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Archive 1 |
I've always heard that Mantell first found the Iguanodon at Cuckfield not Tilgate?-- 69.106.240.106 02:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I think that it was found in Belgium because now a lot of speciamens are being discovered there. It is really hard to tell because they tended to migrate large distances.-- Dinonerd4488 ( talk) 21:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
I added a link to the already existing image of Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins-designed Iguanodon statues at Crystal Palace based on the theories of Sir Richard Owen. To me, no discussion of Iguanodon's is complete without a mention of this early four-legged theory. Side-note: before the dinosaur exhibit opened at Crystal Palace, a fancy diner party was actually heald inside the horizontal iguanodon statue's cramped frame. - Kevingarcia 07:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree, i had a pic I took with an old analog camera which I sharpened teh image and substituted. I remember the drawing of the dinner party, that would be cool. Cas Liber 20:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I have been playing around with images, was wondering whether a gallery or a row of left thumbs was better.. Cas Liber 20:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
OK. Then maybe taking the WWD image out of the taxobox is better to use. Feel free to play with it (I just got something on DYK but have to fix it :) Cas Liber 08:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
PS: Those links are to some really cool images! Maybe asking Raul Martin? Cas Liber 08:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Dinoguy just beat me to this - with an edit clash. I agree citations are needed. There are indeed myths about possible living dinosaurs in the Congo but most seem to related to sauropod-like creatures and are unsubstantiated (also in S. American tropical forests). I can find no reference to Koldeway, saying he thought it was an Iguanodon. Whatever, please supply references. - Ballista 16:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Cetiosaurus brachyurus is a nomen dubium, with the syntype dorsal and caudal vertebrae belonging to an iguanodont and a sauropod respectively (Upchurch and Martin 2003). Also, the taxon Streptospondylus major is based on cervical vertebrae, which are insufficient to establish a new species. 68.4.61.168 ( talk) 05:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian
Add Iguanodon ottingeri Galton & Jensen, 1979 to the Iguanodon species list. Also, each Iguanodon species needs an authorship added:
Iguanodon anglicus Holl, 1829 Iguanodon bernissartensis Boulenger & van Beneden, 1881 Iguanodon dawsoni Lydekker, 1888 Iguanodon fittoni Lydekker, 1888 Iguanodon lakotaensis Weishampel & Bjork, 1989
There is little data about I. dawsoni or I. fittoni, but those species are the most primitive Iguanodon species, not as derived as I. bernissartensis or I. anglicus.
Iguanodon hoggi Owen, 1874 was shown by Norman & Barrett (2002) to be a species of Camptosaurus. For this reason, remove I. hoggi from Iguanodon and transfer it to Camptosaurus. This species represents the second-latest occurrence of Camptosaurus (after C. depressus Gilmore, 1909).
D. B. Norman and P. M. Barrett. 2002. Ornithischian dinosaurs from the Lower Cretaceous (Berriasian) of England. Palaeontology 68:161-189. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.194.116.63 ( talk) 15:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC).
Streptospondylus meyeri is based on an isolated cervical (or anterior dorsal) from Brook Point, Isle of Wight (Owen 1854). However, this species has remained unstudied since Owen (1854) and the taxonomic status of S. meyeri has not yet been determined, but is probably a nomen dubium since one vertebrae is not sufficient grounds for establishing a new species.
Streptospondylus grandis is a nomen nudum because Hulke (1879) does not provide a description.
Owen, Richard (1854). "Descriptive catalogue of the Fossil organic remains of Reptilia and Pisces contained in the Museum of the Royal College of Surgeons of England." London p. 1–184
J. W. Hulke. 1879. Vectisaurus valdensis, a new Wealden dinosaur. Quarterly Journal of the Geological Society of London 35:421-424. 68.4.61.168 ( talk) 05:16, 28 February 2012 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian
( Subpage here).
Support:
Comments:
The first thing that strikes me is that the article is poorly organized. There are paleobiological sections mixed with descriptive sections, for example. A good chunk of it would make a nice subsection on changing perspectives of this dinosaur over time, but it would need to pulled out of a few paragraphs. Bernissart is probably a subsection, because you get things like the many complete skeletons, the fact that more probably remain, the descriptions with their oddities like a prehensile tongue and curved tail (broken by Dollo), etc. Taxonomy for this genus is a real bear, unlike anything the project has tackled with the exception of Palaeosaurus, and the section here just scratches the surface. The paleobiology is fairly well-known, with descriptions of the brain for example. The thumb spike deserves a subheading (did you know an author in a popular book once suggested it was part of a poison delivery system?). Refs, of course, should increase. I think that there are plenty of images; in fact, the text needs to grow to fit them.
To sum up, I think that organization is the big thing; once that's done, it'll be a lot easier to work on. Perhaps something like this (to steal from Stegosaurus):
I know that this is not a very helpful writeup, but this article need a great deal of work. J. Spencer 04:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Shamelessly copied from Re: Iguanodon, and interpreted, since Dinogeorge gave half a list:
Iguanodon Mantell, 1825
Check here for Tracy Ford's version, somewhat more readable, but not as comprensive. Also, an Internet Archive version of a Dinogeorge document that was at an old version of the Dinosauricon can be of service (or in case you don't want to download the thing immediately). J. Spencer 03:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
With Waterhouse Hawkins, he set up nearly two dozen sculptures, including an Iguanodon which, before it was completed, housed a banquet for twenty.[15]
It is my understanding that the banquet was held, not in the sculpture itself, but in the mold of the sculpture. However, I can't think of a really good way to rework this sentence without hopelessly complicating the sentence. Ideas? Firsfron of Ronchester 17:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I've uploaded the picture, but it seems we have many images in certain small sections. I'm unsure where we should put it. Firsfron of Ronchester 04:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
And the plot thickens: Michael Benton, in Greg Paul's The Scientific American Book of Dinosaurs (2000, p. 16), states that the models were hollow, being constructed of a brick and steel framework with a layer of concrete over them, and that this is where the banquet took place: in the Iguanodon before the top was fitted. Perhaps what we've been reading as "mold" was not a mold in the sense of "pour something into it", but "build something around it?" J. Spencer 01:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Seeing as this is the new Dinosaur collaboration, I thought I'd just bring up a quick note about the pronunciation that is given (ɪˈgwænəˌdɒn), as it differs from my own, and the only way I've heard it pronounced (which is ɪˈgwaːnəˌdɒn). Is this a dialectal thing or is it a palaeontology thing? I just checked the online Oxford English Dictionary here & it gives (ɪˈgwɑːnədɒn, -æ-), which makes me think the first is RP, while the -æ- variant is perhaps American (note that my [a:] is the Australian vowel quality). Thylacoleo 06:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
The discovery in 1857 of a hind limb of a young Iguanodon is not currently covered in the article. Might it be worth a mention in the Discovery and history or Posture section? Mgiganteus1 20:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
OMG the article is almost unrecognisable from a few weeks ago! Well done. I bluelinked Samuel Stutchbury but it's really stubby.. Cas Liber 10:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Looking at the redirects, there are several genera not covered in the article that are thought to be synonymous (Heterosaurs, Hikanodon, Proiguanodon, Therosaurus), but darned if I know when the synonymies were made. Some of them probably should go to Mantellisaurus, too (Heterosaurus). J. Spencer 06:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Iguanodon foxii (Huxley, 1869) is actually the referral of Hypsilophodon to Iguanodon by Owen (1874). All said, Hypsilophodon foxii was not originally named Iguanodon foxii.
