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The specific ritual involved in observance of this day is a matter of controversy. Some Religious Zionists have declared that Yom Ha-Atzmaut is one of the Jewish Holidays in which Hallel should be said. This view has, however, been rejected by the majority of Orthodox Jewish halachic decisors including members of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.
The above is not totally accurate. After all, the Chief Rabbinate are the ones who said that one should say Hallel and I don't think the majority of Orthodox poskim said not to say Hallel. Most think Hallel should be said, some say without a blessing but I don't think you can say that a majority reject the practice of Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut.
This holiday is listed as on 23 April I understand that there's always some confusion what with jewish holidays starting at sun down and lasting until the next sun down. Which date is correct? I don't know, nor could I reliably check. - Kode 14:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It starts on the eve of April 23, but most calendars will list it as April 24, as most other Jewish holidays, although it starts the prior evening. Amechad 20:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
The paragraph is NOT confusing, but clarifying. I wish someone in my city had checked the 2004 law, as everyone here (6th largest US city) is celebrating israeli independence day on Monday 2007. It's possible that the calendar you have is incorrect.
An external link http://www.hebcal.com/news/2007/01/yom_haatzmaut_yom_hazikaron_2007.html quotes the wikipedia article, saying that the article explains the new dating.
The article states: "These four new days [including Yom HaShoah] are not accepted as religious holidays by Hasidim and Haredim. These groups view these new days as Israeli national holidays." I don't think anyone views Yom HaShoah as anything Israeli considering it commemorates the Holocaust and has little to do with modern Israel.
Yom HaSHoah is Israeli because its date and celebrations were invented by Israel. Shia1 09:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
This description from the article: "Yom HaShoah V'Hagevurah - Holocaust Remembrance day, on 27th of Nissan, commemorates the date of the uprising in Warsaw Ghetto in 1943", despite the initial translation, makes it sound like the purpose of the day is to commemorate the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which is obviously only one facet of the commemoration of the Holocaust itself. 38.112.113.242 15:36, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Keeves, I agree with your last edit - that information did not belong. What do you think about moving the page to Yom Ha'atzmaut, without the second apostrophe. It's more accurate, since there is an /א/ there, not an /ע/, and more importantly, it's the most popular spelling on Google. Pending comment, I am prepared to move the page. -- DLand TALK 16:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I am curious as to where the information comes for this. It seems possible that people would fast and wear sackcloth for the holiday that immediately precedes Yom Haatzmaut, Yom HaZikaron, the Rememberance Day that is a day of national mourning for those who died in Israel's wars, terrorist attacks, etc. Why would we harp on death on the next day too when we've already observed the mourning? Also, I haven't seen anyone mourning it but I have seen some angry Hassidim. Valley2city 18:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
No, it's true. On Yom HaAtzmaut, Neturei Karta'niks will wear ashes and sackcolth and fly either black or Palestinian flags or both. Satmer, Bobov, Munkatch, Chasam Soferniks, and pretty much the run of Hasidic and Hungarian anti-zionist Jewry holds it a fast day. SOme will fly black flags from their houses. Given the size of Satmar and Bobov, it basically means nearly 1/4 of all Sabbath keaping Jews hold YOm HaAtzmaut a day of mourning. These groups do not recognize Yom Zikaron, and will make a point of going about their bussiness when the siren blows, as do many Litvishik anti-ZIonists. Shia1 09:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
As this is the English language Wikipedia the article should use the English name, "Israeli Independence Day" or something similar. I propose moving. PatGallacher 21:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
This is an Israeli holiday, not a Jewish one. It seems to be miscategorized, but I'm hesitant to remove the category in case there's a good reason. Oren0 01:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
You are 100% correct, but given the desire to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, if you changed it, it would be reverted back with arguements that they are one and the same. YOu would then get into an arguement about what counts as "Jewish," something Jews do, or something that's part of Judaism. You would then get in an arguement about what is Judaism. You could also point out that it is actually forbidden to "Celebrate" anything during this time period on the Jewish calendar, as it is during the Omer. But you would be shouted down by 90 people. Shia1 14:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
It isn't fair to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, and Wikipedia is not the right place for arguements unless they relate to Wikipedia per se; please adhere to writing factual, neutral and verifiable (preferbly backed up with citation) information. -- AvihooI 03:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, but nevertheless, it is used that way, and it is going to be impossible to stop people from using it that way since 90% of the people interested in Jewish topics are Jews, and 90% of Jews are Zionist, and 90% of Zionists think it is appropriate to engage in Hasbara. (see article on Hasbara). For an interesting example, notice how the snipppet detailing anti-Zionist Jews way of marking the 5th of Iyar, which used to be the only piece of this article siting a source, has been sabotaged to lead to a Hasbarah website instead of to the title of the article it came from. 88.152.134.66 15:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Where do you get the statistics from?; I am Israeli, Jewish and Zionist, I do not find it necessary to have pro-Israeli material on an encyclopedia and especially one like Wikipedia. I think a biased information may even prove to be counter-productive: I insist that the articles be corrected for facts in order to fit the actual reality and if it's not going to, I'll have to involve higher authorities in Wikipedia. -- AvihooI 07:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Such a broad generalization with no citation does not belong in the article. There are not only Muslim Arabs in Israel, but also Bedouin, Druze, and Christian Arabs. While Muslims may not celebrate Yom Ha'atzmaut, other Israeli Arabs most certainly do. The article on Arab citizens of Israel is a good reference in this issue.
