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I have found a couple of grammar mistakes in this article, including the following :
1. According to http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_comma.html , commas should be used "to separate three or more words." Most of the times in this article, commas have been used to separate the first from the second, the second from the third, etc. but not the last from the second last. Examples include the following (places where commas should be put are in bold print): "Four major world religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism originated here, while Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism arrived..."(second paragraph of introduction) "led by the Indo-Greeks, Indo-Scythians, Indo-Parthians and Kushans..."(second paragraph of history section) "such as the Chalukyas, Cholas, Pallavas and Pandyas..." (second paragraph of history section) "including Portugal, Netherlands, France and the United Kingdom..." (third paragraph of history section) "including INC, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Communist Party of India (CPI) and various regional parties." (first paragraph of politics section) "including bharatanatyam, kathakali, kathak, kuchipudi, manipuri, odissi and yakshagana" (second paragraphs of culture section) "as ingredients, spices and cooking methods"(third paragraphs of culture section) "coastal states of West Bengal, Goa and Kerala..."(fifth paragraph of culture section) "...to the ancient martial arts, kalarippayattu and Varma Kalai"(fifth paragraph of culture section) "
2. Various other grammar mistakes include the following (bold areas indicate where changes should be made): "...although Cricket is the..."(capitalization mistake: fifth paragraph of culture section) "India is home to two major linguistic families: Indo-Aryan..." (second paragraph of demographics section: perhaps it should be changed to "India is home to the following two major linguistic families:") "India has three archipelagos — Lakshadweep, which lies off the southwestern coast; the volcanic Andaman and Nicobar Islands island chain to the southeast, and the Sunderbans in the Ganges Delta of West Bengal."(why is there a semicolon between the first and second clauses but only a comma between the second and third clauses?); Whenever statistics relating to money are given in USA, the symbol put before the number is US$, which, according to me, should be changed to either USD or plain $, not a combination of both. Johnsmithcba 17:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
It may be used in American English and not usually in British English, but according to most professors of the English language, even in India, the serial comma indicates formal writing, no matter what type of English it is. Is not Wikipedia a former encyclopedia? Johnsmithcba 18:05, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Replying to your statement, why is it that only some of the series in this article don't have the last comma, while most of them do? Is not that a contradiction, sort of like a paradox? I only picked out the ones that don't have a comma before the last item in the series, but there are even more that do have it. Johnsmithcba 18:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I have corrected the semicolon in the geography and cricket in culture. As for dollars, US$ is accepted, as with USD ( ISO 4217). $ is ambigious so we do not use. Please aquaint yourself with the WP:MoS before making further proposals. =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
One last thing concerning the serial comma. Why is that most series in this article follow the serial comma, but some (the ones that I have listed) do not. Should not it be made consistent, so the whole article either follows the serial comma or does not at all? Johnsmithcba 11:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Per
Serial_comma#Usage, the serial comma is also used in British English, for example, in Oxford Univ. Style. --
Ragib
07:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
In the intro section, the page lists the names of important cities. Hre "Pune" must be included, as it is one of the most importan cities (7th largest city, IT capital, and "Oxford" of East) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaydeep.godbole ( talk • contribs) 08:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC).
Does not anyone think that there should be a new picture of the Indian parliament replacing the one given now in the Politics section, one which would picture it in the daytime and would give it a bit more closeup of it? Universe=atom 16:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Same suggestion given on the same page ref:Sansad bhavan pic not good. Please discuss there. -- 59.182.34.192 10:57, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
It's nice, but what about the following picture: http://www.iloveindia.com/images/parliament.jpg Universe=atom 17:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, then where can we get a better picture of the parliament, considering that the current one should be removed. If one can not be found, perhaps there should not be a picture of the parliament altogether but instead another picture relating to Indian politics. Universe=atom 14:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
The current one was contributed by me and was a much better picture than the previous one (where only a third of the pic was the parliament building and the rest was a Maruti van and the road. Flickr is the place to get good pictures. You can always find a pic and ask its owner to change the copywright. Thats how many of the images are brought to wikipedia. Nikkul 12:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Why does etymology section does not discuss etymology of word Bharat? Can somebody have a look at it?
And the sentense "The Constitution of India and common usage in Hindi also recognise Bharat ......" should be "The Constitution of India and common usage in Indian languages also recognise Bharat ......" Bharat is the name used by most of the Indian languages(in GUjrathi, Marathi, Tamil, Bengali, Telugu, Malayalam, Tulu, Konkani,Kannada and Hindi). We should also include the etymology of Bharat. It is wrong to say India is the common name used but it is only used by Enlish speaking Urban Indians. Do not forget that 70% of Indians live in rural areas.
there is a full discussion at Etymology_of_the_names_of_India#Bharat. dab (𒁳) 13:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Should not there be added additional links to main articles in the government section? For example, the following:
Main Article: Government of India Sub Articles: - Politics_of_India#Central_and_State_Governments#Legislative_branch - Politics_of_India#Central_and_State_Governments#Judicial_branch
I am suggesting this because in the "Government of India" section, it talks about all of the three branches. Should not there be links to sub-main-articles for each of the three branches, leading into a more detailed account of each branch. Universe=atom 19:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Why is it so that in the External Links section, the second link in the "Government" sub-section overlaps the audio file template? Universe=atom 15:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, it's my mistake. The computer I was looking at had a lower screen resolution. It's ok with computers with normal view settings. Again, sorry. Universe=atom 13:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I feel the introduction of India is not very effective. It is only in the second paragraph that Indus Valley civilization is mentioned whereas the first paragraph talks about India being the seventh largest country in size and that it shares international boundaries with many other countries. I believe that introduction should be the "first things first" way and it is a fact (one of which all Indians are truly proud of) that India is the cradle to one of the 4 (or 5 if we count Greece) ancient civilizations.
When I was not satisfied with the "India" introduction, just out of curiosity, I checked the article on China (one of the other great ancient civilizations) and found it so strong that am reproducing the stronger bits here:
"... (China) is a cultural region, ancient civilization, and nation in East Asia. It is one of the world's oldest civilizations, consisting of states and cultures dating back more than six millennia..." "China is one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations. It has the world's longest continuously used..."
The first extract is from the 1st paragraph. Even the 2nd para starts with emphasis on China being an ancient civilization (the second extract).
We should highlight Indus Valley right in the first para instead of relegating it to the second paragraph. Thanks Kunjite 18:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay, got your point of view on the introduction/lead Dwaipayan. Kunjite 20:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Since most of the corrections of grammar mistakes that I make in this article are reverted, I shall list them here. Please express your views, for that is the only way I can know if the mistake should be corrected, or if it is a mistake at all.
For now, that is all. If you find the previous examples as mistakes, please change them, for I have already tried to do so but have failed, since people have reverted my changes and told me to discuss changes in the talk pages, as I have just done so. Universe=atom 18:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
-- 59.182.18.175 08:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply, but what exactly do you mean by "pointwise?" Universe=atom 10:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
-- KnowledgeHegemony 06:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I have edited my mistakes to make them point-wise. Please tell me your opinions on the mistakes, for if I do not receive any opinions, I will go ahead and correct all these mistakes. Universe=atom 15:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
There has been a lot of activity since the 'protected' template was removed which has resulted in some undesirous changes and also vandalism. -- 59.182.20.146 13:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Instead of the current picture of the Toda hut in the culture section, and the picture of the peacock in the Flora and Fauna section, how would the following pictures look, each respectively replacing their counterparts mentioned above:?
Please give your feedback. Universe=atom 15:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Since the topic has been broached again below, I am reducing the last three posts below Fowler&fowler «Talk» 16:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
someone should fix the first heading "ajay is gay" because some kid thought it would be funny to see their "work" on the internet. I do not know what this should be titled so i will not change it.
There are reasons I suggested these pictures. The peacock, first of all, is of a bit too much close-up. The feathers cover the whole picture; if there is to be a picture of the peacock, perhaps it would be better to make it of a bit less zoom. The picture of the toda hut, second of all, has nothing to do with the context of the text where it is put. The picture of the traditional Indian cuisine, though, would be in place with the text, as there is a paragraph right above the picture that talks about the cuisine. About the picture of the Indian climate, does anybody have any suggestions? Universe=atom 16:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, sorry, but the average temperatures map does not fit in the geography section. Instead, how would the following picture look:
Please give your feedback. Universe=atom 18:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
What are you talking about; also, please do not post comments not relating to the pictures section here but rather on my talk page. Universe=atom 14:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
So, is anybody for or against the image of the climatic map of India (note: this is not the same one as the annual temperatures map)? I think it would it would suit quite well in the second part of the "Geography" section, as the section, along with the geography of India in the first part, also talks about the climate of India (in the second part). Also, replying to earlier statements, the picture of the tiger, according to me, is a bit better than the peacock picture partially because the peacock has a bit too much closeup (at first sight, the peacock does not even look like a peacock; one has to observe it closely or read the text underneath it to find out that it is a peacock). Also, although it does matter about which is the national symbol of India and which is not, equally important is the quality/structure of the picture, especially if it is going to be put in a featured article like India; in this case, the picture of the tiger is of better structure; also, according to me (please note that not everybody may share my views) is more beautiful than the peacock. BTW, Abecedare, echoing what you said in talk archive 23, it does not matter if a picture is featured or not; it should be of good content. On the subject of the picture of the cuisine, I guess the Toda hut is better. Universe=atom 17:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
BTW, the Bengal tiger is also kind of like an unofficial national animal of India. Universe=atom 18:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Good point. Universe=atom 15:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
I am suggesting that the following image of the 1000 Rs. paper money be put into the "economy" section, partially because of the long length of the section:
Universe=atom 16:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Anyone got the Agni-III image. The Rupee image can be there in the economic section. I support it. Chanakyathegreat 13:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I could not find any picture of the Agni III on Wikipedia and no visually appealing picture of it on any other website that has a good copyright license. Is anybody else for the Rupee image in the Economy section? Universe=atom 14:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, Blacksun, the peacock may be the national bird of India, but the Bengal tiger is the national animal. Universe=atom 15:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Wealth distribution which is fairly uneven is found to be better than the certain developed countries like the United States and the fastest growing economy People's Republic of China. The section is updated accordingly. Chanakyathegreat 07:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
So you agree that by Gini index wealth distribution in India is better than the U.S. Forget Rwanda and Pakistan. We are not discussing about them. Even if there is no wealth you get equality. Now when it comes to larger economies like India having better equality in wealth distribution is thing that cannot be disregarded. When India in a better postion then the wordings used are not correct. And the next sentence by the Australian reporter who considers 47% Indian school children at the primary level equivalent to Half of India's population and concludes that half of Indian's are not benifitted by economic reforms is very funny. Chanakyathegreat 15:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 03:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
OK, here is my proposed replacement:
Indian economy has grown steadily over the past few decades, but progress has been uneven among social and economic groups, across regions, states and the urban-rural divide. Though income inequality in India is still relatively low, it has been rising and despite significant progress, roughly quarter of India's population still falls under the poverty line and child malnutrition rates are higher than any other country in the world.
The whole passage can be referenced to the World Bank 2006 report listed above (see esp. page 1 and 17-27). Comments, revision etc welcome! Abecedare 05:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
The Indian economy has grown steadily over the last two decades; however, its growth has been uneven when comparing different social groups, economic groups, geographic regions, and rural and urban areas. Although income inequality in India is relatively small, it has been increasing of late. Despite significant economic progress, a quarter of the nation's population earns less than the government-specified poverty threshold of $0.40/day. In addition, India has more undernourished children than any country in the world: 46% of the country's children under the age of three suffer from malnutrition.
Please feel free to change in any way you want. Your World Bank 2006 reference looks good. Here, BTW, is the latest report (Indian Health Department and UNICEF) on childhood malnutrition from late February 2007: The Times, London: Indian children suffer more malnutrition than in Ethiopia. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 16:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I have replaced the paragraph in the Economy section (
diff) as per F&F's revised version above. Some final tweaks that I made:
Further revisions welcome ... as always. Abecedare 18:56, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
The sentence has been corrected and made more accurate. In addition, India has a higher rate of malnutrition in the world among children under the age of three, who are not covered by free meals at school. Chanakyathegreat 13:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
You removed the main part. The reason. Chanakyathegreat 13:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Here is my take:
Aside: Although ~25% poverty rate in India is pretty high, it is down from ~50% rate (using same definition) in 1980 hence I think the "significant progress" is as noteworthy as the raw statistic. Also (for my personal curiosity), is there a source for the $0.40/day metric ? According to [1] (footnte on page 2) the GOI standard is based on available calories. Abecedare 22:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Indiastar for listing the concrete objections. Here is my analysis:
"There are three dimensions to the increase in income inequality. As discussed earlier, improvements in mean urban incomes outpaced rural incomes, widening the gulf between rural and urban India. Interstate inequalities widened as rich states grew faster than poor states. Within-state urban inequality also rose, reversing a previously declining trend (Sen and Himanshu 2005)." (page 24)
"India’s rapid progress in the 1990s has not been uniformly shared among its people. As documented in chapter 1, income inequality has risen, although India still has a relatively balanced distribution of income by global standards." (page 165)
"This prudent approach has sidestepped major shocks, and the changes in inequality consequent upon these reforms have been modest by the standards of, say, the transition economies. Rural inequality has risen at a slower pace than have urban and overall inequality. The rise in inequality has been the result of three factors: (i) a shift in earnings from labour to capital income, (ii) the rapid growth of the services sector – particularly the FIRE sector2 – with a consequent explosion in demand for skilled workers and (iii) a drop in the rate of labour absorption during the reform period. There has also been an increase in regional inequality, especially in the incidence of rural poverty. This rise in inequality has implied that, despite better growth, poverty reduction has been sluggish." (page 3)
I apologize for this looong reply, but hopefully I have addressed the points you raised. Regards. Abecedare 03:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure we should be able to find a source for this. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)The Indian poverty line (which is the inflation-adjusted amount that would have bought 2400 calories in food per person per day in rural areas and 2100 calories in urban areas in 1973) is now Rs. 540 per month, or $12 per month (at the Rs 45 = $1 exchange rate), or 40 cents per day. This assumes that the entire income of Rs. 540 is being spent on food. With this definition of the poverty line (ie. 40 cents per day), the proportions of Indians below the poverty line is 23% or 25% (depending on what statistics one quotes).