R. Owen. 1874. Monograph on the fossil Reptilia of the Wealden and Purbeck formations. Supplement no. V. Dinosauria (Iguanodon). [Wealden and Purbeck.]. The Palaeontographical Society, London 1873:1-18.
Albisaurus albinus (Fritsch, 1893) [A. scutifer Fritsch, 1905 is a synonym] is considered a possible marine reptile by George Olshevsky in the Dinosaur Genera List, so update the Albisaurus page.
The corrct authorship for Vectisaurus valdensis is Hulke, 1879, not Lydekker, 1889.
Besides Streptospondylus major, S. recentior, S. grandis, and S. meyeri have been assigned to Iguanodon anglicus before, if you can find citations discussing these synonymies. Place Iguanodon mantelli in the synonymy of I. anglicus. There has already been a redescription of Iguanodon anglicus (Charig & Chapman, 1998), so a new redescription of this dinosaur is unnecessary.
Charig, A.J. and Chapman, S.D. 1998. Iguanodon Mantell, 1825 (Reptilia, Ornithischia): proposed designation of Iguanodon bernissartensis Boulenger in Beneden, 1881 as the type species, and proposed designation of a lectotype. Bulletin of Zoological Nomenclature 55 (2): 99-104.
72.194.116.63 15:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 08.21 12 April 2007
How do folks feel - "bipedality vs quadrupedality" vs. "two-legged or four-leggd posture/gait/stance etc." - any strong feelings one way or the other? I'm sort of leaning towards the latter but if anyone can argue the other way.... Cas Liber 08:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
The other thing I thought just scanning the bottom is the gallery as some reviewers may have a problem with it (with 3 images, it also doesn't fill the space). Maybe a better layout would be the WWD still on the left in the section above and the images in a column down the RHS. I am pre-empting a possible issue on the FAC Cas Liber 09:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
In an article this long, how much redundancy should there be? For example, in a couple of places, the spike on the nose mistake is brought up, and some common wikilinks are repeated. I'd argue that it's useful to reuse wikilinks once a large section or two has passed, and that a partial sentence recap is all right; after all, someone might skip through the sections. Any thoughts? J. Spencer 03:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the next thing to look at might be image placement. I added ArthurWeasley's quadrupedal Iguanodon to the description section, because I thought it was useful to have a good clean life restoration next to that section. I kinda miss the running Iggies, although I'm not sure where that picture would go, and now when I see it, I think: Iguanodon: went extinct from running with sharp pointed objects near chest. J. Spencer 01:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
FYI: Circeus, one of the contributors to the Triceratops FAC, has left a comments page: Talk:Iguanodon/Comments. I think that his suggestions are pretty reasonable and simple; most of them have to do with wording and clarification. J. Spencer 23:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I got the last couple of places Circeus wanted citations. Think it's time to put the article through a final polish and send it off to FAC? J. Spencer 16:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Norman (2004, p. 415) accepted the validity of Iguanodon anglicus because, despite being considered a nomen dubium by a few scientists, there are hundreds of bones from the type locality of I. anglicus. Therefore, I. anglicus should be removed from the section Nomina dubia and added under the section Species Currently Accepted As Valid. Will there be a review of the genus Iguanodon in the future?
Norman, David B., 2004. Basal Iguanodontia. In Weishampel, D.B., Osmólska, H., and Dodson, P. (eds.): The Dinosauria, 2nd, Berkeley: University of California Press, pp. 413-437. 72.194.116.63 01:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 17.30 8 March 2007
What a super article: fantastic detail and illustrations. I've made a few Commonwealth English edits, as discussed above (I left the -ize endings as they're used in CEng as well as -ise ones). Cheers Jasper33 19:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
How much did they live in average? Are there any estimates? Cmapm 01:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Will there be a systematic re-evaluation of Iguanodon? 75.0.184.32 22:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 15.38 August 24, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.133.131 ( talk) 16:01, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me what's in the paper, besides the stuff in the abstract? The preprint was 89 pages long, so I'm imagining something's not there. J. Spencer ( talk) 22:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
the iguanodon came from the family called Iguanodontidae.
Its food preferences is a harbivore-a plant eating animal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.80.156.44 ( talk) 15:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
There is written in the article that "...several other poorly known genera and species are included with Iguanodon without being separate species...".
-- Jan.Kamenicek ( talk) 21:14, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
The description reads: Hand of Iguanodon shown in the Natural History Museum.. But which natural museum are we talking about here?-- Narayan ( talk) 17:46, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Iguanodon hollingtoniensis has been demonstrated by Norman (2010) to be a synonym of Hypselospinus fittoni.
Streptospondylus grandis was actually named by Hulke (1879) but without a diagnosis or description and is thus a nomen nudum, if you can access Hulke's description of Vectisaurus on Google Books ( http://books.google.com/books?id=DN0GAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA423&dq=streptospondylus+grandis&hl=en&ei=ZFd8TIGGFIP78AaV8qnCBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#). Streptospondylus recentior is a nomen nudum for Streptopondylus major ( http://books.google.com/books?id=O9k4AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA260&dq=streptospondylus+recentior&hl=en&ei=yVd8TLWSDcP-8AaN4OmOBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=streptospondylus%20recentior&f=false).
Hulke, J. W. (1879) - Vectisaurus valdensis, a new Wealden dinosaur. Geological Society of London, Quarterly Journal, 35 : 421-424.