It is my understanding that Christian Palestinians do not like Israel just as much as Muslim Palestinians do not like Israel, though their idea of proper resitence may be different. (The same could, by the way, be said for Jewish Palestinians.) THe article on Arab citizens of Israel mentions that though nearly 10% of Palestinians are Christian, only a dozen or so serve in the army. The rest do not want to betray the Arab world or Palestine. Do you have a source for Christian Palestinians celebrating the day in any greater numbers than Muslims? Or for bedoines? I'll leave this up for a few days for a response, then I'm deleting that bit of hasbarah as unsourced. 82.81.104.93 18:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Jewish palestinians?
you mean thoose 100+ Hyper-orthodox (for a lack of higher term then ultra) jews who live in east jerusalem , britain and the US who deny the holocaust? They view "palestinians"(arabs , etc) like the taliban views women.
I have moved this article to Independence Day (Israel) based on WP:COMMONNAME used in the English language media in Israel. For illustration, combining Haaretz, Jerusalem Post and Ynet, the totals are:
Number 5 7 13:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I added to the bullet point for the Conservative practice this text: "Some places also read the haftarah normally read on the last day of Pesach." Is this tradition observed in other branches also?
And I just realized I have access to the selection; I'll revise my text to state the actual verses. A More Perfect Onion ( talk) 13:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Keeves, I agree with your last edit - that information did not belong. What do you think about moving the page to Yom Ha'atzmaut, without the second apostrophe. It's more accurate, since there is an /א/ there, not an /ע/, and more importantly, it's the most popular spelling on Google. Pending comment, I am prepared to move the page. -- DLand TALK 16:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
As this is the English language Wikipedia the article should use the English name, "Israeli Independence Day" or something similar. I propose moving. PatGallacher 21:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I am curious as to where the information comes for this. It seems possible that people would fast and wear sackcloth for the holiday that immediately precedes Yom Haatzmaut, Yom HaZikaron, the Rememberance Day that is a day of national mourning for those who died in Israel's wars, terrorist attacks, etc. Why would we harp on death on the next day too when we've already observed the mourning? Also, I haven't seen anyone mourning it but I have seen some angry Hassidim. Valley2city 18:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
No, it's true. On Yom HaAtzmaut, Neturei Karta'niks will wear ashes and sackcolth and fly either black or Palestinian flags or both. Satmer, Bobov, Munkatch, Chasam Soferniks, and pretty much the run of Hasidic and Hungarian anti-zionist Jewry holds it a fast day. SOme will fly black flags from their houses. Given the size of Satmar and Bobov, it basically means nearly 1/4 of all Sabbath keaping Jews hold YOm HaAtzmaut a day of mourning. These groups do not recognize Yom Zikaron, and will make a point of going about their bussiness when the siren blows, as do many Litvishik anti-ZIonists. Shia1 09:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Such a broad generalization with no citation does not belong in the article. There are not only Muslim Arabs in Israel, but also Bedouin, Druze, and Christian Arabs. While Muslims may not celebrate Yom Ha'atzmaut, other Israeli Arabs most certainly do. The article on Arab citizens of Israel is a good reference in this issue.
It is my understanding that Christian Palestinians do not like Israel just as much as Muslim Palestinians do not like Israel, though their idea of proper resitence may be different. (The same could, by the way, be said for Jewish Palestinians.) THe article on Arab citizens of Israel mentions that though nearly 10% of Palestinians are Christian, only a dozen or so serve in the army. The rest do not want to betray the Arab world or Palestine. Do you have a source for Christian Palestinians celebrating the day in any greater numbers than Muslims? Or for bedoines? I'll leave this up for a few days for a response, then I'm deleting that bit of hasbarah as unsourced. 82.81.104.93 18:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Jewish palestinians?
you mean thoose 100+ Hyper-orthodox (for a lack of higher term then ultra) jews who live in east jerusalem , britain and the US who deny the holocaust? They view "palestinians"(arabs , etc) like the taliban views women.
I have moved this article to Independence Day (Israel) based on WP:COMMONNAME used in the English language media in Israel. For illustration, combining Haaretz, Jerusalem Post and Ynet, the totals are:
Number 5 7 13:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was do not move.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk) 12:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Yom Ha'atzmaut →
Israel Independence Day — As this is the English wiki, the name should be in English. Thoughts anyone?
Philly jawn (
talk) 20:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I added to the bullet point for the Conservative practice this text: "Some places also read the haftarah normally read on the last day of Pesach." Is this tradition observed in other branches also?
And I just realized I have access to the selection; I'll revise my text to state the actual verses. A More Perfect Onion ( talk) 13:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC) I have changed "places" to "Conservative Synagogues" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricardianman ( talk • contribs) 18:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
The specific ritual involved in observance of this day is a matter of controversy. Some Religious Zionists have declared that Yom Ha-Atzmaut is one of the Jewish Holidays in which Hallel should be said. This view has, however, been rejected by the majority of Orthodox Jewish halachic decisors including members of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.
The above is not totally accurate. After all, the Chief Rabbinate are the ones who said that one should say Hallel and I don't think the majority of Orthodox poskim said not to say Hallel. Most think Hallel should be said, some say without a blessing but I don't think you can say that a majority reject the practice of Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut.
The article states: "These four new days [including Yom HaShoah] are not accepted as religious holidays by Hasidim and Haredim. These groups view these new days as Israeli national holidays." I don't think anyone views Yom HaShoah as anything Israeli considering it commemorates the Holocaust and has little to do with modern Israel.
