![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The points that are mentioned in the Career 360 paragraph within the Controversy section are repeats of the points mentioned within the article. My suggestion:
▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 05:18, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 16:17, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Per Wifione's comments above, I'd like to see if we can reach consensus on using citation templates in this article. I don't really care which templates are used, just that we don't have bare URLs. Wifione, if I understand you correctly, you do not believe that the use of any citation templates in this article is appropriate, and that you would prefer that all references be bare URLs as you have provided. Or is your position something different? Right now, because of the excessive controversy on this article, it appears that bare URLs are used to disguise where information comes from. I'm sure that's not anyone's intent, but it has the effect of making it more difficult to determine what is or is not a reliable source. What do other editors think? Would the use of citation templates be beneficial in this article? WeisheitSuchen ( talk) 12:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
A few more points related to this discussion:
Wifione pointed out that JAM as well as Careers360 have disclaimers on their websites saying things like the publication "does not endorse or subscribe to the suggestions, advice and views of the authors of the content". Wifione had also brought this up as a point when arguing against Careers360 being WP:RS. I'd just like to point out that it is standard boilerplate legalese lingo adopted by almost every media entity in India. For example,
TimesofIndia says No representations, warranties or guarantees whatsoever are made by TIL as to the (a) accuracy, adequacy, reliability, completeness, suitability or applicability of the information to a particular situation.
Rediff says - REDIFF .COM AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, LACK OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS AND ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED WITHIN THE REDIFF SITES/SERVICES FOR ANY PURPOSE.
NDTV says - Neither the Company, its affiliates nor any of their respective employees, agents, third party content providers or licensors warrant that NDTV Sites will be uninterrupted or error free; nor do they make any warranty as to the results that may be obtained from use of NDTV Sites, or as to the accuracy, reliability or content of any information, service, or merchandise provided through NDTV Sites. In general, any media entity has such CYA lingo.
So I don't see the point behind this sudden zeal to replace the names of media entities with writers, when it comes to JAM and Careers360.
Makrandjoshi (
talk)
00:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
I was going through the article history, this removes quite a bit of information, but the text was not moved to footnotes. Ideally we need to use ref group="n" and use the ref group later using, ref|group=n template. ( for ex see few FAs ) The point was to move them to footnote not completely remove it. Similarly the current version of "Claims in IIPM's Advertisements" with this is not a summary, since lot of key points still need to be added. Will start working on it as time permits, just wanted to bring this to the purview of other editors as well. -- TheMandarin ( talk) 14:27, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
(Wikipedia:AVOID#Controversy_and_scandal is now a redirect to Wikipedia:Manual_of_style/Words_to_watch. The version of Wikipedia:AVOID#Controversy_and_scandal cited by Wifione in the section heading is here. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk · contribs · email) 07:00, 27 December 2014 (UTC))
I notice that the word controversy has been used in the lead section to combine tax issues, accreditation issues, advertising issues, and more. Can we have a link that says that all these (or any of these) are actual 'controveries'? We have to be careful in not using the word 'Controversy' unless a link directly supports the direct connection between an incident and the word 'controversy'. I suggest removal of the term itself from wherever it is mentioned within the article, unless links can be provided directly connecting the word 'controversy' and various points mentioned under it. ▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 17:12, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Amatulic. There are ample sources to indicate controversies/scandals/issues etc. There is nothing in WP to suggest that the precise word "controversy" should be mentioned. But for what it's worth, I have also provided a link to a Spiegel article saying that IIPM is a controversial school and has been involved in controversies. Regardless, as long as wifione is not contesting that controversies/scandals/issues exist, and agrees with cites for them, I don't get the point behind arguing against the word. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 14:43, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Investigations seems to accurately portray the MRTPC probe and Tax issues situations. -- NeilN talk to me 04:17, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
We need to keep in mined that this is a wiki article, not a brochure for IIPM. Some language here though, is very brochure-ish. For instance, the "beyond the principles" courses taught, and name-dropping of Nike and such. Such information must be kept to its essentials, and embellishment or name-dropping should be avoided. I have made some changes in the language accordingly. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 12:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello all. I have raised a COI request at the noticeboard here. I have left a message on wifione's talk page to respond. Posting this here for the benefit of Amatulic, WS, and other editors who have expressed similar concerns about conflict of interest. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 13:20, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I have raised a request at RSN about the contentious Maheshwar Peri article. Wifione seems to think that it is "self-published" because Peri is the publisher of Outlook. I disagree, as do other editors, from the discussion above. So I have posted it on RSN to see what others think. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 14:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
User Makrandjoshi has recently reverted back the Controversy section disregarding discussions that were undertaken in the page. In good faith (without reverting Makrandjoshi's undiscussed change), I again suggest that we discuss the Controversy section's space and balance npov issue.