Norman, David B. (2010) "A taxonomy of iguanodontians (Dinosauria: Ornithopoda) from the lower Wealden Group (Cretaceous: Valanginian) of southern England" Zootaxa 2489: 47–66. 68.4.61.237 ( talk) 01:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
I've tried to replace drawings made by an amateur artist by reconstructions made by professionals under the supervision of paleontologists and somebody keeps reverting my changes. Drawings are made by a certain Nobutamura that Dinoguy2 claims is a professional. He (or she) is not. He has absolutely no credentials outside apparently a few people on wikipedia and has absolutely no recognition in paleontological circles (I haven't seen any of his drawings published in professional paleo sites such as palaeos.com, Ocean of Kansas, dinodata and so on and none of his drawings appear in any serious paleo books written by professionals). Why would anyone believe that his reconstructions are more accurate than those made by professional artists who are recognized by scientists? His depictions look so much different from those made by professional artists that I wonder how they ended up on wikipedia without check. Compares his Gigantoraptor with Julius Csotonyi's ( http://csotonyi.com/Gigantoraptor_erlianensis.html)or his Velociraptor with Todd Marshall's ( http://www.livescience.com/bestimg/index.php?url=avian_velociraptor_00.jpg&cat=avianancestors). Csotonyi and Marshall are widely recognized professional artists, NobuTamura is not so why would anyone believe that his production is scientifically accurate? This looks like original research to me. I am picking on this guy as he is infamous by the number of images he put on wiki but he is unfortunately not alone. Dinogal85 ( talk) 07:32, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
I admit not to be Tamura's biggest fan, but look, who are you to judge if an image is accurate or not? Are you professional paleontologists? Museum mounts may be outdated but they were made by professionals commissioned by real paleontologists. I would rather trust something which is made for a museum that has been checked by a bunch of specialists than something which was made up by an amateur and checked by another bunch of amateurs. Does anybody thinks the same around here? Dinogal85 ( talk) 14:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
I give up. Sounds like you guys know what you are doing. My apologies for the trouble but it looked wrong (at least to me) to give such credit to an obscure and anonymous artist while there are others that are well known and widely recognized around. I think I understand your point now and I also understand copyright problems but did you try to get permissions from say Todd Marshall (my favorite artist) to use his work on wikipedia? Good luck. Dinogal85 ( talk) 04:47, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Hey, I wasn't insulting anyone, I was apologizing and merely asking if someone has already contacted Marshall or any other artist. You could just have replied "yes, we did, but he declined to give us permission" or "no, we haven't, that's a good idea, why don't you do that?". Now concerning Tamura aka ArthurWeasley, I repeat I was just picking on him because he was one of the most visible here (and he has apparently left wikipedia so is unlikely to see this...), the reason is simple, his drawings are very crude (lack of details, no interesting pose, etc...) , just compare with the amount of details that Marshall, Rey or any of the great artists are putting in their paintings, but this is just my personal opinion, so if you guys like what he is doing, it's fine by me. I won't be bothering you anymore. Dinogal85 ( talk) 01:32, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi Folks, Looks like the lady above will get what she was asking for after all but not for the same reasons. I've requested deletion of a few of my illustrations from wiki commons including Iguanodon after going through the recent debate launched by Greg Paul on the DML concerning the use of his skeletal reconstructions for derivative works. Although I do not fully agree with him, I respect and understand his views and have decided to remove from wikipedia all of my illustrations that directly resulted from the study of his skeletal drawings. There is only a few of them so no worries. A creative common license unfortunately does not prevent commercial use of a work by a third party, and this I'd like to avoid so removing the images from the web is the best course of action. Cheers. NobuTamura ( talk) 20:29, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Also, take a look at M Wesley's recent post on the DML, he hits the nail right on the head, I quote his point three:
"3. How would he be able to know that a life restoration, posed and restored in an artists own style and in his or her own interpretation of lost musculature, used his skeletals and not another person's--would it be a process of Mr. Paul taking a tape measure to every piece of dinosaur art he saw? Invariably if such a draconian and absurd president were put in place then many paleoartists would still use his skeletal reconstructions, only they would skew the proportions to an extent that they clearly were not based on his work (this isn't as egregious as it sounds as proportional dimorphism is not uncommon throughout the animal kingdom between the sexes and from animals of the same species from one region to another), yet how skewed would it have to be to be outside of Mr. Paul's propriety--two inches more on the scapula and one inch less on the pubis? The irony here is that Mr. Paul in the end would make the general reconstruction and restorations of non-avian dinosaurs by the general population of artists more inaccurate instead of less." FunkMonk ( talk) 03:55, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I note the recent back and forth on East/West Sussex in the article. Part of the problem is that Cuckfield was in East Sussex but is now in West Sussex (since 1974). -- Erp ( talk) 04:45, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Iguanodon orientalis Rozhdestvensky, 1952 is actually a junior synonym of Iguanodon bernissartensis (Norman, 1995, 1996, 1998). Since Altirhinus was intended to be a new genus for specimens mis-identified as I. orientalis in 1981, I. orientalis is not a synonym of Altirhinus. The presence of Iguanodon bernissartensis in Mongolia shows that this dinosaur was widespread in the Northern Hemisphere. For this reason, Iguanodon is one of many pan-continental dinosaurs (like Allosaurus, Kentrosaurus, Apatosaurus, Torvosaurus, Ceratosaurus, and Elaphrosaurus).
D. B. Norman. 1995. Ornithopods from Mongolia: new observation. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 15(3, suppl.):46A.
D. B. Norman. 1996. On Mongolian ornithopods (Dinosauria: Ornithischia). 1. Iguanodon orientalis Rozhdestvensky 1952. Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society 116:303-315.
D. B. Norman. 1998. On Asian ornithopods (Dinosauria: Ornithischia). 3. A new species of iguanodontid dinosaur. Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society 122:291-348.
Reinsterted section overwritten by the IP 68.4.61.168 FunkMonk ( talk) 07:26, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
-- the 'iguanadon' is related to the 'brontosauraus'? -- article states it was the second dinosaur named, i believe the brontosauraus was one of the earliest dinosaurs discovered. also, there is some continuity confusion in this article-- if you look at the pictures in a series, there is the depiction of 'iguanadon' relative to the size of a human, and then later picture which depicts it as a large iguana or over-sized reptile of some kind?? i suppose this should be corrected-- perhaps this should be merged with bronto article/project?? --99 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rasko99 ( talk • contribs) 13:54, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
The famous Maidstone iguanodont is considered a distinct unnamed taxon by Carpenter and Ishida (2010) and assigned to cf. Mantellisaurus by McDonald (2012). Iguanodon seelyi still stands a junior synonym of I. bernissartensis, as pointed out by McDonald (2012) and Norman (2012), who note differences between the ilia of I. seeleyi and Dollodon bampingi. Additionally, Sphenospondylus gracilis is considered a nomen dubium by Norman (1986) and McDonald (2012), while Streptospondylus major is almost certainly nomen dubium because the syntype cervicals are not diagnostic for iguanodont species.
Norman, D. B., 1986, On the anatomy of Iguanodon atherfieldensis (Ornithischia: Ornithopoda): Bulletin del l’Instut Royal Des Sciences Naturelles de Belgique, Sciences de la Terre, v. 56, p. 281-372.
Norman, D. B., 2012, Iguanodontian taxa (Dinosauria: Ornithischia) from the Lower Cretaceous of England and Belgium: In: Bernissart Dinosaurs and Early Cretaceous Terrestrial Ecosystems, edited by Godefroit, P., Indiana University Press, Part 2, The Bernissart Iguanodons and thier kin, p. 175-212.
