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Sardur come to the talk page. And explain yourself why do you call me a Vandal?
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 13:29, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
To transform:
"The population of the theme—at its largest extent—was multiethnic with the
Armenian majority, including a sizable Armenian community of
Chalcedonic rite to which Byzantines sometimes expanded, as a denominational name, the
ethnonym "
Iberian", a
Graeco-Roman designation of
Georgians.[1][2]"
^
abRapp, Stephen H. (2003), Studies In Medieval Georgian Historiography: Early Texts And Eurasian Contexts, p. 414. Peeters Bvba
ISBN90-429-1318-5.
^Арутюновой – Фиданян, В. А. Типик Григория Пакуриана. Введение, перевод и комментарий. Ереван, 1978, с. 249.
It's not vandalism. The word Iberians and Iberian means Georgian and the Armenian Author (Арутюновой – Фиданян) writes as if the Orthodox Armenians were Georgians. That's the thing I've edited. Iberians are the name of Georgians. Do you understand it now?
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 13:46, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
You're manipulating a source. Whether you like it or not, this is what the source says.
Sardur (
talk) 14:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
The theme was not Armenian it was Georgian. Don't you understand? The quote of the source is from an Armenian which cannot be trusted in this case. How in the world Iberians were Armenians and they were Georgians at the same time?
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 14:05, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
I've added the objective sources. Now you better stop this edit war or you will find yourself being banned for some time. Last warning.
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 14:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
The source explains it, whether you like it or not. Now stop or you will be reported.
Sardur (
talk) 23:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
GeorgianJorjadze, your edits appear very pov. You have altered the accepted terminology of places and regions and deleted accepted history. And you are giving no explanation for it. Becasue of this, I reverted your edits. You changed "kingdom of Ani" to "lands of Ani", you changed "kingdom of Kars" to "lands of Kars". These are not the accepted terms for those entities. You deleted the information dealing with the theme's capital: "these provinces were organized by Basil II into the theme of Iberia with the capital at Theodosiopolis".
Meowy 21:03, 20 April 2012 (UTC)reply
You may revert some of my changes back. But leave the rest alone. Iberian theme represents Georgian heritage so the History bar and the maps should stay. I didn't know if Ani was a kingdom though.
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 21:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Requested move 6 August 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support per nominator.
JIP |
Talk 00:27, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
AlternativeIberia, Byzantine Empire. The current, and proposed title is a surprise for most of the people who do not know history of Byzantine empire. To a general reader, current titles sound like theme song/music of something. —usernamekiran
(talk) 17:18, 28 August 2022 (UTC)reply
SupportIberia, Byzantine Empire per usernamekiran, I assumed this was about a musical theme before I read that.
ASUKITE 18:22, 30 August 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 11 September 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was:
no consensus. This RM had almost as many proposed titles as it had participants, and none of the titles attracted a clear consensus. My analyses of the arguments around individual proposed titles are as follows:
There seems to be general dissatisfaction with the current title,
Iberia, Byzantine Empire. This dissatisfaction largely centers around two points. First, the title uses comma-separated disambiguation for a large subnational division, which contradicts the guideline at
WP:PLACEDAB; second, the current title fails
WP:CONSISTENT when compared to other themes of the Byzantine Empire. Meanwhile, support for "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" was largely procedural in nature, as some participants argued that it was too soon after
the previous RM to open another one.
Most discussion around the originally proposed title,
Theme of Iberia, pertained to whether the title would be
WP:ASTONISHing for readers. Multiple people stated that "Theme of Iberia" would call to mind
theme music or a
narrative theme for readers not versed in Byzantine history; however, it was also argued that the risk of confusion would not be significant enough to be factored into the decision-making process (with the guideline
WP:NWFCTM being mentioned in support of this latter view). Finally, in addition to discussion of the "Theme of Iberia" title directly, I think the extent of support for alternate moves suggests a degree of implicit opposition to this title; "Theme of Iberia" was the original proposal, and while it attracted relatively little overt opposition, multiple active participants in the discussion declined to support it, even when discussing large groups of options.
