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I quote, pretty much at random:
"They" here means Klinko and Indrani.
This one sentence says or implies:
Unsurprisingly, "Mary J. Blige Biography" is instead about Mary J. Blige and says nothing of the sort. Within that cited web page, the string "indrani" appears in the caption to one photo, that's all.
Look at the history of this article and you'll see a lot of earlier edits in which dubious factoids and bogus sourcing were painstakingly removed (with informative edit summaries). Now the same or similar junk is being put back. Why? -- Hoary ( talk) 00:33, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Because two weeks have gone by with no response either to this or to my question on the talk page of the one user who made all these changes, I've reverted the lot.
Of course I'd be delighted if some editor were to make careful additions to this article of carefully and honestly sourced material. Informative edit summaries for such edits would be welcome too. -- Hoary ( talk) 01:49, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
A lot of this is sourced to one piece in The Daily Beast. The latter is viewed without much enthusiasm at WP:RS/N:
There's a lot in the one piece, but (as of course is usual in journalism, let alone gossipy websites), it's not clear where much of it is from. Could the material not attached to "Indrani says" be what she also said, or from background material supplied by her, or perhaps just recycled from Wikipedia?
I note this remarkable trio of sentences:
When Indrani went to interview for an internship at a Toronto photo studio, the photographers decided she should be in front of the camera, not behind it. They recommended that she try modeling. She signed up with a modeling agency, and at age 14, found herself doing photo shoots around the world for magazines such as Glamour and Elle, and ad campaigns for companies including Benetton and Nescafé.
So when she was 14 (or younger), she went to interview for an internship at a Toronto photo studio. This would be remarkable, if true. But the writer doesn't comment on it (e.g. saying that our biographee was already a precocious photographer). So it looks screwy (to me), and the whole article starts to lose credibility. Or is my reaction unreasonable? -- Hoary ( talk) 01:11, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
PS In the penultimate sentence, by "the whole article" I mean "the whole 'Beast' article", not "the whole Wikipedia article". -- Hoary ( talk) 10:39, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
The following has been added, removed, added, and removed.
Markus + Indrani, globally esteemed celebrity and fashion photography and director duo who have captured many of today's most provocative pop culture legends...Glamorous, dynamic and teetering on the verge of reality and fantasy, the duo's ability to stand at the cross roads of pop culture and critical acclaim has made their work a salient point in the quickly evolving digital, cluttered media markets worldwide.<ref>http://lc.lincolncenter.org/shows/206524?show_date=2012-12-14%2008:00:00&hit=1</ref>
The user adding it has never explained it.
The user subtracting it has written:
I think I read that entrance was free. If so, the Lincoln Center (LC) might not have gained even if attendance had jumped tenfold thanks to this awestruck write-up. But even if it had charged and might have gained, it would seem a decent source to me.
It's true that WP:V says:
However, any conflict of interest here would only be fleeting. The LC doesn't seem to have had any particular [pecuniary] interest in enthusing over these two; it could just as well have plucked other photographers. And if Klinko & Indrani are soon forgotten, this won't harm the LC, which will have plenty of other photographers among whom to choose.
All in all I don't think it's improper to cite or even quote this.
(Propriety aside, I find it risible, with gush such as today's most provocative pop culture legends. But it seems that this kind of prose is endemic in talk about fashion.) -- Hoary ( talk) 13:30, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
In this edit, User:Karimkennedy removed {{peacock|date=January 2016}} and {{advert|date=September 2015}} (both recently added or readded by User:Mendaliv), without any edit summary. Any comment, Karimkennedy? -- Hoary ( talk) 13:12, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Here's what the article says about the Bowie album Heathen:
Here's what davidbowie.com has to say (on this page):
This sounds to me as if Klinko was the photographer and Indrani an assistant. Perhaps that's not so, and instead they did it together. What's extraordinarily hard to believe is that Indrani did it without Klinko. Why is there no mention of Klinko, Karimkennedy? -- Hoary ( talk) 06:44, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
1. The aforementioned David Bowie website http://www.davidbowie.com/news/markus-and-indrani-icons-book-48526 clearly states: "Photographers to the stars, Markus Klinko and Indrani, have collected together some of their best work for the recently published ICONS book... Markus and Indrani made the beautiful photographic images of David Bowie for 2002's Heathen cover and associated releases, working alongside Jonathan Barnbrook's innovative and stylish design creations to produce a brilliant campaign for the album."
2. The retrospective book of their work titled "ICONS by Markus + Indrani" Running Press © 2012, states on the cover: "Markus and Indrani, the leading duo of celebrity and fashion photography, have produced album covers for Beyonce, Mariah Carey, and David Bowie..." The book describes in detail how they worked together as creative partners from the beginning of their professional photography careers, and includes all the Bowie images by both photographers.
