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On 22 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to I vow to thee, my country. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Currently the word British in the first line redirects to United Kingdom. This should be corrected? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.89.224.161 ( talk) 02:23, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
At Princess Dianas Funeral, this song was played as it was deemed one of her favourites and chosen by her son, Prince William.
I copied from the commentary misplaced under Lyrics. I'd recommend omitting it; and I will do so in a little while. Dsnow75 [[User Talk: Dsnow75|Talk]] ( talk) 05:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
It can't be both, folks. And do we have a source for Holst being okay with his tune being used? The Wednesday Island 14:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Anachronism: in a recent WW1 documentary, a choir was shown singing the words, set to 'Jupiter', in about 1916. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.133.88 ( talk) 14:05, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
References
Perhaps there should be a reference to the third verse...?
Just to add to this, further to the deletion, twice today, of the third verse, and its associated source and content. Just because the third verse is not sung, nor included in hymn books, that is not a valid reason to simply remove the lyrics and also a source in this article and remove additional content. I have though removed the additional wording which had no place on the article that was written in the style of a comment on a talk page. ♦Tangerines♦· Talk 17:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I have tried to google the deleted verse and the only source I've found says it is probably a hoax. I would be minded to remove it from the article unless someone can come up with a verifiable source. Sidefall 19:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
It would be more appropriately described as a hymn of the Commonwealth nations than of merely England.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.28.240.20 ( talk) 18 April 2007
Entries for "Cecil Spring-Rice" and "I vow to thee, my country" don't match. Cecil Spring-Rice died 14th February 1918 - I vow to thee my country written in 1918 after the 1st World War which ended 11th November 1918???? 211.26.57.186 15:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
At that time, the first verse glorified warfare in a manner common to the bellicose patriotism at the beginning of the Great War. if anyone has these words, could they please add them to this article - it would be very interesting to see what they say. Sidefall 17:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Please check this out as well. It has the same melody, but different words I think. This should be included in the article as it is another rendition of I Vow to Thee my country.
the youtube link below is from the United States, sung in a church in Tennessee. it's towards the end of the clip.
ApsbaMd2 ( talk) 15:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Surely this should not be in the English Patriotic songs category, as it is a British song! ARBAY ( talk) 22:00, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Then why is it in the Navbox under United kingdom Patriotic Songs ??
Things from the UK are usually called British and the UK is often taken as a country. I still Think as there is no explicit (or implicit) reference to England it should be placed in British Patriotic songs Category . ARBAY ( talk) 18:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
This is not an English patriotic song. It is mostly associated with the British armed forces. Please remove the link to the English patriotic songs category. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.230.23.6 ( talk) 04:58, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I think the revision by XLinkBot was wrong is there a wiki policy which does not allow for links to youtube???
I'm sure I heard somewhere (BBC radio 4 programme?) that Spring-Rice rewrote the poem/lyric after his own son's death in the first world war? This would be important to add if true. 122.176.218.248 ( talk) 17:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, how is the distinction drawn between the sections Contemporary Use vs Commercal Uses? I meant to add its use near the end of the TV Movie "Page Eight"(2011) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1797469/combined but couldn't tell which of these sections to use. Jojoba2 ( talk) 06:02, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
In the opening line the hymn is described as 'British'. However as a Briton I have never heard it outside of England, and it is often used as an English national anthem; in the Commonwealth Games for instance. User:WatermillockCommon claims it is sung in Scottish schools, but in my own school in West Lothian I never once heard it. Zacwill16 ( talk) 15:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
I just found that someone delete most of the 2nd verse and duplicate the 1st verse instead. I think the 2nd verse should be there and just mention aside that it wont be sung anymore, not to omit it at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:A140:F14:C957:3F77:57F6:9F41 ( talk) 02:11, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
The text of the "second verse" was added by an anonymous editor back in 2007 [2]. No reference was given. Almost nine years later, still no reference. Google books gives me ten previewable hits on the lyrics, all of which are published after 2007. This is not a good sign. Fortunately, I get one single snippet view dated 1929 which appear to confirm the lyrics are indeed by Spring-Rice [3] (The Letters and Friendships of Sir Cecil Spring Rice p. 433). It would seem that this is a snippet from a letter by Spring-Rice, but I cannot verify when or if he ever published the text in this form.