Iberia (theme) was another proposed title, which attained a handful of supporters over the course of the discussion. The main policy that was leveled in its support was
WP:CONSISTENT, as participants noted that
Iberia (theme) was consistent with the article titles for other Byzantine themes. However, as this proposed title does not include an explicit reference to the Byzantine Empire, the same
WP:ASTONISH disputes from my previous bullet point apply here as well.
As an alternative to "Iberia (theme)",
Iberia (Byzantine theme) was proposed. This title attracted little enthusiastic support, but was mentioned by several people as an acceptable alternative to their first preference. The only objection to "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" was that it would be "too much of a mouthful", indicating that the objection was probably on
WP:CONCISE grounds.
The title
Byzantine Iberia attracted support early in the discussion, but discussion of it mostly ceased after one user mentioned that it could lead to confusion with
Spania. Interestingly, this was the only line of discussion where the
Iberian Peninsula played a significant role; the peninsula was mentioned elsewhere in the RM, but was not otherwise treated as a dominant factor in users' decision-making processes.
Other titles that came up in the discussion (Byzantine theme of Iberia; Iberia (Byzantine Empire); Administrative division of Iberia; Théma of Iberia) were either quickly rejected or minimally discussed.
To my eye, the titles that came closest to achieving consensus were
Iberia (theme) and
Iberia (Byzantine theme), but I didn't find that either of them quite made it over the threshold. Because of the lack of consensus and the general distaste for the current title, I think it could be productive to have an RFC-style discussion that explicitly pits several potential titles against each other from the beginning. This would help to increase the odds that participants provide their opinions on all potential titles, and will thus improve the chances of identifying a consensus. (
non-admin closure)
ModernDayTrilobite (
talk •
contribs) 20:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)reply
(Edit: After a brief
discussion on my talk page, I've decided that, in the absence of consensus, it's best to keep the article at the stable title that it held before this recent sequence of two RMs. This move restores the title to
Iberia (theme), but does not necessarily indicate a consensus for that title; rather, it reflects that – when taking both recent RMs into consideration together – there was not a consensus to move away from that title.)
ModernDayTrilobite (
talk •
contribs) 03:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Iberia, Byzantine Empire → Theme of Iberia – Again, per
WP:CONCISE and
WP:CONSIST, I still believe Theme of Iberia would be perfectly suiting name as "X of Iberia" is better description for the polity, but as it was rejected by the colleagues in previous move-request I am suggesting we offer better fitting name as the current name reads like a name of a little town in the middle of nowhere. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 01:52, 11 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting.– robertsky (
talk) 04:40, 18 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Alternative how about "Iberia (Byzantine theme)"? For consistency "Theme of Iberia" is better but "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" captures the actual topic of the article while noting that
Iberian Peninsula is not what was intended.
Bayonet-lightbulb (
talk) 02:39, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Greetings
User:Bayonet-lightbulb! Article was named "Iberia (theme)" before moving and adding "Byzantine" will make it way too much of a mouthful. I understand the general confusion with the peninsula but the polity of a theme was neither established there, nor was anything named "Theme of Iberia" there. How about Byzantine Iberia? Again, the peninsula should not determine the name as the Byzantium was very far east from it and didn't rule the area. Would you support moving it to "Theme of Iberia"? Because, certainly that is my #1 option for consistency of names for polities.
An emperor ///
Ave 03:00, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your feedback! "Theme of Iberia" and/or "Byzantine Iberia" has my full support. Let's see what other colleagues will have to say. Hopefully we will all arrive to the best fitting name for this polity. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 03:23, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment Alas, "Byzantine Iberia" will likely be confused with "
Spania". I think "Theme of Iberia" should have been the title, or possibly "Byzantine theme of Iberia". But "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" works fine too.