It will be worthy to add these two, keeping in mind the 'cricket loving' and 'film crazy' countrymen. India without mention of Cricket and the film industry is incomplete. How it can be 'sub-topic'ed can be seen in the article- Germany (also a featured article). One can also take a tip of how climate is written under Geography. Just a suggestion...
At least some mention of Cricket and Bollywood or the South Indian film industry. Even the World Book mentions them. -- 59.182.49.116 15:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
subtopics of cricket n Films not there but they r mentioned in the Culture para!-- 59.182.30.216 14:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
A seperate section can be created for sports. Like in the FA Japan and Germany. Chanakyathegreat 12:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
In the second opening paragraph it is rightly stated: "Four major world religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism originated here".
But without a source it looks "incomplete". -- 59.182.33.156 16:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I have a source- origins of major religions by http://www.sacred-texts.com Can someone please insert it!. ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 08:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Please correct the follwoing mistake : New Delhi is a state and not a union territory in India —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gr rathi ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC).
See the faq of the article! -- 59.182.30.216 13:58, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, the image has been bothering me quite a bit recently, in an otherwise almost perfect article. I think I might have voted for keeping it in the past but it seems to make less and less sense the more I think about it. The tribal woman's image in demographics makes sense and their is good reasoning for it but the Toda hut, despite being a nice picture, seems very out of place in the culture section. The biggest argument in favor of keeping the image, I believe, has been that it is FA image. However, I think it fails miserably in representing any significant culture. I mean, if you want to show tribal culture, their must be better images that can be found to depict that. I believe that of all the potential images that can be picked in the culture section, this would be somewhere at the bottom of the list. It just does not fit in the space it has been put into, imho. Not to mention, I do not think the image is supported by any kind of text in the culture section. How about an image of a popular classical musician or bollywood - things that are actually mentioned in the culture section. -- Blacksun 09:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
No where in the culture section does it mention housing. and also, the toda people do not represent all of south india, which used to be another arguement for the image. Nikkul 13:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
(reproduced from above)
Why is it a stretch? It certainly is about art and design. As for your other assertions, I can only repeat what I said above: we went through a long enervating process in mid-March and a majority wanted both the Apatani and Toda pictures in. I understand that there is no explicit WP policy, but we can't keep having these debates every 6 weeks because one or two persons change their minds. Let's wait a little longer before we revist the issue. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Even after 2 to 3 months, I still dont see why small tribes like the Apantis and Todas get favors when it comes to pictures rather than the MAJORITY which forms India. I have serious doubts that most Indians wake up in toda huts.
1400 Todas / 1000000000 Indians = .00014 % of Indians are Toda.
Why should they get half of the culture section's images? Is their culture followed by the majority of Indians? This is an encyclopedia. It describes OVERALL indian culture. The toda image is TOO SPECIFIC. Nikkul 01:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Finding it difficult to replace two images. Why not the
Golden temple and in the demograhic section a chart that shows the poverty reduction graph or a population of India map.
Chanakyathegreat 13:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The map already exists. [5] Now how many here support placing this image in the demograhic section. Chanakyathegreat 03:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
The Ajanta caves image is barely distinguisable and is a very poor representation of Indian history. Nikkul 12:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Nikkul 13:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
The rock paintings of Bhimbetka will be suitable for the history section. There are many paintings and the best one can be selected. Chanakyathegreat 12:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
One more image [6] of the Konark sun temple. Chanakyathegreat 13:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The Bank Note image is not free, and is copyrighted. Fair use claims are not applicable to trivial mentions of the note, as done via the caption in this page. I have removed the image, as it is not necessary for this article.
-- Ragib 17:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank god! I didnt find it appropriate anyway. Nikkul 01:38, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Please note that the president & the prime minister of India are both Doctorate. They need to be called Dr.A. P. J. Abdul Kalam & Dr.Manmohan Singh, respectively. 61.17.98.39 09:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)Abhishek Math Good suggestion! Done! -- Deepak D'Souza ( talk • contribs) 09:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Recently it was added tht India is also called Aryavart. Whereas the article on Aryavart says it is wrong to call the whole of India Aryavart. They condradict ? -- ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 15:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
In the "Navigation" section that I recently merged out of the "External Links" section, the first template is the International Ties of India one, which lists all the international organizations of which India is part of. Then comes the Countries of Asia template; then, the Countries of South Asia template; then, the G15 template; then, the BRIC template. I was wondering if the templates of major organizations of which India is part of (e.g.: ASEEAN, WTO, SAARC, UN, ect.) should also be separately put (like the G15 and the BRIC, both of which are currently separately put). Regards. Universe=atom 18:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
-- ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 07:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
A third name, Hindustan ( Urdu/ Hindustani:هندوستان/हिंदुस्तान, Hindi: हिंदुस्तां), () ( Persian: Land of the Hindus), has been in use since the twelfth century. It is commonly used to refer to India in Urdu/ Hindustani. In Hindi, its usage is mainly for poetic effect.
Personally, I find Hindi-Urdu-Persian-Hindustani thing very confusing...
-- 59.182.6.215 08:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
In the "Military and foreign relations" section, the first two paragraphs are about foreign relations of India, while the subsequent paragraph talks about the military. This is in direct contradiction of the name of the section, which, at first sight, would suggest that the information about the military would come before the information about the foreign relations of India. Of the following tasks, which one should be executed: Change the name of the section to "Foreign relations and the military" (as it is in Australia [FA]), OR change the text and make the paragraph about the military come before the two paragraphs about the foreign relations? Regards. Universe=atom 18:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
the {{IndicText}} tag is being added and removed repeatedly. Lets discus peacefully ?
I support having the Indic tag, but not at the top. It drags the whole info box down and makes the article much harder to read. Even tho most would like the tag in the article, I dont think most people would like it at the top. Lets discuss other options of placement. Nikkul 19:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I think it should be below the infobox. Above it is too distracting. Nikkul 00:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Referring to 3rd template on top of this Talk page
When one clicks on [show] this is what it shows:-
→This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team. [hide]
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
I have added several {{fact}} templates (citations needed) to several places in the article. If possible, please give references. If references there are not needed or if a reference has already been provided for that piece of data near it, please do not hesitate to remove the {{fact}} template from there immediately, as I am not sure where references are needed and where they are not. See United States for the places where I think in an article references should be put. Regards. Universe=atom 15:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, U=a, you can't make the changes first and then bring them up on the talk page later. If you persist in these unilateral edits, we will begin to consider your changes instances of vandalism. As I have already told you before, this page doesn't need your help. The changes you make create a lot of work for others (in undoing them). That was true with your compulsive and en masse addition of fact tags (when you clearly don't understand what the summary style is about). Similarly, your "grammar mistakes" corrections are for the most part either incorrect themselves or merely bookish changes, that anyone with a working knowledge of modern English would not make. As I have said repeatedly earlier, there are lots of India-related pages that need help, and yet, you still keep insisting on working on a page that is a long-standing featured article and doesn't need help; why don't you help with the pages that need help? Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I submit that Universe=atom is not an example of a newcomer needing help and guidance, but rather someone who has a Wikipedia:Main article fixation. He has been editing for about a month now, and started out by Wikilinking every other word in sight on the Taj Mahal page, including (as you will observe here) one memorable edit where he linked words like "grave," "red," "marble," and "husband," (in four sections) and summarized by ("Introducing 132 more internal links"). Since those edits couldn't be simply undone (on account of later changes), user:Nemonoman had to spend an hour fixing them. When U=a was cautioned on his talk page, he responded by simply blanking the talk page and pretending to start anew. A month later, undaunted, he continues to make these en masse edits (be they so-called "grammar mistakes" or fact tags). Fowler&fowler «Talk» 21:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Dear Universe=atom, Here are some of the comments posted in the RfC, Adding New Material to the India Page, we had on this page in early February 2007. The comments in the collapsible navbox below are from experienced editors who have been working on Wikipedia articles for many years.
Expand to see contents |
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::* Comment - The limit on article size is important, otherwise, the tendency to add each and every bit of information makes articles grow beyond limits. The FA guidelines are strict, and adding more and more tidbits will create grounds for de-listing an article from FA status. Per
WP:SUMMARY, article sections should be summaries of content described in detail in sub-articles. So, I suggest adding new content ONLY to the sub articles and putting a brief, concise mention of it in the main article. The history section is already quite elaborate, and I don't see any scope of further lengthening the section. Please add the content to
History of India, which is the correct place to place details, per summary style. Thank you. --
Ragib
04:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
|
Thanks, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 21:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I am not at all asking you to try and mentor him. I am only pointing out that you have no right to browbeat him, push him around and in general, treat him disrespectfully. It is uncivil. And please stop dumping entire talk pages into one comment. Giving the relevant diff will do. Or atleast wrap them up in the retractable boxes. And can you point out which one of Ragib or dab or any of the others there condone being incivil and browbeating newbies to keep the article squeaky clean? And where was it ever decided that editors who edit this article have to first discuss it on the talk page? Do you realise that such a proposition is nonsensical and would be in violation of some of the most basic guidelines of the 'encyclopedia that anyone can edit'?(If you want to make your proposition a policy, you go discuss it first at the village pump!)