I think the names being listed under notable alumni merits a major rethink. Being hired by some company or being mentioned in some newsletter does not make it notable even if a mainstream newspaper is a source of the information. Look at the kind of people usually mentioned in alumni lists e.g. List_of_Brigham_Young_University_alumni or Indian_Institute_of_Technology_Kharagpur#Alumni_Initiatives and then see who is listed for IIPM and the difference in notability becomes blindingly obvious. I think we should delete all those names. Opinions? Makrandjoshi ( talk) 16:24, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Kindly do not remove the npov tag with a statement that discussions have winded up. If you see just one section above, we're still waiting to add relevant sections in the main article to balance out the size of the overall article. Thanks ▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 05:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I have now removed the tag. This is getting too much, I think. A tag is being placed, but not more discussions or action. POV forking does not apply. All information is validly cited. And considering that new controversies keep erupting every so often (only today I added informaiton about the Uttarakhand branch being threatened with closure), the length appropriately reflects reality. As far asI see, only one person, wifione, seems to think it is too long, and again, it seems like a subjective opinions. All the info is validly cited, given relevant information. There are no opinions there. And for a couple of months now, wifione has been told to add other info if he/she wants. Tags should not be used as tools for fighting and arguing. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 12:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Careers 360 has another investigative piece, in which they have reproduced the full letter from NVAO in belgium, complete with the sender's name, the logo of the organization etc. The article is
here. There are two things of note which I am editing the article to incorporate
According to WP:UNIGUIDE (in an addition made by Wifione), we should "Give one factual statement summarizing overall "most recent" rankings obtained in key surveys." Wifione, can you please clarify why you believe this does not mean that you should have more than one ranking or award in the lead, as you stated in this edit summary? Your guideline seems pretty explicit to me. WeisheitSuchen ( talk) 12:48, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Can we please delete all the references to rankings in this article? Even iipm admits that these "Best Bschools list" are merely based on the perception of the magazine publishers and thus not verifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.2.144 ( talk) 06:28, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
I have made some edits.
Makrandjoshi ( talk) 12:53, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi Amatulic, you reverted around eight reliable sources I had added saying they primarily represented editorial opinion pieces. Leave the CNN link (which is more a listing of Asian Executive Education offering institutions, including IIPM, than a news article), others are sure and pure top grade articles. Noting down the details here for your reference >> CNN news (is a listing - not an oped, but yes, a listing only), Pioneer article (is from their section Avenues, which comes I guess every Monday, and contains many articles by experienced Pioneer journalists; the article is not from their Op-Ed section, which goes by the name Editorial - I've double checked every detail since your message), HT Syndication archive link (is an archive of the Pioneer Link maintained by Hindustan Times, another Reliable Source for us), Indian Express link (some years old, yet an article by a journalist only, despite the very flowery language being used), IIPMGota link (original source, but as it does not include any extraordinary claims, have attributed it to IIPM and placed it), NUS link (again, a university link, but contains straightforward information, so quoted it), an African university link (same concept as the previous link; just provided for support reference on Gota), Highbeam PTI archived link (it's the archive of the earlier link in the tax part which had become dead a few months back). Please do mention any clarifications you might require; I'll try my best to provide them. Warm regards. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ ―Œ ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣ 03:33, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
First, the UGC ad
It appeared in the Times of India on August 23:
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=CAP/2010/08/23/9/Img/Ad0090800.png
The date is in the newspaper itself. 2007 is part of the number of the advertisement. You can see the notice here:
Why would the UGC issue a 2007 notice in 2010?
The reason why the UGS seems to have been compelled to give this notice is for reasons such as the following:
http://twitpic.com/2fkopn/full
Now, you could argue that the Twitpic is not an autheticated account, but that is the trouble with banner advertising. They would never have a static URL.
I hope you would be able to see the problem that the UGC and some of the past students of IIPM are fighting: despite warnings, IIPM blatantly continues to advertise falsely and that is why such ads by UGC are required. I hope the above will be able to satisfy you that this is absolutely PERTINENT news worthy of being mentioned about IIPM as anyone who reads the entry should know what the government's regulatory body has to say about IIPM
Once I have your approval to re-insert the above detail in the entry, I will come back and address some of the other issues. StudentForLifeTime ( talk) 18:18, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I invite other editors of this page to kindly comment on ways to delete repetitive information within the article, mainly relating to two entities:
If you all agree, this weekend I could upload a draft edit of the article at Talk:Indian Institute of Planning and Management/draft where I would upload a new version of the article sans the repetitive information. You all could add/delete information on the same and once we reach consensus, we could upload that document. If any of you wish to take the lead in creating this draft document, please do go ahead. Alternatively, if you feel the creation of the draft might be cumbersome, we could discuss the deletion issues right here in this section of discussions. Waiting for your responses before uploading the updated draft.(Currently, I've uploaded the original document as it is on the main page) Thanks and regards. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ ―Œ ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣ 07:25, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Added following link to clarify that MSU (Manonmaniam Sundaranar University) reportedly only offers distance education MBA degrees and not full time MBA degrees " http://www.indianexpress.com/news/iipm-now-mumbai-students-demand-refund-mns-joins-in/755077/0" [17]
J mareeswaran ( talk) 15:40, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
The "controversies" section has been tagged for non-neutrality for over one year. What are the exact concerns here? As I see, the main problem is that of undue weight -- entire sections have been devoted to stories (such as JAM mag), which should be accommodated in a bullet point containing 2-3 sentences. Such sections should be trimmed and the neutrality tag should be removed. utcursch | talk 07:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i want to edit the informations given Indian Institute of planning and Management wikipedia, because there are some wrong and outdated informations given there which might confuse and distract the readers to get a clear picture about the institute
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i want to edit few things in the controversy section because i think the controversies have been written down with a biased perspective. IIPM never claimed itself to affilated to AICTE or UGC , it was just said that the institute's tie up with MS university and Gulbarga University have enabled them to offer a course of BBA & MBA which are AICTE/UGC approved , by their OUTREACH programe.