Referenced information on the publication history of the text, especially on the chronology of this supposed censorship of a "second verse", is badly needed here. -- dab (𒁳) 16:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
It turns out the "second verse" never was part of the hymn. Spring-Rice replaced it before the poem was ever set to music. This is why it is necessary to cite sources (and tag or remove claims that fail to do so) -- you avoid filling the internet with complaints that "the second verse was censored" just because "Wikipedia says so" (viz. because a random IP editor claimed as much back in 2007). -- dab (𒁳) 06:37, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
The current text says "The original first verse of Spring-Rice's poem Urbs Dei / The Two Father Lands (1908-1912), never set to music, was as follows:" ... actually, in Beck Goldsmith's version (which, besides being used in the trailer for the Village, was released as a purchasable track) the first two lines of the original first verse are included in the arrangement, in a new third verse. I'd suggest, rather than "never set to music", this para reads as ", not included in Holst's original arrangement or subsequent religious arrangements, was as follows:" (or something like that).
Goldsmith's third verse reads as follows:
"I heard my country calling, away across the sea,
Across the waste of waters, she calls and calls to me.
Her love that asks no question, her love that stands the test,
That lays upon the altar the dearest and the best;
I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above,
Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love."
You can hear it here: http://www.beckgoldsmith.co.uk/music/ (scroll down; btw I don't know BG nor do I have any commercial interest in her or any other version of the song). Shady18n ( talk) 13:33, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
The earlier version had the single title "Urbs Dei", only in the later version did the title "The Two Father Lands" appear. Question: What sense did the title "Urbs Dei" make in the first version? A snippet I came across claims it was simply a heraldic motto of Spring-Rice's ancestors. The german Wikipedia entry claims that in performances until fairly recently, the earlier version was inserted as second verse, the second verse of the later version becoming the third verse (thereby creating a mongrel of the peaceful later version and the bellicose early version). Can anybody give proof of this by sources? -- Quinbus Flestrin ( talk) 10:53, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
The song was played at Prince Philip's funeral in 2020. I think it should be added to the "Contemporary use" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AfwasSysteem ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hark! The Herald Angels Sing which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 21:46, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||
|
On 22 June 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved to I vow to thee, my country. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
Currently the word British in the first line redirects to United Kingdom. This should be corrected? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.89.224.161 ( talk) 02:23, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
At Princess Dianas Funeral, this song was played as it was deemed one of her favourites and chosen by her son, Prince William.
I copied from the commentary misplaced under Lyrics. I'd recommend omitting it; and I will do so in a little while. Dsnow75 [[User Talk: Dsnow75|Talk]] ( talk) 05:22, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
It can't be both, folks. And do we have a source for Holst being okay with his tune being used? The Wednesday Island 14:43, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Anachronism: in a recent WW1 documentary, a choir was shown singing the words, set to 'Jupiter', in about 1916. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.159.133.88 ( talk) 14:05, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
References
Perhaps there should be a reference to the third verse...?
Just to add to this, further to the deletion, twice today, of the third verse, and its associated source and content. Just because the third verse is not sung, nor included in hymn books, that is not a valid reason to simply remove the lyrics and also a source in this article and remove additional content. I have though removed the additional wording which had no place on the article that was written in the style of a comment on a talk page. ♦Tangerines♦· Talk 17:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
I have tried to google the deleted verse and the only source I've found says it is probably a hoax. I would be minded to remove it from the article unless someone can come up with a verifiable source. Sidefall 19:13, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
It would be more appropriately described as a hymn of the Commonwealth nations than of merely England.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.28.240.20 ( talk) 18 April 2007
Entries for "Cecil Spring-Rice" and "I vow to thee, my country" don't match. Cecil Spring-Rice died 14th February 1918 - I vow to thee my country written in 1918 after the 1st World War which ended 11th November 1918???? 211.26.57.186 15:18, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
At that time, the first verse glorified warfare in a manner common to the bellicose patriotism at the beginning of the Great War. if anyone has these words, could they please add them to this article - it would be very interesting to see what they say. Sidefall 17:37, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Please check this out as well. It has the same melody, but different words I think. This should be included in the article as it is another rendition of I Vow to Thee my country.
the youtube link below is from the United States, sung in a church in Tennessee. it's towards the end of the clip.
ApsbaMd2 ( talk) 15:30, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
Surely this should not be in the English Patriotic songs category, as it is a British song! ARBAY ( talk) 22:00, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Then why is it in the Navbox under United kingdom Patriotic Songs ??