Yom HaSHoah is Israeli because its date and celebrations were invented by Israel. Shia1 09:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Not to dispute anything here, but to illuminate: Israel (the country) celebrates a number of official national holidays. Most of them are also recognized by religious Jews as Jewish religious holy days (Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, just as Christmas is celebrated in Western countries). However, there are some "modern" state holidays that don't get accepted by religious Jews as holidays because they are not religious holidays. It raises the interesting question that if the Hebrew Bible is a history of the Jews, then when are they going to add the part up till the Holocaust? I think I heard that there are some Christian denominations in the US that don't accept Thanksgiving as a holiday. 71.190.66.244 ( talk) 00:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
This description from the article: "Yom HaShoah V'Hagevurah - Holocaust Remembrance day, on 27th of Nissan, commemorates the date of the uprising in Warsaw Ghetto in 1943", despite the initial translation, makes it sound like the purpose of the day is to commemorate the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which is obviously only one facet of the commemoration of the Holocaust itself. 38.112.113.242 15:36, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems as though this insertion is an attempt to delegitimize the holiday (as is the principle of nakba). It should not be included in the Related articles, for the same reason that Anti-Americanism should not be a related page of Independence Day (United States) - it is subversive and detracts from the neutral nature of the article. Arielkoiman ( talk) 19:54, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
This is an Israeli holiday, not a Jewish one. It seems to be miscategorized, but I'm hesitant to remove the category in case there's a good reason. Oren0 01:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
You are 100% correct, but given the desire to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, if you changed it, it would be reverted back with arguements that they are one and the same. YOu would then get into an arguement about what counts as "Jewish," something Jews do, or something that's part of Judaism. You would then get in an arguement about what is Judaism. You could also point out that it is actually forbidden to "Celebrate" anything during this time period on the Jewish calendar, as it is during the Omer. But you would be shouted down by 90 people. Shia1 14:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
It is allowed to celebrate Lag B'omer in the omer, because, its a chag. To those who consider Yom Haatzmaut a Chag, it is likewise permissible to celebrate it - and, BTW, to get your hair cut, to have a wedding, etc. Thats the point. Ricardianman ( talk) 21:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
It isn't fair to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, and Wikipedia is not the right place for arguements unless they relate to Wikipedia per se; please adhere to writing factual, neutral and verifiable (preferbly backed up with citation) information. -- AvihooI 03:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, but nevertheless, it is used that way, and it is going to be impossible to stop people from using it that way since 90% of the people interested in Jewish topics are Jews, and 90% of Jews are Zionist, and 90% of Zionists think it is appropriate to engage in Hasbara. (see article on Hasbara). For an interesting example, notice how the snipppet detailing anti-Zionist Jews way of marking the 5th of Iyar, which used to be the only piece of this article siting a source, has been sabotaged to lead to a Hasbarah website instead of to the title of the article it came from. 88.152.134.66 15:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Where do you get the statistics from?; I am Israeli, Jewish and Zionist, I do not find it necessary to have pro-Israeli material on an encyclopedia and especially one like Wikipedia. I think a biased information may even prove to be counter-productive: I insist that the articles be corrected for facts in order to fit the actual reality and if it's not going to, I'll have to involve higher authorities in Wikipedia. -- AvihooI 07:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
In fact as is discussed in the article, Yom Ha'atzmaut IS treated as a religious holiday by many diaspora Jews - possibly the majority of Orthodox Jews in the diaspora, certainly the majority of Conservative Jews, and at least many Reform Jews. Therefor it is properly listed as Jewish religious holiday.
Ricardianman (
talk) 17:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
as you say, Jewish holiday are discussed in texts of Jewish religious law. there are many discussions of the halachic status of the Yom hatzmaut
https://www.google.com/#q=halacha+yom+haatzmaut Those discussions ARE texts of Jewish religious law - which did not stop with Talmud. If it did, then Simchat Torah would not be a Jewish Holiday. Passover and Hanukkah, BTW, have secular meanings in Israel (and even for a few diaspora Jews) (and those secular meanings may be closer to the original meanings than the religious meaningns are.) That Yom HaAtzmaut is primarily a secular Israeli holiday, does not mean it is not also a Jewish Holiday, in the meaning that has in Jewish law. As for whether sweet red wine is a "Jewish Bevegerage" I do not beleive there is, either in Jewish law, or in common English usage, such a thing as a Jewish beverage, in the same sense that there is a Jewish holiday. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ricardianman (
talk •
contribs) 21:26, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
The point of a wiki article talk page is to discuss the article not side topics. The majority of modern Orthodox jews, and virtually all Conservative and Reform Jews, consider Yom Haatzmaut a religious holiday. You may not agree with their halachic approach, and may not count their rabbis in determining majorities, but its not useful for wikipedia as an encylopedia to enshrine the haredi view of halacha and Judaism, when that is not shared by a majority of Jews. Your view of the halachic ilicitness of the establishment of Israel is reject by almost all non-haredi authorities, and your statements about its diminishing the role of Jewish law in society is demonstrably false (at least compared to any reasonable counter factual). As is your understanding of the Israeli religiou politics - the role of Judaism in the state, including kosher food in the army, the existence of chesder yeshivas, etc, is much more the result of activism by Dati Leumi than by the haredim. As for your last sentence, thats merely an ad hominem, no more worthy of a wiki discussion than the assertion that haredim treat their gedolim in an idolatrous fashion. Ricardianman ( talk) 20:33, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
You continue to use the talk page to advocate for the haredi POV, not to discuss the article, in violation of Wiki rules. All authorities allow the shedding of blood for self defence, and the shedding of blood in Israel is exactly that. Shedding blood when you are attacked in Tel Aviv is no different, halachically then shedding blood when you attacked in the Ukraine. That is not the essence of the halachic disagreement on Zionism, which is about the entry into the land en masse. And that is something on which halachic authorities disagree - with almost all modern O authorities (as well as I think all C authorities) accepting that there is no halachic ban on entering see /info/en/?search=The_Three_Oaths#Modern_era