Joy-123 ( talk) 16:15, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
It is hereby informed to the public at large and students that Indian Institute of Planning and Management (IIPM) is not a University within the meaning of Section 2(f) of the University Grants Commission Act, 1956. Further, as per Section 22 of the University Grants Commission Act, 1956, the Indian Institute of Planning and Management (IIPM) does not have right of conferring or granting degrees as specified by the University Grants Commission under Section 22(3) of the University Grants Commission Act. It is further clarified for information that Indian Institute of Planning and Management is neither entitle to award MBA/BBA/BCA degree nor it is recognized by UGC, MHRD and AICTE.
The public and students are also hereby informed that the universities established either by
a Central Act or a State Act or an Institution deemed to the university under Section 3 of the University Grants Commission Act can confer or grant only those degrees which are specified by the University Grants Commission under Section 22(3) of the University Grants Commission Act, 1956. A list of degrees specified by the University Grants Commission is available on the University Grants Commission website www.ugc.ac.in for information of all concerned.
(Niloufer Adil Kazmi) Secretary
You can check on this link — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nacx08 ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi guys, I’ve finally done some edits and have placed them in the test page for your viewing and comments. A few changes that I have attempted are listed below. Do please me what you think of them. Anything and everything can be changed so please don’t think the edit I’ve placed is a permanent view. This might seem funny but let’s try and get this to a good article status if possible. The following are some key changes:
If there’s anything else that catches your eyes, please do tell. Like I mentioned, the attempt is to make it encyclopedic. Thanks. Wifione Message 11:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
As for the accreditation, if I read the section correction this is not an accredited institution. That is usually stated in the lead. Offering degree programs that are accredited through another institution is not accreditation. Again, I've seen too many promotional claims of this sort for borderline institutions. I don't personally know about this school though, and I am a little puzzled: for what reason does it not have accreditation, especially if it is in fact the highest ranking business school in India? That would seem to indicate a truly exceptional situation which needs some explanation. DGG ( talk ) 03:51, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I apologize for taking so long to get back to this. I think your wording is rather clever, but still needs some explanation and qualification. I realize the Indian higher education system is sui generis. If the accreditation is this complicated, and the term does not really apply to India in the same sense as elsewhere, it can not be called "accredited" in the ordinary sense in the infobox, but neither need it be called unaccredited there. (As analogies, I am thinking of the early 20th century, when any institution could say its graduates would be accredited thru the University of London, if they took its external degree examination. Or the situation until very recently, when the University of Wales would provide accreditation to "affiliated" institutions in various countries in such an indiscriminate manner that the University was closed down by the UK government.)
If programs, not colleges, are accredited, what exactly is the school's certificate program? apparently it is the final offering of the school itself under its own authority, which all its graduates get, and the "Academics" section needs a little rewriting to make that clear.; (the term is more often used for a preparatory program, leading to a non-professional qualification, or sometimes for admission into a regular academic program for further study.)
Based on the references, the extent to which the affiliations are real is disputed in many cases. Some are clearly not: that a one-time course is offered in association is not an affiliation. Based on the references, the extent to which an institute's not having its own accreditation is respectable is also disputed. "Voluntary" does not always mean optional. No school in the US actually need be accredited either in the literal sense (they generally need at least a business license, which some try to pass off as accreditation) but unless it is a small religious college that does not accept government aid, it can in practice not operate otherwise within the regular education system. In the US too, those that are unaccredited also resort to the practice of being associated in some manner with regular colleges for degree purposes, and their advertisements can be quite equivocal about the nature of this--the problem is by no means limited to India. The examples you give of accepted high quality schools are all business schools--are there others fields also? It is possible that what businesses consider sufficiently formal education is different from what the educational system considers--this is, after all, a field where a formal degree in the subject is not required for a successful career, though most people pursue it in the hope of improving their initial employment prospects.
The placements are also disputed. A college's word on its own placements--in any country--is usually considered a self-serving statement. (Consider current cases about US law schools) That 100% of the graduates of any institution find professional places in the field is an extraordinary statement (with the exception of state-run schools feeding directly into their civil or military service, like some in France, or most military academies), and consequently needs extraordinarily strong evidence. The listings of firms where its graduates work is promotional: almost any college has some graduates working in very large firms in some capacity. I realize the school is too new for a listing of notable graduates in the sense of having a Wikipedia article.