McDonald, Andrew T. (2011). "The status of Dollodon and other basal iguanodonts (Dinosauria: Ornithischia) from the upper Wealden beds (Lower Cretaceous) of Europe". Cretaceous Research advance online publication. doi:10.1016/j.cretres.2011.03.002. 68.4.28.33 ( talk) 22:23, 5 October 2012 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
Isn't Mantellisaurus an Iguanodontid? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.176.114.76 ( talk) 00:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
Paul (2012) erects the new genus and species Mantellodon carpenteri for the Maidstone iguanodont based on differences from the true Mantellisaurus. Would it be appropriate to move the discussion of the Maidstone iguanodont under the section "Gideon Mantell, Richard Owen, and the discovery of dinosaurs" to the Mantellodon article, since Mantellodon is a bit older than true Mantellisaurus and Gideon Mantell himself was unaware that Mantellodon came from much younger rocks than Therosaurus anglicus?
Gregory S. Paul (2012). "Notes on the rising diversity of iguanodont taxa, and iguanodonts named after Darwin, Huxley and evolutionary science". Actas de V Jornadas Internacionales sobre Paleontologia de Dinosaurios y su Entorno, Salas de los Infantes, Burgos. Colectivo Arqeologico-Paleontologico de Salas de los Infantes (Burgos). pp. 121–131. 68.4.28.33 ( talk) 19:39, 12 September 2013 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
"Iguanodon (/ɨˈɡwɑːnədɒn/ i-GWAH-nə-don; meaning "iguana-tooth") is a genus of ornithopod dinosaur that existed roughly halfway between the first of the swift bipedal hypsilophodontids of the mid-Jurassic and the duck-billed dinosaurs of the late Cretaceous."- Being a hadrosauriform wouldn't it be much closer t the hadrosaur end of the spectrum? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.176.114.76 ( talk) 17:37, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
The description says "with toothless beaks probably covered with keratin, and teeth like those of iguanas". Please make it clearer as to how something can have a toothless beak and teeth at the same time. Thanks. Fig ( talk) 21:52, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
There is written in the article, that "In older sources, Iguanodontidae was shown as a distinct family." Does it mean, that in newer sources it is not considered a family? Infobox in this article also reads that Iguanodon belongs to the family Iguanodontidae, and in the article on Ornithopods we can read that Iguanodontidae is a family belonging to that infraorder, too. Jan.Kamenicek ( talk) 12:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
The issue still has not been solved. The infobox says that iguanodontidae is a family, while the article says that it was considered a family in older sources. I think that featured article should not contain such ambiguous information. Jan.Kamenicek ( talk) 21:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Norman, D. B. (2015), On the history, osteology, and systematic position of the Wealden (Hastings group) dinosaur Hypselospinus fittoni (Iguanodontia: Styracosterna). Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society, 173: 92–189. doi: 10.1111/zoj.12193 72.194.115.252 ( talk) 23:25, 31 May 2015 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
Dinoguy2 has just mentioned the new paper about the, until now unrecognised, 1824 publication. It is, of course, not our task to point this out in the text but Simpson is mistaken in his conclusion that the name Iguanadon would be a nomen nudum. He states that a "proper scientific description" is needed. While this is true in a sense, he apparently misleads himself into thinking this means that descriptions of low quality, that are not "good enough", do not meet this criterion. This is incorrect: any minimal real description suffices. The ICZN does not use the qualification "proper". Such a description is present in the newspaper article. Furthermore, the newspaper article can be seen, if the reference to the on the Geology of Sussex is deemed bibliographical enough, as containing an indication of an earlier description of the teeth by Mantell and such an indication alone is sufficient to meet the description criterion and also sufficiently denotes a syntype series. So, Iguanadon seems in principle to be the valid name. It could be formally declared a nomen oblitum — but Simpson did not. On the DML Ben Creisler suggested that the name would be invalid because it was not published in a technical publication but no such condition is part of the ICZN.-- MWAK ( talk) 09:46, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
The 2 March 2007 version of this article that passed the featured article review process stated: "Mantell did not describe his findings until 1825, when he presented a paper on the remains to the Royal Society of London". The 9 May 2016 version of this article stated (until I corrected it here) that "Mantell formally published his findings on 10 February 1825, when he presented a paper on the remains to the Royal Geological Society of London.". (Technically, Mantell wrote to Davies Gilbert and Gilbert read the paper out to the Society.) How did this error creep into the article? In an edit on 28 February 2009, an existing link to 'Royal Society' was changed to read "Royal Geological Society" with a piped link to Royal Society. A bit earlier in the same section, a similar link in the '1822' sentence (about the fossils being presented to the Geological Society) is incorrectly piped to the Royal Society. I corrected this here. FWIW, the incorrectly piped link was de-linked here on 25 October 2013 (the edit summary claimed to be removing 'duplicate links' but clearly the actual edit being done wasn't examined closely enough as otherwise the inconsistency might have been picked up then). What appears to have happened is that User:MWAK, in introducing the 1822 bit about the Geological Society of London (which has never been known as 'Royal' though it does have a royal charter), created an incorrectly piped link (the piped text was right, the link was wrong) and used the same piped link for the 1825 sentence (where the link was correct but the piped text was wrong). And no-one noticed that until now, over seven years later. That was a right mess (relatively minor but still annoying - this error has propagated outwards to many other websites).