Walrasiad (
talk) 08:04, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Greetings
User:Walrasiad! Yes, thank you for your feedback. I feel that "Theme of Iberia" is the best option. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 13:10, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Dear colleagues
User:Bayonet-lightbulb and
User:Walrasiad, do we all agree on "Theme of Iberia"? If so, I'll change the suggusted move to "Theme of Iberia" and we can vote. I support "Theme of Iberia". Please confirm your votes or any feedback that we can reach consensus. Thank you!
An emperor ///
Ave 02:10, 16 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Support
Iberia (theme) (first preference) and then "Theme of Iberia". I suppose "Byzantine theme of Iberia" and "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" would be improvements over the current title. I would even accept "Byzantine Iberia" with a hatnote, but it is probably best to avoid that.
Srnec (
talk) 00:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC) [edited 01:23, 26 September 2022 (UTC)]reply
Thank you
Srnec for your feedback and vote. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 01:32, 19 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Strong procedural close this same proposed destiantion was proposed last month. This is excessive renomination speed. Wait until next year to resubmit --
65.92.247.226 (
talk) 06:01, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I closed the last RM with a consensus to move to the present title. I was persuaded in my close by the argument that "Theme" could be confused with a musical theme, so was not a good disambiguator, and also that there was some potential for confusion with the Iberian peninsula. Overall the arguments made by those who proposed that title last time were good, and it should remain at the Iberia, Byzantine Empire title. Per above I also don't think a new RM should have been opened so soon after the last one found consensus. —
Amakuru (
talk) 07:21, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
oppose per my vote in previous RM, Amakuru, WP:SURPRISE, and natural English.
Theme of Exodus is theme for
Exodus (1960 film). That's how most of the readers will think, if not all. If you want "X of Iberia" format, then how is "
administrative division of Iberia"? —usernamekiran
(talk) 16:30, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
update I now support to "Iberia (theme)", per the discussion below. —usernamekiran
(talk) 04:34, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Greetings
User:usernamekiran. Thanks for voting. "administrative division of Iberia" won't work as the article is about Byzantine theme.
An emperor ///
Ave 23:55, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NWFCTM. You'd have to be big into film music for "Theme of Exodus" to bring to mind the musical theme of the 1960 film Exodus.
Srnec (
talk) 15:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Upon reviewing
Category:Themes of the Byzantine Empire, I now think the original title should be restored for consistency: "Iberia (theme)". In any case, "theme" is the word used for these districts and anybody searching for them internally or externally will be using that word, so who is going to end up here an be surprised?
Srnec (
talk) 01:23, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree, "Iberia (theme)" seems to be the best option on all angles, including consistency from the category. I have updated my vote.
Support for reasons stated above.
Ghirla-трёп- 15:46, 25 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment the present title is worse than the one which existed previously, given that it both sounds like some small town (look at the other places listed on the disambig page like
Iberia, Minnesota and
Iberia, Missouri) and does not match with other similar polities. I note that I don't actually believe Theme of Iberia would get too many people confused, seeing as there is not really any famous artistic work beyond the
suite by Albéniz which does not have a single coherent theme. Nevertheless that title was recently rejected. By the way is it worth considering how this change reflects on the other Byzantine themes which are titled pretty incoherently, judging by the lists on
Theme (Byzantine district).
Bayonet-lightbulb (
talk) 01:21, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
SupportIberia (theme). None of the possibilities here are particularly good, but Iberia (theme) does at least have the benefit of consistency with other articles in
Category:Themes of the Byzantine Empire, as noted above. The problem with the current title is that we don't typically use comma-separated disambiguation for "
larger subdivisions or historical regions" such as this one. I suppose
Iberia (Byzantine Empire) might be fine, but since that'd still leave us with a consistency issue, I guess the original title is probably as good as we're going to get.
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 05:25, 5 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Georgia (country), a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Georgia and
Georgians on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Georgia (country)Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (country)Template:WikiProject Georgia (country)Georgia (country) articles
This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Iberia (theme) is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to
Armenia and
Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the
project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Greek history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
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the Middle Ages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Middle AgesWikipedia:WikiProject Middle AgesTemplate:WikiProject Middle AgesMiddle Ages articles
Sardur come to the talk page. And explain yourself why do you call me a Vandal?
