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Does Gollum really count considering we're dealing with a character with a kind of split personality? 199.133.19.254 ( talk) 18:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
How does one pronounce this vowelly word? Posting this question at Wiktionary too. -- 74.211.165.18 ( talk) 20:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Didn't Rurouni Kenshin say "This one" instead of "I" a lot? -- Heero Kirashami ( talk) 01:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Ice Bear from We Bear Bears is missing. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.201.193 ( talk) 18:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
In those cases, I'm a strong believer of keeping these lists shorter rather than making them longer. Cite some universal examples so everybody knows what the example is about, and has something to look-up if they need/want a real life example. Characters that are well-knówn for their illeism. Not just "they used it in that óne scene". Also consider that what is "well-known" for a fervert anime fan, could be útterly obscure to the general public. It just diminishes the use of the list: if people have to read through 200 names before they find someone they are familiar with, they simply won't bother, and all the effort put into it is wasted. Save for a sense of accomplishment for the few editors that created it.
No, in fact we need fewer on the list. A number of people on the list are not illeists, but merely people who have referred to themselves in third person occasionally, or even just once. E.g. Donald Trump is not an illeist, he just talks about himself a lot. --
66.190.13.201 (
talk)
07:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
The pseudodelete done here in blanking the page and replacing it with a cross-project redirect was the unWikian move. The topic deserves a discussion and explanation and even a history would be nice. While a dicdef and list was not a good format for an article on the topic, blanking it into a redirect to Wikt is not either. {{ Sofixit}} doesn't (or shouldn't) mean "make it somebody else's problem". - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 19:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
It'd be nice to un-listify the page or separate Illeism and List of illeists (which is a pretty unorthodox title frankly -- can one be 'an illeist'?) into separate articles. Changing the title of the page because it's form doesn't fit it's title does not improve the encyclopedia. It's in fact the quick, lazy, and brain-dead thing to do. Instead, the list should be pared down, removed, or demerged, and the article go back to focusing on illeism. For example: Etymology? Use in fields? Examples from different media? Explanation of the purpose(s) behind the practice? Origin of the practice? It's easy to add "Oh, that guy in that movie talked about himself in the third person, I'll add him to the list". It is not as useful however as covering discussions as to why so-and-so did that. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 19:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Grimlock always refers to himself as "Me Grimlock" not "Grimlock" if he mentions me then it is not really third person but broken English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.75.89 ( talk) 20:06, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
What is it called when you refer to someone you're talking to in third person rather than second person? E.g. When a father says to his son, "he needs to do his homework" instead of "you need to do your homework". Nikofeelan ( talk) 21:09, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
It's sometimes used where English would use "he", but its basic literal meaning is more along the lines of "that one"... AnonMoos ( talk) 21:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Since illeism is noted in the article as being cultural in Japanese anime/manga, should the fictional characters be placed in its own subsection? Should there be other categories such as Literature, Comic Books, Manga and Anime, Film, Television, Video Games, Others. AngusWOOF ( talk) 17:57, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Pondering if this should be included:
If so, it needs references to essays and literature analysis that make this link. One argument against is that Laurie also refers to himself in the story. AngusWOOF ( talk) 20:26, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Should lyrics that mention the artist's names be considered illeisms? It seems like common promotional practice. Anyway I took this out until someone can cite a review that associates the song with illeisms.
AngusWOOF ( talk) 22:17, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
This user is not sure that a catchphrase like "HULK SMASH" or whatever should really count as an illeism. Gollum is a much better example as he constantly and continually refers to himself in the third person, and not just on the odd occasion. I think that this list should be restricted to those that use illeism frequently, and not just in the sense that they occasionally say their own name.
Another thought - is it an illeism if an organisation like a committee refers to itself in the third person? e.g. "it is the opinion of the Select Committee for Finance that..." instead of "it is our opinion that..."? I think that this is an example of illeism, and possibly quite good because it's not yet another entertainment example. But I'm not quite feeling quite bold enough to add it without some consensus. 203.97.127.101 ( talk) 11:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
[1] has excerpts of analysis of illeisms. It might be useful to integrate into the article. If anyone could dig up more psychology references that would help too. - AngusWOOF ( talk) 17:00, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
WAT? "This Senator" is a constant usage in the US Senate. Why is this not mentioned? At least as importantly, why is it not mentioned as at least a partial explanation for Senator Dole's behavior? Or is the SNL appearance the only thing that counts? Nathan Zook — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1008:11:BC24:20F7:5BE1:ABC7 ( talk) 18:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
When does this become creepy? 86.84.56.169 ( talk) 16:53, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
What do you mean? When illeists become creepy? Or when the article goes into WP:CREEP? AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 17:22, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Alice Cooper is both a singer and band, just like Marilyn Manson. It's not really third person, although surely confusing.