And what makes you think that a user who is only a month old ought to first read through reams and reams of archives before getting down to edit? As for excessive wikilinking, its perhaps one of the commonest mistakes that overly enthusiastic newbies are prone to. I have done it myself long long ago. And saying that those edits couldnt be undone because of intervening edits is funny. All you need to do is to put up an underconstruction or inuse tag, revert the wikilinks and then bring back perhaps the 'few' intervening edits. It will all be done in a few mins. If this is too much mopping up for you to do, then wait till somebody else cleans up or you could even ask the guy(U=A in this case) to clean up himself. As for the {{cn}}s, I can see where they're coming from. I myself added a "cn" recently to this article which U=A reverted. I reverted and asked him why and he said it was a mistake and that he didnt know what "cn" was. I explained it to him. And now, since he's learnt something new, he's very enthusiastically used it here. That is the way you'd see it if you assumed good faith. You owe U=A an apology. First, you rudely insinuate that he is a sock and now you try to bully him with rules you made up yourself on the fly. If you think he is someone's sock, go file a CU against him. Until then, be courteous and learn to assume good faith. Sarvagnya 22:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry for all the misunderstanding that my addition of fact templates has caused. What I said in my edit summary was that please refer to the talk page regarding my edit. In the talk page, I clearly stated that I was not sure of my edit and made it clear that if anyone thinks that they are not needed, they should not even give it a second thought but just revert it. I did not intend to give any hidden or subliminal message. Also, F&F, what do you mean by your statement, As I have already told you before, this page doesn't need your help. Four your information, I have each and every right to edit Wikipedia as any other out the four million users, whether he may be a plain IP address or an influential administrator. In the same paragprah, you also stated that my "grammar mistakes" corrections are for the most part either incorrect themselves or merely bookish changes, that anyone with a working knowledge of modern English would not make. If you think that my corrections of grammar mistakes are incorrect, please do not just simply revert them, with only you foolishly thinking that they are incorrect. Instead, go check a grammar manual and find out your own mistake about grammar. If you have a problem with the grammar mistakes that I correct, first look at your own grammar. For your information, when I usually make a grammar correction or suggest grammar changes (like in another section in this talk page), I usually give a professional grammatical explanation of what I think is wrong; then, I give an ordinary explanation, so ordinary-grammar-slacking people can understand it. In the same paragraph, you also included the following statement: ...you still keep insisting on working on a page that is a long-standing featured article and doesn't need help; why don't you help with the pages that need help? First of all, who do you think you are? Second of all, you do not have any right whatsoever to bully me about what articles I should edit and which articles I should not. As for the over wikilinking that I have previously done, I admit that it was wrong. However, soon, after being told, I realized my faults and edited carefully. I was also told to go to some wikipedia manuals and read the rules. Yes, I did that, found out some new things (including the link to names of places in other languages, which I put in the India article), but, of course, I cannot read every single rule and memorize each one of them. As for blanking my talk page, F&f, WHY DIDN'T YOU PUT THE SECOND PART OF THE STORY?!? Immediately, after being told that blanking your own talk page is considered wrong on wikipedia, I kindly asked for someone to revert my decision, as I did not know how to do so yet. So, Neonoman kindly did so (unlike some other rude users who would probably not even give a thought about doing so) and even left me a kind message about it. So, as it can be seen, yes, I made several mistakes in wikipedia, but I tried to learn from them and even asked others to help me by explaining some stuff (such as the fact template, kindly explained by Sarvagnya), because nobody (not even F&f) is perfect. As for your comment on my being a vandal, F&f, do you even know the meaning of the word vandal, considering that you think of my being a vandal? A vandal is, according the official wikipedia definition, any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia. Do you think that I deliberately tried to ruin the India article when I included a precise summary of what I was doing and even asked others to revert it if they thought it was inappropriate? As for your accusation of my being a sock, I encourage you to file a CU against my being a sock of any account you make up out of the blues. Until then, please talk in civil manner to all users. Regards. Universe=atom 17:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, F&f, why did you revert my wise edit of putting some pictures to the left (in order to balance the sides in terms of pictures) and of making some minor grammar mistakes. In addition, you even included in your edit summary the following message: rv all undiscussed changes by Universe-atom. If you persist in this fashion, it will be seen as vandalism. Do I have to discuss every single minor edit in the talk page? Do you ever do that? Did you know that I can spit the same stamement into your face? Can't you ever just shut up and stop accusing others of vandalism (when perhaps your own revert may be considered vandalism by others) and STOP CONSIDERING YOURSELF AS THE KING OF WIKIPEDIA!!! I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I mean to be courteous. Warm regards. Universe=atom 17:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, yes, I shall keep on editing any articles that I wish, no matter what. If people consistently stand in my way (by not being courteous and by reverting all my edits because of prejudices), I shall report them in. Universe=atom 17:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Recently, I have moved the images in the "Politics," "Geography," and "Economy" sections to the left, in order to give a better balance between the two sides in terms of images. This edit, though, has been reverted by F&f, saying that it was "undiscussed". (BTW, I do not have to discuss every single edit, that I make, in the talk page.) So, does anybody else support this decision? If sufficient support is provided, I shall again put the images to the left. Regards. Universe=atom 18:47, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Images aligned to the left at the beginning of a section makes it harder to read the text. =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Do we need all the navigational templates in this section. IMO only Template:Indian ties should be retained and all others are unnecessary clutter that should be removed, for the following reasons:
I'll wait for other editors to chime in before making any changes in the section. Abecedare 07:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I changed the {{articlehistory}} size to normal from small on the *this* talk page. As I felt that it was important to 'highlight' the fact that India is a featured article and that it is a previous 'Today's featured article' too.
But if you feel that the previous version was better please revert it, without any hesitation. -- ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 16:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
What the hell: [8]?
India has always led in the educstion because THEY ARE SMART.
We lead in "educstion" because we are smart!!!!! -- Deepak D'Souza ( talk • contribs) 04:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I sincerely feel the need to add info on India's space research developments and satellites launched by it. But where should I? -- Knowledge Hegemony 17:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, most other countries have a section for technology or something similar, but no no no, not here because this page is a featured article and god forbid anyone add another section that this featured article...because of course that would be a disaster!!! Since this is a featured articles, all the images must remain boring, all the sections must remain brief and any attempt to change this will be shunned. That is what Ive learned about this page. The bureaucracy here is worse than in India. Nothing gets done. Only arguements. Good luck. Nikkul 00:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 08:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but it can be discouraging when no one responds.... -- Knowledge Hegemony 14:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I am not asking for a new section. But just inclusion of some facts. Knowledge Hegemony 15:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Knowledge Hegemony 09:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why it is necessary to say that "India is one of the few countries..." USA, France, Japan, Europe and China are some of the others: It's unnecessarily adding an imbalance on the page by highlighting the positive aspects and toning down the less positive aspects. =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
The Apanti image is too specific to be an appropriate and representative image for the demographic section. Since only one in a couple thousand indians follows Apanti customs, it is not fair to use that image to represent all of India. An image should represent the text. The apanti image may be fit for the tribes of india page, but since tribes are only 8 percent of the total population, it is not fair to the other 92 percent to have the tribal image used to represent that 92 percent. Let's try to find a solution.
OK, I'll try this again. In the past, maps were rejected because there were already a good number of them, and a simple population graph was rejected because it was, well, simple. So, I will suggest this graph instead, which has more substance to it and isn't unappealing. Hopefully this option can resolve the subjectivity problem in that section and bring this article in line with similar sections in other articles. As has been the principle, it is most relevant to use a visual displaying demographic information in the Demographics section. Anyway, here is the picture taken from the article Demographics of India:
The Behnam 23:58, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
The Behnam, I do agree with you in that a chart of some sort would be the only possible option, however, if we all start putting in our own replacement images, nothing is going to happen. Thats why i urge you to hold off on the replacement and vote just on whether you feel the Apatani image is relevant. We can talk about the replacement later on. If we do it now, nothing will ever happen as shown in the past. Nikkul 14:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, let us solve this problem once and for all (please sign the appropriate column).
I hope this will solve the problem once and for all. If sufficient "Retaining" support is reached, the image will be kept. If sufficient "Removal" support is reached, we can discuss on what new image to put before removing the Apatani image altogether. BTW, after this discussion is over, perhaps a copy of it can by put in the talk page's FAQ. Thank you. Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 18:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Just vote. No comments here, Just retain or reject
People in favor of RETAINING the Apatani image:
People in favor of REMOVING the Apatani image:
Unfortunately, user dab fails to realize that this is an encyclopedia not a myspace. We show the truth not someone's opinion of what boring is and what peculiar is. Also, an image does not have to represent the "boring" average at all. Don't most Indians celebrate Diwali? We can have a diwali picture (which is not boring at all, but is very common in India). Chart wise I like the religion chart since most people dont know the breakup of India in terms of religion. Please click this link: Nikkul 00:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Indische_religionen.jpg
Even the graph posted above by user:Nikkul is quite good. -- Knowledge Hegemony 07:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
The reason the images on the German India site are good is because I have placed many of them there, and unlike here, they have been accepted. Keep in mind that the german India site is also a featured article. Nikkul 15:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Universeatom, Judging from past discussions, I think its better to vote on replacements now because many people will want to keep the image till a better graphy is found, and that vote will be cast as a keep even though it does not necessarily mean that. The link to the past discussion is up there somewhere. Nikkul 15:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
See the funny thing is: we're already getting divided by the replacement images, so nothing is going to get accomplished since there wont be a clear majority. But if we talk about just removing the Apatani image, some will vote keep till a replacement is found. And even though that means remove after replacement is found, it will be counted as a keep and those four or five votes (keep till replacement is found) will determine the vote as show before. So the only way to actually get something done is to vote on keeping or removing the Apatani image while not counting any vote that is keep till replacement is found (because that can also equal remove after replacement is found). Any comments???
Actually if we find a replacement image, and all agree to it, then we might be good because the last vote, most people voted remove or remove after replacement is found (which equals keep till replacement is found) so if we all decide on an replacement image, we should be good. I dont know sooo confusing. Nikkul 00:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Universe=atom, the reason no regular editor is voting or participating in this rehash-of-a-debate is because this issue has already been discussed to death and the consensus established that the Apatani image should be retained unless a clearly superior image has been found/created. See the link that F&F provided above and note the discussion about what type of replacement image would be preferable. Also read WP:Consensus#Asking the other parent, from which I quote:
A good sign that you have not demonstrated a change in consensus, so much as a change in the people showing up, is if few or none of the people involved in the previous discussion show up for the new one.
Seriously do you believe that repeatedly discussing the Apatani image is the most productive use of our precious time on wikipedia ? In contrast, please see the amazing effort User:Fowler&fowler is investing nowadays in improving the Indian mathematics article. Hope we all can emulate that! Regards. Abecedare 16:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
If the Apatani people get their image put on Wiki, what about Kashmiri people? Marathi people? UP people? Tamil Nadu people? They deserve to have their image on the site as well. Why are the Apatanis favored? it really is ridiculious. Note that Kashmiri, Marathi, UP, Tamil Nadu people are multi-million strong. Nikkul 01:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
A Note to fellow voters:
Though Wikipedia's primary method of determining consensus is discussion, not voting. Editors occasionally use straw polls in an attempt to test for consensus, polls or surveys may actually impede rather than assist discussion. They should be used with caution, if at all, and may not be treated as binding.
Sign with "# ~~~~" on the end of the list of the article you want to vote. Opposing votes are not counted; see approval voting. Only a single vote is valid.
Replace
Support:-
Keep without any changes(ie.leave the article as it currently is)
Support:-
Keep but add another along with it
Support:-
This is stupid! =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Still, I feel we should be more open to improvements to this already very good article. As far as the text is concerned its excellent. But if you compare the pictures to that of Australia, Germany, Japan and Pakistan this article lacks images. Not a single picture of any landscape in a natural resource rich country as India.
This debate will never end will it? The reason why the Aptani image was chosen was because 1. It comes from NE India giving the page a regional balance and 2. it is a featured picture. So by all means change it, BUT get a suitable replacement for NE India without disturbing the regional balance or section relavence and 2. Get the image featured! =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I am a frequent reader of Wikipedia. I dont edit, but my schoolwork requires me to use the site a lot. I have just realized that the talk pages of each article are more interesting than the article itself. Anyway, when I read an article, I do not see any difference between a featured image or a normal image (that shows a lot). So i just wanted to comment on that since you people are discussing this and since editors probably dont see it through a readers perspective. Anyway I respect what you do. Thanks 68.36.160.96 19:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
While the article claims to have a spoken version, all I can hear is the Indian national anthem playing. Did somebody replace the original recording?-- Seraphiel 10:39, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
So can someone with Java installed try out the link above?-- Seraphiel 10:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
From the vote taken a few weeks ago [10], here are the results:
Those Who Favor Replacement [11]: The Behnam, Sarvagnya, Abecedare, Nikkul, Effer, Sumanth, Haphar, Blacksun, Indianstar, Naresh, Ambuj Saxena
Those Who Favor Retainment [7]: Fowler&fowler, Ragib, Ekantik, Gizza, Saravask, Nichalp, Madhu
It's certainly not as black and white as you put it. Please read the comments carefully before assuming that people voted in entiretly for removing/keeping. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I took a closer look at the previous vote and here is what I found.
The results of the previous vote were as follows -
Remove: Users The Behnam, Sarvagyna, Ekantik, Nikkul, Effer, Sumanth, Indianstar, Naresh, Incman, and Khazadum. + Chanakyathegreat. universe=atom, Total votes: 12.
Conditional keep(ie., "remove if replaced by a graph") - Users Ragib, Abecedare, Ambuj.Saxena, Blacksun, dab. Total: 5
Keep: Haphar, Gizza, Nichalp, Saravask, Madhu, Fowler&fowler, Chanakyathegreat, Maquahuitl, BovineBeast, and user:129.125.7.218. Total votes: 9
Now since we have a very good replacement in Image:India_population_density_map_en.svg, it is fair to count the "conditional keep"s as remove.
That would bring the tally to,
Unless there are any objections in the next few days, I will replace the existing Apatani pic with the pic above. Sarvagnya 08:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Adding a map of India will solve all problems since it includes all of India. This debate going on for such a long time. Beats all records of negotiations. A.K Anthony can be proud that his department is much better. Chanakyathegreat 09:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! MUBARAK HO! THE PROBABLY-LONGEST-NEGOTIATIONS IN THE WORLD HAS BEEN PEACEFULLY RESOLVED AFTER LONG MONTHS OF DISCUSSIONS! CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE HERE! Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 20:30, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank god. Nikkul 01:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I am surprised to see Delhi as 'Union Teritory' under the section 'Administrative divisions'
Delhi has been a State since many years and I am surprised not to see it in States list.
It says article got updated on 26 may 2007. Even then delhi is not a state according to this article.
I hope it gets corrected soon.
Thanks,
Nitin
nitinoct@yahoo.com
-- Nitinoct 06:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 15:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
It's an error on their part.