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 13:29, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
To transform:
"The population of the theme—at its largest extent—was multiethnic with the
Armenian majority, including a sizable Armenian community of
Chalcedonic rite to which Byzantines sometimes expanded, as a denominational name, the
ethnonym "
Iberian", a
Graeco-Roman designation of
Georgians.[1][2]"
^
abRapp, Stephen H. (2003), Studies In Medieval Georgian Historiography: Early Texts And Eurasian Contexts, p. 414. Peeters Bvba
ISBN90-429-1318-5.
^Арутюновой – Фиданян, В. А. Типик Григория Пакуриана. Введение, перевод и комментарий. Ереван, 1978, с. 249.
It's not vandalism. The word Iberians and Iberian means Georgian and the Armenian Author (Арутюновой – Фиданян) writes as if the Orthodox Armenians were Georgians. That's the thing I've edited. Iberians are the name of Georgians. Do you understand it now?
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 13:46, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
You're manipulating a source. Whether you like it or not, this is what the source says.
Sardur (
talk) 14:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
The theme was not Armenian it was Georgian. Don't you understand? The quote of the source is from an Armenian which cannot be trusted in this case. How in the world Iberians were Armenians and they were Georgians at the same time?
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 14:05, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
I've added the objective sources. Now you better stop this edit war or you will find yourself being banned for some time. Last warning.
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 14:13, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
The source explains it, whether you like it or not. Now stop or you will be reported.
Sardur (
talk) 23:02, 19 April 2012 (UTC)reply
GeorgianJorjadze, your edits appear very pov. You have altered the accepted terminology of places and regions and deleted accepted history. And you are giving no explanation for it. Becasue of this, I reverted your edits. You changed "kingdom of Ani" to "lands of Ani", you changed "kingdom of Kars" to "lands of Kars". These are not the accepted terms for those entities. You deleted the information dealing with the theme's capital: "these provinces were organized by Basil II into the theme of Iberia with the capital at Theodosiopolis".
Meowy 21:03, 20 April 2012 (UTC)reply
You may revert some of my changes back. But leave the rest alone. Iberian theme represents Georgian heritage so the History bar and the maps should stay. I didn't know if Ani was a kingdom though.
GeorgianJorjadze (
talk) 21:26, 20 April 2012 (UTC)reply
Requested move 6 August 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support per nominator.
JIP |
Talk 00:27, 14 August 2022 (UTC)reply
AlternativeIberia, Byzantine Empire. The current, and proposed title is a surprise for most of the people who do not know history of Byzantine empire. To a general reader, current titles sound like theme song/music of something. —usernamekiran
(talk) 17:18, 28 August 2022 (UTC)reply
SupportIberia, Byzantine Empire per usernamekiran, I assumed this was about a musical theme before I read that.
ASUKITE 18:22, 30 August 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Requested move 11 September 2022
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was:
no consensus. This RM had almost as many proposed titles as it had participants, and none of the titles attracted a clear consensus. My analyses of the arguments around individual proposed titles are as follows:
There seems to be general dissatisfaction with the current title,
Iberia, Byzantine Empire. This dissatisfaction largely centers around two points. First, the title uses comma-separated disambiguation for a large subnational division, which contradicts the guideline at
WP:PLACEDAB; second, the current title fails
WP:CONSISTENT when compared to other themes of the Byzantine Empire. Meanwhile, support for "Iberia, Byzantine Empire" was largely procedural in nature, as some participants argued that it was too soon after
the previous RM to open another one.
Most discussion around the originally proposed title,
Theme of Iberia, pertained to whether the title would be
WP:ASTONISHing for readers. Multiple people stated that "Theme of Iberia" would call to mind
theme music or a
narrative theme for readers not versed in Byzantine history; however, it was also argued that the risk of confusion would not be significant enough to be factored into the decision-making process (with the guideline
WP:NWFCTM being mentioned in support of this latter view). Finally, in addition to discussion of the "Theme of Iberia" title directly, I think the extent of support for alternate moves suggests a degree of implicit opposition to this title; "Theme of Iberia" was the original proposal, and while it attracted relatively little overt opposition, multiple active participants in the discussion declined to support it, even when discussing large groups of options.
