is possible from a scientific view. Zinaida Baranova a Russian woman also supports this reality and has been without food and fluid for more than 5 years and Prahlad Jani in India has been food and fluid free for 68 years. Hira Ratan Manek has also stepped forward to share about feeding from micro food or solar energy and has done extensive medical and scientific testing. Work has begun with Jasmuheen and her political connections on introducing this alternate feeding source into third world countries.
Some other people we might research for inclusion here. — Omegatron 01:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
The paragraph describing Ellen Greves is still a contentious one. Recently, someone tried to end the paragraph differently, seeing what is obviously POV in the subject of the article's favor (as it usually is). Ending the paragraph with Greve's quote, her "challenge" (as it says) is blatent POV. We should say "It's unclear who these people are, if they exist." ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy). People need food to survive, you don't need a kindergarten education to know that. But even if we can't say, "if they exist," we should at least say, "It's unclear who these 6,000 people are." We are giving undue weight to Greve's claims. ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy). We can't come out and say it, but we can state the facts as they are, and give majority weight to majority opinion, going along with wikipedia guidelines. And the NPOV tutorial does say that we shouldn't avoid objective facts. Of course, that humans need to eat food is an objective fact, but, regardless, it is certainly an objective fact that it's unclear who these 6,000 people are (that could, unlike her, live without food). I'm putting up the simple and objective sentence, "It's unclear who these 6,000 people are." Maprov
How many times do we have to say it? — Omegatron 19:38, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
And yes, failing to point out this lack of evidence implies that the statement is true.
Earlier, before Omegatron's edit, it looked like it was her claim.
Now can we move on to Wiley Brooks? :-) — Omegatron 23:33, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Sure thing. What do you want to say about him? Maprov 03:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
There's more info available on those sites. — Omegatron 20:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Please add a section on his $200,000.00 introductory course. If nothing else, it is quite amusing that he thinks he can find applicants. 70.21.216.114 02:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm adding a couple quotes from the doctor that supervised Ellen Greves test. They're quite releveant and are objective facts (that he said them), whether you agree with him and me or not. I'll add a link as well. Maprov
Does anyone have any specific POV issues that need to be sorted out before the NPOV template can be removed? If so, address them below. If no one comes forward, I'll remove the template in a few days. Maprov
I think the various concepts are close enough to be in the same article, but should be kept separate. The three deaths should be under Jasmuheen's heading, since they are directly related to her.
The other cases should be presented separately, under the more general term "inedia", which has been legend for much much longer. Here are some more from history:
I see you have been editing my capitalizations. Maybe I've misunderstood something, but I was under the impression that they were proper names/titles, like Baptist, Democrat, etc., ie the names for a group, hence should be capitalized. Please help me understand this matter. I've lived in Denmark for the last 23 years, so my once perfect American English is somewhat screwed up now.....;-) -- Fyslee 21:24, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Okay, what gives here? By grouping similar subjects together, I thought I was making the article more systematic, rather than the haphazard appearance it had. Maybe you have other plans. Please explain. I'm not trying to waste our time here. -- Fyslee 21:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
I have no qualm with the content on this site. I just stumbled upon it from "fakir." But I hate to see misunderstanding of logical syllogisms. Someone has misunderstood the implications of a valid syllogism. The opponent can easily retort that you have a premise wrong -- for instance that they believe that "all animals must eat, except human breatharians." No syllogism can solve this because it isn't a logic problem, but rather an empirical problem. If science relied upon syllogisms scientific advancement would come to a stand still, as empirical studies would be replaced with conventional assumptions as premises.Your logic is immaculate. But this isn't actually relavant to the discussion. Hope this disn't hurt anyone's feelings. Just wanted to clarify about the logic. Chris 15:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Well anyway, you get the point. And thanks for taking it well. I meant no disrespect.
You don't understand the use of logic in science. Science cannot rely upon simple syllogisms. Syllogisms are theoretical devises in logic only. Science is empirical. You need to grasp the difference. For instance, a scientist could not crunch the data "All crows are black" into a syllogism, for it is impossible to observe all crows. Rather science deals entirely in cases, not in generalizations about "all possible instances." If they did, science would perish into dogmatism such as in the pre-Rennaissance. No one need feel defensive. This is just a fact of modern science. Please leave the use of logic to those more qualified to understand its implications, e.g. theoretical mathematics and computer applications. N Eti talk 22:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I see now you're right. Those quotes about the syllogism are very old. My apologies. N Eti talk 23:49, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Fellows, I don´t think we should include ten-day tests under this article. It is simply irrelevant to the matter, and not proof of anything. I myself had spent more than a week without eating (only drinking water), of course, loosing many kilos in the process. Anyone can do it for a few 4-5 days with a little will. -- Damifb 09:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
"...skeptics can also point to somnambulism as an alternative explanation for this purported phenomenon"
Sleepwalking is not an alternative explanation for living without food, since sleeping is not the same as eating. Therefore, unless someone objects, I will delete this section of the article shortly. David 19:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Damifb 20:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I edited the "another explanation" section to clarify why somnambulism is another explanation. It is not sleepwalking itself that is the explanation, but sleepeating. David 17:42, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
It was mentioned previously: There is a German scientist who's experience with living on light are published in a book book
Actually his book is not only about his own experience when he was object of a scientific study, but it contains also accounts of several other people who underwent the 21-day process proposed by Jasmuheen.
I'll try to get more information about it. I have the impression that it would be useful to add this. Unluckily I'm not yet very used to wikipedia editing, but I'll do my best.
Okko7 22:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
"Wiley Brooks' Breatharian Institute of America charges $10,000,000 US (minimum) to learn how to live without food."
Though I don't know what they charge, I seriously doubt the 10 million dollar figure is accurate.
Pitchclerk 02:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Met Brooks himself in Sturgis, SD this past week and the $10 million figure is the one he is quoting. A more accurate question is does he have any takers at this price?