So it all boils down, as you said, to what is Judaism. Here is what it is per wikipedia - /info/en/?search=Judaism it is clearly much broader than haredi Judaism. Indeed Orthodox Judaism is broader than Haredi Judaism. It is therefore incorrect to say that, within Judaism, Yom Ha'atzmaut is not a chag because haredim say it is not. And your listing of whatever you don't like about Israel, or about non-Haredi Judaism will not change that. Do you think Israel has caused anti-semitism? It can be said with equal truth that haredi extremism, in particular disrespect for both secular law and for common mores and rules of courtesy, in the diaspora, have created antisemitism. I would strong requet that you keep to the rules and customs of wikipedia when acting as a wiki editor. Ricardianman ( talk) 21:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I have pruned a part of the Arab reactions sections, because that section was about reactions to some Arab reactions and reactions to _those_ reactions and the related court proceedings. Wiki already has an article on that subject which is linked in the text, so there's no justification to giving over 10 percent (2,517 / 17,706 = 14.2%) of this article for a complete coverage. This makes as much sense as entering a long discussion of the SCOTUS cases over flag burning into the Flag of the United States article and reactions to the outcome and so on. If anyone wishes to make a more prominent link that would be fine with me, but the previous section was simply WP:REDUNDANTFORK bordering on WP:UNDUE IMHO. 79.179.99.186 ( talk) 20:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
The statement "in Israel's capital city Jerusalem" is an NPOV violation. As I said in my edit summary "it is an NPOV violation to employ Wikipedia's unattributed neutral narrative voice to describe Jerusalem as Israel's capital". There can't be a valid WP:CONSENSUS for a a statement that violates policy. This issue has been discussed extensively at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Jerusalem. There are many ways to rewrite the statement in such a way that it does not misuse Wikipedia's unattributed neutral narrative voice. The policy violation will be corrected in due course. Its correction is simply inevitable. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:30, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved — Amakuru ( talk) 20:49, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
Yom Ha'atzmaut →
Independence Day (Israel) –
Amir E. Aharoni (
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This holiday is listed as on 23 April I understand that there's always some confusion what with jewish holidays starting at sun down and lasting until the next sun down. Which date is correct? I don't know, nor could I reliably check. - Kode 14:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It starts on the eve of April 23, but most calendars will list it as April 24, as most other Jewish holidays, although it starts the prior evening. Amechad 20:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
The paragraph is NOT confusing, but clarifying. I wish someone in my city had checked the 2004 law, as everyone here (6th largest US city) is celebrating israeli independence day on Monday 2007. It's possible that the calendar you have is incorrect.
An external link http://www.hebcal.com/news/2007/01/yom_haatzmaut_yom_hazikaron_2007.html quotes the wikipedia article, saying that the article explains the new dating.
The funny thing is that while people believe this holiday is - or almost always is - on 5 of Iyyar - it actually is almost never on that date! The Jewish calendar's rules which determine the allowed days of Passover (15 of Nissan) also determine the possible days of 5 of Iyyar. And *additionally* we want to exclude sunday, monday, saturday - we end up that 5 of Iyyar is rarely the date of independence day - it's usually moved forward or backward. If there's interest, I can come up with the exact details and explain them in the article. The basics are in here: /info/en/?search=Days_of_week_on_Hebrew_calendar Nyh ( talk) 11:57, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
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Add (* Yom-Ha’atzmaut BimBam Jewish Animation) at the bottom of the article under "External Links." This is a link to a website for a Jewish animation company called BimBam that specializes in animated videos that instruct about a variety of Jewish topics. This link in particular is to their video about Israeli Independence Day. Jewishnerd ( talk) 19:54, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
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It's 2018. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.224.79.1 ( talk) 07:22, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
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Please change
The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 8–9 May 2019.
to
The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 28–29 April 2020.
— Preceding
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Please change The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 28–29 April 2020. to The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 14–15 April 2021.
Please link between Torch-lighting Ceremony (Israel) and the "Independence Day eve" paragraph. for some reason it is not been linked yet. Sincereley, Chaimkapusta ( talk) 11:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Israeli Independence day was yesterday, April 18th. Not "19 May 2018 (Thursday, advanced one day to Iyar 4)" . איתן ( talk) 08:11, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
This article is not updated for the year 2021. It says the next independence day is in April 2020. Someone with 30/500 access please fix. SteelSmasher93 ( talk) 04:26, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
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In this line: Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, Peninei Halachah – Zmanim, Yom HaAtzmaut
The current code is:
The correct code with the updated link is:
link: https://ph.yhb.org.il/en/category/zemanim/05-04/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by AYHB ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
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change
The most recent occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut took place from sunset to sunset, 14-15 April 2021.
to
The most recent occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut took place from sunset to sunset, 4-5 May 2022. Dfa1234 ( talk) 13:19, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
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In the "short description" box, the lines: Pinchast ( talk) 07:25, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
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On the table at the top of the page, could someone fix it so it can show 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2026? The table only shows 2025. Can you please fix the table? Please. 2600:6C48:427F:9122:3593:26E4:5A00:25C0 ( talk) 03:23, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The specific ritual involved in observance of this day is a matter of controversy. Some Religious Zionists have declared that Yom Ha-Atzmaut is one of the Jewish Holidays in which Hallel should be said. This view has, however, been rejected by the majority of Orthodox Jewish halachic decisors including members of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.