Iberia (theme) was another proposed title, which attained a handful of supporters over the course of the discussion. The main policy that was leveled in its support was
WP:CONSISTENT, as participants noted that
Iberia (theme) was consistent with the article titles for other Byzantine themes. However, as this proposed title does not include an explicit reference to the Byzantine Empire, the same
WP:ASTONISH disputes from my previous bullet point apply here as well.
As an alternative to "Iberia (theme)",
Iberia (Byzantine theme) was proposed. This title attracted little enthusiastic support, but was mentioned by several people as an acceptable alternative to their first preference. The only objection to "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" was that it would be "too much of a mouthful", indicating that the objection was probably on
WP:CONCISE grounds.
The title
Byzantine Iberia attracted support early in the discussion, but discussion of it mostly ceased after one user mentioned that it could lead to confusion with
Spania. Interestingly, this was the only line of discussion where the
Iberian Peninsula played a significant role; the peninsula was mentioned elsewhere in the RM, but was not otherwise treated as a dominant factor in users' decision-making processes.
Other titles that came up in the discussion (Byzantine theme of Iberia; Iberia (Byzantine Empire); Administrative division of Iberia; Théma of Iberia) were either quickly rejected or minimally discussed.
To my eye, the titles that came closest to achieving consensus were
Iberia (theme) and
Iberia (Byzantine theme), but I didn't find that either of them quite made it over the threshold. Because of the lack of consensus and the general distaste for the current title, I think it could be productive to have an RFC-style discussion that explicitly pits several potential titles against each other from the beginning. This would help to increase the odds that participants provide their opinions on all potential titles, and will thus improve the chances of identifying a consensus. (
non-admin closure)
ModernDayTrilobite (
talk •
contribs) 20:55, 5 October 2022 (UTC)reply
(Edit: After a brief
discussion on my talk page, I've decided that, in the absence of consensus, it's best to keep the article at the stable title that it held before this recent sequence of two RMs. This move restores the title to
Iberia (theme), but does not necessarily indicate a consensus for that title; rather, it reflects that – when taking both recent RMs into consideration together – there was not a consensus to move away from that title.)
ModernDayTrilobite (
talk •
contribs) 03:30, 11 October 2022 (UTC)reply
Iberia, Byzantine Empire → Theme of Iberia – Again, per
WP:CONCISE and
WP:CONSIST, I still believe Theme of Iberia would be perfectly suiting name as "X of Iberia" is better description for the polity, but as it was rejected by the colleagues in previous move-request I am suggesting we offer better fitting name as the current name reads like a name of a little town in the middle of nowhere. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 01:52, 11 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisting.– robertsky (
talk) 04:40, 18 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Alternative how about "Iberia (Byzantine theme)"? For consistency "Theme of Iberia" is better but "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" captures the actual topic of the article while noting that
Iberian Peninsula is not what was intended.
Bayonet-lightbulb (
talk) 02:39, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Greetings
User:Bayonet-lightbulb! Article was named "Iberia (theme)" before moving and adding "Byzantine" will make it way too much of a mouthful. I understand the general confusion with the peninsula but the polity of a theme was neither established there, nor was anything named "Theme of Iberia" there. How about Byzantine Iberia? Again, the peninsula should not determine the name as the Byzantium was very far east from it and didn't rule the area. Would you support moving it to "Theme of Iberia"? Because, certainly that is my #1 option for consistency of names for polities.
An emperor ///
Ave 03:00, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Thank you for your feedback! "Theme of Iberia" and/or "Byzantine Iberia" has my full support. Let's see what other colleagues will have to say. Hopefully we will all arrive to the best fitting name for this polity. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 03:23, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment Alas, "Byzantine Iberia" will likely be confused with "
Spania". I think "Theme of Iberia" should have been the title, or possibly "Byzantine theme of Iberia". But "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" works fine too.