Cerebus the Aardvark says "I" just once (well, twice in one sentence, iirc) in an early issue. Much later, when he goes into politics, he is persuaded to use "I", but it doesn't stick. Tamfang does not know what documentation of this is appropriate and available. — Tamfang ( talk) 06:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Is it illeism to speak of a set of which the speaker is a member? — Tamfang ( talk) 04:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Illeism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
![]() | The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
Does Gollum really count considering we're dealing with a character with a kind of split personality? 199.133.19.254 ( talk) 18:01, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
How does one pronounce this vowelly word? Posting this question at Wiktionary too. -- 74.211.165.18 ( talk) 20:49, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Didn't Rurouni Kenshin say "This one" instead of "I" a lot? -- Heero Kirashami ( talk) 01:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Ice Bear from We Bear Bears is missing. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.201.193 ( talk) 18:33, 5 July 2018 (UTC)
In those cases, I'm a strong believer of keeping these lists shorter rather than making them longer. Cite some universal examples so everybody knows what the example is about, and has something to look-up if they need/want a real life example. Characters that are well-knówn for their illeism. Not just "they used it in that óne scene". Also consider that what is "well-known" for a fervert anime fan, could be útterly obscure to the general public. It just diminishes the use of the list: if people have to read through 200 names before they find someone they are familiar with, they simply won't bother, and all the effort put into it is wasted. Save for a sense of accomplishment for the few editors that created it.
No, in fact we need fewer on the list. A number of people on the list are not illeists, but merely people who have referred to themselves in third person occasionally, or even just once. E.g. Donald Trump is not an illeist, he just talks about himself a lot. --
66.190.13.201 (
talk)
07:52, 20 October 2020 (UTC)
The pseudodelete done here in blanking the page and replacing it with a cross-project redirect was the unWikian move. The topic deserves a discussion and explanation and even a history would be nice. While a dicdef and list was not a good format for an article on the topic, blanking it into a redirect to Wikt is not either. {{ Sofixit}} doesn't (or shouldn't) mean "make it somebody else's problem". - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 19:24, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
It'd be nice to un-listify the page or separate Illeism and List of illeists (which is a pretty unorthodox title frankly -- can one be 'an illeist'?) into separate articles. Changing the title of the page because it's form doesn't fit it's title does not improve the encyclopedia. It's in fact the quick, lazy, and brain-dead thing to do. Instead, the list should be pared down, removed, or demerged, and the article go back to focusing on illeism. For example: Etymology? Use in fields? Examples from different media? Explanation of the purpose(s) behind the practice? Origin of the practice? It's easy to add "Oh, that guy in that movie talked about himself in the third person, I'll add him to the list". It is not as useful however as covering discussions as to why so-and-so did that. - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 19:16, 8 June 2010 (UTC)
Grimlock always refers to himself as "Me Grimlock" not "Grimlock" if he mentions me then it is not really third person but broken English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.106.75.89 ( talk) 20:06, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
What is it called when you refer to someone you're talking to in third person rather than second person? E.g. When a father says to his son, "he needs to do his homework" instead of "you need to do your homework". Nikofeelan ( talk) 21:09, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
It's sometimes used where English would use "he", but its basic literal meaning is more along the lines of "that one"... AnonMoos ( talk) 21:29, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Since illeism is noted in the article as being cultural in Japanese anime/manga, should the fictional characters be placed in its own subsection? Should there be other categories such as Literature, Comic Books, Manga and Anime, Film, Television, Video Games, Others. AngusWOOF ( talk) 17:57, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Pondering if this should be included:
If so, it needs references to essays and literature analysis that make this link. One argument against is that Laurie also refers to himself in the story. AngusWOOF ( talk) 20:26, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Should lyrics that mention the artist's names be considered illeisms? It seems like common promotional practice. Anyway I took this out until someone can cite a review that associates the song with illeisms.
AngusWOOF ( talk) 22:17, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
This user is not sure that a catchphrase like "HULK SMASH" or whatever should really count as an illeism. Gollum is a much better example as he constantly and continually refers to himself in the third person, and not just on the odd occasion. I think that this list should be restricted to those that use illeism frequently, and not just in the sense that they occasionally say their own name.
Another thought - is it an illeism if an organisation like a committee refers to itself in the third person? e.g. "it is the opinion of the Select Committee for Finance that..." instead of "it is our opinion that..."? I think that this is an example of illeism, and possibly quite good because it's not yet another entertainment example. But I'm not quite feeling quite bold enough to add it without some consensus. 203.97.127.101 ( talk) 11:49, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
[1] has excerpts of analysis of illeisms. It might be useful to integrate into the article. If anyone could dig up more psychology references that would help too. - AngusWOOF ( talk) 17:00, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
WAT? "This Senator" is a constant usage in the US Senate. Why is this not mentioned? At least as importantly, why is it not mentioned as at least a partial explanation for Senator Dole's behavior? Or is the SNL appearance the only thing that counts? Nathan Zook — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2620:0:1008:11:BC24:20F7:5BE1:ABC7 ( talk) 18:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
When does this become creepy? 86.84.56.169 ( talk) 16:53, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
What do you mean? When illeists become creepy? Or when the article goes into WP:CREEP? AngusWOOF ( bark • sniff) 17:22, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Alice Cooper is both a singer and band, just like Marilyn Manson. It's not really third person, although surely confusing.
Cerebus the Aardvark says "I" just once (well, twice in one sentence, iirc) in an early issue. Much later, when he goes into politics, he is persuaded to use "I", but it doesn't stick. Tamfang does not know what documentation of this is appropriate and available. — Tamfang ( talk) 06:41, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
Is it illeism to speak of a set of which the speaker is a member? — Tamfang ( talk) 04:29, 23 June 2023 (UTC)