Dinny 65.101.219.177 20:33, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The section under "Another explanation" contained the following text: "an alternative explanation for the reported phenomenon." Previously, it read: "an alternative explanation for this purported phenomenon." Both seem fairly POV to me. Using google's define, I get that a "phenomenon" is "any state or process known through the senses rather than by intuition or reasoning; a remarkable development". Skeptics would want to modify away from that, believers would want to embrace it. The modifiers used show that conflict:
I am changing this, for the moment, to reflect that inedia may or may not be "true" (NPOV) to include "purported". To avoid possible bias with "phenomenon" to "ability". Mdbrownmsw 13:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please explain why the Category:African cuisine tag was removed? It seems clear to me that this is a culinary trend in Africa. Can you produce some evidence to the contrary? In the future, I would appreciate if you discussed changes like these on the talk page first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.30.14 ( talk) 01:02, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Dr. K, but there is definitely truth to what the person above you is saying. He doesn't have his facts completely correct, but it is right for the most part. He's most likely citing information from the top of his head. In any case, "innocent until proven guilty" holds very true in this case. In fact, I think it's rather frightful that as a doctor you would prevent this sort of information from spreading so that more can understand the ways of culinary arts in Western Africa. Don't you want people to be free of bitter-tasting ignorance? One would hope so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.88.3 ( talk) 02:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
There's no need for a separate skepticism section. Information about Jasmuheen and her followers should remain in her own section. It's much more clear and easier to follow that way. (Although I can understand that enthusiasts might want it to be difficult to follow...) — Omegatron 14:15, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
Twenty-five million dollars sounds awfully much to join the American Breatharian Club or whatever it's called. Can that be right?-- JO 24 ( talk) 16:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Seriously, this can't be real. The language used in the section about Wiley Brooks is so ridiculous and humours that I think it has to be some kind of joke or hoax. I wouldn't be suspired if James Randi himself was behind it, he does do those sort of things to show how stupid certain people are (see Project Alpha). I mean 25 million dollars to live on air, "base frequency" big macs, the Fifth Dimension and "Earth Prime", this has to be a satire. -- Hibernian ( talk) 16:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't this page mention Ram Bahadur Bomjon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.172.233 ( talk) 00:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
In this section is states that there is no evidence to support the Breatharinisms claims. What about Prahlad Jani, is it not proven that he went without food or water for 10 days under strict observation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.72.104.115 ( talk) 16:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Not eating for 10 days is not evidence that such a practice is sustainable. 124.171.176.108 ( talk) 14:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I reverted a hagiographical account based on a single reference by Daily Mail because it selectively quoted comments like: A neurophysician says Jani’s survival is miraculous. etc. without also mentioning the criticism by the Indian Rationalist Association which criticisises the whole operation as a probable fraud. The journalists comments were also cherry-picked without adding his last comment: After all, wouldn’t life be boring if everything was rational? which indicates his tongue-in-cheek view of the whole affair. The hospital investigation by the Indian authorities is not a scientific study and the quality of the conclusions of these scientists and officials as reported in a tabloid British newspaper cannot be taken to be academically valid. After these gentlemen publish their findings in a scientific journal then maybe we can take them seriously. And let us not forget. What we are trying here to do is write an encyclopedia. Extraordinary claims of this type need extraordinary proof. We cannot take seriously a few fawning comments by a couple of scientists and military officials without knowing the quality controls of their study and without them being peer-reviewed and published in a scientific journal and not in a British tabloid. Otherwise we try to create smoke and mirrors for our readers here. Dr.K. λogos πraxis 13:49, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
-begs comment: we are not here to arbitrate truth - only to document. Our job is not tell the reader what to think, but to provide the tools for apprehension. That said, we can avoid ascribing confabulated creditability to incredible claims by clearly stating that the nature of what we relay is as reported and not as observed. Extraordinary claims need context contrived to provide an unobstructed view for comprehensive apprehension by the reader - and nothing more. The measures taken by those such as the Indian Rationalist Association speak for themselves; a mention of those measures in the article before indicating the rejection of IRA participation in the study may be appropriate, so long as it is not through context drawing a conclusion that does not come from a quality cited source - no mater how logical or reasonable a conclusion. Frankly, I find the claims unscrupulous and intellectually repulsive; my only recourse is to find quality references and apply them in the article in a way that accurately represents their stature and proportion amongst all other applicable references of equal stature. Mavigogun ( talk) 15:14, 8 May 2010 (UTC)What we are trying here to do is write an encyclopedia. Extraordinary claims of this type need extraordinary proof. We cannot take seriously a few fawning comments by a couple of scientists and military officials without knowing the quality controls of their study and without them being peer-reviewed and published in a scientific journal and not in a British tabloid. Otherwise we try to create smoke and mirrors for our readers here.
Some blood parameters during his 2003 tests are published here: [15], they show signs of dehydratation. 109.43.248.4 ( talk) 14:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
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The fact that this goddamned article even exists here is yet more evidence of the inestimable gullibility and damnability of the human race. That this meshuggah bit of idiocy is even given the nicey-nice Wiki-NPOV respect shown in the article is a blot on whatever intellectual capabilities humans supposedly have. Shame on all of you! Yet another demonstration that we're fucking doomed.
Oh, and have a nice day. == ILike2BeAnonymous 19:23, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello, I'm Comodor W. Falkon, founder of Arcane Sanctum... I, and my friends - we are fighting against "man" called Breatharian //alias MoneySlave // and his theories for long time... And, I'm afraid, we aren't as succesfull, as we want to be... For now, he is warned, that another open propagation of Anorexia or Bulimia - his favourite ilnesis will proceed into bann - but only on our server - www.lide.cz , but we know, that he have some clubs on www.Quick.cz and Yahoo!
( removed unsourced contentious material per policy)... (Against all our tryes)
Btw: We - fighters against him - are grouped into "church" of Deatharians ( Breatharians : people who don't eat // Deatharians people who don't breath )
I try to estabilish a Wiki-page on Wiki/Deatharians - but I'm censored... So, I'f I win, I be pleased if someone will come and discuss with us against our deadly enemies...
These links don't work any more and so were moved from the main page to here...