The above is not totally accurate. After all, the Chief Rabbinate are the ones who said that one should say Hallel and I don't think the majority of Orthodox poskim said not to say Hallel. Most think Hallel should be said, some say without a blessing but I don't think you can say that a majority reject the practice of Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut.
This holiday is listed as on 23 April I understand that there's always some confusion what with jewish holidays starting at sun down and lasting until the next sun down. Which date is correct? I don't know, nor could I reliably check. - Kode 14:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It starts on the eve of April 23, but most calendars will list it as April 24, as most other Jewish holidays, although it starts the prior evening. Amechad 20:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
The paragraph is NOT confusing, but clarifying. I wish someone in my city had checked the 2004 law, as everyone here (6th largest US city) is celebrating israeli independence day on Monday 2007. It's possible that the calendar you have is incorrect.
An external link http://www.hebcal.com/news/2007/01/yom_haatzmaut_yom_hazikaron_2007.html quotes the wikipedia article, saying that the article explains the new dating.
The article states: "These four new days [including Yom HaShoah] are not accepted as religious holidays by Hasidim and Haredim. These groups view these new days as Israeli national holidays." I don't think anyone views Yom HaShoah as anything Israeli considering it commemorates the Holocaust and has little to do with modern Israel.
Yom HaSHoah is Israeli because its date and celebrations were invented by Israel. Shia1 09:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
This description from the article: "Yom HaShoah V'Hagevurah - Holocaust Remembrance day, on 27th of Nissan, commemorates the date of the uprising in Warsaw Ghetto in 1943", despite the initial translation, makes it sound like the purpose of the day is to commemorate the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which is obviously only one facet of the commemoration of the Holocaust itself. 38.112.113.242 15:36, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Keeves, I agree with your last edit - that information did not belong. What do you think about moving the page to Yom Ha'atzmaut, without the second apostrophe. It's more accurate, since there is an /א/ there, not an /ע/, and more importantly, it's the most popular spelling on Google. Pending comment, I am prepared to move the page. -- DLand TALK 16:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I am curious as to where the information comes for this. It seems possible that people would fast and wear sackcloth for the holiday that immediately precedes Yom Haatzmaut, Yom HaZikaron, the Rememberance Day that is a day of national mourning for those who died in Israel's wars, terrorist attacks, etc. Why would we harp on death on the next day too when we've already observed the mourning? Also, I haven't seen anyone mourning it but I have seen some angry Hassidim. Valley2city 18:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
No, it's true. On Yom HaAtzmaut, Neturei Karta'niks will wear ashes and sackcolth and fly either black or Palestinian flags or both. Satmer, Bobov, Munkatch, Chasam Soferniks, and pretty much the run of Hasidic and Hungarian anti-zionist Jewry holds it a fast day. SOme will fly black flags from their houses. Given the size of Satmar and Bobov, it basically means nearly 1/4 of all Sabbath keaping Jews hold YOm HaAtzmaut a day of mourning. These groups do not recognize Yom Zikaron, and will make a point of going about their bussiness when the siren blows, as do many Litvishik anti-ZIonists. Shia1 09:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
As this is the English language Wikipedia the article should use the English name, "Israeli Independence Day" or something similar. I propose moving. PatGallacher 21:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
This is an Israeli holiday, not a Jewish one. It seems to be miscategorized, but I'm hesitant to remove the category in case there's a good reason. Oren0 01:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
You are 100% correct, but given the desire to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, if you changed it, it would be reverted back with arguements that they are one and the same. YOu would then get into an arguement about what counts as "Jewish," something Jews do, or something that's part of Judaism. You would then get in an arguement about what is Judaism. You could also point out that it is actually forbidden to "Celebrate" anything during this time period on the Jewish calendar, as it is during the Omer. But you would be shouted down by 90 people. Shia1 14:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
It isn't fair to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, and Wikipedia is not the right place for arguements unless they relate to Wikipedia per se; please adhere to writing factual, neutral and verifiable (preferbly backed up with citation) information. -- AvihooI 03:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, but nevertheless, it is used that way, and it is going to be impossible to stop people from using it that way since 90% of the people interested in Jewish topics are Jews, and 90% of Jews are Zionist, and 90% of Zionists think it is appropriate to engage in Hasbara. (see article on Hasbara). For an interesting example, notice how the snipppet detailing anti-Zionist Jews way of marking the 5th of Iyar, which used to be the only piece of this article siting a source, has been sabotaged to lead to a Hasbarah website instead of to the title of the article it came from. 88.152.134.66 15:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Where do you get the statistics from?; I am Israeli, Jewish and Zionist, I do not find it necessary to have pro-Israeli material on an encyclopedia and especially one like Wikipedia. I think a biased information may even prove to be counter-productive: I insist that the articles be corrected for facts in order to fit the actual reality and if it's not going to, I'll have to involve higher authorities in Wikipedia. -- AvihooI 07:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
Such a broad generalization with no citation does not belong in the article. There are not only Muslim Arabs in Israel, but also Bedouin, Druze, and Christian Arabs. While Muslims may not celebrate Yom Ha'atzmaut, other Israeli Arabs most certainly do. The article on Arab citizens of Israel is a good reference in this issue.
