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Archive 1 |
Is the separation of ijtihad in Sunni-islam and shia-islam necessary?
To me it seems the chapter concerning ijtihad in sunni-islam is far more specific than the one on ijtihad in Shia-islam, which seems to be a more general explanation/definition of ijtihad?
Besides: What's with the headline in the chapter on ijtihad in Shia-islam? right now it says Ijtihad in 12er Shi'a Islam. which hardly seems to be on purpose? Gregers 22:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
WHAT is a terminus technicus? -- Zoe
This is an article in English Wikipedia.
It is very annoying and troublesome that articles about Islam are so replete with arabic words that english speakers cannot understand.
For example, I would like every instance of the word " ijma" to be replaced by the english word "consensus". As far as I can tell, there is no difference in meaning. The use of these foreign words amounts to obscurantism.
By the way, I studied Latin at school for 5 years. I can translate 'terminus technicus' with no difficulty; but this is the first time I have ever come across the phrase.
MrDemeanour ( talk) 14:45, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
"This resulted in the muslims entering the dark ages, where they have been ever since." . Um, that doesn't sound very NPOV, does it? 80.126.238.189 18:39, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I think a more proper translation of "ijtihad" would be "(active) initiative" (as opposed to "(passive) imitation"). The basic meaning is "effort," without necessarily having the connotation of "an effort against s.o. or something." Ijtihad is a personal effort to make a rational determination about what is right to do under given circumstances, and as such resembles the European tradition of casuistry in some ways.
I'm guessing that this is the same word most often rendered in English as "jihad". Am I mistaken? That spelling does not even appear in this article. I'm not interested in arguing over the article title, but assuming it is the same word, such a common spelling should certainly appear in the article. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:14, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)
No, it has nothing to do with jihad; both terms do come from the same verb "jahada", but have very different meanings. - Mustafaa 23:16, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I personally think the commn root verb should be ignored in the article. I only have a touris Arabic, but know Hebrew, and can tell you most ENglish speakers will misunderstand root verbs and what it meens that two words share a common root. They usually think "root verb" meens "what the word really meeans." TO get the real idea across it will take more sentances than its worth. Shia1 00:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Anon, cut-n-pasting a whole article is a copyvio. Giving that much space to one POV would also unbalance the entire article. If you want, put in a link to the online source where you found the article. Zora 06:53, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
No it is certainly necessary to have Sunni ijtihad and Shi'a ijtihad separate. Unfortunately there really isn't much information here (yet), but there is an important distinction. With the Hidden Imam in Greater Occultation (ghayba) the Twelver Shi'a community cannot technically conduct ijtihad. The mujtahid have been said to be the representatives of the Hidden Imam on earth, but this is political doctrine that doesn't fall completely in line with historical Shi'ism and theological dogma. There are many hadith arguing this dissimulation (taqiyya) for the Shi'a community, but Shi'ites through history, such as Ayatollah Khomeini, for instance, make large cases for activist Shi'a government (thus created in Iran in 1979).see: Encyclopedia of Islam articles on id̲j̲tihād and mujtahid and Wilāyat-i faḳīh But it is true that this distinct Twelver section needs work in order to explain this stuff. A.J. 1844, 13 March 2007 Ajaime 23:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
How they came up with these set of criteria to accept someone to be scholar?
I don’t see any signature of them in Quran,except knowing Arabic language of Quran.
For me they are secular since has NO bases on Quran. Wael Faiez 14:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Is this word relates to people that were fighting in Afghanistan as mujakhadeens? For trivia purposes:), the Russian called them simply as mujakhed or mujakhedi(plural). Now the name is common in Russian in relationship to Muslims outside of the former Soviet Union. Aleksandr Grigoryev ( talk) 01:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Mujtahed does not relate to mujhaadedin in meaning, but there is a relationship in its grammatical derivation. This similarity has to do with the Ism Faa3l concept in Arabic grammar. This grammatical rule governs the construction of nouns from their verbal roots. As noted above, jihad (جهاد)(Form III) and ijtihad (اجتهاد) (Form VIII) come from the same three-letter root (ج-ه-د). An Ism Faa3l is the active noun derived from a verb, i.e., "one who does/performs verb X." For verbs forms III and VIII, the Ism Faa3l is created by adding the letter meem (م, equivalent to M in English) to the beginning of the present tense form the the verb, sans any prefixes or suffixes (and by changing the internal voweling a bit, but we don't need to get into that). The present tense form of jihad, without any pre/suf-fixes in jaahed (جاهد). ٍAdding the letter meem to jaahed makes "mujaahed" (مجاهد). One of the two plural forms of mujaahed is mujaahedin (مجاهدين). So this translates as "one who struggles" or "one who performs jihad (be it greater or lesser)" or "freedom-fighter" (if you're Ronald Reagan and trying to drum up American support for jihadis in the 80s). So in the same way, add the letter meem to ijtihad's present form, jtahed (جتهد) and you gut mujtahed (مجتهج), so this literally translates to "one who performs ijtihad" and is therefor used as an official title for people accredited to perform ijtihad.