-- Nairobiny
We are living in a world where a few control the many, of course something as dubious as living without a middleman would seem odd. You can't make narrow minded profit off of people that are free. As soon as the current dictators of reality decide it is more profitable to support life on planet earth than to self destruct is when this will be looked out with an open mind. Inedia is nothing new. It has been going on since the beginning of time. But this all is based on when you consider time began... which is again based on fascist history and fear . We have alot to learn... Please don't use the term "common sense" in the inedia definition.. Since "common sense" is incredibly relative. We would all benefit from grown ups making the call here. People that have already shut themselves off from "what is" need not apply. Reality is not a closed circle. All insecure maniacs that benefit of exploiting others for "survival", open your eyes. We have a lot to learn yet! We are just beginning! We are still in nursery school as a society! There is nothing new age about it. Take Pills 01:37, November 18, 2005 (UTC)
The Wiley Brooks sentence looks dubious to me and contradicts Wiley Brooks. Deleting it for now. — Adam Conover † 03:30, May 25, 2005 (UTC)
The first sentence seems to imply that such people exist, I'm going to add a sentence after it clarifying that there have been no recorded cases to date. Maprovonsha172 01:23, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I know you want to give these New Agers the benifit of the doubt and everything, but there just haven't been any verified cases of this occurrence to date. Of course there haven't. Consider this simple syllogism:
P1. All animals require food.
P2. Humans are animals.
C. Humans require food.
That's obvious. Breatharianism is not only bullshit, it is dangerous bullshit. People have been hurt, and some have died, and it would be irresponsible of us to present it any different. Maprovonsha172 19:21, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
Regarding the statement "There is no accepted scientific evidence for any of the claims put forward by the breatharians." :
—from BBC story: Fasting fakir flummoxes physicians
This man spent 10 days under constant observation by physicians–far beyond the 3-4 days it is said the usual person can go without water. Is this not scientific evidence? Dforest 08:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I changed the sentence to say 'proof' instead of 'evidence' and added info from the article you sited to the paragraph. Lachatdelarue (talk) 14:05, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Like the article says, it's merely a medical mystery. I'm sure ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy), like so many other New Age claims of evidence, as ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy). In any event, it is irrelevant to this article, because the man doesn't claim to be a breatharian. He doesn't say he is sustained by prana, he claims a goddess sustains him through a hole in his palate. Think of Hume's maxim regarding miracles, which would be more miraculous, that he is telling the truth or that he isn't? We can usually expect the least miraculous possibility to turn out true. Since it is irrelevant to this article, I don't see the subsequent changes as justified and I will change them back. Maprovonsha172 16:37, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
I removed 'of course' from the last sentence of the first paragraph, again, because it makes it NPOV. The use of the phrase 'of course' suggests a pre-existing bias or expectation. Other people obviously agree with me. Lachatdelarue (talk) 13:39, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
x --> y
P1. All animals are consumers of food.
w --> x
P2. Humans are animals.
w --> y
C. Humans are consumers of food.
That's obvious. Breatharianism is not only bullshit, it is dangerous bullshit. People have been hurt, and some have died, and it would be irresponsible of us to present it any different.
Of course I'm going to replace "Of course." Maprovonsha172 00:51, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
If anyone wants to dispute whether "of course" should be used they should here do so, and in so doing, should explain just why what seems obvious to me apparently isn't universally held as obvious.
What I have presented above is a simple syllogism.
All X are Y
All W are X
Hence, all W are Y
Below I have put it even more simply:
P1. That all animals require food is obvious.
P2. That all humans are animals is obvious.
C. Ergo, that humans require food is obvious.
Considering the fact that humans require food is obvious, we wouldn't be wrong in saying that, "of course humans require food." Maprovonsha172 18:44, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
The NPOV tutorial says we shouldn't avoid objective facts. What above isn't an objective fact? Maprovonsha172 16:54, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
You have alot of orders. Here's one: read my post before you comment on them. You say "it" is not an objective fact, I asked "what about isn't an objective fact." So what above isn't an objective fact. Maprovonsha172 20:04, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
"Of course" is quite properly used when something obvious is being stated. There is nothing PoV about stating objective facts; stating objective facts is plainly placed in the tutorial under "what not to avoid."
x --> y
P1. All animals are consumers of food.
w --> x
P2. Humans are animals.
w --> y
C. Humans are consumers of food.
What I have presented above is a simple syllogism.
All X are Y
All W are X
Hence, all W are Y
Below I have put it even more simply:
P1. That all animals require food is obvious.
P2. That all humans are animals is obvious.
C. Ergo, that humans require food is obvious.
If anyone wants to dispute whether "of course" should be used they should here do so, and in so doing, explain just why what seems obvious to me apparently isn't universally held as obvious. Maprovonsha172 01:43, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm listening, and if you've read it I'm only waiting for you to respond to it. Maprovonsha172 18:37, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
The first person mentioned in the article doesn't claim to be a breatharian, so to call the next person "Another breatharian" is a false implication. I'm rewording it to clearly express the fact that the second one claims to be a breatharian, and the first one has not. Maprovonsha172 18:52, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I'm going to remove where it says that the Fakir is a breatharian, nowhere in the article did it say that he is a breatharian nor did he claim to be in the article. He claims a goddess supplies him sustainence, not the air. Then, of course, I'll have to remove from the other little anecdote "Another breatharian" since the first one isn't one. Maprovonsha172 18:01, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
(section added for readability's sake.) -- Dforest
Excuse me, but can anyone tell me what is POV about the current article? I honestly fail to see how this could possibly be POV... -- Pikhq 04:49:46, 2005-09-06 (UTC)
This version seems reasonable to me for the most part. I mainly have problems with statements like: (Note these are now removed.)
