Incitement to genocide was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
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A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
June 22, 2020. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Iranian president
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's call for Israel to be "wiped off the map" has been described as
incitement to genocide? | |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result was: promoted by
Cwmhiraeth (
talk) 06:36, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Created by Buidhe ( talk). Self-nominated at 14:40, 9 May 2020 (UTC).
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived. |
With this article it is important to avoid original research and classifying speech as incitement to genocide if reliable sources do not. To that end, I am starting a list of the terms can be considered synonymous because their definition is equivalent to "incitement to genocide", and which cannot. b uidh e 17:44, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Pi ( talk · contribs) 00:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
GA review – see
WP:WIAGA for criteria
I've been trying to acquire some of the offline sources from a library but I've had no luck due to Covid-19 and the libraries being closed, so I'm going to do the best I can with what I can get online. If there's anything that I think really needs checking in the source I will make further attempts to get them. There's a couple of issues which I think might be a bit problematic. I'm not saying they're blockers necessarily, I'm just listing my thoughts for now. Feel free to make some comments
@Buidhe, No worries, can you ping me when you've finished going over it and then I'll take another look Pi (Talk to me!) 01:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Pi (Talk to me!) 23:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
I know this is quite a general point, but some of the sections in the Definitions and Types section are very small, some only one sentence. Could some of the paragraphs be merged together? Alternatively, since some of these sections, such as 'Asking questions only contain a specific example of something that was held to be incitement to genocide, perhaps they could be moved to the case law sections.
I have looked over the changes that you have made and I am now happy to pass the article as GA Pi (Talk to me!) 02:57, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Was getting too long and I am not sure that all of these meet the MOS criteria, so removed to Talk:Incitement to genocide/Further reading. Please feel free to draw on these sources for expanding the article. b uidh e 08:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Some of the citations in this article may not be appropriate for a law article. I am very concerned that this article is developing novel legal arguments that are not discussed by any law books or treatises. I hope this is not the case, but some of the non-legal discussion may be better incorporated into other articles. JudgeJells ( talk) 13:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Examples are extremely limited, POV and one-sided, e.g.:
During a 2014 children's broadcast on Al-Aqsa TV, one of the participants says that she wants to "shoot Jews", all of them.[107]
So was this child guilty of calls to genocide? Shall we arrest and try her?
Let us mention /info/en/?search=Meir_Kahane
where a direct link to massacres and terrorism was repeatedly established by ... the Israeli and US governments:
In 1994, following the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre of Palestinian Muslim worshippers in Hebron by Kach supporter Baruch Goldstein, in which 29 Muslim worshipers were killed, the Israeli government declared both parties to be terrorist organizations.[82][83] The US State Department also added Kach and Kahane Chai to its list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations.
(and their previous US bombings).
What about Iraqis:
The Simele massacre inspired Raphael Lemkin to create the concept of genocide.[269]
with
the persistent anti-Christian propaganda and rumours insisted that the Christians were planning to blow bridges up and to poison drinking water in major Iraqi cities....
and many other examples from here: /info/en/?search=Genocides_in_history
Does this sound like call for genocide? :
The Germans are not humans. […] We shall kill. If during a day you have not killed a single German, you have wasted the day. […] If you do not kill the German, he will kill you. […] If it is quiet at your section of the front and you are waiting for the battle, kill a German before the battle. [...] If you have killed a German, kill another one too.
This illustrious gentleman: /info/en/?search=Ilya_Ehrenburg whose words lead to genocidal and planned par excellence: /info/en/?search=Soviet_war_crimes.
-> Let us add planned and incited cases in Equatorial Guinea, Georgia, Indonesia, Bangladesh...: these are but random examples. Zezen ( talk) 02:32, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
No. As a gadfly WikiDragon and on mobile late at night, I alert yous to these heavy POV instead. The faultsnof the article are obvious. Do the legwork on a full PC, please, especially in context of the GA review. Here a 2 secs find: a NPR RS for a case above: https://www.npr.org/2011/03/29/134956180/criminals-see-their- victims-as-less-than-human
... the Russian-Jewish poet and novelist Ilya Ehrenburg was churning out propaganda for distribution to Stalin's Red Army. These pamphlets seethed with dehumanizing rhetoric: they spoke of "the smell of Germany's animal breath," and described Germans as "two-legged animals who have mastered the technique of war" — "ersatz men" who ought to be annihilated. "The Germans are not human beings," Ehrenburg wrote,
-> Find these. Use them to restore POV. Bows Zezen ( talk) 02:46, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Pinging (Talk to me!) in view of his GA Review imprimatur hereinabove.
I wonder if I take the trouble to track this source down if it will be a reliable source for "This propaganda led directly to the murder of over a million Armenians". I have read several general books about the genocide that was one of the most complicated with so many different factors and they make no mention of this as a major contributing factor. I'm not certain if this has to do with literacy and the media was not as well developed in those years as it was in later genocides. Is the source mainly advocating for the indictment of Iran's President for genocide for not being a supporter of Israel? I'm not a supporter of authoritarian regimes (in general) but this is too ] to be cited on Wikipedia. Gwynhaas ( talk) 18:14, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
@ Buidhe: I'm dismayed to see this revert. Much of the deleted text is firmly referenced to Atrocity Speech Law: Foundation, Fragmentation, Fruition by Gregory S. Gordon Oxford University Press. Gordon is described as an "American scholar of international law and a former genocide prosecutor." His book, as I understand it, explicity draws the connection between instances of speech and instances of genocide. This is not OR and it's doubtful if it is FRINGE; OUP is not generally considered a purveyor of fringe. -- Tagishsimon ( talk) 17:22, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
Incitement to genocide was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
A
fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the "
Did you know?" column on
June 22, 2020. The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Iranian president
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's call for Israel to be "wiped off the map" has been described as
incitement to genocide? | |||||||||||||
Current status: Delisted good article |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result was: promoted by
Cwmhiraeth (
talk) 06:36, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Created by Buidhe ( talk). Self-nominated at 14:40, 9 May 2020 (UTC).