Things from the UK are usually called British and the UK is often taken as a country. I still Think as there is no explicit (or implicit) reference to England it should be placed in British Patriotic songs Category . ARBAY ( talk) 18:39, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
This is not an English patriotic song. It is mostly associated with the British armed forces. Please remove the link to the English patriotic songs category. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.230.23.6 ( talk) 04:58, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
I think the revision by XLinkBot was wrong is there a wiki policy which does not allow for links to youtube???
I'm sure I heard somewhere (BBC radio 4 programme?) that Spring-Rice rewrote the poem/lyric after his own son's death in the first world war? This would be important to add if true. 122.176.218.248 ( talk) 17:21, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, how is the distinction drawn between the sections Contemporary Use vs Commercal Uses? I meant to add its use near the end of the TV Movie "Page Eight"(2011) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1797469/combined but couldn't tell which of these sections to use. Jojoba2 ( talk) 06:02, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
In the opening line the hymn is described as 'British'. However as a Briton I have never heard it outside of England, and it is often used as an English national anthem; in the Commonwealth Games for instance. User:WatermillockCommon claims it is sung in Scottish schools, but in my own school in West Lothian I never once heard it. Zacwill16 ( talk) 15:59, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
I just found that someone delete most of the 2nd verse and duplicate the 1st verse instead. I think the 2nd verse should be there and just mention aside that it wont be sung anymore, not to omit it at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8109:A140:F14:C957:3F77:57F6:9F41 ( talk) 02:11, 9 December 2014 (UTC)
The text of the "second verse" was added by an anonymous editor back in 2007 [2]. No reference was given. Almost nine years later, still no reference. Google books gives me ten previewable hits on the lyrics, all of which are published after 2007. This is not a good sign. Fortunately, I get one single snippet view dated 1929 which appear to confirm the lyrics are indeed by Spring-Rice [3] (The Letters and Friendships of Sir Cecil Spring Rice p. 433). It would seem that this is a snippet from a letter by Spring-Rice, but I cannot verify when or if he ever published the text in this form.
Referenced information on the publication history of the text, especially on the chronology of this supposed censorship of a "second verse", is badly needed here. -- dab (𒁳) 16:34, 29 June 2016 (UTC)
It turns out the "second verse" never was part of the hymn. Spring-Rice replaced it before the poem was ever set to music. This is why it is necessary to cite sources (and tag or remove claims that fail to do so) -- you avoid filling the internet with complaints that "the second verse was censored" just because "Wikipedia says so" (viz. because a random IP editor claimed as much back in 2007). -- dab (𒁳) 06:37, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
The current text says "The original first verse of Spring-Rice's poem Urbs Dei / The Two Father Lands (1908-1912), never set to music, was as follows:" ... actually, in Beck Goldsmith's version (which, besides being used in the trailer for the Village, was released as a purchasable track) the first two lines of the original first verse are included in the arrangement, in a new third verse. I'd suggest, rather than "never set to music", this para reads as ", not included in Holst's original arrangement or subsequent religious arrangements, was as follows:" (or something like that).
Goldsmith's third verse reads as follows:
"I heard my country calling, away across the sea,
Across the waste of waters, she calls and calls to me.
Her love that asks no question, her love that stands the test,
That lays upon the altar the dearest and the best;
I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above,
Entire and whole and perfect, the service of my love."
You can hear it here: http://www.beckgoldsmith.co.uk/music/ (scroll down; btw I don't know BG nor do I have any commercial interest in her or any other version of the song). Shady18n ( talk) 13:33, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
The earlier version had the single title "Urbs Dei", only in the later version did the title "The Two Father Lands" appear. Question: What sense did the title "Urbs Dei" make in the first version? A snippet I came across claims it was simply a heraldic motto of Spring-Rice's ancestors. The german Wikipedia entry claims that in performances until fairly recently, the earlier version was inserted as second verse, the second verse of the later version becoming the third verse (thereby creating a mongrel of the peaceful later version and the bellicose early version). Can anybody give proof of this by sources? -- Quinbus Flestrin ( talk) 10:53, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
The song was played at Prince Philip's funeral in 2020. I think it should be added to the "Contemporary use" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AfwasSysteem ( talk • contribs) 19:57, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Hark! The Herald Angels Sing which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 21:46, 22 June 2023 (UTC)