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I've reverted this edit because it suggested that the 1928 Institute is the new name for original India League, whereas the Institute's website states "The 1928 Institute was established in 2020 as a think-tank to continue the work of the original India League (est. 1928)" and to my mind, this suggests that it's not actually the same organisation. Cordless Larry ( talk) 12:11, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi Cordless Larry I hope all is well. Thanks for sending this through. I do not think that the BBC would publish that statement if it was not true (it's written as a matter-of-fact). When researching their article, they must have spoken with numerous parties in order to confirm that the 1928 Institute is a rebrand of the original India League - in the BBC article they did interview community elders and academics.
Thank you for sending the above link and when I checked out the 'Notable Alumni' and 'Our Journey' - [1], it said that they are a 'continuation of the original India League'. Furthermore, looking at the list of 'Notable Members', I can't imagine them joining a organisation if it was being disingenuous.
Maybe we can e-mail welcome@1928institute.org to get confirmation that its a continuation of the original India League? There is also this scholar - https://www.history.ox.ac.uk/the-india-league , who should be able to confirm the situation. JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 20:52, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for sending this across. Shall we just leave the page how it is for now? I can try and contact the aforementioned parties to get a clearer understanding of the matter.
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 21:20, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I've written this and I think it caters for both of our points of view. I hope this is OK - I'd like to introduce the following end of the previous section - "Latterly, its public presence faded.[4] and the group fragmented".
1928 Institute "In 2020, the 1928 Institute was established by academics at the University of Oxford,[5][6][7] , "to research and represent the views of British Indians – the UK’s largest ethnic minority group"[6]. "Formerly known as the India League, the organisation has since rebranded due to its work with the University of Oxford", states the BBC[7].' I'll contact all parties in the mean time to try and get more information.
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 21:37, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your speedy response, I messaged the 1928 Institute and they responded with "The 1928 Institute was established in 2020 as a think-tank and is the continuation of the original India League (est. 1928) - https://www.1928institute.org/the-india-league-story."
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 21:55, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - I am confident that the BBC is referring to the original India League and not just a group called the India League. If that were the case then the BBC would have made the distinction in the article. The article mentions the India League on 3 separate occasions, 2 of which are in relation to its historical actions (i.e. the original India League) - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-58627849. It would be very unlikely for the BBC to then mention the India League for the third time and mean anything but the original India League. Moreover, the article was widely read and if the other 'India League' had an issue, they would have requested an amendment or made a statement on it. May we please keep the page as it is but just add the part about the original India League fragmenting?
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 22:19, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - I just said fragmented as a way to keep all parties happy in this discussion. Something can fragment and then recompose. Founded could just mean re/establish. I get the impression that you do not want me to edit this page, given this - how would you like the 1928 Section to be accurately written?
JumpingJimmySingh (
talk)
22:44, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it. I've just always been interested in the India League and was updating the page before it rebranded to the 1928 Institute. I see your point but if I really wanted to promote the 1928 Institute, then I'd firstly take umbrage with the heavily-politicised quote by Amrit Wilson and focus on that. JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 23:48, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - I thought we agreed to discuss the changes on here before making live changes. Moreover, the changes which you have made are inaccurate. For example, 'In 2020, a think tank called the 1928 Institute,[5][4][6] with links with academics at the University of Oxford,[7][8][5] ...[9]' should read as the below given the sources and the University of Oxford (
https://www.dpag.ox.ac.uk/news/just-over-half-of-british-indians-would-take-covid-vaccine - 'In 2020, 'The 1928 Institute, a think tank co-founded by Dr Nikita Ved, Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics (DPAG), and Kiran Kaur Manku, Department of Psychiatry, are working together to research and represent the views of British Indians – the UK’s largest ethnic minority group')
"In 2020, a think tank called the 1928 Institute, was established by academics at the University of Oxford, with the aim to 'research and represent the views of British Indians – the UK’s largest ethnic minority group" The new brand was established by academics at the University, not just by people 'with links with academics at the University of Oxford'
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 17:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. When you mean consensus, do you mean you and I agreeing on the same point? Or do you mean me convincing you and you are the gate-keeper for the page? Re this statement: "was established, "to continue the work of the original India League".[9]", this is not correct either. Both the BBC article and their own website (
https://www.1928institute.org/the-india-league-story) state that they are the India League (albeit with a rebrand).