Pinging MWAK and IJReid in case I am wrong and further edits are needed here. Carcharoth ( talk) 17:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
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This article will be on the main page on April 23rd. I recommend giving the article a look over before it runs. -- Harizotoh9 ( talk) 03:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The taxobox lists Hikanodon and Iguanosaurus as possible synonyms, and then the species section ends with them being referred to as objective junior synonyms. This already contradicts itself, with the presence of question marks followed by the synonymy being called objective. However, I'm more concerned about rather the names are even at all. I can't find any reference of Iguanosaurus being validly published in 1828, only of the nomen nudum case from 1824, and the DOI leads to a page which indicates that the reference is about amphibians. Could be an artefact of it being older than Dinosauria as a name, but it's not helping the case. Hikanodon was definitely actually used as a name in the indicated publication, twice, but I've been told what's there doesn't constitute a proper coining, and I'm inclined to agree. It's treated as valid in the Dinosaur Genera List, but this DML message [11] doesn't give confidence that's done with any more certainty. Could anybody present any evidence either of these are valid names, and if Iguanosaurus Ritgen 1828 even exists? Lusotitan ( Talk | Contributions) 01:38, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I've always heard that Mantell first found the Iguanodon at Cuckfield not Tilgate?-- 69.106.240.106 02:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I think that it was found in Belgium because now a lot of speciamens are being discovered there. It is really hard to tell because they tended to migrate large distances.-- Dinonerd4488 ( talk) 21:34, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
I added a link to the already existing image of Benjamin Waterhouse Hawkins-designed Iguanodon statues at Crystal Palace based on the theories of Sir Richard Owen. To me, no discussion of Iguanodon's is complete without a mention of this early four-legged theory. Side-note: before the dinosaur exhibit opened at Crystal Palace, a fancy diner party was actually heald inside the horizontal iguanodon statue's cramped frame. - Kevingarcia 07:47, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
I totally agree, i had a pic I took with an old analog camera which I sharpened teh image and substituted. I remember the drawing of the dinner party, that would be cool. Cas Liber 20:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I have been playing around with images, was wondering whether a gallery or a row of left thumbs was better.. Cas Liber 20:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
OK. Then maybe taking the WWD image out of the taxobox is better to use. Feel free to play with it (I just got something on DYK but have to fix it :) Cas Liber 08:34, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
PS: Those links are to some really cool images! Maybe asking Raul Martin? Cas Liber 08:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Dinoguy just beat me to this - with an edit clash. I agree citations are needed. There are indeed myths about possible living dinosaurs in the Congo but most seem to related to sauropod-like creatures and are unsubstantiated (also in S. American tropical forests). I can find no reference to Koldeway, saying he thought it was an Iguanodon. Whatever, please supply references. - Ballista 16:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Cetiosaurus brachyurus is a nomen dubium, with the syntype dorsal and caudal vertebrae belonging to an iguanodont and a sauropod respectively (Upchurch and Martin 2003). Also, the taxon Streptospondylus major is based on cervical vertebrae, which are insufficient to establish a new species. 68.4.61.168 ( talk) 05:05, 28 February 2012 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian
Add Iguanodon ottingeri Galton & Jensen, 1979 to the Iguanodon species list. Also, each Iguanodon species needs an authorship added:
Iguanodon anglicus Holl, 1829 Iguanodon bernissartensis Boulenger & van Beneden, 1881 Iguanodon dawsoni Lydekker, 1888 Iguanodon fittoni Lydekker, 1888 Iguanodon lakotaensis Weishampel & Bjork, 1989
There is little data about I. dawsoni or I. fittoni, but those species are the most primitive Iguanodon species, not as derived as I. bernissartensis or I. anglicus.
Iguanodon hoggi Owen, 1874 was shown by Norman & Barrett (2002) to be a species of Camptosaurus. For this reason, remove I. hoggi from Iguanodon and transfer it to Camptosaurus. This species represents the second-latest occurrence of Camptosaurus (after C. depressus Gilmore, 1909).
D. B. Norman and P. M. Barrett. 2002. Ornithischian dinosaurs from the Lower Cretaceous (Berriasian) of England. Palaeontology 68:161-189. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.194.116.63 ( talk) 15:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC).
Streptospondylus meyeri is based on an isolated cervical (or anterior dorsal) from Brook Point, Isle of Wight (Owen 1854). However, this species has remained unstudied since Owen (1854) and the taxonomic status of S. meyeri has not yet been determined, but is probably a nomen dubium since one vertebrae is not sufficient grounds for establishing a new species.
Streptospondylus grandis is a nomen nudum because Hulke (1879) does not provide a description.
Owen, Richard (1854). "Descriptive catalogue of the Fossil organic remains of Reptilia and Pisces contained in the Museum of the Royal College of Surgeons of England." London p. 1–184
J. W. Hulke. 1879. Vectisaurus valdensis, a new Wealden dinosaur. Quarterly Journal of the Geological Society of London 35:421-424. 68.4.61.168 ( talk) 05:16, 28 February 2012 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian
( Subpage here).
Support:
Comments:
The first thing that strikes me is that the article is poorly organized. There are paleobiological sections mixed with descriptive sections, for example. A good chunk of it would make a nice subsection on changing perspectives of this dinosaur over time, but it would need to pulled out of a few paragraphs. Bernissart is probably a subsection, because you get things like the many complete skeletons, the fact that more probably remain, the descriptions with their oddities like a prehensile tongue and curved tail (broken by Dollo), etc. Taxonomy for this genus is a real bear, unlike anything the project has tackled with the exception of Palaeosaurus, and the section here just scratches the surface. The paleobiology is fairly well-known, with descriptions of the brain for example. The thumb spike deserves a subheading (did you know an author in a popular book once suggested it was part of a poison delivery system?). Refs, of course, should increase. I think that there are plenty of images; in fact, the text needs to grow to fit them.
To sum up, I think that organization is the big thing; once that's done, it'll be a lot easier to work on. Perhaps something like this (to steal from Stegosaurus):
I know that this is not a very helpful writeup, but this article need a great deal of work. J. Spencer 04:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Shamelessly copied from Re: Iguanodon, and interpreted, since Dinogeorge gave half a list:
Iguanodon Mantell, 1825
Check here for Tracy Ford's version, somewhat more readable, but not as comprensive. Also, an Internet Archive version of a Dinogeorge document that was at an old version of the Dinosauricon can be of service (or in case you don't want to download the thing immediately). J. Spencer 03:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
With Waterhouse Hawkins, he set up nearly two dozen sculptures, including an Iguanodon which, before it was completed, housed a banquet for twenty.[15]
It is my understanding that the banquet was held, not in the sculpture itself, but in the mold of the sculpture. However, I can't think of a really good way to rework this sentence without hopelessly complicating the sentence. Ideas? Firsfron of Ronchester 17:53, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
I've uploaded the picture, but it seems we have many images in certain small sections. I'm unsure where we should put it. Firsfron of Ronchester 04:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
And the plot thickens: Michael Benton, in Greg Paul's The Scientific American Book of Dinosaurs (2000, p. 16), states that the models were hollow, being constructed of a brick and steel framework with a layer of concrete over them, and that this is where the banquet took place: in the Iguanodon before the top was fitted. Perhaps what we've been reading as "mold" was not a mold in the sense of "pour something into it", but "build something around it?" J. Spencer 01:26, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Seeing as this is the new Dinosaur collaboration, I thought I'd just bring up a quick note about the pronunciation that is given (ɪˈgwænəˌdɒn), as it differs from my own, and the only way I've heard it pronounced (which is ɪˈgwaːnəˌdɒn). Is this a dialectal thing or is it a palaeontology thing? I just checked the online Oxford English Dictionary here & it gives (ɪˈgwɑːnədɒn, -æ-), which makes me think the first is RP, while the -æ- variant is perhaps American (note that my [a:] is the Australian vowel quality). Thylacoleo 06:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
The discovery in 1857 of a hind limb of a young Iguanodon is not currently covered in the article. Might it be worth a mention in the Discovery and history or Posture section? Mgiganteus1 20:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
OMG the article is almost unrecognisable from a few weeks ago! Well done. I bluelinked Samuel Stutchbury but it's really stubby.. Cas Liber 10:23, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Looking at the redirects, there are several genera not covered in the article that are thought to be synonymous (Heterosaurs, Hikanodon, Proiguanodon, Therosaurus), but darned if I know when the synonymies were made. Some of them probably should go to Mantellisaurus, too (Heterosaurus). J. Spencer 06:26, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Iguanodon foxii (Huxley, 1869) is actually the referral of Hypsilophodon to Iguanodon by Owen (1874). All said, Hypsilophodon foxii was not originally named Iguanodon foxii.