and
I still think this sentence is slightly problematic:
It depends on your definition of verified cases; no, it has not been proven that people can be sustained by prana, nor that they can go without food or water indefinitely. But the Jani case has shown a man on a total fast, without water, for 10 days under close scrutiny, with zero ill effects according to his doctors. The Hira Ratan Manek case has shown a man, also under close scrutiny, on a water fast without any supplementary nutrients, for 411 days. In his case there was a significant loss of weight, so it cannot be assumed he could continue his fast indefinitely. However, these cases are nevertheless remarkable--10 days is considerably beyond the time a normal person could go without water and remain in perfect health. 411 days is far beyond the time a normal person could go without food and survive. I also think the article focuses far too much on Jasmuheen, but that's not necessarily a POV issue, more a lack of content issue. Note it was Omegatron who tagged it POV. Omegatron, what do you think? -- Dforest 06:27, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
I presume NPOV doesn't mean we have to balance completely between human beings who claim they can live without food or drink but have not submitted to a proper "Big Brother"-house type test (due to obvious ethical reasons which occured in Jasmenine's "60 Minutes" test), and empirical evidence going back to the dawn of humanity? Kingal86 ( talk) 00:23, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
I've added a lot of notable information, and removed the bit about Jani, because he never claimed to be a Breatharian. He doesn't even claim to go without food the same way Breatharians claim to. He is in no way a Breatharian, so it is irrelevant to the article. The same goes for other irrelevant mentions of non-pranic inedia.
Please, out of wikicourtesy, justify further edits below. Maprovonsha172 14:44, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
"However, there is absolutely no evidence that prana is anything more than an example of just how imaginative the irrational ancients were."
"A simple syllogism in favor of such common sense"
"Instead, she lived to lead others to their deaths."
Regarding the cost of Jasmuheen's house, you say "of course it's relevant". It is not a matter of course to include this even in biographical articles--which this is not. Note there is already an article on Jasmuheen. Plenty of new age gurus, self-appointed or otherwise, live in posh homes; I cannot see the relevance to an article on breatharianism. In the case of Bill Gates' home, for example, the relevance is obvious as his home is in the public eye; here it is out of place. If you disagree, the burden is on you to justify its relevance. Dforest 16:42, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
'"who once went to prison for misappropriating a pension fund" is not related to the issue"
Alot of that reverting was uncalled for. First of all, Jani doesn't claim to be a Breatharian, and actually claims to be something contrary to it. It even says in the wikipedia article as taken from the BBC article on him, "Jani doesn't claim to be a breatharian or to rely on prana but, rather, claims a goddess sustains him through nectar that filters down through a hole in his palate." There you have it. Not only does he not claim to be a Breatharian, he doesn't even claim that what he does is in any way related to "prana," which is what Jasmuheen claims to live on. Perhaps Jani should have his own article, but it is irrelevant here. I'm removing it.
As for my syllogism, I don't see how it is irrelevant or POV. It is commense sense, and common sense doesn't require rigorous logic. It's not POV to say that it is a matter of common sense, because common sense is often wrong. I'm restoring it. It logically follow, so if someone wants to elaborate on it he/she must put which premise (or both) is considered the false premise from which the conclusion that humans require food logically follows.
Also, I don't see how "However, there is absolutely no evidence that prana is anything more than an example of just how imaginative the irrational ancients were" is POV. It's not an opinion that there isn't any evidence when there isn't any, and it's not an opinion that the ancients in question were imaginative and irrational. I'm restoring it. Likewise, I don't see how "Instead, she lived to lead others to their deaths" is POV because she did. She said you don't have to eat, some people took her up on that and starved to death. She ended a four-day fast, saving her life, to live on to spread a message that lead people to their deaths. Also, I don't know why it was erased that Jasmuheen's defense was anecdotal (and failed to justify it on the talk page), which was indeed anecdotal. She said that 6,000 people around the world go without food, but she's the only one who actually agreed to go under testing and she got severely ill. There is no evidence that anyone can go a month without food, and we need look no further for proof than Jasmuheen's disastrous attempt to do so (not to mention her dead followers).
Also, I'm removing some of the irrelvant links. Jani doesn't claim to be a Breatharian, or that his alleged powers are even pranic in nature (the essential characteristic of Breatharianism is a belief that prana nourishes). The same goes for Hira Ratan Manek, and Dr. Michael Werner. These are all irrelevant to a page about Breatharianism. Maprovonsha172 21:43, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Maprovonsha172 23:05, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have any specific complaints justifying the POV-tag? Maprovonsha172 01:19, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
No it's not. You may want to say it's just my opinion that someone is irrational, because it carries such a negative connotation, but some things are irrational just as some things are rational. Believing in something for no reason (with no proof) is irrational, and there is no reason to believe in prana. Any other examples? Maprovonsha172
You can say anything is an opinion. Anything contested can be called an opinion. Therefore it's an opinion that the earth is round. That's my personal opinion. Wikipedia is full of opinions. Our job is to sort out which opinion sare supported by the facts. I'm waiting for you to cite George Dennison Prentice for that last sentence of yours, but whether you will or meet matters little. The fact of the matter is I have consistently argued my points, and you have responded with mere assertians. There is a differnce between argument and contradiction. If you want to tell me to use proper arguments and not assertians, I will, and I hope you won't make yourself a hypocrite by not responding in kind (with an actual counter-argument).
The following explains it quite comprehensively: x --> y
P1. All animals are consumers of food.
w --> x
P2. Humans are animals.
w --> y
C. Humans are consumers of food.
What I have presented above is a simple syllogism.
All X are Y
All W are X
Hence, all W are Y
Below I have put it even more simply:
P1. That all animals require food is obvious.
P2. That all humans are animals is obvious.