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 00:33, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - Thanks. My point re their website is that you are a referring to an old page. However, older pages state that they are a continuation of the India League. This is consistent with the current statement on their website - 'The 1928 Institute was established in 2020 as a think-tank and is the continuation of the original India League (est. 1928)' - https://www.1928institute.org/the-india-league-story JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 22:41, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
It should read - “Latterly, it’s public presence faded until 2020 when it was ‘revived to promote the interests of today’s British Indian community’.” I don’t understand why you keep removing this quote from the Guardian. They clearly state that the India League was revived in 2020. 78.86.134.72 ( talk) 15:13, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing up the revival part - I think this is very important for Wiki. It would be correct to say that the India League was 'revived' in 2020 and then 'rebranded' to the 1928 Institute. This corroborated by the BBC, the Guardian, and the University of Oxford. However, there is still another dormant group who calls themselves the India League...yet, no reputable source confirms that they are the original India League. Moreover, this entity just looks like a 'shell' with a hastily made website and no activity re the group. Thus, I think we can disregard their 'claim'. The BBC clearly writes this about the 1928 Institute - The hidden story of these early pioneers has been highlighted by The 1928 Institute think tank, set up to research and represent British Indians. Formerly known as the India League, the organisation has since rebranded due to its work with the University of Oxford. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-58627849
JumpingJimmySingh (
talk)
22:41, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
What's your evidence? I feels like your are just bullying me into silence because you are unable to counter my arguments. I would like this matter to be escalated as this type of bullying is unacceptable.
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I've reverted this edit because it suggested that the 1928 Institute is the new name for original India League, whereas the Institute's website states "The 1928 Institute was established in 2020 as a think-tank to continue the work of the original India League (est. 1928)" and to my mind, this suggests that it's not actually the same organisation. Cordless Larry ( talk) 12:11, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi Cordless Larry I hope all is well. Thanks for sending this through. I do not think that the BBC would publish that statement if it was not true (it's written as a matter-of-fact). When researching their article, they must have spoken with numerous parties in order to confirm that the 1928 Institute is a rebrand of the original India League - in the BBC article they did interview community elders and academics.
Thank you for sending the above link and when I checked out the 'Notable Alumni' and 'Our Journey' - [1], it said that they are a 'continuation of the original India League'. Furthermore, looking at the list of 'Notable Members', I can't imagine them joining a organisation if it was being disingenuous.
Maybe we can e-mail welcome@1928institute.org to get confirmation that its a continuation of the original India League? There is also this scholar - https://www.history.ox.ac.uk/the-india-league , who should be able to confirm the situation. JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 20:52, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you for sending this across. Shall we just leave the page how it is for now? I can try and contact the aforementioned parties to get a clearer understanding of the matter.
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 21:20, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
I've written this and I think it caters for both of our points of view. I hope this is OK - I'd like to introduce the following end of the previous section - "Latterly, its public presence faded.[4] and the group fragmented".
1928 Institute "In 2020, the 1928 Institute was established by academics at the University of Oxford,[5][6][7] , "to research and represent the views of British Indians – the UK’s largest ethnic minority group"[6]. "Formerly known as the India League, the organisation has since rebranded due to its work with the University of Oxford", states the BBC[7].' I'll contact all parties in the mean time to try and get more information.
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 21:37, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your speedy response, I messaged the 1928 Institute and they responded with "The 1928 Institute was established in 2020 as a think-tank and is the continuation of the original India League (est. 1928) - https://www.1928institute.org/the-india-league-story."