=Nichalp «Talk»= 17:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 06:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 14:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone thought of getting pictures from NE India featured? I'm sure our resident scout Nikkul can get some good ones. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:46, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm guessing that he'd like to counter bias...-- Seraphiel 10:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I think we should first think about getting pictures from NE. Then we can get them featured (which is not a requirement). I think we should replace the Ajanta caves pic with one from the NE to create regional balance since BSE already represents central india. Nikkul 11:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Since Ajanta Caves and BSE both represent Western India, and since there is no pic from NE India, we should replace the Ajanta Caves image with a historic pic from the NE. Once we do have a pic, Nichalp, we should try to get it featured. Nikkul 11:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I know that all these images relate to the Himalayas, but that is what Northeast India is famous for. Also, please add more images relating to NE India if you find more good ones. Thank you. Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 15:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Moved to Wikipedia talk:Notice board for India-related topics#Indian Copyright Law =Nichalp «Talk»= 11:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Problems with the Toda Hut Image:
The reason why the Toda image is there is because no other picture represents South India. Unfortunately, the Toda image does not represent the culture of South India. We should change the Toda hut image and replace it with an image that represents more of South Indian culture.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nikkul ( talk • contribs). at 11:51, 30 May 2007.
I wouldn't push my luck if I were you Nikkul for fear that I might awaken some sleeping giants. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW- a little off this topic, I replaced the BSE pic with another(which is without wires hanging and the satellite). The new pic is taken from a different angle hiding the ugly satellite. worth mentioning both pics were taken by Nichalp Knowledge Hegemony 16:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Images should be pertinent and featured and I have no adversity towards rural images as long as they represent most of the rural areas. What I do not like is having images of very very very small groups representing a culture of a huge country. Say, hypothetically, there are a 100 people in India who dance around a fire and live in holes in the ground. They eat leaves for lunch and never wear clothes. Could we put an image of them dancing around a fire semi-naked as an image representing the culture of India? If we follow Nichalp's logic, They might be part of Indian culture (since they are Indian) and yes, they do deserve to be on Wiki India... but then dont Keralites, Maharastrians, Todas, Apatanis, Tamil Nadu people, Assamese, Kashmiri's, also deserve to be on the page? Who's going to decide which group deserves to be on the page? Nikkul 17:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Nichalp, an image must not have to be featured in order to be on this page. Yes, it would be a plus, but it should not be a requirement. Also, a Toda hut is not apposite in the culture section since there is no mention of housing in that section. Nikkul 23:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Considering that Indian history and culture is steeped in dynasties, empires, princely states and royalties, I feel this pic of the Mysore palace wouldnt be out of place in this article. The pic believe me, also makes a great wallpaper.
Few words to put the pic in context - It is easily one of the finest(if not the finest) palaces anywhere in India and also belongs to the Wodeyars who ruled from this palace until independence and the last king Sri Jayachamarajendra Wodeyar(who I believe continued as the Governer of the modern Indian state of Mysore/Karnataka) even retained the palace until 1974. That makes this palace and the Wodeyar dynasty probably one of the last(may even be the last) of the princely states to fold. The architect of this palace was Sir Henry Irwin who also is the hand behind several such structures of exceeding grandeur across India. This palace patronised arts and artists from across South India and several legendary artists from across South India found patronage at this palace. The biggest names in Indian(not just South Indian) music and dance continue to perform at this palace every year during the Mysore Dasara celebrations. The architecture of this palace is a supreme example of the Indo-Saracenic style which in some ways is a fusion of Indian, colonial/European and Islamic styles. If somebody doesnt like this particular pic, I am sure other pics of the palace arent difficult to find Sarvagnya 05:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand. Why the Mysore Palace? If you're looking for Indo-Islamic and Victorian-Gothic fusion styles, the Victoria Terminus is clearly the pre-eminent example, and the only one on the UNESCO World Heritage List (WHL), see here. (And even for strict Indo-Saracenic, I can think of many others.) I agree with Nichalp that quality is better. Since the process of making it to the WHL is painstakingly rigorous, why not have the UNESCO World Heritage list as a benchmark for "high culture" content and Wikipedia Featured Picture for picture quality? I agree too with Abededare (who has already spoken eloquently to it on these pages) that the Taj and Toda make a balanced pair high art and folk art. I agree with Sarvagyna that the Taj frontal view is cliched and I remember he himself suggesting some pictures of the Taj from different angles. Why don't we submit those pictures for FP consideration? Fowler&fowler «Talk» 13:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
If that is true (that the Toda image has been around for a long time), then why don't we replace it with the Sari image (which is also a featured image) and suits the contents of the culture section?
The brocade is a Indo-Islamic art form and the sari is mentioned in apparel. We can then nominate other appropriate images for FP consideration (including the Mysore Palace). As I had mentioned in Archive 24, there are two pictures on flicker.com that I like. Both pictures were taken by a gentleman called Captain Suresh, who seems to be a good photographer. The first one has a group of boys playing cricket on the sandy river bank with the Taj Mahal as a backdrop (see here). (It has the advantage that it combines sport and architecture, both of relevance to the culture section.) The other, my personal favorite, has some women and girls resting and seeking shelter from the mid-day sun, again with the Taj gleaming the background (see here). The second picture too combines architecture with apparel (sari and salwar kameez), both themes of the culture section.) What do people think of these pictures? If there is enthusiasm, we could go to the next step. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
The Lotus Temple and Mahabodhi Temple. How are the pics?--- Knowledge Hegemony 15:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)-
There is no requirement that all images on a featured article must be featured as well
Nichalp, I don't see why you view featured image status as a requirement. It's not a requirement. I dont think having two pictures of buildings shows Indian culture. Perhaps a picture of Diwali or a dance of some sort. Taj Mahal should stay Nikkul 17:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I see that people still cling to this completely misguided bias in favor of 'featured pictures' despite the fact that WP:Images#Image choice and placement favors relevance (as I have pointed out previously). With this in mind I think that we should decide what sort of picture is most relevant to the culture of India. While I'm not Indian, I am not under the impression that the Toda Hut is a major part of Indian culture, and according to what someone said above, it isn't even common where it once was. So I'm inclined to oppose its use. Yet I think that it is impossible to sum of India's culture with two pictures unless there is something that can really be agreed upon as representative. The brocade is a good example and I think it may be good to use in the section. But I have another question: why does this section need two pictures? Taj Mahal couldn't rightly be excluded from the India article (despite being cliche), but do we really need a second picture here? The Behnam 19:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
The Mysore palace is not only a fine example of Hindu, Muslim and Gothic styles but it is also a center of fine arts. Artists ranging from Parveen Sultana to Bhimsen Joshi to MS Subbalakshmi, from Birju Maharaj to Padma Subramanyam, from Pt Vishwa Mohan Bhat to Mandolin Srinivas to Zakir Hussain all perform at this venue regularly. Artists from across India would kill to get a chance to perform at this place. Fowler's ignorance clearly shows when he compares this to the Victoria Terminus. VT may very well be an architectural wonder, but I cant see how a railway station can be a cultural icon on the same plane as the Mysore palace. I also cant think of many places in India that can boast of the history and grandeur and that can also boast of playing host to such diverse arts and artists as the Mysore palace. This palace keeps a tradition of the Vijayanagara empire alive to this day by organising the 'world famous' Mysore Dasara and the Jumbo Savari for which millions of tourists throng to Mysore every year. Mysore Dasara incidentally is the state festival of Karnataka apart from the fact that Dasara is also big in Bengal(East) and Gujarat(west). Millions of tourists also come to just see the palace. I neither can think of any Parveen Sultana or Bade Ghulam Ali Khan singing on the VT platforms nor can I think of millions of tourists thronging to VT just to "see" it. The credentials of the Mysore palace as a cultural icon is second to none. Sarvagnya 19:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I have added the classic picture of the Taj by Samuel Bourne for Featured picture consideration at WP:FPC Please vote your support or oppostion. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 01:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
An image of the Taj under the history section does not necessarily have to be taken a long time ago. Nikkul 01:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
The comparision between 1865 and now doesn't make much sense given the overwhelming temporal non-uniformness of precipitation in the Indian subcontinent -- On an average 90-odd days of flood and practically no rain for the remaining 275 days in the year. It all depends upon the time of the year were these two photos taken. deeptrivia ( talk) 01:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
This particular image is titled Toda Temple. It looks exactly like the Toda hut image we have! Knowledge Hegemony 14:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
While we are fighting over relatively less important topics here in this talk page, several India-related articles are in need of attention. Two India-related Featured articles are Featured article removal candidate now — Rail transport in India and Geography of India. the FARCs are here and here. Please help improve the articles so that the FA status can be retained.
This talk page is probably not the correct place to inform about the FARCs. However, this being one of the most-watched India-related talk pages, I'm advertising here. Regards.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 18:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Unless you are nominating a famous picture, or are absolutely sure about the quality of a photograph, it is a good idea to get your picture reviewed first at WP:PPR before nominating it to WP:FPC. That way, you get some feedback from the Wikipedia photo editors, and don't create a backlog at FPC. If your photograph is worthy, they will themselves promote it to the FPC process. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
We should replace the Toda Hut Image With One of the Pictures Below Because:
Please add images that could replace the Toda Hut image only
Please disuss the replacement of the Toda hut image only. Thanks
Agree with Dab. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The article History of India is a candidate for Wikipedia:Article Creation and Improvement Drive (shortened to WP:ACID). However, just a day or two ago, it became overdue. However, we can still save it by voting for it ASAP. Please excuse my posting of this non-India-article-related comment. However, I knew that this talk page was the one most watched by a group of Indians who might want to get India-related articles featured. If you don't want the article to be cut from the list due to being overdue, please go to the page ( WP:ACID) and vote ASAP. Thank you very much. Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 14:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
We are representing TODA with few thousands huts as India culture. Taj is excellent...why Mysore Palace? Mughal contribution is not the only contribution. Life of the masses in India revolves around temples. There are many South Indian and North Indian temples, we now need picture of temple to represent ancient and modern culture of millions of masses. Secularism on this article is welcomed, But pseudo-secularism is bad! This article should remain secular but definately not pseudo-secular. Holy Ganga talk 22:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
the history section of india can use some improving 59.183.178.56 06:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The Taj Mahal isn't one of the seven "wonder of the world" as is claimed in the caption of the pic. It didn't even exist when this list was made. It is however one of the "touristic wonders".
Let's all vote for the Taj on the Seven New Wonders of The World
here
Nikkul
01:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I provided a reference in the infobox for the statement that the Rupee is the national currency of India. However, it was deleted by Abecedare, saying that it was not necessary because it could not be disputed. Perhaps, though, a reference should be provided for it because the fact is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. Also, there is no "Main Article" for it (except the link provided by it, but I guess links do not count). Also, it should not matter whether a statement is disputed or not; how would someone coming from a tribe in Africa know that the Rupee is the currency; perhaps he might dispute it. I have posted this in the talk page because I did not want to engage in an edit war. Universe=atom Talk• Contributions 19:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
U=a, I think you might not be allowed to have an "=" sign in the signature, since it interferes with the output of the Wikicode: {{user|Universe=atom}} and produces: User-multi error: no username detected ( help)., instead of the usual output. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 02:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what the hell the Indians are doing on this talk page. We have discussions about difference in Toda Hut and Toda Temple, but it seems no one has bothered to see the wrong map put under the name of Location of India, it shows J & K belonging to Pakistan. Remove this map and have an original map or no map at all. All Indians support this Cause.
67.173.165.210 03:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)Hemendra Bhatia 67.173.165.210 ( talk · contribs · count)
Now, I'm not really sure what the anon was talking about. The locator map looks the same as the Indian-controlled territory as shown in Image:India-states-numbered.svg (which BTW is quite self-explanatory in showing the status quo). As for anything else, see Talk:India/FAQ. -- Ragib 01:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Please help improve article Tourism in India. We can make that article a featured article in wikipedia. cheers. Lara bran 07:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I am thinking about adding the following links to the "Government" subsection of the "External Links" section. Please give your feedback.