As for references, our practice is to consider the judgment of a trial court merely as a primary source to be quoted as such, not as settling the facts of the matter.I would like more references from outside India, especially references from outside India commenting on the court case. This is not unreasonable, as the school says it is an internationally recognized institution.
I have done some preliminary editing and will do more. But I have the problem that if I say the article is OK, since I work extensively in this topic area, this seems to be taken here as some sort of certification, and I do not take that responsibility for articles I did not write myself. I'm trying to figure out what to say, when I do edit. I know we're not supposed to be investigative reporters, but for some articles there seems to be little alternative. DGG ( talk ) 17:25, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
IIPM Logo|IIPM Logo Adglobal360im ( talk) 13:33, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
Added based on news articles in Mint and Medianama. See citation for verification.-- Nizil ( talk) 20:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
I added verifiability template as I found that some links mentioned in citation do not leads to verifiable source or even reliable sources. These citations support some claims in Controversy section, so need careful verification. Please removed unreferenced, poorly referenced, unreliable source ref'ed claims. -- Nizil ( talk) 20:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
This article (and the sister article Indian Institute of Planning and Management advertising and blogging controversy devote a lot of space to an incident which may have been a major event at the time, but may not justify that much space now. I am not suggesting the incident should be excised, but general practice, which this partially follows, is to have an article on the incident, and then a brief summary in the main article. While this format is roughly followed, the coverage in this article would be more properly covered by a paragraph or two.
Further, the incident is "supported" by link which are no longer working. While it is not required that links be to online material, it is troubling that such strong wording is supported by citations to material that cannot easily be verified.
I'd like us to examine whether there are live replacements for the multiple dead links, or alternative citations.
I'd also like to discuss whether this six year old incident can be better summarized.
Footnotes 65 and 83 were already marked as dead links when I first read this. I added templates to Footnotes 85 and 94 -- SPhilbrick (Talk) 13:13, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
In this section it is mentioned that most if its teaching staff is its own MBA students. Since IIPM doesn't award MBA degree, will it be correct to call them MBA. Vigyani ( talk) 07:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
I removed this from "Job placement" because it reads like a Laundry list of facts which i don't think help the article.
In 2007, according to IIPM's placement office, its students were placed in over 200 companies. [1] In 2008, IIPM placed 2,670 students through campus placements, including 165 international placements. [2]
In October 2005, the UGC (and later the AICTE ) raised objections about IIPM's technical degrees. The institute clarified that it had never offered MBA or BBA degrees; these were offered by International Management Institute Belgium (IMI) – a not-for-profit business school. [3]
<ref>
tag has too many names (see the
help page).
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12]
[13]
[14]
[15]
[16]
[17]References
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Cheers, Baffle gab1978 ( talk) 00:09, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Section copied from article:
IIPM has seven international placement offices.[25][68][69] According to the institute, 70 percent of its students choose the placement process, and that almost all of these students get jobs through it.[42] In 2005, IIPM Delhi and Mumbai's average placement salary was 3.8 lakh (US$7,000) for domestic placements and US$30,000 for international placements.[70] ICICI was the biggest recruiter and IBM was the 'Star recruiter" .[70] According to Business Standard, the IIPM invites companies to its campus and offers placements at its sister concern, Planman Consulting.[71] Since 2006, IIPM claims a 100% consistent placement record.[72] In June 2009, Mail Today reported that the institute got jobs for 2,300 out of 4,000 (How 100% as claimed above?) students with 750 companies participating, and 46 international placements, with the results of 100 campus interviews still being awaited. The average annual pay package was INR 420,000, which was reported to be a good figure given the recession.[73] According to the institute, financial service companies and small and medium enterprises participated in placements in 2009.[74] In June 2010, The Hindu reported that more than 10,000 IIPM students had been placed in the last five years in around 1,500 companies; with more than 250 students getting international placements in the previous three years. IIPM Delhi got the highest number of global placements in India for 2008 (165 students placed globally) and 2009 (55 students). Overall, the highest annual package received by an IIPM student was 20 lakh (US$37,000), with an average package of 4.63 lakh (US$8,500). According to IIPM, in 2009, major international companies participated in IIPM placements(?).[72][75] In 2011, 2400 students were placed by IIPM. According to the institute, the average annual salary was 5.2 lakh (US$9,500) and the maximum salary in international placements was 27.5 lakh (US$50,000) [76]
Hi, I have moved the controversies sections as it is much more important and useful to the reader than past rankings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lookinhotbra ( talk • contribs) 15:03, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Why is there such a detailed section for "Rankings"? Can't it be summarized into a smaller text that summarizes the whole deal? Like in case of IIMs? Nadesai ( talk) 10:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Clearly not warranted at the present time. Are there any other major article issues that need to be addressed? If so, perhaps someone can summarize them below. Coretheapple ( talk) 02:35, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The points that are mentioned in the Career 360 paragraph within the Controversy section are repeats of the points mentioned within the article. My suggestion:
▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 05:18, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 16:17, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
Per Wifione's comments above, I'd like to see if we can reach consensus on using citation templates in this article. I don't really care which templates are used, just that we don't have bare URLs. Wifione, if I understand you correctly, you do not believe that the use of any citation templates in this article is appropriate, and that you would prefer that all references be bare URLs as you have provided. Or is your position something different? Right now, because of the excessive controversy on this article, it appears that bare URLs are used to disguise where information comes from. I'm sure that's not anyone's intent, but it has the effect of making it more difficult to determine what is or is not a reliable source. What do other editors think? Would the use of citation templates be beneficial in this article? WeisheitSuchen ( talk) 12:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
A few more points related to this discussion:
Wifione pointed out that JAM as well as Careers360 have disclaimers on their websites saying things like the publication "does not endorse or subscribe to the suggestions, advice and views of the authors of the content". Wifione had also brought this up as a point when arguing against Careers360 being WP:RS. I'd just like to point out that it is standard boilerplate legalese lingo adopted by almost every media entity in India. For example,
TimesofIndia says No representations, warranties or guarantees whatsoever are made by TIL as to the (a) accuracy, adequacy, reliability, completeness, suitability or applicability of the information to a particular situation.