C. Ergo, that humans require food is obvious.
If you want to counter-argue and not just respond with bare assertians, do so. I would think if you disagree with anything above you either believe that it doesn't follow, or that one of the premises are wrong. Point out your concerns. Use arguements, not assertians. As George Dennison Prentice said, "a bare assertian is not necessarily the naked truth." Maprovonsha172 15:34, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I've again removed the irrelevant cases of those who claim to go without food but don't claim to be Breatharians or even go without food thanks to "pranic energy" as all Breatharians do. Manek, Werner and Jani are not Breatharians in any way, and shouldn't be treated as such on this page. Maprovonsha172 15:45, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
In my defense regarding the minor edit thing, I tried a couple times to save and it kept saying the wikipedia was not responding, so I hit the minor edit button, and the save button, and it worked. As far as Jani is concerned, it says in the BBC article that he believes a goddess feeds him, prana isn't mentioned. Maprovonsha172 17:00, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
That doesn't necessarily follow. He can be a Hindu and know all about prana and still consider the elixor something different from prana. In fact he would have to, considering the fact that the elixor must be something physical, while prana isn't considered physical. Plus, he has claimed a goddess feeds him, having never mentioned prana on any record I've seen. And if prana fed you, an all pervading force, you wouldn't really need a goddess, would you? The problem here is seeing too much of a link between the oldest religion in the world (Hinduism) and the newest dogmatic thinking in the world (New Age Bullshit). Just because they both talk about prana doesn't mean they're the same thing. Jasmuheen is just riding Hinduism's coatails like so many New Agers do with Native American mythology and various other ancient belief systems. Not a very creative bunch.
Jani doesn't necessarily consider his alleged ability pranic, and even if he did it would be Hindu, not Breatharian-still not relevant to this page. -- Maprovonsha172 14:00, 17 September 2005 (UTC) Also, your last edit summary said you removed POV content. I'm sure you can justify such edits as 'removing POV' here were you to do so again. I explain everything I'm doing on the article here. I'm trying to make the article NPOV, but there are several instances in the article where it seems bias towards the subject matter, and I try to balance that. With facts. I've justified it all above, and if you're going to revert anymore, you can justify yourself below. Show a little wikicourtesy. -- Maprovonsha172 14:17, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
As we have little evidence either way, it may be presumptuous to either assert that he thinks his alleged "spiritual" nourishment is pranic or isn't. I think what little evidence we do have favors my view. If it was pranic, it wouldn't need to be from a godess, which he certainly has said that it is, his followers even call him goddess. Also, whatever this elixor supposedly is, I'm sure it would be physical, but Hindus maintain that prana is not physical. Furthermore, even if Jani would claim his alleged powers are pranic in nature, they would still be Hindu, and not Breatharian and thus, not relevant to this page. You could place that section on the Hindu page. But as I said above you're confusing the world's oldest religion with the world's newest form of dogmatic thinking (New Age Spiritualism), Breatharianism is nonsense, the main propenant showed us that in her failed test. The only people benifting from this are the people making money off of the books and seminars, and they wouldn't be making nearly as much if they weren't exploiting Hinduism's reputation amongst "spiritual people," in effect riding Hinduism's coattails to riches. Jani is irrelevant in a page about Breatharianism simply because he is Hindu, not Breatharian.
I do think it's relevent to explain the character of Ellen Greves and her husband, as Omega has said, because their characters have been called into question. It is relevent to know if they have committed white-collar crime because many people believe Ellen Greve's is making a living off of white-collar crime (in the way L. Ron Hubbard did). And as Omega and I find it relevent, it has consensus here.
As for the, "To be fair, however," I'll agree to remove that but not what follows it. It is notable, to be fair. If we were to end that paragraph at her quote we would be favoring her.
As for controversial See alsos, my two aren't the only ones. Most of those See alsos are controversial, not least of which Qi, so if I'm to put delusion and true-believer syndrome in the text I think Qi ought to be as well. -- Maprovonsha172 15:20, 19 September 2005 (UTC)
Well, the main problem now appears to be the disputed definition of Breatharianism. Perhaps we should change it to Inedia. Everyone agree? Maprovonsha172 15:15, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone disagree with changing the article title to Inedia, since the article deals with non-Breatharian self-proclaimed inediates? Maprovonsha172 15:39, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Removed "According to the Skeptic's Dictionary, Jani's story is a hoax using obviously amusing names. [1]" The names have no relation to the schoolboy captions they label them with. 82.9.180.204 15:26, 11 February 2006
Should we rename the article to something more general? I can't think of a better name. — Omegatron 20:44, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
Furthermore, I'm going to remove the Category:Diet, because a diet is the sum of food consumed by an organism, and so Breatharianism is not a diet so much as it is the fatal lack of a diet (as it was for the three people that tried). -- Maprovonsha172 22:49, 16 September 2005 (UTC)
The line about 6,000 people is too much. There is NO evidence that these people exist, and leaving her quote end that paragraph (which is to say, allow her lie to pass off as respectable) is unwikipedian. It's misleading, and if that's wikipedian, there's no hope for this site's credibility. She was lying. She was rationalizing her failure. It deserves to be followed by the facts.
And if this article is going to include Jani, we'll need to call it Inedia. Maprovonsha172 22:58, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
And if anyone is going to dispute these edits, justify those revisions below: Maprovonsha172 03:05, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Am I the only one editing this page with any wikicourtesy?
Whoever added the Roman Catholicism bit showed his ineptness. It was placed under "Other explanations." What other explanation?
Also, this is more Inedia than it is Breatharian. The title of this page must change.
And if you're the same person that removed the basic facts placed after Ellen Greves' quote to balance the POV you had better justify that here. Maprovonsha172 03:12, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
The tutorial clearly states that we shouldn't avoid objective facts. Sometimes the facts sway to one POV, that's way it is. Some people are wrong and some are right. I'm not saying who is right in the article, I'm presenting objective facts that would lead any reasonable person to believe whatever the facts suggest. If you don't think their objective facts, you've yet to dispute them here. Who are 6,000 people? And why, if they have no problem going without food for years, did Ellen Greves nearly die of dehydration in the conditions she requested after 4 days? Leaving the quote at the end of the paragraph implies that she was saying is definitive. In fact, it was a lie she used to justify her failure. She was saving face with a line of bullshit you're defending.