It is my understanding that Christian Palestinians do not like Israel just as much as Muslim Palestinians do not like Israel, though their idea of proper resitence may be different. (The same could, by the way, be said for Jewish Palestinians.) THe article on Arab citizens of Israel mentions that though nearly 10% of Palestinians are Christian, only a dozen or so serve in the army. The rest do not want to betray the Arab world or Palestine. Do you have a source for Christian Palestinians celebrating the day in any greater numbers than Muslims? Or for bedoines? I'll leave this up for a few days for a response, then I'm deleting that bit of hasbarah as unsourced. 82.81.104.93 18:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Jewish palestinians?
you mean thoose 100+ Hyper-orthodox (for a lack of higher term then ultra) jews who live in east jerusalem , britain and the US who deny the holocaust? They view "palestinians"(arabs , etc) like the taliban views women.
I have moved this article to Independence Day (Israel) based on WP:COMMONNAME used in the English language media in Israel. For illustration, combining Haaretz, Jerusalem Post and Ynet, the totals are:
Number 5 7 13:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I added to the bullet point for the Conservative practice this text: "Some places also read the haftarah normally read on the last day of Pesach." Is this tradition observed in other branches also?
And I just realized I have access to the selection; I'll revise my text to state the actual verses. A More Perfect Onion ( talk) 13:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
Keeves, I agree with your last edit - that information did not belong. What do you think about moving the page to Yom Ha'atzmaut, without the second apostrophe. It's more accurate, since there is an /א/ there, not an /ע/, and more importantly, it's the most popular spelling on Google. Pending comment, I am prepared to move the page. -- DLand TALK 16:59, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
As this is the English language Wikipedia the article should use the English name, "Israeli Independence Day" or something similar. I propose moving. PatGallacher 21:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I am curious as to where the information comes for this. It seems possible that people would fast and wear sackcloth for the holiday that immediately precedes Yom Haatzmaut, Yom HaZikaron, the Rememberance Day that is a day of national mourning for those who died in Israel's wars, terrorist attacks, etc. Why would we harp on death on the next day too when we've already observed the mourning? Also, I haven't seen anyone mourning it but I have seen some angry Hassidim. Valley2city 18:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
No, it's true. On Yom HaAtzmaut, Neturei Karta'niks will wear ashes and sackcolth and fly either black or Palestinian flags or both. Satmer, Bobov, Munkatch, Chasam Soferniks, and pretty much the run of Hasidic and Hungarian anti-zionist Jewry holds it a fast day. SOme will fly black flags from their houses. Given the size of Satmar and Bobov, it basically means nearly 1/4 of all Sabbath keaping Jews hold YOm HaAtzmaut a day of mourning. These groups do not recognize Yom Zikaron, and will make a point of going about their bussiness when the siren blows, as do many Litvishik anti-ZIonists. Shia1 09:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Such a broad generalization with no citation does not belong in the article. There are not only Muslim Arabs in Israel, but also Bedouin, Druze, and Christian Arabs. While Muslims may not celebrate Yom Ha'atzmaut, other Israeli Arabs most certainly do. The article on Arab citizens of Israel is a good reference in this issue.
It is my understanding that Christian Palestinians do not like Israel just as much as Muslim Palestinians do not like Israel, though their idea of proper resitence may be different. (The same could, by the way, be said for Jewish Palestinians.) THe article on Arab citizens of Israel mentions that though nearly 10% of Palestinians are Christian, only a dozen or so serve in the army. The rest do not want to betray the Arab world or Palestine. Do you have a source for Christian Palestinians celebrating the day in any greater numbers than Muslims? Or for bedoines? I'll leave this up for a few days for a response, then I'm deleting that bit of hasbarah as unsourced. 82.81.104.93 18:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Jewish palestinians?
you mean thoose 100+ Hyper-orthodox (for a lack of higher term then ultra) jews who live in east jerusalem , britain and the US who deny the holocaust? They view "palestinians"(arabs , etc) like the taliban views women.
I have moved this article to Independence Day (Israel) based on WP:COMMONNAME used in the English language media in Israel. For illustration, combining Haaretz, Jerusalem Post and Ynet, the totals are:
Number 5 7 13:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was do not move.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk) 12:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Yom Ha'atzmaut →
Israel Independence Day — As this is the English wiki, the name should be in English. Thoughts anyone?
Philly jawn (
talk) 20:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
I added to the bullet point for the Conservative practice this text: "Some places also read the haftarah normally read on the last day of Pesach." Is this tradition observed in other branches also?
And I just realized I have access to the selection; I'll revise my text to state the actual verses. A More Perfect Onion ( talk) 13:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC) I have changed "places" to "Conservative Synagogues" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricardianman ( talk • contribs) 18:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
The specific ritual involved in observance of this day is a matter of controversy. Some Religious Zionists have declared that Yom Ha-Atzmaut is one of the Jewish Holidays in which Hallel should be said. This view has, however, been rejected by the majority of Orthodox Jewish halachic decisors including members of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.
The above is not totally accurate. After all, the Chief Rabbinate are the ones who said that one should say Hallel and I don't think the majority of Orthodox poskim said not to say Hallel. Most think Hallel should be said, some say without a blessing but I don't think you can say that a majority reject the practice of Hallel on Yom HaAtzmaut.
The article states: "These four new days [including Yom HaShoah] are not accepted as religious holidays by Hasidim and Haredim. These groups view these new days as Israeli national holidays." I don't think anyone views Yom HaShoah as anything Israeli considering it commemorates the Holocaust and has little to do with modern Israel.