Rediff says - REDIFF .COM AND/OR ITS RESPECTIVE SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, LACK OF VIRUSES OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS AND ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED WITHIN THE REDIFF SITES/SERVICES FOR ANY PURPOSE.
NDTV says - Neither the Company, its affiliates nor any of their respective employees, agents, third party content providers or licensors warrant that NDTV Sites will be uninterrupted or error free; nor do they make any warranty as to the results that may be obtained from use of NDTV Sites, or as to the accuracy, reliability or content of any information, service, or merchandise provided through NDTV Sites. In general, any media entity has such CYA lingo.
So I don't see the point behind this sudden zeal to replace the names of media entities with writers, when it comes to JAM and Careers360.
Makrandjoshi (
talk)
00:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
I was going through the article history, this removes quite a bit of information, but the text was not moved to footnotes. Ideally we need to use ref group="n" and use the ref group later using, ref|group=n template. ( for ex see few FAs ) The point was to move them to footnote not completely remove it. Similarly the current version of "Claims in IIPM's Advertisements" with this is not a summary, since lot of key points still need to be added. Will start working on it as time permits, just wanted to bring this to the purview of other editors as well. -- TheMandarin ( talk) 14:27, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
(Wikipedia:AVOID#Controversy_and_scandal is now a redirect to Wikipedia:Manual_of_style/Words_to_watch. The version of Wikipedia:AVOID#Controversy_and_scandal cited by Wifione in the section heading is here. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk · contribs · email) 07:00, 27 December 2014 (UTC))
I notice that the word controversy has been used in the lead section to combine tax issues, accreditation issues, advertising issues, and more. Can we have a link that says that all these (or any of these) are actual 'controveries'? We have to be careful in not using the word 'Controversy' unless a link directly supports the direct connection between an incident and the word 'controversy'. I suggest removal of the term itself from wherever it is mentioned within the article, unless links can be provided directly connecting the word 'controversy' and various points mentioned under it. ▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 17:12, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Amatulic. There are ample sources to indicate controversies/scandals/issues etc. There is nothing in WP to suggest that the precise word "controversy" should be mentioned. But for what it's worth, I have also provided a link to a Spiegel article saying that IIPM is a controversial school and has been involved in controversies. Regardless, as long as wifione is not contesting that controversies/scandals/issues exist, and agrees with cites for them, I don't get the point behind arguing against the word. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 14:43, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
Investigations seems to accurately portray the MRTPC probe and Tax issues situations. -- NeilN talk to me 04:17, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
We need to keep in mined that this is a wiki article, not a brochure for IIPM. Some language here though, is very brochure-ish. For instance, the "beyond the principles" courses taught, and name-dropping of Nike and such. Such information must be kept to its essentials, and embellishment or name-dropping should be avoided. I have made some changes in the language accordingly. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 12:24, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
Hello all. I have raised a COI request at the noticeboard here. I have left a message on wifione's talk page to respond. Posting this here for the benefit of Amatulic, WS, and other editors who have expressed similar concerns about conflict of interest. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 13:20, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
I have raised a request at RSN about the contentious Maheshwar Peri article. Wifione seems to think that it is "self-published" because Peri is the publisher of Outlook. I disagree, as do other editors, from the discussion above. So I have posted it on RSN to see what others think. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 14:22, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
User Makrandjoshi has recently reverted back the Controversy section disregarding discussions that were undertaken in the page. In good faith (without reverting Makrandjoshi's undiscussed change), I again suggest that we discuss the Controversy section's space and balance npov issue.