If you're incapable of understanding why leaving that lie at the end of the paragraph at the end of the paragraph is POV, perhaps you should request a mediation as this is going nowhere. Of course I'm going to revert it, re-introducing objective facts, and thus balancing the POV. Maprovonsha172 19:51, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
Maybe a list of quotes? Probably belongs under her own article, though. — Omegatron 04:05, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
The fourth one is taken out of context. She says, "I asked for fresh air. Seventy per cent of my nutrients come from fresh air. I couldn’t even breathe." But the article goes on to say that she was moved to a mountainside retreat where could have plenty of fresh air, and she even said she would do fine there. A couple of days of fresh air later, she was shaking, her pupils were dilated, and she stopped the test. Maprovonsha172 17:55, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
In the first sentence of the second paragraph it says, "Breatharianism or inedia," implying that two distinctly different things are really different words for the same thing. Inedia is an alleged practice that has been believed about for a long time. Breatharianism is a New Age manifestation of this irrationalism. It involves a few charismatic leaders lying to people, and people suffering for that. Usually I can agree that even if what New Agers say is untrue, they may not necessarily be lying. But in this case there is no room for such apologetics. The two most famous leaders in the Breatharian movement, Wiley Brooks and Ellen Greves, have been caught ordering food. This shouldn't surprise anyone. This is all just nonsense, after all. But the article doesn't do a good job of sorting out fact from fiction. In an effort to balance the POV, some wikipedians try to defend the subject the article concerns. This is the most pleasant explanation I can imagine for this article. There is, however it came about, an undeniable pro-inediate claims POV which must be reconciled. The article should be re-written from an NPOV standpoint. Maprovonsha172 20:06, 9 October 2005 (UTC)
And all I want to do is report the facts. It is a fact that no self-proclaimed breatharian has done better than Ellen Greves did under the supervision of doctors. I think we can be certain that she was saving face when she said that 6,000 people in the world have no problem going without food. It is bullshit, as Princeton philosopher Harry Frankfurt defined it, it is a complete lack of respect for the truth in favor of some end (furthering the interests of the Republicans, the Democrats, Coca Cola or Jasmuheen herself). I agree that that shouldn't be in the article. We don't have to say that she was probably lying. We need only say that it's unclear who these 6,000 people are, if they exist at all. Also, we must make it clear that some people wonder if these 6,000 people can go without food just fine, why she had so much trouble (being the leader of the "movement") in the conditions she requested. That's not my opinion, it's backed up by reputable links which were deleted with the rest. Maprovonsha172 02:20, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
Even if Greves wasn't just making stuff up to save face, 6000 "followers" doesn't mean 6000 people that never eat. There are, unfortunately, millions of people that believe in ("follow") equally stupid things, but that doesn't imply that they can really cure cancer by touch, have a good reason to stay at home on Fridays the 13th, or even have any idea what they're talking about. Witness the perversion of Kabbalah and astrology into mere trends by the clueless (and no, I don't mean to dismiss the former out of hand, it's just the most obvious). What is your real problem with this, Map? Your misunderstanding (or bias, or whatever this is) is obvious from your first comment here. Neither the NPOV nor total rewrite templates belong here; it is abundantly clear that the subject matter itself is bullshit, but the article itself is well-written and doesn't try to pass off statements by proponents as truth. Same reason we don't just delete all articles pertaining to religion, junk science or urban myths, really. - Straker 06:38, 15 October 2005 (UTC)
"All animals need food, people are animals, so all people need food."
There have been rare occurences of "Bretharians". Let's say the ratio "people who claim they need food":"people who claim they don't need food" is for example 1:0,000000001.
How many animals do we know? Have we observed all individual animals? or at least 50%? 30%? Where do we think we know about animals, or more specific, mammals? Books, Zoos, from our pets, from Safaris, documentaries... Is this at least 20% of whole population? Think about it.
What do we know about the ones that we observed, preferably in their natural habitat (so no pets or animals bred for meat, cause we know that we also act diferently in forced or unnatural habitats.Or when under stress etc.)? We know that they eat food, not that they need it. Because every person on earth walks (with exception of disabled for whichever reason), but we don't need walking to survive, do we?
So... how do we know that there is not 1% of animals that don't eat or need food? So how can we say that in human population this is not possible in that 0,000001%?
From the perspective of energy: If we live, breathe, walk, run... we are moving our body. We are not moving it in constant speed and constant direction, so there are accelerations and decelerations, for which we need force. To produce force, we need energy.How do we (potentially) get energy? Air, sun (via skin and via heated bodies on earth), water, food, (prana). From the "transmition of energy" point of view and based on Newton's laws, the less we move, the less energy we need.
How do we know how much energy we need to survive? Statistics? How much energy is in our feces, when it goes out? How much percent was it used? What is energy? One kind of energy is stored in bonds between atoms in molecules. When we consume these molecules in shape of food, they are broken apart in our digestion system. If we don't chew food, stomach needs more energy to break the food into very small pieces. If we ate heavy food (saturated fats), body needs more energy to break them apart to Carbohydrates. If we eat food that changes the Ph value of blood, kidneys need more energy to equalize the Ph. In the end there are Carbohydrates. Which can be transformed into fats and stored under skin or they are source of energy when they pass the loungs.
I wonder how much energy and action is needed for the human body to process all the food and how much is net gain of it. Someone should do a research.
I am not convincing anyone. I am sceptical. Because if we accept that everything what majority of people do is "normal" (wanted) and essential for life, it may soon be normal and essential that we make war, that we take medicines on a daily basis, etc. All those things in my opinion, along with food, are a kind of drugs that make us happy for a short period of time, but in long-term destroy our body.
So i am saying that we cannot say that every human being needs food (as we know it) to survive for a long time.
Just a thought.
Aambro 08:23, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Your (I mean the majority of the people in this forum) approach to this topic is very unscientific because it is obviously coloured by prejudices. It does not fit your world view therefore all of them (breatharians) must lie. This was your conclusion already in the beginning and I am sure you found enough material to support your view scientifically. But there are also some resources which contradict your scenario and dont forget, it only needs one, because if one person is able to live without food, the possibility that there are more is increasing very fast.
Hira Manek has been observed by a team of scientists in Ahmedabad India for more than 200 hundert days. So there is a scientifically reported case of a man who does not eat. But this fact does not seem to count in the minds of the most of the people in this forum. Also Prahlad Jani or in the past Therese Neumann have been reported BY SCIENTISTS not to eat. But you prefer to write about the husband of Ellen Greve who has been in jail....