R. Owen. 1874. Monograph on the fossil Reptilia of the Wealden and Purbeck formations. Supplement no. V. Dinosauria (Iguanodon). [Wealden and Purbeck.]. The Palaeontographical Society, London 1873:1-18.
Albisaurus albinus (Fritsch, 1893) [A. scutifer Fritsch, 1905 is a synonym] is considered a possible marine reptile by George Olshevsky in the Dinosaur Genera List, so update the Albisaurus page.
The corrct authorship for Vectisaurus valdensis is Hulke, 1879, not Lydekker, 1889.
Besides Streptospondylus major, S. recentior, S. grandis, and S. meyeri have been assigned to Iguanodon anglicus before, if you can find citations discussing these synonymies. Place Iguanodon mantelli in the synonymy of I. anglicus. There has already been a redescription of Iguanodon anglicus (Charig & Chapman, 1998), so a new redescription of this dinosaur is unnecessary.
Charig, A.J. and Chapman, S.D. 1998. Iguanodon Mantell, 1825 (Reptilia, Ornithischia): proposed designation of Iguanodon bernissartensis Boulenger in Beneden, 1881 as the type species, and proposed designation of a lectotype. Bulletin of Zoological Nomenclature 55 (2): 99-104.
72.194.116.63 15:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 08.21 12 April 2007
How do folks feel - "bipedality vs quadrupedality" vs. "two-legged or four-leggd posture/gait/stance etc." - any strong feelings one way or the other? I'm sort of leaning towards the latter but if anyone can argue the other way.... Cas Liber 08:00, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
The other thing I thought just scanning the bottom is the gallery as some reviewers may have a problem with it (with 3 images, it also doesn't fill the space). Maybe a better layout would be the WWD still on the left in the section above and the images in a column down the RHS. I am pre-empting a possible issue on the FAC Cas Liber 09:41, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
In an article this long, how much redundancy should there be? For example, in a couple of places, the spike on the nose mistake is brought up, and some common wikilinks are repeated. I'd argue that it's useful to reuse wikilinks once a large section or two has passed, and that a partial sentence recap is all right; after all, someone might skip through the sections. Any thoughts? J. Spencer 03:29, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the next thing to look at might be image placement. I added ArthurWeasley's quadrupedal Iguanodon to the description section, because I thought it was useful to have a good clean life restoration next to that section. I kinda miss the running Iggies, although I'm not sure where that picture would go, and now when I see it, I think: Iguanodon: went extinct from running with sharp pointed objects near chest. J. Spencer 01:01, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
FYI: Circeus, one of the contributors to the Triceratops FAC, has left a comments page: Talk:Iguanodon/Comments. I think that his suggestions are pretty reasonable and simple; most of them have to do with wording and clarification. J. Spencer 23:19, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I got the last couple of places Circeus wanted citations. Think it's time to put the article through a final polish and send it off to FAC? J. Spencer 16:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Norman (2004, p. 415) accepted the validity of Iguanodon anglicus because, despite being considered a nomen dubium by a few scientists, there are hundreds of bones from the type locality of I. anglicus. Therefore, I. anglicus should be removed from the section Nomina dubia and added under the section Species Currently Accepted As Valid. Will there be a review of the genus Iguanodon in the future?
Norman, David B., 2004. Basal Iguanodontia. In Weishampel, D.B., Osmólska, H., and Dodson, P. (eds.): The Dinosauria, 2nd, Berkeley: University of California Press, pp. 413-437. 72.194.116.63 01:35, 9 March 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 17.30 8 March 2007
What a super article: fantastic detail and illustrations. I've made a few Commonwealth English edits, as discussed above (I left the -ize endings as they're used in CEng as well as -ise ones). Cheers Jasper33 19:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
How much did they live in average? Are there any estimates? Cmapm 01:45, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Will there be a systematic re-evaluation of Iguanodon? 75.0.184.32 22:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC) Vahe Demirjian 15.38 August 24, 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.2.133.131 ( talk) 16:01, August 24, 2007 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me what's in the paper, besides the stuff in the abstract? The preprint was 89 pages long, so I'm imagining something's not there. J. Spencer ( talk) 22:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
the iguanodon came from the family called Iguanodontidae.
Its food preferences is a harbivore-a plant eating animal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.80.156.44 ( talk) 15:15, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
There is written in the article that "...several other poorly known genera and species are included with Iguanodon without being separate species...".
-- Jan.Kamenicek ( talk) 21:14, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
The description reads: Hand of Iguanodon shown in the Natural History Museum.. But which natural museum are we talking about here?-- Narayan ( talk) 17:46, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Iguanodon hollingtoniensis has been demonstrated by Norman (2010) to be a synonym of Hypselospinus fittoni.
Streptospondylus grandis was actually named by Hulke (1879) but without a diagnosis or description and is thus a nomen nudum, if you can access Hulke's description of Vectisaurus on Google Books ( http://books.google.com/books?id=DN0GAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA423&dq=streptospondylus+grandis&hl=en&ei=ZFd8TIGGFIP78AaV8qnCBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#). Streptospondylus recentior is a nomen nudum for Streptopondylus major ( http://books.google.com/books?id=O9k4AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA260&dq=streptospondylus+recentior&hl=en&ei=yVd8TLWSDcP-8AaN4OmOBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=streptospondylus%20recentior&f=false).
Hulke, J. W. (1879) - Vectisaurus valdensis, a new Wealden dinosaur. Geological Society of London, Quarterly Journal, 35 : 421-424.