Yom HaSHoah is Israeli because its date and celebrations were invented by Israel. Shia1 09:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Not to dispute anything here, but to illuminate: Israel (the country) celebrates a number of official national holidays. Most of them are also recognized by religious Jews as Jewish religious holy days (Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, just as Christmas is celebrated in Western countries). However, there are some "modern" state holidays that don't get accepted by religious Jews as holidays because they are not religious holidays. It raises the interesting question that if the Hebrew Bible is a history of the Jews, then when are they going to add the part up till the Holocaust? I think I heard that there are some Christian denominations in the US that don't accept Thanksgiving as a holiday. 71.190.66.244 ( talk) 00:31, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
This description from the article: "Yom HaShoah V'Hagevurah - Holocaust Remembrance day, on 27th of Nissan, commemorates the date of the uprising in Warsaw Ghetto in 1943", despite the initial translation, makes it sound like the purpose of the day is to commemorate the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which is obviously only one facet of the commemoration of the Holocaust itself. 38.112.113.242 15:36, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems as though this insertion is an attempt to delegitimize the holiday (as is the principle of nakba). It should not be included in the Related articles, for the same reason that Anti-Americanism should not be a related page of Independence Day (United States) - it is subversive and detracts from the neutral nature of the article. Arielkoiman ( talk) 19:54, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
This is an Israeli holiday, not a Jewish one. It seems to be miscategorized, but I'm hesitant to remove the category in case there's a good reason. Oren0 01:52, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
You are 100% correct, but given the desire to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, if you changed it, it would be reverted back with arguements that they are one and the same. YOu would then get into an arguement about what counts as "Jewish," something Jews do, or something that's part of Judaism. You would then get in an arguement about what is Judaism. You could also point out that it is actually forbidden to "Celebrate" anything during this time period on the Jewish calendar, as it is during the Omer. But you would be shouted down by 90 people. Shia1 14:07, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
It is allowed to celebrate Lag B'omer in the omer, because, its a chag. To those who consider Yom Haatzmaut a Chag, it is likewise permissible to celebrate it - and, BTW, to get your hair cut, to have a wedding, etc. Thats the point. Ricardianman ( talk) 21:29, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
It isn't fair to use Wikipedia for hasbarah, and Wikipedia is not the right place for arguements unless they relate to Wikipedia per se; please adhere to writing factual, neutral and verifiable (preferbly backed up with citation) information. -- AvihooI 03:15, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree, but nevertheless, it is used that way, and it is going to be impossible to stop people from using it that way since 90% of the people interested in Jewish topics are Jews, and 90% of Jews are Zionist, and 90% of Zionists think it is appropriate to engage in Hasbara. (see article on Hasbara). For an interesting example, notice how the snipppet detailing anti-Zionist Jews way of marking the 5th of Iyar, which used to be the only piece of this article siting a source, has been sabotaged to lead to a Hasbarah website instead of to the title of the article it came from. 88.152.134.66 15:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Where do you get the statistics from?; I am Israeli, Jewish and Zionist, I do not find it necessary to have pro-Israeli material on an encyclopedia and especially one like Wikipedia. I think a biased information may even prove to be counter-productive: I insist that the articles be corrected for facts in order to fit the actual reality and if it's not going to, I'll have to involve higher authorities in Wikipedia. -- AvihooI 07:14, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
In fact as is discussed in the article, Yom Ha'atzmaut IS treated as a religious holiday by many diaspora Jews - possibly the majority of Orthodox Jews in the diaspora, certainly the majority of Conservative Jews, and at least many Reform Jews. Therefor it is properly listed as Jewish religious holiday.
Ricardianman (
talk) 17:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
as you say, Jewish holiday are discussed in texts of Jewish religious law. there are many discussions of the halachic status of the Yom hatzmaut
https://www.google.com/#q=halacha+yom+haatzmaut Those discussions ARE texts of Jewish religious law - which did not stop with Talmud. If it did, then Simchat Torah would not be a Jewish Holiday. Passover and Hanukkah, BTW, have secular meanings in Israel (and even for a few diaspora Jews) (and those secular meanings may be closer to the original meanings than the religious meaningns are.) That Yom HaAtzmaut is primarily a secular Israeli holiday, does not mean it is not also a Jewish Holiday, in the meaning that has in Jewish law. As for whether sweet red wine is a "Jewish Bevegerage" I do not beleive there is, either in Jewish law, or in common English usage, such a thing as a Jewish beverage, in the same sense that there is a Jewish holiday. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Ricardianman (
talk •
contribs) 21:26, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
The point of a wiki article talk page is to discuss the article not side topics. The majority of modern Orthodox jews, and virtually all Conservative and Reform Jews, consider Yom Haatzmaut a religious holiday. You may not agree with their halachic approach, and may not count their rabbis in determining majorities, but its not useful for wikipedia as an encylopedia to enshrine the haredi view of halacha and Judaism, when that is not shared by a majority of Jews. Your view of the halachic ilicitness of the establishment of Israel is reject by almost all non-haredi authorities, and your statements about its diminishing the role of Jewish law in society is demonstrably false (at least compared to any reasonable counter factual). As is your understanding of the Israeli religiou politics - the role of Judaism in the state, including kosher food in the army, the existence of chesder yeshivas, etc, is much more the result of activism by Dati Leumi than by the haredim. As for your last sentence, thats merely an ad hominem, no more worthy of a wiki discussion than the assertion that haredim treat their gedolim in an idolatrous fashion. Ricardianman ( talk) 20:33, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