You say that human beings are animals, biologically this might be true but there is a fundamental difference between a human being and an animal: a human being has a mind and the mind is probably (I guess you agree) one of the most powerfull instruments in existence as we know it. There are much more possibilities and powers in the human mind as your kind of people tend to believe. Thousands of people have gone through the 21-day-process (7 days without drinking) without being harmed (this is a fact). According to science they should be all dead. Yes, three people died but how many people died of wrong food or too much food?
I have personally met Dr. Michael Werner, a german scientist who claims not to eat for 5 years. He started this experiment out of scientific curiosity but you don t want to take him serious, you don t want to examine people like him, like Manek, like Jani because if they don t lie your whole world view collapses.
I am sorry for my english, it is not my mothertongue, therefore I can t write as eloquent as I want to.
best regards
C.S.
What on earth is that bit at the end about sleepwalking all about? -- Gantlord 19:36, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
from the old jasmuheen article:
A German scientist has also now published a book saying that he has now not eaten for many years and shares how this is possible from a scientific view. Zinaida Baranova a Russian woman also supports this reality and has been without food and fluid for more than 5 years and Prahlad Jani in India has been food and fluid free for 68 years. Hira Ratan Manek has also stepped forward to share about feeding from micro food or solar energy and has done extensive medical and scientific testing. Work has begun with Jasmuheen and her political connections on introducing this alternate feeding source into third world countries.
Some other people we might research for inclusion here. — Omegatron 01:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
The paragraph describing Ellen Greves is still a contentious one. Recently, someone tried to end the paragraph differently, seeing what is obviously POV in the subject of the article's favor (as it usually is). Ending the paragraph with Greve's quote, her "challenge" (as it says) is blatent POV. We should say "It's unclear who these people are, if they exist." ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy). People need food to survive, you don't need a kindergarten education to know that. But even if we can't say, "if they exist," we should at least say, "It's unclear who these 6,000 people are." We are giving undue weight to Greve's claims. ( removed unsourced contentious material per policy). We can't come out and say it, but we can state the facts as they are, and give majority weight to majority opinion, going along with wikipedia guidelines. And the NPOV tutorial does say that we shouldn't avoid objective facts. Of course, that humans need to eat food is an objective fact, but, regardless, it is certainly an objective fact that it's unclear who these 6,000 people are (that could, unlike her, live without food). I'm putting up the simple and objective sentence, "It's unclear who these 6,000 people are." Maprov
How many times do we have to say it? — Omegatron 19:38, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
And yes, failing to point out this lack of evidence implies that the statement is true.
Earlier, before Omegatron's edit, it looked like it was her claim.
Now can we move on to Wiley Brooks? :-) — Omegatron 23:33, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
Sure thing. What do you want to say about him? Maprov 03:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
There's more info available on those sites. — Omegatron 20:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Please add a section on his $200,000.00 introductory course. If nothing else, it is quite amusing that he thinks he can find applicants. 70.21.216.114 02:34, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm adding a couple quotes from the doctor that supervised Ellen Greves test. They're quite releveant and are objective facts (that he said them), whether you agree with him and me or not. I'll add a link as well. Maprov
Does anyone have any specific POV issues that need to be sorted out before the NPOV template can be removed? If so, address them below. If no one comes forward, I'll remove the template in a few days. Maprov
I think the various concepts are close enough to be in the same article, but should be kept separate. The three deaths should be under Jasmuheen's heading, since they are directly related to her.
The other cases should be presented separately, under the more general term "inedia", which has been legend for much much longer. Here are some more from history:
I see you have been editing my capitalizations. Maybe I've misunderstood something, but I was under the impression that they were proper names/titles, like Baptist, Democrat, etc., ie the names for a group, hence should be capitalized. Please help me understand this matter. I've lived in Denmark for the last 23 years, so my once perfect American English is somewhat screwed up now.....;-) -- Fyslee 21:24, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Okay, what gives here? By grouping similar subjects together, I thought I was making the article more systematic, rather than the haphazard appearance it had. Maybe you have other plans. Please explain. I'm not trying to waste our time here. -- Fyslee 21:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
I have no qualm with the content on this site. I just stumbled upon it from "fakir." But I hate to see misunderstanding of logical syllogisms. Someone has misunderstood the implications of a valid syllogism. The opponent can easily retort that you have a premise wrong -- for instance that they believe that "all animals must eat, except human breatharians." No syllogism can solve this because it isn't a logic problem, but rather an empirical problem. If science relied upon syllogisms scientific advancement would come to a stand still, as empirical studies would be replaced with conventional assumptions as premises.Your logic is immaculate. But this isn't actually relavant to the discussion. Hope this disn't hurt anyone's feelings. Just wanted to clarify about the logic. Chris 15:25, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
Well anyway, you get the point. And thanks for taking it well. I meant no disrespect.
You don't understand the use of logic in science. Science cannot rely upon simple syllogisms. Syllogisms are theoretical devises in logic only. Science is empirical. You need to grasp the difference. For instance, a scientist could not crunch the data "All crows are black" into a syllogism, for it is impossible to observe all crows. Rather science deals entirely in cases, not in generalizations about "all possible instances." If they did, science would perish into dogmatism such as in the pre-Rennaissance. No one need feel defensive. This is just a fact of modern science. Please leave the use of logic to those more qualified to understand its implications, e.g. theoretical mathematics and computer applications. N Eti talk 22:35, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I see now you're right. Those quotes about the syllogism are very old. My apologies. N Eti talk 23:49, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Fellows, I don´t think we should include ten-day tests under this article. It is simply irrelevant to the matter, and not proof of anything. I myself had spent more than a week without eating (only drinking water), of course, loosing many kilos in the process. Anyone can do it for a few 4-5 days with a little will. -- Damifb 09:12, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
"...skeptics can also point to somnambulism as an alternative explanation for this purported phenomenon"
Sleepwalking is not an alternative explanation for living without food, since sleeping is not the same as eating. Therefore, unless someone objects, I will delete this section of the article shortly. David 19:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Damifb 20:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I edited the "another explanation" section to clarify why somnambulism is another explanation. It is not sleepwalking itself that is the explanation, but sleepeating. David 17:42, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
It was mentioned previously: There is a German scientist who's experience with living on light are published in a book book
Actually his book is not only about his own experience when he was object of a scientific study, but it contains also accounts of several other people who underwent the 21-day process proposed by Jasmuheen.