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived. |
With this article it is important to avoid original research and classifying speech as incitement to genocide if reliable sources do not. To that end, I am starting a list of the terms can be considered synonymous because their definition is equivalent to "incitement to genocide", and which cannot. b uidh e 17:44, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Pi ( talk · contribs) 00:04, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
GA review – see
WP:WIAGA for criteria
I've been trying to acquire some of the offline sources from a library but I've had no luck due to Covid-19 and the libraries being closed, so I'm going to do the best I can with what I can get online. If there's anything that I think really needs checking in the source I will make further attempts to get them. There's a couple of issues which I think might be a bit problematic. I'm not saying they're blockers necessarily, I'm just listing my thoughts for now. Feel free to make some comments
@Buidhe, No worries, can you ping me when you've finished going over it and then I'll take another look Pi (Talk to me!) 01:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Pi (Talk to me!) 23:33, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
I know this is quite a general point, but some of the sections in the Definitions and Types section are very small, some only one sentence. Could some of the paragraphs be merged together? Alternatively, since some of these sections, such as 'Asking questions only contain a specific example of something that was held to be incitement to genocide, perhaps they could be moved to the case law sections.
I have looked over the changes that you have made and I am now happy to pass the article as GA Pi (Talk to me!) 02:57, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Was getting too long and I am not sure that all of these meet the MOS criteria, so removed to Talk:Incitement to genocide/Further reading. Please feel free to draw on these sources for expanding the article. b uidh e 08:25, 29 May 2020 (UTC)
Some of the citations in this article may not be appropriate for a law article. I am very concerned that this article is developing novel legal arguments that are not discussed by any law books or treatises. I hope this is not the case, but some of the non-legal discussion may be better incorporated into other articles. JudgeJells ( talk) 13:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Examples are extremely limited, POV and one-sided, e.g.:
During a 2014 children's broadcast on Al-Aqsa TV, one of the participants says that she wants to "shoot Jews", all of them.[107]
So was this child guilty of calls to genocide? Shall we arrest and try her?
Let us mention /info/en/?search=Meir_Kahane
where a direct link to massacres and terrorism was repeatedly established by ... the Israeli and US governments:
In 1994, following the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre of Palestinian Muslim worshippers in Hebron by Kach supporter Baruch Goldstein, in which 29 Muslim worshipers were killed, the Israeli government declared both parties to be terrorist organizations.[82][83] The US State Department also added Kach and Kahane Chai to its list of Foreign Terrorist Organizations.
(and their previous US bombings).
What about Iraqis:
The Simele massacre inspired Raphael Lemkin to create the concept of genocide.[269]
with
the persistent anti-Christian propaganda and rumours insisted that the Christians were planning to blow bridges up and to poison drinking water in major Iraqi cities....
and many other examples from here: /info/en/?search=Genocides_in_history
Does this sound like call for genocide? :
The Germans are not humans. […] We shall kill. If during a day you have not killed a single German, you have wasted the day. […] If you do not kill the German, he will kill you. […] If it is quiet at your section of the front and you are waiting for the battle, kill a German before the battle. [...] If you have killed a German, kill another one too.
This illustrious gentleman: /info/en/?search=Ilya_Ehrenburg whose words lead to genocidal and planned par excellence: /info/en/?search=Soviet_war_crimes.
-> Let us add planned and incited cases in Equatorial Guinea, Georgia, Indonesia, Bangladesh...: these are but random examples. Zezen ( talk) 02:32, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
No. As a gadfly WikiDragon and on mobile late at night, I alert yous to these heavy POV instead. The faultsnof the article are obvious. Do the legwork on a full PC, please, especially in context of the GA review. Here a 2 secs find: a NPR RS for a case above: https://www.npr.org/2011/03/29/134956180/criminals-see-their- victims-as-less-than-human
... the Russian-Jewish poet and novelist Ilya Ehrenburg was churning out propaganda for distribution to Stalin's Red Army. These pamphlets seethed with dehumanizing rhetoric: they spoke of "the smell of Germany's animal breath," and described Germans as "two-legged animals who have mastered the technique of war" — "ersatz men" who ought to be annihilated. "The Germans are not human beings," Ehrenburg wrote,
-> Find these. Use them to restore POV. Bows Zezen ( talk) 02:46, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Pinging (Talk to me!) in view of his GA Review imprimatur hereinabove.
I wonder if I take the trouble to track this source down if it will be a reliable source for "This propaganda led directly to the murder of over a million Armenians". I have read several general books about the genocide that was one of the most complicated with so many different factors and they make no mention of this as a major contributing factor. I'm not certain if this has to do with literacy and the media was not as well developed in those years as it was in later genocides. Is the source mainly advocating for the indictment of Iran's President for genocide for not being a supporter of Israel? I'm not a supporter of authoritarian regimes (in general) but this is too ] to be cited on Wikipedia. Gwynhaas ( talk) 18:14, 27 July 2022 (UTC)
@ Buidhe: I'm dismayed to see this revert. Much of the deleted text is firmly referenced to Atrocity Speech Law: Foundation, Fragmentation, Fruition by Gregory S. Gordon Oxford University Press. Gordon is described as an "American scholar of international law and a former genocide prosecutor." His book, as I understand it, explicity draws the connection between instances of speech and instances of genocide. This is not OR and it's doubtful if it is FRINGE; OUP is not generally considered a purveyor of fringe. -- Tagishsimon ( talk) 17:22, 10 November 2023 (UTC)