You continue to use the talk page to advocate for the haredi POV, not to discuss the article, in violation of Wiki rules. All authorities allow the shedding of blood for self defence, and the shedding of blood in Israel is exactly that. Shedding blood when you are attacked in Tel Aviv is no different, halachically then shedding blood when you attacked in the Ukraine. That is not the essence of the halachic disagreement on Zionism, which is about the entry into the land en masse. And that is something on which halachic authorities disagree - with almost all modern O authorities (as well as I think all C authorities) accepting that there is no halachic ban on entering see /info/en/?search=The_Three_Oaths#Modern_era
So it all boils down, as you said, to what is Judaism. Here is what it is per wikipedia - /info/en/?search=Judaism it is clearly much broader than haredi Judaism. Indeed Orthodox Judaism is broader than Haredi Judaism. It is therefore incorrect to say that, within Judaism, Yom Ha'atzmaut is not a chag because haredim say it is not. And your listing of whatever you don't like about Israel, or about non-Haredi Judaism will not change that. Do you think Israel has caused anti-semitism? It can be said with equal truth that haredi extremism, in particular disrespect for both secular law and for common mores and rules of courtesy, in the diaspora, have created antisemitism. I would strong requet that you keep to the rules and customs of wikipedia when acting as a wiki editor. Ricardianman ( talk) 21:16, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I have pruned a part of the Arab reactions sections, because that section was about reactions to some Arab reactions and reactions to _those_ reactions and the related court proceedings. Wiki already has an article on that subject which is linked in the text, so there's no justification to giving over 10 percent (2,517 / 17,706 = 14.2%) of this article for a complete coverage. This makes as much sense as entering a long discussion of the SCOTUS cases over flag burning into the Flag of the United States article and reactions to the outcome and so on. If anyone wishes to make a more prominent link that would be fine with me, but the previous section was simply WP:REDUNDANTFORK bordering on WP:UNDUE IMHO. 79.179.99.186 ( talk) 20:17, 28 April 2014 (UTC)
The statement "in Israel's capital city Jerusalem" is an NPOV violation. As I said in my edit summary "it is an NPOV violation to employ Wikipedia's unattributed neutral narrative voice to describe Jerusalem as Israel's capital". There can't be a valid WP:CONSENSUS for a a statement that violates policy. This issue has been discussed extensively at Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Jerusalem. There are many ways to rewrite the statement in such a way that it does not misuse Wikipedia's unattributed neutral narrative voice. The policy violation will be corrected in due course. Its correction is simply inevitable. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:30, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved — Amakuru ( talk) 20:49, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
Yom Ha'atzmaut →
Independence Day (Israel) –
Amir E. Aharoni (
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This holiday is listed as on 23 April I understand that there's always some confusion what with jewish holidays starting at sun down and lasting until the next sun down. Which date is correct? I don't know, nor could I reliably check. - Kode 14:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
It starts on the eve of April 23, but most calendars will list it as April 24, as most other Jewish holidays, although it starts the prior evening. Amechad 20:18, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
The paragraph is NOT confusing, but clarifying. I wish someone in my city had checked the 2004 law, as everyone here (6th largest US city) is celebrating israeli independence day on Monday 2007. It's possible that the calendar you have is incorrect.
An external link http://www.hebcal.com/news/2007/01/yom_haatzmaut_yom_hazikaron_2007.html quotes the wikipedia article, saying that the article explains the new dating.
The funny thing is that while people believe this holiday is - or almost always is - on 5 of Iyyar - it actually is almost never on that date! The Jewish calendar's rules which determine the allowed days of Passover (15 of Nissan) also determine the possible days of 5 of Iyyar. And *additionally* we want to exclude sunday, monday, saturday - we end up that 5 of Iyyar is rarely the date of independence day - it's usually moved forward or backward. If there's interest, I can come up with the exact details and explain them in the article. The basics are in here: /info/en/?search=Days_of_week_on_Hebrew_calendar Nyh ( talk) 11:57, 30 April 2017 (UTC)
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Add (* Yom-Ha’atzmaut BimBam Jewish Animation) at the bottom of the article under "External Links." This is a link to a website for a Jewish animation company called BimBam that specializes in animated videos that instruct about a variety of Jewish topics. This link in particular is to their video about Israeli Independence Day. Jewishnerd ( talk) 19:54, 15 June 2017 (UTC)
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It's 2018. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.224.79.1 ( talk) 07:22, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
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Please change
The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 8–9 May 2019.
to
The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 28–29 April 2020.
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Please change The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 28–29 April 2020. to The next occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut will take place on 14–15 April 2021.
Please link between Torch-lighting Ceremony (Israel) and the "Independence Day eve" paragraph. for some reason it is not been linked yet. Sincereley, Chaimkapusta ( talk) 11:44, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Israeli Independence day was yesterday, April 18th. Not "19 May 2018 (Thursday, advanced one day to Iyar 4)" . איתן ( talk) 08:11, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
This article is not updated for the year 2021. It says the next independence day is in April 2020. Someone with 30/500 access please fix. SteelSmasher93 ( talk) 04:26, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
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In this line: Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, Peninei Halachah – Zmanim, Yom HaAtzmaut
The current code is:
The correct code with the updated link is:
link: https://ph.yhb.org.il/en/category/zemanim/05-04/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by AYHB ( talk • contribs) 14:05, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
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change
The most recent occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut took place from sunset to sunset, 14-15 April 2021.
to
The most recent occurrence of Yom Haatzmaut took place from sunset to sunset, 4-5 May 2022. Dfa1234 ( talk) 13:19, 6 May 2022 (UTC)
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In the "short description" box, the lines: Pinchast ( talk) 07:25, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
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On the table at the top of the page, could someone fix it so it can show 2022, 2023, 2024, and 2026? The table only shows 2025. Can you please fix the table? Please. 2600:6C48:427F:9122:3593:26E4:5A00:25C0 ( talk) 03:23, 7 March 2023 (UTC)