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 21:55, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - I am confident that the BBC is referring to the original India League and not just a group called the India League. If that were the case then the BBC would have made the distinction in the article. The article mentions the India League on 3 separate occasions, 2 of which are in relation to its historical actions (i.e. the original India League) - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-58627849. It would be very unlikely for the BBC to then mention the India League for the third time and mean anything but the original India League. Moreover, the article was widely read and if the other 'India League' had an issue, they would have requested an amendment or made a statement on it. May we please keep the page as it is but just add the part about the original India League fragmenting?
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 22:19, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - I just said fragmented as a way to keep all parties happy in this discussion. Something can fragment and then recompose. Founded could just mean re/establish. I get the impression that you do not want me to edit this page, given this - how would you like the 1928 Section to be accurately written?
JumpingJimmySingh (
talk)
22:44, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - Thanks for letting me know, I appreciate it. I've just always been interested in the India League and was updating the page before it rebranded to the 1928 Institute. I see your point but if I really wanted to promote the 1928 Institute, then I'd firstly take umbrage with the heavily-politicised quote by Amrit Wilson and focus on that. JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 23:48, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - I thought we agreed to discuss the changes on here before making live changes. Moreover, the changes which you have made are inaccurate. For example, 'In 2020, a think tank called the 1928 Institute,[5][4][6] with links with academics at the University of Oxford,[7][8][5] ...[9]' should read as the below given the sources and the University of Oxford (
https://www.dpag.ox.ac.uk/news/just-over-half-of-british-indians-would-take-covid-vaccine - 'In 2020, 'The 1928 Institute, a think tank co-founded by Dr Nikita Ved, Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics (DPAG), and Kiran Kaur Manku, Department of Psychiatry, are working together to research and represent the views of British Indians – the UK’s largest ethnic minority group')
"In 2020, a think tank called the 1928 Institute, was established by academics at the University of Oxford, with the aim to 'research and represent the views of British Indians – the UK’s largest ethnic minority group" The new brand was established by academics at the University, not just by people 'with links with academics at the University of Oxford'
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 17:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. When you mean consensus, do you mean you and I agreeing on the same point? Or do you mean me convincing you and you are the gate-keeper for the page? Re this statement: "was established, "to continue the work of the original India League".[9]", this is not correct either. Both the BBC article and their own website (
https://www.1928institute.org/the-india-league-story) state that they are the India League (albeit with a rebrand).
JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 00:33, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
Hi - Thanks. My point re their website is that you are a referring to an old page. However, older pages state that they are a continuation of the India League. This is consistent with the current statement on their website - 'The 1928 Institute was established in 2020 as a think-tank and is the continuation of the original India League (est. 1928)' - https://www.1928institute.org/the-india-league-story JumpingJimmySingh ( talk) 22:41, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
It should read - “Latterly, it’s public presence faded until 2020 when it was ‘revived to promote the interests of today’s British Indian community’.” I don’t understand why you keep removing this quote from the Guardian. They clearly state that the India League was revived in 2020. 78.86.134.72 ( talk) 15:13, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for bringing up the revival part - I think this is very important for Wiki. It would be correct to say that the India League was 'revived' in 2020 and then 'rebranded' to the 1928 Institute. This corroborated by the BBC, the Guardian, and the University of Oxford. However, there is still another dormant group who calls themselves the India League...yet, no reputable source confirms that they are the original India League. Moreover, this entity just looks like a 'shell' with a hastily made website and no activity re the group. Thus, I think we can disregard their 'claim'. The BBC clearly writes this about the 1928 Institute - The hidden story of these early pioneers has been highlighted by The 1928 Institute think tank, set up to research and represent British Indians. Formerly known as the India League, the organisation has since rebranded due to its work with the University of Oxford. - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-58627849
JumpingJimmySingh (
talk)
22:41, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
What's your evidence? I feels like your are just bullying me into silence because you are unable to counter my arguments. I would like this matter to be escalated as this type of bullying is unacceptable.