Long answer short, jihad and ijtihad come from the same root, j-h-d, and therefore the words for the people who perform each of these actions are also formed from the same root. Since these nouns are formed in a similar way for most verbs, you get the word for "one who does jihad" looking like "mujaahed" (or the more commonly seen plural, mujaahedin), and the word for "one who engages in ijtihaad" looking like mujtihad. Ohk321 ( talk) 04:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Just wanted to let you all know that for a final project in an Islamic Jurisprudence course at Colgate University we will be contributing some edits to this page. We feel that this page requires some basic reorganization, more citations, and more depth. If you have any questions or concerns please let us know. We would really appreciate if you limit the amount of edits while we are conducting this project. Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely, The Colgate Crew Epenberthy14 ( talk) 14:07, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
I am a bit perplexed by the comments I recently removed regarding Wahhabism and ijtihad. The text, describing the Saudi government as oppressive, is obviously a breach of WP:NPOV. What I found quite amateur is that the source did claim that Wahhabists view ijtihad as "sinful." If we take a general reading of the available reliable sources, we find that the Wahhabists are part of the latter-day (post Ibn Taymiyyah) Hanbali school, and thus their position toward ijtihad is the same as followers of the other three main Sunni schools of thought. It's easy to conclude that the comments grant undue weight to a rather odd characterization, as Azhar, a prime seat of Sunni learning (and opponent of the Wahhabi movement) also considers attempts to exercise ijtihad in the modern era to be sinful with the exception of a few more modern, progressive professors. Thus, the characterization is quite inappropriate and hence I have removed the comment. MezzoMezzo ( talk) 10:10, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
I am a Muslim and struggling to make sense of what the lead is saying, and I already know what Ijithad means. What about the normal reader?-- Inayity ( talk) 14:23, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
This definition implies four main principles: (1) It is the mujtahid's effort that counts; a non-mujtahid's effort is of no consequence. (2) Effort must be exerted to the ultimate limits of one's ability. (3) Effort should be directed towards the discovery of shar'i rules. (4) The method of discovery should be based in the interpretation of texts, assisted by other sources.
Ijtihad is not exclusively Islamic. Secular legislators, also, make ijtihad by striving to make laws that conform to the public policies of their societies and advance its objectives. These objectives are often enumerated in their constitutions or bills of rights. Similarly, judges make Ijtihad by interpreting the law. In doing so, they are guided by the wording of the law; the legislators' intentions found in reports and speeches; and interpretations given by other judges in similar circumstances. (islamic city)-- Inayity ( talk) 17:14, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
moved here til sourced, WP:OR
-- tickle me 19:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Is the separation of ijtihad in Sunni-islam and shia-islam necessary?
To me it seems the chapter concerning ijtihad in sunni-islam is far more specific than the one on ijtihad in Shia-islam, which seems to be a more general explanation/definition of ijtihad?
Besides: What's with the headline in the chapter on ijtihad in Shia-islam? right now it says Ijtihad in 12er Shi'a Islam. which hardly seems to be on purpose? Gregers 22:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
WHAT is a terminus technicus? -- Zoe
This is an article in English Wikipedia.
It is very annoying and troublesome that articles about Islam are so replete with arabic words that english speakers cannot understand.
For example, I would like every instance of the word " ijma" to be replaced by the english word "consensus". As far as I can tell, there is no difference in meaning. The use of these foreign words amounts to obscurantism.
By the way, I studied Latin at school for 5 years. I can translate 'terminus technicus' with no difficulty; but this is the first time I have ever come across the phrase.
MrDemeanour ( talk) 14:45, 22 December 2014 (UTC)
"This resulted in the muslims entering the dark ages, where they have been ever since." . Um, that doesn't sound very NPOV, does it? 80.126.238.189 18:39, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I think a more proper translation of "ijtihad" would be "(active) initiative" (as opposed to "(passive) imitation"). The basic meaning is "effort," without necessarily having the connotation of "an effort against s.o. or something." Ijtihad is a personal effort to make a rational determination about what is right to do under given circumstances, and as such resembles the European tradition of casuistry in some ways.
I'm guessing that this is the same word most often rendered in English as "jihad". Am I mistaken? That spelling does not even appear in this article. I'm not interested in arguing over the article title, but assuming it is the same word, such a common spelling should certainly appear in the article. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:14, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)
No, it has nothing to do with jihad; both terms do come from the same verb "jahada", but have very different meanings. - Mustafaa 23:16, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I personally think the commn root verb should be ignored in the article. I only have a touris Arabic, but know Hebrew, and can tell you most ENglish speakers will misunderstand root verbs and what it meens that two words share a common root. They usually think "root verb" meens "what the word really meeans." TO get the real idea across it will take more sentances than its worth. Shia1 00:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Anon, cut-n-pasting a whole article is a copyvio. Giving that much space to one POV would also unbalance the entire article. If you want, put in a link to the online source where you found the article. Zora 06:53, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
No it is certainly necessary to have Sunni ijtihad and Shi'a ijtihad separate. Unfortunately there really isn't much information here (yet), but there is an important distinction. With the Hidden Imam in Greater Occultation (ghayba) the Twelver Shi'a community cannot technically conduct ijtihad. The mujtahid have been said to be the representatives of the Hidden Imam on earth, but this is political doctrine that doesn't fall completely in line with historical Shi'ism and theological dogma. There are many hadith arguing this dissimulation (taqiyya) for the Shi'a community, but Shi'ites through history, such as Ayatollah Khomeini, for instance, make large cases for activist Shi'a government (thus created in Iran in 1979).see: Encyclopedia of Islam articles on id̲j̲tihād and mujtahid and Wilāyat-i faḳīh But it is true that this distinct Twelver section needs work in order to explain this stuff. A.J. 1844, 13 March 2007 Ajaime 23:49, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
How they came up with these set of criteria to accept someone to be scholar?