3. Elle.com "Photography duo Markus Klinko and Indrani are marking their 18th year as a visionary tour de force with the release of their first coffee table book, Icons: The Celebrity Exposures of Markus and Indrani, available November 13. http://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/news/a22349/markus-klinko-indrani-on-their-book-icons/ In Style http://www.instyle.com/news/inside-new-icons-book-beyonc-lady-gaga-and-more "The photography team of Markus Klinko and Indrani Pal-Chaudhuri know what it takes to make an icon--so they rounded up a retrospective of their most memorable images and put them in their new book "Icons..." Hollywood Reporter http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywood-photographers-markusindrani-release-icons-384363
4. http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/iconic-celebrity-photos-captured-by-duo/15/ "Iconic celebrity photos captured by duo" includes these Bowie photos.
5. http://www.popphoto.com/how-to/2009/12/behind-scenes-double-exposure
6. The reputable German news organization 20 Minuten article on Bowie's death asks Indrani specifically about "Your discovery is none other than David Bowie...He...was her mentor." Indrani replies : "He is responsible for ensuring that I was a photographer...He launched my career" http://www.20min.ch/people/international/story/-Ich-werde-seine-Anrufe-sehr-vermissen--18680162 Karimkennedy ( talk) 20:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC) Karimkennedy ( talk) 20:07, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
The article tells us:
The source this cites doesn't even mention The Breakthrough. Of the other two, it says that:
Emphasis added. Yes, the source cited says that Klinko created them.
Again, the Wikipedia article claims that Klinko and Indrani "created award-winning covers" for these three, sourcing this to a page at artphotoexpo.com. The latter page doesn't include the string "prize". As for the string "award", it appears once, within:
No mention there of what Klinko won the awards for.
How many other fictions does this Wikipedia article present? -- Hoary ( talk) 13:30, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Try this:
Emphasis added. The cited source makes it very clear that this was not just her work but instead Klinko's and her work.
Increasingly, I get the impression that this Wikipedia article is written to aggrandize Pal-Chaudhuri at the expense of Klinko. Do you get the same impression, Karimkennedy and Mendaliv? -- Hoary ( talk) 09:55, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
I quote, pretty much at random:
"They" here means Klinko and Indrani.
This one sentence says or implies:
Unsurprisingly, "Mary J. Blige Biography" is instead about Mary J. Blige and says nothing of the sort. Within that cited web page, the string "indrani" appears in the caption to one photo, that's all.
Look at the history of this article and you'll see a lot of earlier edits in which dubious factoids and bogus sourcing were painstakingly removed (with informative edit summaries). Now the same or similar junk is being put back. Why? -- Hoary ( talk) 00:33, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Because two weeks have gone by with no response either to this or to my question on the talk page of the one user who made all these changes, I've reverted the lot.
Of course I'd be delighted if some editor were to make careful additions to this article of carefully and honestly sourced material. Informative edit summaries for such edits would be welcome too. -- Hoary ( talk) 01:49, 16 October 2013 (UTC)
A lot of this is sourced to one piece in The Daily Beast. The latter is viewed without much enthusiasm at WP:RS/N:
There's a lot in the one piece, but (as of course is usual in journalism, let alone gossipy websites), it's not clear where much of it is from. Could the material not attached to "Indrani says" be what she also said, or from background material supplied by her, or perhaps just recycled from Wikipedia?
I note this remarkable trio of sentences:
When Indrani went to interview for an internship at a Toronto photo studio, the photographers decided she should be in front of the camera, not behind it. They recommended that she try modeling. She signed up with a modeling agency, and at age 14, found herself doing photo shoots around the world for magazines such as Glamour and Elle, and ad campaigns for companies including Benetton and Nescafé.
So when she was 14 (or younger), she went to interview for an internship at a Toronto photo studio. This would be remarkable, if true. But the writer doesn't comment on it (e.g. saying that our biographee was already a precocious photographer). So it looks screwy (to me), and the whole article starts to lose credibility. Or is my reaction unreasonable? -- Hoary ( talk) 01:11, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
PS In the penultimate sentence, by "the whole article" I mean "the whole 'Beast' article", not "the whole Wikipedia article". -- Hoary ( talk) 10:39, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
The following has been added, removed, added, and removed.
Markus + Indrani, globally esteemed celebrity and fashion photography and director duo who have captured many of today's most provocative pop culture legends...Glamorous, dynamic and teetering on the verge of reality and fantasy, the duo's ability to stand at the cross roads of pop culture and critical acclaim has made their work a salient point in the quickly evolving digital, cluttered media markets worldwide.<ref>http://lc.lincolncenter.org/shows/206524?show_date=2012-12-14%2008:00:00&hit=1</ref>
The user adding it has never explained it.