I think the names being listed under notable alumni merits a major rethink. Being hired by some company or being mentioned in some newsletter does not make it notable even if a mainstream newspaper is a source of the information. Look at the kind of people usually mentioned in alumni lists e.g. List_of_Brigham_Young_University_alumni or Indian_Institute_of_Technology_Kharagpur#Alumni_Initiatives and then see who is listed for IIPM and the difference in notability becomes blindingly obvious. I think we should delete all those names. Opinions? Makrandjoshi ( talk) 16:24, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Kindly do not remove the npov tag with a statement that discussions have winded up. If you see just one section above, we're still waiting to add relevant sections in the main article to balance out the size of the overall article. Thanks ▒ Wirεłεşş ▒ Fidεłitұ ▒ Ćłâşş ▒ Θnε ▒ ―Œ ♣Łεâvε Ξ мεşşâgε♣ 05:54, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
I have now removed the tag. This is getting too much, I think. A tag is being placed, but not more discussions or action. POV forking does not apply. All information is validly cited. And considering that new controversies keep erupting every so often (only today I added informaiton about the Uttarakhand branch being threatened with closure), the length appropriately reflects reality. As far asI see, only one person, wifione, seems to think it is too long, and again, it seems like a subjective opinions. All the info is validly cited, given relevant information. There are no opinions there. And for a couple of months now, wifione has been told to add other info if he/she wants. Tags should not be used as tools for fighting and arguing. Makrandjoshi ( talk) 12:46, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Careers 360 has another investigative piece, in which they have reproduced the full letter from NVAO in belgium, complete with the sender's name, the logo of the organization etc. The article is
here. There are two things of note which I am editing the article to incorporate
According to WP:UNIGUIDE (in an addition made by Wifione), we should "Give one factual statement summarizing overall "most recent" rankings obtained in key surveys." Wifione, can you please clarify why you believe this does not mean that you should have more than one ranking or award in the lead, as you stated in this edit summary? Your guideline seems pretty explicit to me. WeisheitSuchen ( talk) 12:48, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Can we please delete all the references to rankings in this article? Even iipm admits that these "Best Bschools list" are merely based on the perception of the magazine publishers and thus not verifiable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.2.144 ( talk) 06:28, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
I have made some edits.
Makrandjoshi ( talk) 12:53, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Hi Amatulic, you reverted around eight reliable sources I had added saying they primarily represented editorial opinion pieces. Leave the CNN link (which is more a listing of Asian Executive Education offering institutions, including IIPM, than a news article), others are sure and pure top grade articles. Noting down the details here for your reference >> CNN news (is a listing - not an oped, but yes, a listing only), Pioneer article (is from their section Avenues, which comes I guess every Monday, and contains many articles by experienced Pioneer journalists; the article is not from their Op-Ed section, which goes by the name Editorial - I've double checked every detail since your message), HT Syndication archive link (is an archive of the Pioneer Link maintained by Hindustan Times, another Reliable Source for us), Indian Express link (some years old, yet an article by a journalist only, despite the very flowery language being used), IIPMGota link (original source, but as it does not include any extraordinary claims, have attributed it to IIPM and placed it), NUS link (again, a university link, but contains straightforward information, so quoted it), an African university link (same concept as the previous link; just provided for support reference on Gota), Highbeam PTI archived link (it's the archive of the earlier link in the tax part which had become dead a few months back). Please do mention any clarifications you might require; I'll try my best to provide them. Warm regards. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ ―Œ ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣ 03:33, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
First, the UGC ad
It appeared in the Times of India on August 23:
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/getimage.dll?path=CAP/2010/08/23/9/Img/Ad0090800.png
The date is in the newspaper itself. 2007 is part of the number of the advertisement. You can see the notice here:
Why would the UGC issue a 2007 notice in 2010?
The reason why the UGS seems to have been compelled to give this notice is for reasons such as the following:
http://twitpic.com/2fkopn/full
Now, you could argue that the Twitpic is not an autheticated account, but that is the trouble with banner advertising. They would never have a static URL.
I hope you would be able to see the problem that the UGC and some of the past students of IIPM are fighting: despite warnings, IIPM blatantly continues to advertise falsely and that is why such ads by UGC are required. I hope the above will be able to satisfy you that this is absolutely PERTINENT news worthy of being mentioned about IIPM as anyone who reads the entry should know what the government's regulatory body has to say about IIPM
Once I have your approval to re-insert the above detail in the entry, I will come back and address some of the other issues. StudentForLifeTime ( talk) 18:18, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I invite other editors of this page to kindly comment on ways to delete repetitive information within the article, mainly relating to two entities:
If you all agree, this weekend I could upload a draft edit of the article at Talk:Indian Institute of Planning and Management/draft where I would upload a new version of the article sans the repetitive information. You all could add/delete information on the same and once we reach consensus, we could upload that document. If any of you wish to take the lead in creating this draft document, please do go ahead. Alternatively, if you feel the creation of the draft might be cumbersome, we could discuss the deletion issues right here in this section of discussions. Waiting for your responses before uploading the updated draft.(Currently, I've uploaded the original document as it is on the main page) Thanks and regards. ♪ ♫ Wifione ♫ ♪ ―Œ ♣Łeave Ξ мessage♣ 07:25, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Added following link to clarify that MSU (Manonmaniam Sundaranar University) reportedly only offers distance education MBA degrees and not full time MBA degrees " http://www.indianexpress.com/news/iipm-now-mumbai-students-demand-refund-mns-joins-in/755077/0" [17]
J mareeswaran ( talk) 15:40, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
The "controversies" section has been tagged for non-neutrality for over one year. What are the exact concerns here? As I see, the main problem is that of undue weight -- entire sections have been devoted to stories (such as JAM mag), which should be accommodated in a bullet point containing 2-3 sentences. Such sections should be trimmed and the neutrality tag should be removed. utcursch | talk 07:08, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i want to edit the informations given Indian Institute of planning and Management wikipedia, because there are some wrong and outdated informations given there which might confuse and distract the readers to get a clear picture about the institute
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
i want to edit few things in the controversy section because i think the controversies have been written down with a biased perspective. IIPM never claimed itself to affilated to AICTE or UGC , it was just said that the institute's tie up with MS university and Gulbarga University have enabled them to offer a course of BBA & MBA which are AICTE/UGC approved , by their OUTREACH programe.