Norman, David B. (2010) "A taxonomy of iguanodontians (Dinosauria: Ornithopoda) from the lower Wealden Group (Cretaceous: Valanginian) of southern England" Zootaxa 2489: 47–66. 68.4.61.237 ( talk) 01:17, 31 August 2010 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
I've tried to replace drawings made by an amateur artist by reconstructions made by professionals under the supervision of paleontologists and somebody keeps reverting my changes. Drawings are made by a certain Nobutamura that Dinoguy2 claims is a professional. He (or she) is not. He has absolutely no credentials outside apparently a few people on wikipedia and has absolutely no recognition in paleontological circles (I haven't seen any of his drawings published in professional paleo sites such as palaeos.com, Ocean of Kansas, dinodata and so on and none of his drawings appear in any serious paleo books written by professionals). Why would anyone believe that his reconstructions are more accurate than those made by professional artists who are recognized by scientists? His depictions look so much different from those made by professional artists that I wonder how they ended up on wikipedia without check. Compares his Gigantoraptor with Julius Csotonyi's ( http://csotonyi.com/Gigantoraptor_erlianensis.html)or his Velociraptor with Todd Marshall's ( http://www.livescience.com/bestimg/index.php?url=avian_velociraptor_00.jpg&cat=avianancestors). Csotonyi and Marshall are widely recognized professional artists, NobuTamura is not so why would anyone believe that his production is scientifically accurate? This looks like original research to me. I am picking on this guy as he is infamous by the number of images he put on wiki but he is unfortunately not alone. Dinogal85 ( talk) 07:32, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
I admit not to be Tamura's biggest fan, but look, who are you to judge if an image is accurate or not? Are you professional paleontologists? Museum mounts may be outdated but they were made by professionals commissioned by real paleontologists. I would rather trust something which is made for a museum that has been checked by a bunch of specialists than something which was made up by an amateur and checked by another bunch of amateurs. Does anybody thinks the same around here? Dinogal85 ( talk) 14:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
I give up. Sounds like you guys know what you are doing. My apologies for the trouble but it looked wrong (at least to me) to give such credit to an obscure and anonymous artist while there are others that are well known and widely recognized around. I think I understand your point now and I also understand copyright problems but did you try to get permissions from say Todd Marshall (my favorite artist) to use his work on wikipedia? Good luck. Dinogal85 ( talk) 04:47, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Hey, I wasn't insulting anyone, I was apologizing and merely asking if someone has already contacted Marshall or any other artist. You could just have replied "yes, we did, but he declined to give us permission" or "no, we haven't, that's a good idea, why don't you do that?". Now concerning Tamura aka ArthurWeasley, I repeat I was just picking on him because he was one of the most visible here (and he has apparently left wikipedia so is unlikely to see this...), the reason is simple, his drawings are very crude (lack of details, no interesting pose, etc...) , just compare with the amount of details that Marshall, Rey or any of the great artists are putting in their paintings, but this is just my personal opinion, so if you guys like what he is doing, it's fine by me. I won't be bothering you anymore. Dinogal85 ( talk) 01:32, 6 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi Folks, Looks like the lady above will get what she was asking for after all but not for the same reasons. I've requested deletion of a few of my illustrations from wiki commons including Iguanodon after going through the recent debate launched by Greg Paul on the DML concerning the use of his skeletal reconstructions for derivative works. Although I do not fully agree with him, I respect and understand his views and have decided to remove from wikipedia all of my illustrations that directly resulted from the study of his skeletal drawings. There is only a few of them so no worries. A creative common license unfortunately does not prevent commercial use of a work by a third party, and this I'd like to avoid so removing the images from the web is the best course of action. Cheers. NobuTamura ( talk) 20:29, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
Also, take a look at M Wesley's recent post on the DML, he hits the nail right on the head, I quote his point three:
"3. How would he be able to know that a life restoration, posed and restored in an artists own style and in his or her own interpretation of lost musculature, used his skeletals and not another person's--would it be a process of Mr. Paul taking a tape measure to every piece of dinosaur art he saw? Invariably if such a draconian and absurd president were put in place then many paleoartists would still use his skeletal reconstructions, only they would skew the proportions to an extent that they clearly were not based on his work (this isn't as egregious as it sounds as proportional dimorphism is not uncommon throughout the animal kingdom between the sexes and from animals of the same species from one region to another), yet how skewed would it have to be to be outside of Mr. Paul's propriety--two inches more on the scapula and one inch less on the pubis? The irony here is that Mr. Paul in the end would make the general reconstruction and restorations of non-avian dinosaurs by the general population of artists more inaccurate instead of less." FunkMonk ( talk) 03:55, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I note the recent back and forth on East/West Sussex in the article. Part of the problem is that Cuckfield was in East Sussex but is now in West Sussex (since 1974). -- Erp ( talk) 04:45, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
Iguanodon orientalis Rozhdestvensky, 1952 is actually a junior synonym of Iguanodon bernissartensis (Norman, 1995, 1996, 1998). Since Altirhinus was intended to be a new genus for specimens mis-identified as I. orientalis in 1981, I. orientalis is not a synonym of Altirhinus. The presence of Iguanodon bernissartensis in Mongolia shows that this dinosaur was widespread in the Northern Hemisphere. For this reason, Iguanodon is one of many pan-continental dinosaurs (like Allosaurus, Kentrosaurus, Apatosaurus, Torvosaurus, Ceratosaurus, and Elaphrosaurus).
D. B. Norman. 1995. Ornithopods from Mongolia: new observation. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 15(3, suppl.):46A.
D. B. Norman. 1996. On Mongolian ornithopods (Dinosauria: Ornithischia). 1. Iguanodon orientalis Rozhdestvensky 1952. Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society 116:303-315.
D. B. Norman. 1998. On Asian ornithopods (Dinosauria: Ornithischia). 3. A new species of iguanodontid dinosaur. Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society 122:291-348.
Reinsterted section overwritten by the IP 68.4.61.168 FunkMonk ( talk) 07:26, 2 March 2012 (UTC)
-- the 'iguanadon' is related to the 'brontosauraus'? -- article states it was the second dinosaur named, i believe the brontosauraus was one of the earliest dinosaurs discovered. also, there is some continuity confusion in this article-- if you look at the pictures in a series, there is the depiction of 'iguanadon' relative to the size of a human, and then later picture which depicts it as a large iguana or over-sized reptile of some kind?? i suppose this should be corrected-- perhaps this should be merged with bronto article/project?? --99 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rasko99 ( talk • contribs) 13:54, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
The famous Maidstone iguanodont is considered a distinct unnamed taxon by Carpenter and Ishida (2010) and assigned to cf. Mantellisaurus by McDonald (2012). Iguanodon seelyi still stands a junior synonym of I. bernissartensis, as pointed out by McDonald (2012) and Norman (2012), who note differences between the ilia of I. seeleyi and Dollodon bampingi. Additionally, Sphenospondylus gracilis is considered a nomen dubium by Norman (1986) and McDonald (2012), while Streptospondylus major is almost certainly nomen dubium because the syntype cervicals are not diagnostic for iguanodont species.
Norman, D. B., 1986, On the anatomy of Iguanodon atherfieldensis (Ornithischia: Ornithopoda): Bulletin del l’Instut Royal Des Sciences Naturelles de Belgique, Sciences de la Terre, v. 56, p. 281-372.