I don’t see any signature of them in Quran,except knowing Arabic language of Quran.
For me they are secular since has NO bases on Quran. Wael Faiez 14:42, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Is this word relates to people that were fighting in Afghanistan as mujakhadeens? For trivia purposes:), the Russian called them simply as mujakhed or mujakhedi(plural). Now the name is common in Russian in relationship to Muslims outside of the former Soviet Union. Aleksandr Grigoryev ( talk) 01:53, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Mujtahed does not relate to mujhaadedin in meaning, but there is a relationship in its grammatical derivation. This similarity has to do with the Ism Faa3l concept in Arabic grammar. This grammatical rule governs the construction of nouns from their verbal roots. As noted above, jihad (جهاد)(Form III) and ijtihad (اجتهاد) (Form VIII) come from the same three-letter root (ج-ه-د). An Ism Faa3l is the active noun derived from a verb, i.e., "one who does/performs verb X." For verbs forms III and VIII, the Ism Faa3l is created by adding the letter meem (م, equivalent to M in English) to the beginning of the present tense form the the verb, sans any prefixes or suffixes (and by changing the internal voweling a bit, but we don't need to get into that). The present tense form of jihad, without any pre/suf-fixes in jaahed (جاهد). ٍAdding the letter meem to jaahed makes "mujaahed" (مجاهد). One of the two plural forms of mujaahed is mujaahedin (مجاهدين). So this translates as "one who struggles" or "one who performs jihad (be it greater or lesser)" or "freedom-fighter" (if you're Ronald Reagan and trying to drum up American support for jihadis in the 80s). So in the same way, add the letter meem to ijtihad's present form, jtahed (جتهد) and you gut mujtahed (مجتهج), so this literally translates to "one who performs ijtihad" and is therefor used as an official title for people accredited to perform ijtihad.
Long answer short, jihad and ijtihad come from the same root, j-h-d, and therefore the words for the people who perform each of these actions are also formed from the same root. Since these nouns are formed in a similar way for most verbs, you get the word for "one who does jihad" looking like "mujaahed" (or the more commonly seen plural, mujaahedin), and the word for "one who engages in ijtihaad" looking like mujtihad. Ohk321 ( talk) 04:11, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Just wanted to let you all know that for a final project in an Islamic Jurisprudence course at Colgate University we will be contributing some edits to this page. We feel that this page requires some basic reorganization, more citations, and more depth. If you have any questions or concerns please let us know. We would really appreciate if you limit the amount of edits while we are conducting this project. Thank you for your understanding.
Sincerely, The Colgate Crew Epenberthy14 ( talk) 14:07, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
I am a bit perplexed by the comments I recently removed regarding Wahhabism and ijtihad. The text, describing the Saudi government as oppressive, is obviously a breach of WP:NPOV. What I found quite amateur is that the source did claim that Wahhabists view ijtihad as "sinful." If we take a general reading of the available reliable sources, we find that the Wahhabists are part of the latter-day (post Ibn Taymiyyah) Hanbali school, and thus their position toward ijtihad is the same as followers of the other three main Sunni schools of thought. It's easy to conclude that the comments grant undue weight to a rather odd characterization, as Azhar, a prime seat of Sunni learning (and opponent of the Wahhabi movement) also considers attempts to exercise ijtihad in the modern era to be sinful with the exception of a few more modern, progressive professors. Thus, the characterization is quite inappropriate and hence I have removed the comment. MezzoMezzo ( talk) 10:10, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
I am a Muslim and struggling to make sense of what the lead is saying, and I already know what Ijithad means. What about the normal reader?-- Inayity ( talk) 14:23, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
This definition implies four main principles: (1) It is the mujtahid's effort that counts; a non-mujtahid's effort is of no consequence. (2) Effort must be exerted to the ultimate limits of one's ability. (3) Effort should be directed towards the discovery of shar'i rules. (4) The method of discovery should be based in the interpretation of texts, assisted by other sources.
Ijtihad is not exclusively Islamic. Secular legislators, also, make ijtihad by striving to make laws that conform to the public policies of their societies and advance its objectives. These objectives are often enumerated in their constitutions or bills of rights. Similarly, judges make Ijtihad by interpreting the law. In doing so, they are guided by the wording of the law; the legislators' intentions found in reports and speeches; and interpretations given by other judges in similar circumstances. (islamic city)-- Inayity ( talk) 17:14, 16 June 2013 (UTC)
moved here til sourced, WP:OR
-- tickle me 19:39, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
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