The user subtracting it has written:
I think I read that entrance was free. If so, the Lincoln Center (LC) might not have gained even if attendance had jumped tenfold thanks to this awestruck write-up. But even if it had charged and might have gained, it would seem a decent source to me.
It's true that WP:V says:
However, any conflict of interest here would only be fleeting. The LC doesn't seem to have had any particular [pecuniary] interest in enthusing over these two; it could just as well have plucked other photographers. And if Klinko & Indrani are soon forgotten, this won't harm the LC, which will have plenty of other photographers among whom to choose.
All in all I don't think it's improper to cite or even quote this.
(Propriety aside, I find it risible, with gush such as today's most provocative pop culture legends. But it seems that this kind of prose is endemic in talk about fashion.) -- Hoary ( talk) 13:30, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
In this edit, User:Karimkennedy removed {{peacock|date=January 2016}} and {{advert|date=September 2015}} (both recently added or readded by User:Mendaliv), without any edit summary. Any comment, Karimkennedy? -- Hoary ( talk) 13:12, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Here's what the article says about the Bowie album Heathen:
Here's what davidbowie.com has to say (on this page):
This sounds to me as if Klinko was the photographer and Indrani an assistant. Perhaps that's not so, and instead they did it together. What's extraordinarily hard to believe is that Indrani did it without Klinko. Why is there no mention of Klinko, Karimkennedy? -- Hoary ( talk) 06:44, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
1. The aforementioned David Bowie website http://www.davidbowie.com/news/markus-and-indrani-icons-book-48526 clearly states: "Photographers to the stars, Markus Klinko and Indrani, have collected together some of their best work for the recently published ICONS book... Markus and Indrani made the beautiful photographic images of David Bowie for 2002's Heathen cover and associated releases, working alongside Jonathan Barnbrook's innovative and stylish design creations to produce a brilliant campaign for the album."
2. The retrospective book of their work titled "ICONS by Markus + Indrani" Running Press © 2012, states on the cover: "Markus and Indrani, the leading duo of celebrity and fashion photography, have produced album covers for Beyonce, Mariah Carey, and David Bowie..." The book describes in detail how they worked together as creative partners from the beginning of their professional photography careers, and includes all the Bowie images by both photographers.
3. Elle.com "Photography duo Markus Klinko and Indrani are marking their 18th year as a visionary tour de force with the release of their first coffee table book, Icons: The Celebrity Exposures of Markus and Indrani, available November 13. http://www.elle.com/culture/celebrities/news/a22349/markus-klinko-indrani-on-their-book-icons/ In Style http://www.instyle.com/news/inside-new-icons-book-beyonc-lady-gaga-and-more "The photography team of Markus Klinko and Indrani Pal-Chaudhuri know what it takes to make an icon--so they rounded up a retrospective of their most memorable images and put them in their new book "Icons..." Hollywood Reporter http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hollywood-photographers-markusindrani-release-icons-384363
4. http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/iconic-celebrity-photos-captured-by-duo/15/ "Iconic celebrity photos captured by duo" includes these Bowie photos.
5. http://www.popphoto.com/how-to/2009/12/behind-scenes-double-exposure
6. The reputable German news organization 20 Minuten article on Bowie's death asks Indrani specifically about "Your discovery is none other than David Bowie...He...was her mentor." Indrani replies : "He is responsible for ensuring that I was a photographer...He launched my career" http://www.20min.ch/people/international/story/-Ich-werde-seine-Anrufe-sehr-vermissen--18680162 Karimkennedy ( talk) 20:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC) Karimkennedy ( talk) 20:07, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
The article tells us:
The source this cites doesn't even mention The Breakthrough. Of the other two, it says that:
Emphasis added. Yes, the source cited says that Klinko created them.
Again, the Wikipedia article claims that Klinko and Indrani "created award-winning covers" for these three, sourcing this to a page at artphotoexpo.com. The latter page doesn't include the string "prize". As for the string "award", it appears once, within:
No mention there of what Klinko won the awards for.
How many other fictions does this Wikipedia article present? -- Hoary ( talk) 13:30, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
Try this:
Emphasis added. The cited source makes it very clear that this was not just her work but instead Klinko's and her work.
Increasingly, I get the impression that this Wikipedia article is written to aggrandize Pal-Chaudhuri at the expense of Klinko. Do you get the same impression, Karimkennedy and Mendaliv? -- Hoary ( talk) 09:55, 6 February 2016 (UTC)