Norman, D. B., 2012, Iguanodontian taxa (Dinosauria: Ornithischia) from the Lower Cretaceous of England and Belgium: In: Bernissart Dinosaurs and Early Cretaceous Terrestrial Ecosystems, edited by Godefroit, P., Indiana University Press, Part 2, The Bernissart Iguanodons and thier kin, p. 175-212.
McDonald, Andrew T. (2011). "The status of Dollodon and other basal iguanodonts (Dinosauria: Ornithischia) from the upper Wealden beds (Lower Cretaceous) of Europe". Cretaceous Research advance online publication. doi:10.1016/j.cretres.2011.03.002. 68.4.28.33 ( talk) 22:23, 5 October 2012 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
Isn't Mantellisaurus an Iguanodontid? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.176.114.76 ( talk) 00:04, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
Paul (2012) erects the new genus and species Mantellodon carpenteri for the Maidstone iguanodont based on differences from the true Mantellisaurus. Would it be appropriate to move the discussion of the Maidstone iguanodont under the section "Gideon Mantell, Richard Owen, and the discovery of dinosaurs" to the Mantellodon article, since Mantellodon is a bit older than true Mantellisaurus and Gideon Mantell himself was unaware that Mantellodon came from much younger rocks than Therosaurus anglicus?
Gregory S. Paul (2012). "Notes on the rising diversity of iguanodont taxa, and iguanodonts named after Darwin, Huxley and evolutionary science". Actas de V Jornadas Internacionales sobre Paleontologia de Dinosaurios y su Entorno, Salas de los Infantes, Burgos. Colectivo Arqeologico-Paleontologico de Salas de los Infantes (Burgos). pp. 121–131. 68.4.28.33 ( talk) 19:39, 12 September 2013 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
"Iguanodon (/ɨˈɡwɑːnədɒn/ i-GWAH-nə-don; meaning "iguana-tooth") is a genus of ornithopod dinosaur that existed roughly halfway between the first of the swift bipedal hypsilophodontids of the mid-Jurassic and the duck-billed dinosaurs of the late Cretaceous."- Being a hadrosauriform wouldn't it be much closer t the hadrosaur end of the spectrum? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.176.114.76 ( talk) 17:37, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
The description says "with toothless beaks probably covered with keratin, and teeth like those of iguanas". Please make it clearer as to how something can have a toothless beak and teeth at the same time. Thanks. Fig ( talk) 21:52, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
There is written in the article, that "In older sources, Iguanodontidae was shown as a distinct family." Does it mean, that in newer sources it is not considered a family? Infobox in this article also reads that Iguanodon belongs to the family Iguanodontidae, and in the article on Ornithopods we can read that Iguanodontidae is a family belonging to that infraorder, too. Jan.Kamenicek ( talk) 12:35, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
The issue still has not been solved. The infobox says that iguanodontidae is a family, while the article says that it was considered a family in older sources. I think that featured article should not contain such ambiguous information. Jan.Kamenicek ( talk) 21:25, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
Norman, D. B. (2015), On the history, osteology, and systematic position of the Wealden (Hastings group) dinosaur Hypselospinus fittoni (Iguanodontia: Styracosterna). Zoological Journal of the Linnean Society, 173: 92–189. doi: 10.1111/zoj.12193 72.194.115.252 ( talk) 23:25, 31 May 2015 (UTC)Vahe Demirjian
Dinoguy2 has just mentioned the new paper about the, until now unrecognised, 1824 publication. It is, of course, not our task to point this out in the text but Simpson is mistaken in his conclusion that the name Iguanadon would be a nomen nudum. He states that a "proper scientific description" is needed. While this is true in a sense, he apparently misleads himself into thinking this means that descriptions of low quality, that are not "good enough", do not meet this criterion. This is incorrect: any minimal real description suffices. The ICZN does not use the qualification "proper". Such a description is present in the newspaper article. Furthermore, the newspaper article can be seen, if the reference to the on the Geology of Sussex is deemed bibliographical enough, as containing an indication of an earlier description of the teeth by Mantell and such an indication alone is sufficient to meet the description criterion and also sufficiently denotes a syntype series. So, Iguanadon seems in principle to be the valid name. It could be formally declared a nomen oblitum — but Simpson did not. On the DML Ben Creisler suggested that the name would be invalid because it was not published in a technical publication but no such condition is part of the ICZN.-- MWAK ( talk) 09:46, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
The 2 March 2007 version of this article that passed the featured article review process stated: "Mantell did not describe his findings until 1825, when he presented a paper on the remains to the Royal Society of London". The 9 May 2016 version of this article stated (until I corrected it here) that "Mantell formally published his findings on 10 February 1825, when he presented a paper on the remains to the Royal Geological Society of London.". (Technically, Mantell wrote to Davies Gilbert and Gilbert read the paper out to the Society.) How did this error creep into the article? In an edit on 28 February 2009, an existing link to 'Royal Society' was changed to read "Royal Geological Society" with a piped link to Royal Society. A bit earlier in the same section, a similar link in the '1822' sentence (about the fossils being presented to the Geological Society) is incorrectly piped to the Royal Society. I corrected this here. FWIW, the incorrectly piped link was de-linked here on 25 October 2013 (the edit summary claimed to be removing 'duplicate links' but clearly the actual edit being done wasn't examined closely enough as otherwise the inconsistency might have been picked up then). What appears to have happened is that User:MWAK, in introducing the 1822 bit about the Geological Society of London (which has never been known as 'Royal' though it does have a royal charter), created an incorrectly piped link (the piped text was right, the link was wrong) and used the same piped link for the 1825 sentence (where the link was correct but the piped text was wrong). And no-one noticed that until now, over seven years later. That was a right mess (relatively minor but still annoying - this error has propagated outwards to many other websites).
Pinging MWAK and IJReid in case I am wrong and further edits are needed here. Carcharoth ( talk) 17:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 04:30, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 07:31, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
This article will be on the main page on April 23rd. I recommend giving the article a look over before it runs. -- Harizotoh9 ( talk) 03:17, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The taxobox lists Hikanodon and Iguanosaurus as possible synonyms, and then the species section ends with them being referred to as objective junior synonyms. This already contradicts itself, with the presence of question marks followed by the synonymy being called objective. However, I'm more concerned about rather the names are even at all. I can't find any reference of Iguanosaurus being validly published in 1828, only of the nomen nudum case from 1824, and the DOI leads to a page which indicates that the reference is about amphibians. Could be an artefact of it being older than Dinosauria as a name, but it's not helping the case. Hikanodon was definitely actually used as a name in the indicated publication, twice, but I've been told what's there doesn't constitute a proper coining, and I'm inclined to agree. It's treated as valid in the Dinosaur Genera List, but this DML message [11] doesn't give confidence that's done with any more certainty. Could anybody present any evidence either of these are valid names, and if Iguanosaurus Ritgen 1828 even exists? Lusotitan ( Talk | Contributions) 01:38, 23 April 2018 (UTC)