Please add more to this proposed list if you can find more. Thank you. Universe=atom Talk• Contributions 16:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Doesnt the Indus Valley Civilization denote an ancient area that now currently resides in Pakistan along the Indus river from which it derives its name from. Apart from a few scant areas located over the border near the Pakistani province of Sindh, the bulk of the Indus Valley is inherently tied to the country of Pakistan. Why has has it been written that India is the home of the Indus Valley Civilization? Can someone please remove this erroneous entry. kind regards 130.63.161.200
Can anybody come up with a solution to decrease the number of brackets.-- Knowledge Hegemony 06:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
It says India's economy is 4042 trillion in the fact box. -- Blacksun 09:33, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
As per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries#Holidays, this article should have a table that lists the holidays of India. Also, as it says on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries/Article_Classification#Featured_articles, this is one the country FA's in Wikipedia that does not have a holidays' table. Is there one on Wikipedia to put in this article? If not, the format in the first link should be used to make one. Also, where should it be put? Universe=atom Talk• Contributions 15:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
I have found a couple of grammar mistakes in this article, including the following :
1. According to http://owl.english.purdue.edu/handouts/grammar/g_comma.html , commas should be used "to separate three or more words." Most of the times in this article, commas have been used to separate the first from the second, the second from the third, etc. but not the last from the second last. Examples include the following (places where commas should be put are in bold print): "Four major world religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism originated here, while Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism arrived..."(second paragraph of introduction) "led by the Indo-Greeks, Indo-Scythians, Indo-Parthians and Kushans..."(second paragraph of history section) "such as the Chalukyas, Cholas, Pallavas and Pandyas..." (second paragraph of history section) "including Portugal, Netherlands, France and the United Kingdom..." (third paragraph of history section) "including INC, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), Communist Party of India (CPI) and various regional parties." (first paragraph of politics section) "including bharatanatyam, kathakali, kathak, kuchipudi, manipuri, odissi and yakshagana" (second paragraphs of culture section) "as ingredients, spices and cooking methods"(third paragraphs of culture section) "coastal states of West Bengal, Goa and Kerala..."(fifth paragraph of culture section) "...to the ancient martial arts, kalarippayattu and Varma Kalai"(fifth paragraph of culture section) "
2. Various other grammar mistakes include the following (bold areas indicate where changes should be made): "...although Cricket is the..."(capitalization mistake: fifth paragraph of culture section) "India is home to two major linguistic families: Indo-Aryan..." (second paragraph of demographics section: perhaps it should be changed to "India is home to the following two major linguistic families:") "India has three archipelagos — Lakshadweep, which lies off the southwestern coast; the volcanic Andaman and Nicobar Islands island chain to the southeast, and the Sunderbans in the Ganges Delta of West Bengal."(why is there a semicolon between the first and second clauses but only a comma between the second and third clauses?); Whenever statistics relating to money are given in USA, the symbol put before the number is US$, which, according to me, should be changed to either USD or plain $, not a combination of both. Johnsmithcba 17:31, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
It may be used in American English and not usually in British English, but according to most professors of the English language, even in India, the serial comma indicates formal writing, no matter what type of English it is. Is not Wikipedia a former encyclopedia? Johnsmithcba 18:05, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Replying to your statement, why is it that only some of the series in this article don't have the last comma, while most of them do? Is not that a contradiction, sort of like a paradox? I only picked out the ones that don't have a comma before the last item in the series, but there are even more that do have it. Johnsmithcba 18:55, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I have corrected the semicolon in the geography and cricket in culture. As for dollars, US$ is accepted, as with USD ( ISO 4217). $ is ambigious so we do not use. Please aquaint yourself with the WP:MoS before making further proposals. =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:50, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
One last thing concerning the serial comma. Why is that most series in this article follow the serial comma, but some (the ones that I have listed) do not. Should not it be made consistent, so the whole article either follows the serial comma or does not at all? Johnsmithcba 11:31, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Per
Serial_comma#Usage, the serial comma is also used in British English, for example, in Oxford Univ. Style. --
Ragib
07:55, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
In the intro section, the page lists the names of important cities. Hre "Pune" must be included, as it is one of the most importan cities (7th largest city, IT capital, and "Oxford" of East) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaydeep.godbole ( talk • contribs) 08:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC).
Does not anyone think that there should be a new picture of the Indian parliament replacing the one given now in the Politics section, one which would picture it in the daytime and would give it a bit more closeup of it? Universe=atom 16:51, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Same suggestion given on the same page ref:Sansad bhavan pic not good. Please discuss there. -- 59.182.34.192 10:57, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
It's nice, but what about the following picture: http://www.iloveindia.com/images/parliament.jpg Universe=atom 17:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, then where can we get a better picture of the parliament, considering that the current one should be removed. If one can not be found, perhaps there should not be a picture of the parliament altogether but instead another picture relating to Indian politics. Universe=atom 14:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
The current one was contributed by me and was a much better picture than the previous one (where only a third of the pic was the parliament building and the rest was a Maruti van and the road. Flickr is the place to get good pictures. You can always find a pic and ask its owner to change the copywright. Thats how many of the images are brought to wikipedia. Nikkul 12:15, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Why does etymology section does not discuss etymology of word Bharat? Can somebody have a look at it?
And the sentense "The Constitution of India and common usage in Hindi also recognise Bharat ......" should be "The Constitution of India and common usage in Indian languages also recognise Bharat ......" Bharat is the name used by most of the Indian languages(in GUjrathi, Marathi, Tamil, Bengali, Telugu, Malayalam, Tulu, Konkani,Kannada and Hindi). We should also include the etymology of Bharat. It is wrong to say India is the common name used but it is only used by Enlish speaking Urban Indians. Do not forget that 70% of Indians live in rural areas.
there is a full discussion at Etymology_of_the_names_of_India#Bharat. dab (𒁳) 13:38, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Should not there be added additional links to main articles in the government section? For example, the following:
Main Article: Government of India Sub Articles: - Politics_of_India#Central_and_State_Governments#Legislative_branch - Politics_of_India#Central_and_State_Governments#Judicial_branch
I am suggesting this because in the "Government of India" section, it talks about all of the three branches. Should not there be links to sub-main-articles for each of the three branches, leading into a more detailed account of each branch. Universe=atom 19:07, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Why is it so that in the External Links section, the second link in the "Government" sub-section overlaps the audio file template? Universe=atom 15:22, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, it's my mistake. The computer I was looking at had a lower screen resolution. It's ok with computers with normal view settings. Again, sorry. Universe=atom 13:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I feel the introduction of India is not very effective. It is only in the second paragraph that Indus Valley civilization is mentioned whereas the first paragraph talks about India being the seventh largest country in size and that it shares international boundaries with many other countries. I believe that introduction should be the "first things first" way and it is a fact (one of which all Indians are truly proud of) that India is the cradle to one of the 4 (or 5 if we count Greece) ancient civilizations.
When I was not satisfied with the "India" introduction, just out of curiosity, I checked the article on China (one of the other great ancient civilizations) and found it so strong that am reproducing the stronger bits here:
"... (China) is a cultural region, ancient civilization, and nation in East Asia. It is one of the world's oldest civilizations, consisting of states and cultures dating back more than six millennia..." "China is one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations. It has the world's longest continuously used..."
The first extract is from the 1st paragraph. Even the 2nd para starts with emphasis on China being an ancient civilization (the second extract).
We should highlight Indus Valley right in the first para instead of relegating it to the second paragraph. Thanks Kunjite 18:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Okay, got your point of view on the introduction/lead Dwaipayan. Kunjite 20:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Since most of the corrections of grammar mistakes that I make in this article are reverted, I shall list them here. Please express your views, for that is the only way I can know if the mistake should be corrected, or if it is a mistake at all.
For now, that is all. If you find the previous examples as mistakes, please change them, for I have already tried to do so but have failed, since people have reverted my changes and told me to discuss changes in the talk pages, as I have just done so. Universe=atom 18:49, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
-- 59.182.18.175 08:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply, but what exactly do you mean by "pointwise?" Universe=atom 10:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
-- KnowledgeHegemony 06:46, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I have edited my mistakes to make them point-wise. Please tell me your opinions on the mistakes, for if I do not receive any opinions, I will go ahead and correct all these mistakes. Universe=atom 15:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
There has been a lot of activity since the 'protected' template was removed which has resulted in some undesirous changes and also vandalism. -- 59.182.20.146 13:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Instead of the current picture of the Toda hut in the culture section, and the picture of the peacock in the Flora and Fauna section, how would the following pictures look, each respectively replacing their counterparts mentioned above:?
Please give your feedback. Universe=atom 15:30, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Since the topic has been broached again below, I am reducing the last three posts below Fowler&fowler «Talk» 16:37, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
someone should fix the first heading "ajay is gay" because some kid thought it would be funny to see their "work" on the internet. I do not know what this should be titled so i will not change it.
There are reasons I suggested these pictures. The peacock, first of all, is of a bit too much close-up. The feathers cover the whole picture; if there is to be a picture of the peacock, perhaps it would be better to make it of a bit less zoom. The picture of the toda hut, second of all, has nothing to do with the context of the text where it is put. The picture of the traditional Indian cuisine, though, would be in place with the text, as there is a paragraph right above the picture that talks about the cuisine. About the picture of the Indian climate, does anybody have any suggestions? Universe=atom 16:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, sorry, but the average temperatures map does not fit in the geography section. Instead, how would the following picture look:
Please give your feedback. Universe=atom 18:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
What are you talking about; also, please do not post comments not relating to the pictures section here but rather on my talk page. Universe=atom 14:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
So, is anybody for or against the image of the climatic map of India (note: this is not the same one as the annual temperatures map)? I think it would it would suit quite well in the second part of the "Geography" section, as the section, along with the geography of India in the first part, also talks about the climate of India (in the second part). Also, replying to earlier statements, the picture of the tiger, according to me, is a bit better than the peacock picture partially because the peacock has a bit too much closeup (at first sight, the peacock does not even look like a peacock; one has to observe it closely or read the text underneath it to find out that it is a peacock). Also, although it does matter about which is the national symbol of India and which is not, equally important is the quality/structure of the picture, especially if it is going to be put in a featured article like India; in this case, the picture of the tiger is of better structure; also, according to me (please note that not everybody may share my views) is more beautiful than the peacock. BTW, Abecedare, echoing what you said in talk archive 23, it does not matter if a picture is featured or not; it should be of good content. On the subject of the picture of the cuisine, I guess the Toda hut is better. Universe=atom 17:47, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
BTW, the Bengal tiger is also kind of like an unofficial national animal of India. Universe=atom 18:05, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Good point. Universe=atom 15:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
I am suggesting that the following image of the 1000 Rs. paper money be put into the "economy" section, partially because of the long length of the section:
Universe=atom 16:50, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Anyone got the Agni-III image. The Rupee image can be there in the economic section. I support it. Chanakyathegreat 13:23, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I could not find any picture of the Agni III on Wikipedia and no visually appealing picture of it on any other website that has a good copyright license. Is anybody else for the Rupee image in the Economy section? Universe=atom 14:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, Blacksun, the peacock may be the national bird of India, but the Bengal tiger is the national animal. Universe=atom 15:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Wealth distribution which is fairly uneven is found to be better than the certain developed countries like the United States and the fastest growing economy People's Republic of China. The section is updated accordingly. Chanakyathegreat 07:49, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
So you agree that by Gini index wealth distribution in India is better than the U.S. Forget Rwanda and Pakistan. We are not discussing about them. Even if there is no wealth you get equality. Now when it comes to larger economies like India having better equality in wealth distribution is thing that cannot be disregarded. When India in a better postion then the wordings used are not correct. And the next sentence by the Australian reporter who considers 47% Indian school children at the primary level equivalent to Half of India's population and concludes that half of Indian's are not benifitted by economic reforms is very funny. Chanakyathegreat 15:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 03:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
OK, here is my proposed replacement:
Indian economy has grown steadily over the past few decades, but progress has been uneven among social and economic groups, across regions, states and the urban-rural divide. Though income inequality in India is still relatively low, it has been rising and despite significant progress, roughly quarter of India's population still falls under the poverty line and child malnutrition rates are higher than any other country in the world.
The whole passage can be referenced to the World Bank 2006 report listed above (see esp. page 1 and 17-27). Comments, revision etc welcome! Abecedare 05:12, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
The Indian economy has grown steadily over the last two decades; however, its growth has been uneven when comparing different social groups, economic groups, geographic regions, and rural and urban areas. Although income inequality in India is relatively small, it has been increasing of late. Despite significant economic progress, a quarter of the nation's population earns less than the government-specified poverty threshold of $0.40/day. In addition, India has more undernourished children than any country in the world: 46% of the country's children under the age of three suffer from malnutrition.
Please feel free to change in any way you want. Your World Bank 2006 reference looks good. Here, BTW, is the latest report (Indian Health Department and UNICEF) on childhood malnutrition from late February 2007: The Times, London: Indian children suffer more malnutrition than in Ethiopia. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 16:08, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I have replaced the paragraph in the Economy section (
diff) as per F&F's revised version above. Some final tweaks that I made:
Further revisions welcome ... as always. Abecedare 18:56, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
The sentence has been corrected and made more accurate. In addition, India has a higher rate of malnutrition in the world among children under the age of three, who are not covered by free meals at school. Chanakyathegreat 13:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
You removed the main part. The reason. Chanakyathegreat 13:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
Here is my take:
Aside: Although ~25% poverty rate in India is pretty high, it is down from ~50% rate (using same definition) in 1980 hence I think the "significant progress" is as noteworthy as the raw statistic. Also (for my personal curiosity), is there a source for the $0.40/day metric ? According to [1] (footnte on page 2) the GOI standard is based on available calories. Abecedare 22:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Indiastar for listing the concrete objections. Here is my analysis:
"There are three dimensions to the increase in income inequality. As discussed earlier, improvements in mean urban incomes outpaced rural incomes, widening the gulf between rural and urban India. Interstate inequalities widened as rich states grew faster than poor states. Within-state urban inequality also rose, reversing a previously declining trend (Sen and Himanshu 2005)." (page 24)
"India’s rapid progress in the 1990s has not been uniformly shared among its people. As documented in chapter 1, income inequality has risen, although India still has a relatively balanced distribution of income by global standards." (page 165)
"This prudent approach has sidestepped major shocks, and the changes in inequality consequent upon these reforms have been modest by the standards of, say, the transition economies. Rural inequality has risen at a slower pace than have urban and overall inequality. The rise in inequality has been the result of three factors: (i) a shift in earnings from labour to capital income, (ii) the rapid growth of the services sector – particularly the FIRE sector2 – with a consequent explosion in demand for skilled workers and (iii) a drop in the rate of labour absorption during the reform period. There has also been an increase in regional inequality, especially in the incidence of rural poverty. This rise in inequality has implied that, despite better growth, poverty reduction has been sluggish." (page 3)
I apologize for this looong reply, but hopefully I have addressed the points you raised. Regards. Abecedare 03:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm sure we should be able to find a source for this. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:45, 1 May 2007 (UTC)The Indian poverty line (which is the inflation-adjusted amount that would have bought 2400 calories in food per person per day in rural areas and 2100 calories in urban areas in 1973) is now Rs. 540 per month, or $12 per month (at the Rs 45 = $1 exchange rate), or 40 cents per day. This assumes that the entire income of Rs. 540 is being spent on food. With this definition of the poverty line (ie. 40 cents per day), the proportions of Indians below the poverty line is 23% or 25% (depending on what statistics one quotes).