I'll try to get more information about it. I have the impression that it would be useful to add this. Unluckily I'm not yet very used to wikipedia editing, but I'll do my best.
Okko7 22:46, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
"Wiley Brooks' Breatharian Institute of America charges $10,000,000 US (minimum) to learn how to live without food."
Though I don't know what they charge, I seriously doubt the 10 million dollar figure is accurate.
Pitchclerk 02:53, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Met Brooks himself in Sturgis, SD this past week and the $10 million figure is the one he is quoting. A more accurate question is does he have any takers at this price?
Dinny 65.101.219.177 20:33, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
The section under "Another explanation" contained the following text: "an alternative explanation for the reported phenomenon." Previously, it read: "an alternative explanation for this purported phenomenon." Both seem fairly POV to me. Using google's define, I get that a "phenomenon" is "any state or process known through the senses rather than by intuition or reasoning; a remarkable development". Skeptics would want to modify away from that, believers would want to embrace it. The modifiers used show that conflict:
I am changing this, for the moment, to reflect that inedia may or may not be "true" (NPOV) to include "purported". To avoid possible bias with "phenomenon" to "ability". Mdbrownmsw 13:29, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please explain why the Category:African cuisine tag was removed? It seems clear to me that this is a culinary trend in Africa. Can you produce some evidence to the contrary? In the future, I would appreciate if you discussed changes like these on the talk page first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.151.30.14 ( talk) 01:02, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, Dr. K, but there is definitely truth to what the person above you is saying. He doesn't have his facts completely correct, but it is right for the most part. He's most likely citing information from the top of his head. In any case, "innocent until proven guilty" holds very true in this case. In fact, I think it's rather frightful that as a doctor you would prevent this sort of information from spreading so that more can understand the ways of culinary arts in Western Africa. Don't you want people to be free of bitter-tasting ignorance? One would hope so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.24.88.3 ( talk) 02:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
There's no need for a separate skepticism section. Information about Jasmuheen and her followers should remain in her own section. It's much more clear and easier to follow that way. (Although I can understand that enthusiasts might want it to be difficult to follow...) — Omegatron 14:15, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
Twenty-five million dollars sounds awfully much to join the American Breatharian Club or whatever it's called. Can that be right?-- JO 24 ( talk) 16:34, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
Seriously, this can't be real. The language used in the section about Wiley Brooks is so ridiculous and humours that I think it has to be some kind of joke or hoax. I wouldn't be suspired if James Randi himself was behind it, he does do those sort of things to show how stupid certain people are (see Project Alpha). I mean 25 million dollars to live on air, "base frequency" big macs, the Fifth Dimension and "Earth Prime", this has to be a satire. -- Hibernian ( talk) 16:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Shouldn't this page mention Ram Bahadur Bomjon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.112.172.233 ( talk) 00:14, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
In this section is states that there is no evidence to support the Breatharinisms claims. What about Prahlad Jani, is it not proven that he went without food or water for 10 days under strict observation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.72.104.115 ( talk) 16:17, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
Not eating for 10 days is not evidence that such a practice is sustainable. 124.171.176.108 ( talk) 14:58, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I reverted a hagiographical account based on a single reference by Daily Mail because it selectively quoted comments like: A neurophysician says Jani’s survival is miraculous. etc. without also mentioning the criticism by the Indian Rationalist Association which criticisises the whole operation as a probable fraud. The journalists comments were also cherry-picked without adding his last comment: After all, wouldn’t life be boring if everything was rational? which indicates his tongue-in-cheek view of the whole affair. The hospital investigation by the Indian authorities is not a scientific study and the quality of the conclusions of these scientists and officials as reported in a tabloid British newspaper cannot be taken to be academically valid. After these gentlemen publish their findings in a scientific journal then maybe we can take them seriously. And let us not forget. What we are trying here to do is write an encyclopedia. Extraordinary claims of this type need extraordinary proof. We cannot take seriously a few fawning comments by a couple of scientists and military officials without knowing the quality controls of their study and without them being peer-reviewed and published in a scientific journal and not in a British tabloid. Otherwise we try to create smoke and mirrors for our readers here. Dr.K. λogos πraxis 13:49, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
-begs comment: we are not here to arbitrate truth - only to document. Our job is not tell the reader what to think, but to provide the tools for apprehension. That said, we can avoid ascribing confabulated creditability to incredible claims by clearly stating that the nature of what we relay is as reported and not as observed. Extraordinary claims need context contrived to provide an unobstructed view for comprehensive apprehension by the reader - and nothing more. The measures taken by those such as the Indian Rationalist Association speak for themselves; a mention of those measures in the article before indicating the rejection of IRA participation in the study may be appropriate, so long as it is not through context drawing a conclusion that does not come from a quality cited source - no mater how logical or reasonable a conclusion. Frankly, I find the claims unscrupulous and intellectually repulsive; my only recourse is to find quality references and apply them in the article in a way that accurately represents their stature and proportion amongst all other applicable references of equal stature. Mavigogun ( talk) 15:14, 8 May 2010 (UTC)What we are trying here to do is write an encyclopedia. Extraordinary claims of this type need extraordinary proof. We cannot take seriously a few fawning comments by a couple of scientists and military officials without knowing the quality controls of their study and without them being peer-reviewed and published in a scientific journal and not in a British tabloid. Otherwise we try to create smoke and mirrors for our readers here.
Some blood parameters during his 2003 tests are published here: [15], they show signs of dehydratation. 109.43.248.4 ( talk) 14:27, 12 May 2010 (UTC)