Joy-123 ( talk) 16:15, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
It is hereby informed to the public at large and students that Indian Institute of Planning and Management (IIPM) is not a University within the meaning of Section 2(f) of the University Grants Commission Act, 1956. Further, as per Section 22 of the University Grants Commission Act, 1956, the Indian Institute of Planning and Management (IIPM) does not have right of conferring or granting degrees as specified by the University Grants Commission under Section 22(3) of the University Grants Commission Act. It is further clarified for information that Indian Institute of Planning and Management is neither entitle to award MBA/BBA/BCA degree nor it is recognized by UGC, MHRD and AICTE.
The public and students are also hereby informed that the universities established either by
a Central Act or a State Act or an Institution deemed to the university under Section 3 of the University Grants Commission Act can confer or grant only those degrees which are specified by the University Grants Commission under Section 22(3) of the University Grants Commission Act, 1956. A list of degrees specified by the University Grants Commission is available on the University Grants Commission website www.ugc.ac.in for information of all concerned.
(Niloufer Adil Kazmi) Secretary
You can check on this link — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nacx08 ( talk • contribs) 19:20, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi guys, I’ve finally done some edits and have placed them in the test page for your viewing and comments. A few changes that I have attempted are listed below. Do please me what you think of them. Anything and everything can be changed so please don’t think the edit I’ve placed is a permanent view. This might seem funny but let’s try and get this to a good article status if possible. The following are some key changes:
If there’s anything else that catches your eyes, please do tell. Like I mentioned, the attempt is to make it encyclopedic. Thanks. Wifione Message 11:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
As for the accreditation, if I read the section correction this is not an accredited institution. That is usually stated in the lead. Offering degree programs that are accredited through another institution is not accreditation. Again, I've seen too many promotional claims of this sort for borderline institutions. I don't personally know about this school though, and I am a little puzzled: for what reason does it not have accreditation, especially if it is in fact the highest ranking business school in India? That would seem to indicate a truly exceptional situation which needs some explanation. DGG ( talk ) 03:51, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I apologize for taking so long to get back to this. I think your wording is rather clever, but still needs some explanation and qualification. I realize the Indian higher education system is sui generis. If the accreditation is this complicated, and the term does not really apply to India in the same sense as elsewhere, it can not be called "accredited" in the ordinary sense in the infobox, but neither need it be called unaccredited there. (As analogies, I am thinking of the early 20th century, when any institution could say its graduates would be accredited thru the University of London, if they took its external degree examination. Or the situation until very recently, when the University of Wales would provide accreditation to "affiliated" institutions in various countries in such an indiscriminate manner that the University was closed down by the UK government.)
If programs, not colleges, are accredited, what exactly is the school's certificate program? apparently it is the final offering of the school itself under its own authority, which all its graduates get, and the "Academics" section needs a little rewriting to make that clear.; (the term is more often used for a preparatory program, leading to a non-professional qualification, or sometimes for admission into a regular academic program for further study.)
Based on the references, the extent to which the affiliations are real is disputed in many cases. Some are clearly not: that a one-time course is offered in association is not an affiliation. Based on the references, the extent to which an institute's not having its own accreditation is respectable is also disputed. "Voluntary" does not always mean optional. No school in the US actually need be accredited either in the literal sense (they generally need at least a business license, which some try to pass off as accreditation) but unless it is a small religious college that does not accept government aid, it can in practice not operate otherwise within the regular education system. In the US too, those that are unaccredited also resort to the practice of being associated in some manner with regular colleges for degree purposes, and their advertisements can be quite equivocal about the nature of this--the problem is by no means limited to India. The examples you give of accepted high quality schools are all business schools--are there others fields also? It is possible that what businesses consider sufficiently formal education is different from what the educational system considers--this is, after all, a field where a formal degree in the subject is not required for a successful career, though most people pursue it in the hope of improving their initial employment prospects.
The placements are also disputed. A college's word on its own placements--in any country--is usually considered a self-serving statement. (Consider current cases about US law schools) That 100% of the graduates of any institution find professional places in the field is an extraordinary statement (with the exception of state-run schools feeding directly into their civil or military service, like some in France, or most military academies), and consequently needs extraordinarily strong evidence. The listings of firms where its graduates work is promotional: almost any college has some graduates working in very large firms in some capacity. I realize the school is too new for a listing of notable graduates in the sense of having a Wikipedia article.