It will be worthy to add these two, keeping in mind the 'cricket loving' and 'film crazy' countrymen. India without mention of Cricket and the film industry is incomplete. How it can be 'sub-topic'ed can be seen in the article- Germany (also a featured article). One can also take a tip of how climate is written under Geography. Just a suggestion...
At least some mention of Cricket and Bollywood or the South Indian film industry. Even the World Book mentions them. -- 59.182.49.116 15:33, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
subtopics of cricket n Films not there but they r mentioned in the Culture para!-- 59.182.30.216 14:00, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
A seperate section can be created for sports. Like in the FA Japan and Germany. Chanakyathegreat 12:19, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
In the second opening paragraph it is rightly stated: "Four major world religions, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism originated here".
But without a source it looks "incomplete". -- 59.182.33.156 16:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
I have a source- origins of major religions by http://www.sacred-texts.com Can someone please insert it!. ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 08:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Please correct the follwoing mistake : New Delhi is a state and not a union territory in India —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gr rathi ( talk • contribs) 19:25, 27 April 2007 (UTC).
See the faq of the article! -- 59.182.30.216 13:58, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, the image has been bothering me quite a bit recently, in an otherwise almost perfect article. I think I might have voted for keeping it in the past but it seems to make less and less sense the more I think about it. The tribal woman's image in demographics makes sense and their is good reasoning for it but the Toda hut, despite being a nice picture, seems very out of place in the culture section. The biggest argument in favor of keeping the image, I believe, has been that it is FA image. However, I think it fails miserably in representing any significant culture. I mean, if you want to show tribal culture, their must be better images that can be found to depict that. I believe that of all the potential images that can be picked in the culture section, this would be somewhere at the bottom of the list. It just does not fit in the space it has been put into, imho. Not to mention, I do not think the image is supported by any kind of text in the culture section. How about an image of a popular classical musician or bollywood - things that are actually mentioned in the culture section. -- Blacksun 09:54, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
No where in the culture section does it mention housing. and also, the toda people do not represent all of south india, which used to be another arguement for the image. Nikkul 13:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
(reproduced from above)
Why is it a stretch? It certainly is about art and design. As for your other assertions, I can only repeat what I said above: we went through a long enervating process in mid-March and a majority wanted both the Apatani and Toda pictures in. I understand that there is no explicit WP policy, but we can't keep having these debates every 6 weeks because one or two persons change their minds. Let's wait a little longer before we revist the issue. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Even after 2 to 3 months, I still dont see why small tribes like the Apantis and Todas get favors when it comes to pictures rather than the MAJORITY which forms India. I have serious doubts that most Indians wake up in toda huts.
1400 Todas / 1000000000 Indians = .00014 % of Indians are Toda.
Why should they get half of the culture section's images? Is their culture followed by the majority of Indians? This is an encyclopedia. It describes OVERALL indian culture. The toda image is TOO SPECIFIC. Nikkul 01:37, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Finding it difficult to replace two images. Why not the
Golden temple and in the demograhic section a chart that shows the poverty reduction graph or a population of India map.
Chanakyathegreat 13:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The map already exists. [5] Now how many here support placing this image in the demograhic section. Chanakyathegreat 03:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
The Ajanta caves image is barely distinguisable and is a very poor representation of Indian history. Nikkul 12:00, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Nikkul 13:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
The rock paintings of Bhimbetka will be suitable for the history section. There are many paintings and the best one can be selected. Chanakyathegreat 12:57, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
One more image [6] of the Konark sun temple. Chanakyathegreat 13:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
The Bank Note image is not free, and is copyrighted. Fair use claims are not applicable to trivial mentions of the note, as done via the caption in this page. I have removed the image, as it is not necessary for this article.
-- Ragib 17:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank god! I didnt find it appropriate anyway. Nikkul 01:38, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Please note that the president & the prime minister of India are both Doctorate. They need to be called Dr.A. P. J. Abdul Kalam & Dr.Manmohan Singh, respectively. 61.17.98.39 09:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)Abhishek Math Good suggestion! Done! -- Deepak D'Souza ( talk • contribs) 09:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Recently it was added tht India is also called Aryavart. Whereas the article on Aryavart says it is wrong to call the whole of India Aryavart. They condradict ? -- ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 15:07, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
In the "Navigation" section that I recently merged out of the "External Links" section, the first template is the International Ties of India one, which lists all the international organizations of which India is part of. Then comes the Countries of Asia template; then, the Countries of South Asia template; then, the G15 template; then, the BRIC template. I was wondering if the templates of major organizations of which India is part of (e.g.: ASEEAN, WTO, SAARC, UN, ect.) should also be separately put (like the G15 and the BRIC, both of which are currently separately put). Regards. Universe=atom 18:48, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
-- ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 07:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
A third name, Hindustan ( Urdu/ Hindustani:هندوستان/हिंदुस्तान, Hindi: हिंदुस्तां), () ( Persian: Land of the Hindus), has been in use since the twelfth century. It is commonly used to refer to India in Urdu/ Hindustani. In Hindi, its usage is mainly for poetic effect.
Personally, I find Hindi-Urdu-Persian-Hindustani thing very confusing...
-- 59.182.6.215 08:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
In the "Military and foreign relations" section, the first two paragraphs are about foreign relations of India, while the subsequent paragraph talks about the military. This is in direct contradiction of the name of the section, which, at first sight, would suggest that the information about the military would come before the information about the foreign relations of India. Of the following tasks, which one should be executed: Change the name of the section to "Foreign relations and the military" (as it is in Australia [FA]), OR change the text and make the paragraph about the military come before the two paragraphs about the foreign relations? Regards. Universe=atom 18:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
the {{IndicText}} tag is being added and removed repeatedly. Lets discus peacefully ?
I support having the Indic tag, but not at the top. It drags the whole info box down and makes the article much harder to read. Even tho most would like the tag in the article, I dont think most people would like it at the top. Lets discuss other options of placement. Nikkul 19:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I think it should be below the infobox. Above it is too distracting. Nikkul 00:28, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Referring to 3rd template on top of this Talk page
When one clicks on [show] this is what it shows:-
→This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team. [hide]
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
I have added several {{fact}} templates (citations needed) to several places in the article. If possible, please give references. If references there are not needed or if a reference has already been provided for that piece of data near it, please do not hesitate to remove the {{fact}} template from there immediately, as I am not sure where references are needed and where they are not. See United States for the places where I think in an article references should be put. Regards. Universe=atom 15:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, U=a, you can't make the changes first and then bring them up on the talk page later. If you persist in these unilateral edits, we will begin to consider your changes instances of vandalism. As I have already told you before, this page doesn't need your help. The changes you make create a lot of work for others (in undoing them). That was true with your compulsive and en masse addition of fact tags (when you clearly don't understand what the summary style is about). Similarly, your "grammar mistakes" corrections are for the most part either incorrect themselves or merely bookish changes, that anyone with a working knowledge of modern English would not make. As I have said repeatedly earlier, there are lots of India-related pages that need help, and yet, you still keep insisting on working on a page that is a long-standing featured article and doesn't need help; why don't you help with the pages that need help? Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I submit that Universe=atom is not an example of a newcomer needing help and guidance, but rather someone who has a Wikipedia:Main article fixation. He has been editing for about a month now, and started out by Wikilinking every other word in sight on the Taj Mahal page, including (as you will observe here) one memorable edit where he linked words like "grave," "red," "marble," and "husband," (in four sections) and summarized by ("Introducing 132 more internal links"). Since those edits couldn't be simply undone (on account of later changes), user:Nemonoman had to spend an hour fixing them. When U=a was cautioned on his talk page, he responded by simply blanking the talk page and pretending to start anew. A month later, undaunted, he continues to make these en masse edits (be they so-called "grammar mistakes" or fact tags). Fowler&fowler «Talk» 21:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Dear Universe=atom, Here are some of the comments posted in the RfC, Adding New Material to the India Page, we had on this page in early February 2007. The comments in the collapsible navbox below are from experienced editors who have been working on Wikipedia articles for many years.
Expand to see contents |
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::* Comment - The limit on article size is important, otherwise, the tendency to add each and every bit of information makes articles grow beyond limits. The FA guidelines are strict, and adding more and more tidbits will create grounds for de-listing an article from FA status. Per
WP:SUMMARY, article sections should be summaries of content described in detail in sub-articles. So, I suggest adding new content ONLY to the sub articles and putting a brief, concise mention of it in the main article. The history section is already quite elaborate, and I don't see any scope of further lengthening the section. Please add the content to
History of India, which is the correct place to place details, per summary style. Thank you. --
Ragib
04:01, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
|
Thanks, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 21:46, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I am not at all asking you to try and mentor him. I am only pointing out that you have no right to browbeat him, push him around and in general, treat him disrespectfully. It is uncivil. And please stop dumping entire talk pages into one comment. Giving the relevant diff will do. Or atleast wrap them up in the retractable boxes. And can you point out which one of Ragib or dab or any of the others there condone being incivil and browbeating newbies to keep the article squeaky clean? And where was it ever decided that editors who edit this article have to first discuss it on the talk page? Do you realise that such a proposition is nonsensical and would be in violation of some of the most basic guidelines of the 'encyclopedia that anyone can edit'?(If you want to make your proposition a policy, you go discuss it first at the village pump!)