Walrasiad (
talk) 08:04, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Greetings
User:Walrasiad! Yes, thank you for your feedback. I feel that "Theme of Iberia" is the best option. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 13:10, 11 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Dear colleagues
User:Bayonet-lightbulb and
User:Walrasiad, do we all agree on "Theme of Iberia"? If so, I'll change the suggusted move to "Theme of Iberia" and we can vote. I support "Theme of Iberia". Please confirm your votes or any feedback that we can reach consensus. Thank you!
An emperor ///
Ave 02:10, 16 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Support
Iberia (theme) (first preference) and then "Theme of Iberia". I suppose "Byzantine theme of Iberia" and "Iberia (Byzantine theme)" would be improvements over the current title. I would even accept "Byzantine Iberia" with a hatnote, but it is probably best to avoid that.
Srnec (
talk) 00:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC) [edited 01:23, 26 September 2022 (UTC)]reply
Thank you
Srnec for your feedback and vote. Regards,
An emperor ///
Ave 01:32, 19 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Strong procedural close this same proposed destiantion was proposed last month. This is excessive renomination speed. Wait until next year to resubmit --
65.92.247.226 (
talk) 06:01, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Oppose. I closed the last RM with a consensus to move to the present title. I was persuaded in my close by the argument that "Theme" could be confused with a musical theme, so was not a good disambiguator, and also that there was some potential for confusion with the Iberian peninsula. Overall the arguments made by those who proposed that title last time were good, and it should remain at the Iberia, Byzantine Empire title. Per above I also don't think a new RM should have been opened so soon after the last one found consensus. —
Amakuru (
talk) 07:21, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
oppose per my vote in previous RM, Amakuru, WP:SURPRISE, and natural English.
Theme of Exodus is theme for
Exodus (1960 film). That's how most of the readers will think, if not all. If you want "X of Iberia" format, then how is "
administrative division of Iberia"? —usernamekiran
(talk) 16:30, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
update I now support to "Iberia (theme)", per the discussion below. —usernamekiran
(talk) 04:34, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Greetings
User:usernamekiran. Thanks for voting. "administrative division of Iberia" won't work as the article is about Byzantine theme.
An emperor ///
Ave 23:55, 24 September 2022 (UTC)reply
WP:NWFCTM. You'd have to be big into film music for "Theme of Exodus" to bring to mind the musical theme of the 1960 film Exodus.
Srnec (
talk) 15:26, 25 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Upon reviewing
Category:Themes of the Byzantine Empire, I now think the original title should be restored for consistency: "Iberia (theme)". In any case, "theme" is the word used for these districts and anybody searching for them internally or externally will be using that word, so who is going to end up here an be surprised?
Srnec (
talk) 01:23, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree, "Iberia (theme)" seems to be the best option on all angles, including consistency from the category. I have updated my vote.
Support for reasons stated above.
Ghirla-трёп- 15:46, 25 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Comment the present title is worse than the one which existed previously, given that it both sounds like some small town (look at the other places listed on the disambig page like
Iberia, Minnesota and
Iberia, Missouri) and does not match with other similar polities. I note that I don't actually believe Theme of Iberia would get too many people confused, seeing as there is not really any famous artistic work beyond the
suite by Albéniz which does not have a single coherent theme. Nevertheless that title was recently rejected. By the way is it worth considering how this change reflects on the other Byzantine themes which are titled pretty incoherently, judging by the lists on
Theme (Byzantine district).
Bayonet-lightbulb (
talk) 01:21, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
SupportIberia (theme). None of the possibilities here are particularly good, but Iberia (theme) does at least have the benefit of consistency with other articles in
Category:Themes of the Byzantine Empire, as noted above. The problem with the current title is that we don't typically use comma-separated disambiguation for "
larger subdivisions or historical regions" such as this one. I suppose
Iberia (Byzantine Empire) might be fine, but since that'd still leave us with a consistency issue, I guess the original title is probably as good as we're going to get.
Extraordinary Writ (
talk) 05:25, 5 October 2022 (UTC)reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.