As for references, our practice is to consider the judgment of a trial court merely as a primary source to be quoted as such, not as settling the facts of the matter.I would like more references from outside India, especially references from outside India commenting on the court case. This is not unreasonable, as the school says it is an internationally recognized institution.
I have done some preliminary editing and will do more. But I have the problem that if I say the article is OK, since I work extensively in this topic area, this seems to be taken here as some sort of certification, and I do not take that responsibility for articles I did not write myself. I'm trying to figure out what to say, when I do edit. I know we're not supposed to be investigative reporters, but for some articles there seems to be little alternative. DGG ( talk ) 17:25, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
IIPM Logo|IIPM Logo Adglobal360im ( talk) 13:33, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
Added based on news articles in Mint and Medianama. See citation for verification.-- Nizil ( talk) 20:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
I added verifiability template as I found that some links mentioned in citation do not leads to verifiable source or even reliable sources. These citations support some claims in Controversy section, so need careful verification. Please removed unreferenced, poorly referenced, unreliable source ref'ed claims. -- Nizil ( talk) 20:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC)
This article (and the sister article Indian Institute of Planning and Management advertising and blogging controversy devote a lot of space to an incident which may have been a major event at the time, but may not justify that much space now. I am not suggesting the incident should be excised, but general practice, which this partially follows, is to have an article on the incident, and then a brief summary in the main article. While this format is roughly followed, the coverage in this article would be more properly covered by a paragraph or two.
Further, the incident is "supported" by link which are no longer working. While it is not required that links be to online material, it is troubling that such strong wording is supported by citations to material that cannot easily be verified.
I'd like us to examine whether there are live replacements for the multiple dead links, or alternative citations.
I'd also like to discuss whether this six year old incident can be better summarized.
Footnotes 65 and 83 were already marked as dead links when I first read this. I added templates to Footnotes 85 and 94 -- SPhilbrick (Talk) 13:13, 23 February 2013 (UTC)
In this section it is mentioned that most if its teaching staff is its own MBA students. Since IIPM doesn't award MBA degree, will it be correct to call them MBA. Vigyani ( talk) 07:44, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
I removed this from "Job placement" because it reads like a Laundry list of facts which i don't think help the article.
In 2007, according to IIPM's placement office, its students were placed in over 200 companies. [1] In 2008, IIPM placed 2,670 students through campus placements, including 165 international placements. [2]
In October 2005, the UGC (and later the AICTE ) raised objections about IIPM's technical degrees. The institute clarified that it had never offered MBA or BBA degrees; these were offered by International Management Institute Belgium (IMI) – a not-for-profit business school. [3]
<ref>
tag has too many names (see the
help page).
[8]
[9]
[10]
[11]
[12]
[13]
[14]
[15]
[16]
[17]References
timesofindia.indiatimes.com
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Cheers, Baffle gab1978 ( talk) 00:09, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Section copied from article:
IIPM has seven international placement offices.[25][68][69] According to the institute, 70 percent of its students choose the placement process, and that almost all of these students get jobs through it.[42] In 2005, IIPM Delhi and Mumbai's average placement salary was 3.8 lakh (US$7,000) for domestic placements and US$30,000 for international placements.[70] ICICI was the biggest recruiter and IBM was the 'Star recruiter" .[70] According to Business Standard, the IIPM invites companies to its campus and offers placements at its sister concern, Planman Consulting.[71] Since 2006, IIPM claims a 100% consistent placement record.[72] In June 2009, Mail Today reported that the institute got jobs for 2,300 out of 4,000 (How 100% as claimed above?) students with 750 companies participating, and 46 international placements, with the results of 100 campus interviews still being awaited. The average annual pay package was INR 420,000, which was reported to be a good figure given the recession.[73] According to the institute, financial service companies and small and medium enterprises participated in placements in 2009.[74] In June 2010, The Hindu reported that more than 10,000 IIPM students had been placed in the last five years in around 1,500 companies; with more than 250 students getting international placements in the previous three years. IIPM Delhi got the highest number of global placements in India for 2008 (165 students placed globally) and 2009 (55 students). Overall, the highest annual package received by an IIPM student was 20 lakh (US$37,000), with an average package of 4.63 lakh (US$8,500). According to IIPM, in 2009, major international companies participated in IIPM placements(?).[72][75] In 2011, 2400 students were placed by IIPM. According to the institute, the average annual salary was 5.2 lakh (US$9,500) and the maximum salary in international placements was 27.5 lakh (US$50,000) [76]
Hi, I have moved the controversies sections as it is much more important and useful to the reader than past rankings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lookinhotbra ( talk • contribs) 15:03, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Why is there such a detailed section for "Rankings"? Can't it be summarized into a smaller text that summarizes the whole deal? Like in case of IIMs? Nadesai ( talk) 10:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Clearly not warranted at the present time. Are there any other major article issues that need to be addressed? If so, perhaps someone can summarize them below. Coretheapple ( talk) 02:35, 5 December 2013 (UTC)