And what makes you think that a user who is only a month old ought to first read through reams and reams of archives before getting down to edit? As for excessive wikilinking, its perhaps one of the commonest mistakes that overly enthusiastic newbies are prone to. I have done it myself long long ago. And saying that those edits couldnt be undone because of intervening edits is funny. All you need to do is to put up an underconstruction or inuse tag, revert the wikilinks and then bring back perhaps the 'few' intervening edits. It will all be done in a few mins. If this is too much mopping up for you to do, then wait till somebody else cleans up or you could even ask the guy(U=A in this case) to clean up himself. As for the {{cn}}s, I can see where they're coming from. I myself added a "cn" recently to this article which U=A reverted. I reverted and asked him why and he said it was a mistake and that he didnt know what "cn" was. I explained it to him. And now, since he's learnt something new, he's very enthusiastically used it here. That is the way you'd see it if you assumed good faith. You owe U=A an apology. First, you rudely insinuate that he is a sock and now you try to bully him with rules you made up yourself on the fly. If you think he is someone's sock, go file a CU against him. Until then, be courteous and learn to assume good faith. Sarvagnya 22:42, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry for all the misunderstanding that my addition of fact templates has caused. What I said in my edit summary was that please refer to the talk page regarding my edit. In the talk page, I clearly stated that I was not sure of my edit and made it clear that if anyone thinks that they are not needed, they should not even give it a second thought but just revert it. I did not intend to give any hidden or subliminal message. Also, F&F, what do you mean by your statement, As I have already told you before, this page doesn't need your help. Four your information, I have each and every right to edit Wikipedia as any other out the four million users, whether he may be a plain IP address or an influential administrator. In the same paragprah, you also stated that my "grammar mistakes" corrections are for the most part either incorrect themselves or merely bookish changes, that anyone with a working knowledge of modern English would not make. If you think that my corrections of grammar mistakes are incorrect, please do not just simply revert them, with only you foolishly thinking that they are incorrect. Instead, go check a grammar manual and find out your own mistake about grammar. If you have a problem with the grammar mistakes that I correct, first look at your own grammar. For your information, when I usually make a grammar correction or suggest grammar changes (like in another section in this talk page), I usually give a professional grammatical explanation of what I think is wrong; then, I give an ordinary explanation, so ordinary-grammar-slacking people can understand it. In the same paragraph, you also included the following statement: ...you still keep insisting on working on a page that is a long-standing featured article and doesn't need help; why don't you help with the pages that need help? First of all, who do you think you are? Second of all, you do not have any right whatsoever to bully me about what articles I should edit and which articles I should not. As for the over wikilinking that I have previously done, I admit that it was wrong. However, soon, after being told, I realized my faults and edited carefully. I was also told to go to some wikipedia manuals and read the rules. Yes, I did that, found out some new things (including the link to names of places in other languages, which I put in the India article), but, of course, I cannot read every single rule and memorize each one of them. As for blanking my talk page, F&f, WHY DIDN'T YOU PUT THE SECOND PART OF THE STORY?!? Immediately, after being told that blanking your own talk page is considered wrong on wikipedia, I kindly asked for someone to revert my decision, as I did not know how to do so yet. So, Neonoman kindly did so (unlike some other rude users who would probably not even give a thought about doing so) and even left me a kind message about it. So, as it can be seen, yes, I made several mistakes in wikipedia, but I tried to learn from them and even asked others to help me by explaining some stuff (such as the fact template, kindly explained by Sarvagnya), because nobody (not even F&f) is perfect. As for your comment on my being a vandal, F&f, do you even know the meaning of the word vandal, considering that you think of my being a vandal? A vandal is, according the official wikipedia definition, any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia. Do you think that I deliberately tried to ruin the India article when I included a precise summary of what I was doing and even asked others to revert it if they thought it was inappropriate? As for your accusation of my being a sock, I encourage you to file a CU against my being a sock of any account you make up out of the blues. Until then, please talk in civil manner to all users. Regards. Universe=atom 17:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, F&f, why did you revert my wise edit of putting some pictures to the left (in order to balance the sides in terms of pictures) and of making some minor grammar mistakes. In addition, you even included in your edit summary the following message: rv all undiscussed changes by Universe-atom. If you persist in this fashion, it will be seen as vandalism. Do I have to discuss every single minor edit in the talk page? Do you ever do that? Did you know that I can spit the same stamement into your face? Can't you ever just shut up and stop accusing others of vandalism (when perhaps your own revert may be considered vandalism by others) and STOP CONSIDERING YOURSELF AS THE KING OF WIKIPEDIA!!! I am sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I mean to be courteous. Warm regards. Universe=atom 17:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW, yes, I shall keep on editing any articles that I wish, no matter what. If people consistently stand in my way (by not being courteous and by reverting all my edits because of prejudices), I shall report them in. Universe=atom 17:46, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Recently, I have moved the images in the "Politics," "Geography," and "Economy" sections to the left, in order to give a better balance between the two sides in terms of images. This edit, though, has been reverted by F&f, saying that it was "undiscussed". (BTW, I do not have to discuss every single edit, that I make, in the talk page.) So, does anybody else support this decision? If sufficient support is provided, I shall again put the images to the left. Regards. Universe=atom 18:47, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
Images aligned to the left at the beginning of a section makes it harder to read the text. =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Do we need all the navigational templates in this section. IMO only Template:Indian ties should be retained and all others are unnecessary clutter that should be removed, for the following reasons:
I'll wait for other editors to chime in before making any changes in the section. Abecedare 07:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
I changed the {{articlehistory}} size to normal from small on the *this* talk page. As I felt that it was important to 'highlight' the fact that India is a featured article and that it is a previous 'Today's featured article' too.
But if you feel that the previous version was better please revert it, without any hesitation. -- ~KnowledgeHegemony~ 16:39, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
What the hell: [8]?
India has always led in the educstion because THEY ARE SMART.
We lead in "educstion" because we are smart!!!!! -- Deepak D'Souza ( talk • contribs) 04:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I sincerely feel the need to add info on India's space research developments and satellites launched by it. But where should I? -- Knowledge Hegemony 17:50, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Well, most other countries have a section for technology or something similar, but no no no, not here because this page is a featured article and god forbid anyone add another section that this featured article...because of course that would be a disaster!!! Since this is a featured articles, all the images must remain boring, all the sections must remain brief and any attempt to change this will be shunned. That is what Ive learned about this page. The bureaucracy here is worse than in India. Nothing gets done. Only arguements. Good luck. Nikkul 00:27, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 08:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, but it can be discouraging when no one responds.... -- Knowledge Hegemony 14:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
I am not asking for a new section. But just inclusion of some facts. Knowledge Hegemony 15:57, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Knowledge Hegemony 09:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why it is necessary to say that "India is one of the few countries..." USA, France, Japan, Europe and China are some of the others: It's unnecessarily adding an imbalance on the page by highlighting the positive aspects and toning down the less positive aspects. =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
The Apanti image is too specific to be an appropriate and representative image for the demographic section. Since only one in a couple thousand indians follows Apanti customs, it is not fair to use that image to represent all of India. An image should represent the text. The apanti image may be fit for the tribes of india page, but since tribes are only 8 percent of the total population, it is not fair to the other 92 percent to have the tribal image used to represent that 92 percent. Let's try to find a solution.
OK, I'll try this again. In the past, maps were rejected because there were already a good number of them, and a simple population graph was rejected because it was, well, simple. So, I will suggest this graph instead, which has more substance to it and isn't unappealing. Hopefully this option can resolve the subjectivity problem in that section and bring this article in line with similar sections in other articles. As has been the principle, it is most relevant to use a visual displaying demographic information in the Demographics section. Anyway, here is the picture taken from the article Demographics of India:
The Behnam 23:58, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
The Behnam, I do agree with you in that a chart of some sort would be the only possible option, however, if we all start putting in our own replacement images, nothing is going to happen. Thats why i urge you to hold off on the replacement and vote just on whether you feel the Apatani image is relevant. We can talk about the replacement later on. If we do it now, nothing will ever happen as shown in the past. Nikkul 14:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Okay, let us solve this problem once and for all (please sign the appropriate column).
I hope this will solve the problem once and for all. If sufficient "Retaining" support is reached, the image will be kept. If sufficient "Removal" support is reached, we can discuss on what new image to put before removing the Apatani image altogether. BTW, after this discussion is over, perhaps a copy of it can by put in the talk page's FAQ. Thank you. Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 18:23, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Just vote. No comments here, Just retain or reject
People in favor of RETAINING the Apatani image:
People in favor of REMOVING the Apatani image:
Unfortunately, user dab fails to realize that this is an encyclopedia not a myspace. We show the truth not someone's opinion of what boring is and what peculiar is. Also, an image does not have to represent the "boring" average at all. Don't most Indians celebrate Diwali? We can have a diwali picture (which is not boring at all, but is very common in India). Chart wise I like the religion chart since most people dont know the breakup of India in terms of religion. Please click this link: Nikkul 00:04, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Indische_religionen.jpg
Even the graph posted above by user:Nikkul is quite good. -- Knowledge Hegemony 07:58, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
The reason the images on the German India site are good is because I have placed many of them there, and unlike here, they have been accepted. Keep in mind that the german India site is also a featured article. Nikkul 15:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Universeatom, Judging from past discussions, I think its better to vote on replacements now because many people will want to keep the image till a better graphy is found, and that vote will be cast as a keep even though it does not necessarily mean that. The link to the past discussion is up there somewhere. Nikkul 15:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
See the funny thing is: we're already getting divided by the replacement images, so nothing is going to get accomplished since there wont be a clear majority. But if we talk about just removing the Apatani image, some will vote keep till a replacement is found. And even though that means remove after replacement is found, it will be counted as a keep and those four or five votes (keep till replacement is found) will determine the vote as show before. So the only way to actually get something done is to vote on keeping or removing the Apatani image while not counting any vote that is keep till replacement is found (because that can also equal remove after replacement is found). Any comments???
Actually if we find a replacement image, and all agree to it, then we might be good because the last vote, most people voted remove or remove after replacement is found (which equals keep till replacement is found) so if we all decide on an replacement image, we should be good. I dont know sooo confusing. Nikkul 00:08, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Universe=atom, the reason no regular editor is voting or participating in this rehash-of-a-debate is because this issue has already been discussed to death and the consensus established that the Apatani image should be retained unless a clearly superior image has been found/created. See the link that F&F provided above and note the discussion about what type of replacement image would be preferable. Also read WP:Consensus#Asking the other parent, from which I quote:
A good sign that you have not demonstrated a change in consensus, so much as a change in the people showing up, is if few or none of the people involved in the previous discussion show up for the new one.
Seriously do you believe that repeatedly discussing the Apatani image is the most productive use of our precious time on wikipedia ? In contrast, please see the amazing effort User:Fowler&fowler is investing nowadays in improving the Indian mathematics article. Hope we all can emulate that! Regards. Abecedare 16:09, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
If the Apatani people get their image put on Wiki, what about Kashmiri people? Marathi people? UP people? Tamil Nadu people? They deserve to have their image on the site as well. Why are the Apatanis favored? it really is ridiculious. Note that Kashmiri, Marathi, UP, Tamil Nadu people are multi-million strong. Nikkul 01:49, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
A Note to fellow voters:
Though Wikipedia's primary method of determining consensus is discussion, not voting. Editors occasionally use straw polls in an attempt to test for consensus, polls or surveys may actually impede rather than assist discussion. They should be used with caution, if at all, and may not be treated as binding.
Sign with "# ~~~~" on the end of the list of the article you want to vote. Opposing votes are not counted; see approval voting. Only a single vote is valid.
Replace
Support:-
Keep without any changes(ie.leave the article as it currently is)
Support:-
Keep but add another along with it
Support:-
This is stupid! =Nichalp «Talk»= 14:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Still, I feel we should be more open to improvements to this already very good article. As far as the text is concerned its excellent. But if you compare the pictures to that of Australia, Germany, Japan and Pakistan this article lacks images. Not a single picture of any landscape in a natural resource rich country as India.
This debate will never end will it? The reason why the Aptani image was chosen was because 1. It comes from NE India giving the page a regional balance and 2. it is a featured picture. So by all means change it, BUT get a suitable replacement for NE India without disturbing the regional balance or section relavence and 2. Get the image featured! =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:48, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Hello, I am a frequent reader of Wikipedia. I dont edit, but my schoolwork requires me to use the site a lot. I have just realized that the talk pages of each article are more interesting than the article itself. Anyway, when I read an article, I do not see any difference between a featured image or a normal image (that shows a lot). So i just wanted to comment on that since you people are discussing this and since editors probably dont see it through a readers perspective. Anyway I respect what you do. Thanks 68.36.160.96 19:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
While the article claims to have a spoken version, all I can hear is the Indian national anthem playing. Did somebody replace the original recording?-- Seraphiel 10:39, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
So can someone with Java installed try out the link above?-- Seraphiel 10:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
From the vote taken a few weeks ago [10], here are the results:
Those Who Favor Replacement [11]: The Behnam, Sarvagnya, Abecedare, Nikkul, Effer, Sumanth, Haphar, Blacksun, Indianstar, Naresh, Ambuj Saxena
Those Who Favor Retainment [7]: Fowler&fowler, Ragib, Ekantik, Gizza, Saravask, Nichalp, Madhu
It's certainly not as black and white as you put it. Please read the comments carefully before assuming that people voted in entiretly for removing/keeping. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:39, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
I took a closer look at the previous vote and here is what I found.
The results of the previous vote were as follows -
Remove: Users The Behnam, Sarvagyna, Ekantik, Nikkul, Effer, Sumanth, Indianstar, Naresh, Incman, and Khazadum. + Chanakyathegreat. universe=atom, Total votes: 12.
Conditional keep(ie., "remove if replaced by a graph") - Users Ragib, Abecedare, Ambuj.Saxena, Blacksun, dab. Total: 5
Keep: Haphar, Gizza, Nichalp, Saravask, Madhu, Fowler&fowler, Chanakyathegreat, Maquahuitl, BovineBeast, and user:129.125.7.218. Total votes: 9
Now since we have a very good replacement in Image:India_population_density_map_en.svg, it is fair to count the "conditional keep"s as remove.
That would bring the tally to,
Unless there are any objections in the next few days, I will replace the existing Apatani pic with the pic above. Sarvagnya 08:54, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Adding a map of India will solve all problems since it includes all of India. This debate going on for such a long time. Beats all records of negotiations. A.K Anthony can be proud that his department is much better. Chanakyathegreat 09:20, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! MUBARAK HO! THE PROBABLY-LONGEST-NEGOTIATIONS IN THE WORLD HAS BEEN PEACEFULLY RESOLVED AFTER LONG MONTHS OF DISCUSSIONS! CONGRATULATIONS TO EVERYONE HERE! Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 20:30, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank god. Nikkul 01:53, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I am surprised to see Delhi as 'Union Teritory' under the section 'Administrative divisions'
Delhi has been a State since many years and I am surprised not to see it in States list.
It says article got updated on 26 may 2007. Even then delhi is not a state according to this article.
I hope it gets corrected soon.
Thanks,
Nitin
nitinoct@yahoo.com
-- Nitinoct 06:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 15:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
It's an error on their part.
=Nichalp «Talk»= 17:16, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 06:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
-- Knowledge Hegemony 14:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone thought of getting pictures from NE India featured? I'm sure our resident scout Nikkul can get some good ones. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:46, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm guessing that he'd like to counter bias...-- Seraphiel 10:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
I think we should first think about getting pictures from NE. Then we can get them featured (which is not a requirement). I think we should replace the Ajanta caves pic with one from the NE to create regional balance since BSE already represents central india. Nikkul 11:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Since Ajanta Caves and BSE both represent Western India, and since there is no pic from NE India, we should replace the Ajanta Caves image with a historic pic from the NE. Once we do have a pic, Nichalp, we should try to get it featured. Nikkul 11:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
I know that all these images relate to the Himalayas, but that is what Northeast India is famous for. Also, please add more images relating to NE India if you find more good ones. Thank you. Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 15:02, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Moved to Wikipedia talk:Notice board for India-related topics#Indian Copyright Law =Nichalp «Talk»= 11:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Problems with the Toda Hut Image:
The reason why the Toda image is there is because no other picture represents South India. Unfortunately, the Toda image does not represent the culture of South India. We should change the Toda hut image and replace it with an image that represents more of South Indian culture.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Nikkul ( talk • contribs). at 11:51, 30 May 2007.
I wouldn't push my luck if I were you Nikkul for fear that I might awaken some sleeping giants. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
BTW- a little off this topic, I replaced the BSE pic with another(which is without wires hanging and the satellite). The new pic is taken from a different angle hiding the ugly satellite. worth mentioning both pics were taken by Nichalp Knowledge Hegemony 16:45, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
Images should be pertinent and featured and I have no adversity towards rural images as long as they represent most of the rural areas. What I do not like is having images of very very very small groups representing a culture of a huge country. Say, hypothetically, there are a 100 people in India who dance around a fire and live in holes in the ground. They eat leaves for lunch and never wear clothes. Could we put an image of them dancing around a fire semi-naked as an image representing the culture of India? If we follow Nichalp's logic, They might be part of Indian culture (since they are Indian) and yes, they do deserve to be on Wiki India... but then dont Keralites, Maharastrians, Todas, Apatanis, Tamil Nadu people, Assamese, Kashmiri's, also deserve to be on the page? Who's going to decide which group deserves to be on the page? Nikkul 17:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Nichalp, an image must not have to be featured in order to be on this page. Yes, it would be a plus, but it should not be a requirement. Also, a Toda hut is not apposite in the culture section since there is no mention of housing in that section. Nikkul 23:06, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
Considering that Indian history and culture is steeped in dynasties, empires, princely states and royalties, I feel this pic of the Mysore palace wouldnt be out of place in this article. The pic believe me, also makes a great wallpaper.
Few words to put the pic in context - It is easily one of the finest(if not the finest) palaces anywhere in India and also belongs to the Wodeyars who ruled from this palace until independence and the last king Sri Jayachamarajendra Wodeyar(who I believe continued as the Governer of the modern Indian state of Mysore/Karnataka) even retained the palace until 1974. That makes this palace and the Wodeyar dynasty probably one of the last(may even be the last) of the princely states to fold. The architect of this palace was Sir Henry Irwin who also is the hand behind several such structures of exceeding grandeur across India. This palace patronised arts and artists from across South India and several legendary artists from across South India found patronage at this palace. The biggest names in Indian(not just South Indian) music and dance continue to perform at this palace every year during the Mysore Dasara celebrations. The architecture of this palace is a supreme example of the Indo-Saracenic style which in some ways is a fusion of Indian, colonial/European and Islamic styles. If somebody doesnt like this particular pic, I am sure other pics of the palace arent difficult to find Sarvagnya 05:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand. Why the Mysore Palace? If you're looking for Indo-Islamic and Victorian-Gothic fusion styles, the Victoria Terminus is clearly the pre-eminent example, and the only one on the UNESCO World Heritage List (WHL), see here. (And even for strict Indo-Saracenic, I can think of many others.) I agree with Nichalp that quality is better. Since the process of making it to the WHL is painstakingly rigorous, why not have the UNESCO World Heritage list as a benchmark for "high culture" content and Wikipedia Featured Picture for picture quality? I agree too with Abededare (who has already spoken eloquently to it on these pages) that the Taj and Toda make a balanced pair high art and folk art. I agree with Sarvagyna that the Taj frontal view is cliched and I remember he himself suggesting some pictures of the Taj from different angles. Why don't we submit those pictures for FP consideration? Fowler&fowler «Talk» 13:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
If that is true (that the Toda image has been around for a long time), then why don't we replace it with the Sari image (which is also a featured image) and suits the contents of the culture section?
The brocade is a Indo-Islamic art form and the sari is mentioned in apparel. We can then nominate other appropriate images for FP consideration (including the Mysore Palace). As I had mentioned in Archive 24, there are two pictures on flicker.com that I like. Both pictures were taken by a gentleman called Captain Suresh, who seems to be a good photographer. The first one has a group of boys playing cricket on the sandy river bank with the Taj Mahal as a backdrop (see here). (It has the advantage that it combines sport and architecture, both of relevance to the culture section.) The other, my personal favorite, has some women and girls resting and seeking shelter from the mid-day sun, again with the Taj gleaming the background (see here). The second picture too combines architecture with apparel (sari and salwar kameez), both themes of the culture section.) What do people think of these pictures? If there is enthusiasm, we could go to the next step. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:28, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
The Lotus Temple and Mahabodhi Temple. How are the pics?--- Knowledge Hegemony 15:45, 3 June 2007 (UTC)-
There is no requirement that all images on a featured article must be featured as well
Nichalp, I don't see why you view featured image status as a requirement. It's not a requirement. I dont think having two pictures of buildings shows Indian culture. Perhaps a picture of Diwali or a dance of some sort. Taj Mahal should stay Nikkul 17:44, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I see that people still cling to this completely misguided bias in favor of 'featured pictures' despite the fact that WP:Images#Image choice and placement favors relevance (as I have pointed out previously). With this in mind I think that we should decide what sort of picture is most relevant to the culture of India. While I'm not Indian, I am not under the impression that the Toda Hut is a major part of Indian culture, and according to what someone said above, it isn't even common where it once was. So I'm inclined to oppose its use. Yet I think that it is impossible to sum of India's culture with two pictures unless there is something that can really be agreed upon as representative. The brocade is a good example and I think it may be good to use in the section. But I have another question: why does this section need two pictures? Taj Mahal couldn't rightly be excluded from the India article (despite being cliche), but do we really need a second picture here? The Behnam 19:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
The Mysore palace is not only a fine example of Hindu, Muslim and Gothic styles but it is also a center of fine arts. Artists ranging from Parveen Sultana to Bhimsen Joshi to MS Subbalakshmi, from Birju Maharaj to Padma Subramanyam, from Pt Vishwa Mohan Bhat to Mandolin Srinivas to Zakir Hussain all perform at this venue regularly. Artists from across India would kill to get a chance to perform at this place. Fowler's ignorance clearly shows when he compares this to the Victoria Terminus. VT may very well be an architectural wonder, but I cant see how a railway station can be a cultural icon on the same plane as the Mysore palace. I also cant think of many places in India that can boast of the history and grandeur and that can also boast of playing host to such diverse arts and artists as the Mysore palace. This palace keeps a tradition of the Vijayanagara empire alive to this day by organising the 'world famous' Mysore Dasara and the Jumbo Savari for which millions of tourists throng to Mysore every year. Mysore Dasara incidentally is the state festival of Karnataka apart from the fact that Dasara is also big in Bengal(East) and Gujarat(west). Millions of tourists also come to just see the palace. I neither can think of any Parveen Sultana or Bade Ghulam Ali Khan singing on the VT platforms nor can I think of millions of tourists thronging to VT just to "see" it. The credentials of the Mysore palace as a cultural icon is second to none. Sarvagnya 19:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I have added the classic picture of the Taj by Samuel Bourne for Featured picture consideration at WP:FPC Please vote your support or oppostion. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 01:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
An image of the Taj under the history section does not necessarily have to be taken a long time ago. Nikkul 01:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
The comparision between 1865 and now doesn't make much sense given the overwhelming temporal non-uniformness of precipitation in the Indian subcontinent -- On an average 90-odd days of flood and practically no rain for the remaining 275 days in the year. It all depends upon the time of the year were these two photos taken. deeptrivia ( talk) 01:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
This particular image is titled Toda Temple. It looks exactly like the Toda hut image we have! Knowledge Hegemony 14:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
While we are fighting over relatively less important topics here in this talk page, several India-related articles are in need of attention. Two India-related Featured articles are Featured article removal candidate now — Rail transport in India and Geography of India. the FARCs are here and here. Please help improve the articles so that the FA status can be retained.
This talk page is probably not the correct place to inform about the FARCs. However, this being one of the most-watched India-related talk pages, I'm advertising here. Regards.-- Dwaipayan ( talk) 18:58, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Unless you are nominating a famous picture, or are absolutely sure about the quality of a photograph, it is a good idea to get your picture reviewed first at WP:PPR before nominating it to WP:FPC. That way, you get some feedback from the Wikipedia photo editors, and don't create a backlog at FPC. If your photograph is worthy, they will themselves promote it to the FPC process. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
We should replace the Toda Hut Image With One of the Pictures Below Because:
Please add images that could replace the Toda Hut image only
Please disuss the replacement of the Toda hut image only. Thanks
Agree with Dab. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 11:25, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
The article History of India is a candidate for Wikipedia:Article Creation and Improvement Drive (shortened to WP:ACID). However, just a day or two ago, it became overdue. However, we can still save it by voting for it ASAP. Please excuse my posting of this non-India-article-related comment. However, I knew that this talk page was the one most watched by a group of Indians who might want to get India-related articles featured. If you don't want the article to be cut from the list due to being overdue, please go to the page ( WP:ACID) and vote ASAP. Thank you very much. Universe=atom• Talk• Contributions• 14:30, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
We are representing TODA with few thousands huts as India culture. Taj is excellent...why Mysore Palace? Mughal contribution is not the only contribution. Life of the masses in India revolves around temples. There are many South Indian and North Indian temples, we now need picture of temple to represent ancient and modern culture of millions of masses. Secularism on this article is welcomed, But pseudo-secularism is bad! This article should remain secular but definately not pseudo-secular. Holy Ganga talk 22:33, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
the history section of india can use some improving 59.183.178.56 06:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The Taj Mahal isn't one of the seven "wonder of the world" as is claimed in the caption of the pic. It didn't even exist when this list was made. It is however one of the "touristic wonders".
Let's all vote for the Taj on the Seven New Wonders of The World
here
Nikkul
01:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I provided a reference in the infobox for the statement that the Rupee is the national currency of India. However, it was deleted by Abecedare, saying that it was not necessary because it could not be disputed. Perhaps, though, a reference should be provided for it because the fact is not mentioned anywhere else in the article. Also, there is no "Main Article" for it (except the link provided by it, but I guess links do not count). Also, it should not matter whether a statement is disputed or not; how would someone coming from a tribe in Africa know that the Rupee is the currency; perhaps he might dispute it. I have posted this in the talk page because I did not want to engage in an edit war. Universe=atom Talk• Contributions 19:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
U=a, I think you might not be allowed to have an "=" sign in the signature, since it interferes with the output of the Wikicode: {{user|Universe=atom}} and produces: User-multi error: no username detected ( help)., instead of the usual output. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 02:50, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what the hell the Indians are doing on this talk page. We have discussions about difference in Toda Hut and Toda Temple, but it seems no one has bothered to see the wrong map put under the name of Location of India, it shows J & K belonging to Pakistan. Remove this map and have an original map or no map at all. All Indians support this Cause.
67.173.165.210 03:06, 18 June 2007 (UTC)Hemendra Bhatia 67.173.165.210 ( talk · contribs · count)
Now, I'm not really sure what the anon was talking about. The locator map looks the same as the Indian-controlled territory as shown in Image:India-states-numbered.svg (which BTW is quite self-explanatory in showing the status quo). As for anything else, see Talk:India/FAQ. -- Ragib 01:51, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Please help improve article Tourism in India. We can make that article a featured article in wikipedia. cheers. Lara bran 07:00, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I am thinking about adding the following links to the "Government" subsection of the "External Links" section. Please give your feedback.
Please add more to this proposed list if you can find more. Thank you. Universe=atom Talk• Contributions 16:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Doesnt the Indus Valley Civilization denote an ancient area that now currently resides in Pakistan along the Indus river from which it derives its name from. Apart from a few scant areas located over the border near the Pakistani province of Sindh, the bulk of the Indus Valley is inherently tied to the country of Pakistan. Why has has it been written that India is the home of the Indus Valley Civilization? Can someone please remove this erroneous entry. kind regards 130.63.161.200
Can anybody come up with a solution to decrease the number of brackets.-- Knowledge Hegemony 06:11, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
It says India's economy is 4042 trillion in the fact box. -- Blacksun 09:33, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
As per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries#Holidays, this article should have a table that lists the holidays of India. Also, as it says on Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries/Article_Classification#Featured_articles, this is one the country FA's in Wikipedia that does not have a holidays' table. Is there one on Wikipedia to put in this article? If not, the format in the first link should be used to make one. Also, where should it be put? Universe=atom Talk• Contributions 15:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)