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In the " Unofficial codes for cryptocurrencies" it currently states that 6 cryptocurrencies 'conflict' with the ISO 4217. I think that statement is not true. A 3 cryptocurrency letter identifier like BTC, BNB, ADA, BSV, ETH and LTC does not conflict with a 2 letter identifier from the ISO like BT, BN, AD, BS, ET, LT. My suggestion is that we delete the notes on that. Agree?
The first Wikipedia question is: What is the reliable source of the statement?
Things we could look for in that reliable source: Do cryptocurrencies fall under the ISO 4217 norm?
According to the " NEN-ISO 4217:2015 en" Cite: "Codes for the representation of currencies 1 Scope This International Standard specifies the structure for a three-letter alphabetic code and an equivalent three-digit numeric code for the representation of currencies. For those currencies having minor units, it also shows the decimal relationship between such units and the currency itself. The scope of this International Standard also includes funds and precious metals."
Cite: "3.2 currency medium of exchange of value, defined by reference to the geographical location of the monetary authorities responsible for it"
For example: According to /info/en/?search=Andorra the abbreviation AD is a ISO 3166 code. Nor in the ISO 3166 or ISO 4217:2015 states that ADA is reserved. Same for the others.
Usually whatever a country's CcTLD is, is also the currency codes reserved for that nation. For example.
That's like arguing the phone number starting with +1.212. doesn't belong to Manhattan, New York City. CaribDigita ( talk) 00:13, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
This confirms that only codesWhere the currency is not associated with a single ISO 3166-1 geographical entity, then the following cases apply:
- In the case of the European Union and the euro, the ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency explicitly accepted to reserve the alpha-2 code element “EU” for the European Union to use “EUR” for the purposes of this International Standard.
- In the case that the currency is emitted by a monetary authority, the code shall be allocated by the Maintenance Agency from within the user-assigned range of codes XA to XZ specified in ISO 3166-1:2013, 8.1.3.
EUR
and XAA
to XZZ
can be assigned under the standard to currencies not issued by countries. Most cryptocurrencies don't even meet the standard to have codes assigned at all, given they aren't issued by the European Union or a monetary authority (and I suspect the EU can't just decide to replace the Euro with a cryptocurrency using the same code, either...).
Theknightwho (
talk)
12:43, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
The TLAs used by cryptocurrencies are just that, TLAs. They are as unrelated to ISO 4317 as are the TLAs used by the Internet Engineering Task Force, Wikimedia, Microsoft, or anyone else. Their presence here in the body of the article implies some status within the ISO standard when none exists. The most it deserves, IMO, is a mention in See Also.
Is there any convincing reason to retain? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 11:51, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
#Non ISO 4217 currencies
should collapse to two or three sentences. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk)
16:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
Main article|ISO 4217}}
, but perhaps it's not this article.
Certes (
talk)
19:08, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Cryptocurrency TLAs done. Promissory notes issued in the Russian occupied territories not done, needs a new discussion I suggest - anyone? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 19:41, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
I can confirm that ARY
does in fact refer to the
Argentine peso ley. Here's my exchange with the
Publications Office of the European Union to confirm. For context, this refers to the list of currencies they publish, which formerly included a bunch of additional codes that are not part of the standard (such as ARL
).
Me:
I understand that you have previously been in contact with a different user as regards the ISO 4217 Wikipedia page; specifically the list of currency codes published at https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept-scheme/-/resource?uri=http://publications.europa.eu/resource/authority/currency.
As a result of that discussion, it appears that the code ARL for the Argentine peso ley (used from 1970 to 1983) was retired without replacement. I wanted to bring your attention to the historic code list of ISO 4217, which contains the code ARY under the name "Peso" for Argentina. Given that there have been several Argentine pesos, this naturally presents a point of confusion. However, having looked into the background of this, I am confident that it does in fact refer to the peso ley.
I have checked both the 1978 and 1981 editions of ISO 4217. Argentina was given the currency code ARP back in 1978 (though the first edition did not assign currency names), and again in 1981 with the currency name "Peso". Crucially, however, that this did not change in 1983 when the peso ley was replaced by the peso argentino. Argentina's currency code only changed in 1985, when the peso argentino was replaced by the austral (ARA). It appears that during this period, the ISO sometimes neglected to assign new three letter codes when a country replaced its currency, and that this practice only tightened up once the 1990 edition was released, at which point the ISO retrospectively designated currency codes for the older currencies that had become ambiguous.
For example:
- The 1981 edition assigns Israel the currency code ILS under the name "Shekel". The latest edition assigns ILS to the Israeli new shekel, but this was only introduced in 1986. Between 1980 and 1986 Israel used the (old) shekel, which has been retrospectively given the code ILR in the historic list.
- The 1978 edition assigns Iceland the currency code ISK. The latest edition assigns ISK to the current króna, but this was only introduced in 1981 (making the 1981 edition ambiguous). The old króna has been retrospectively given the code ISJ in the historic list, however.
- The 1978 and 1981 editions assign Vietnam the currency code VND, the latter with the name "Dong". The latest edition assigns VND to the current đồng, but this was only introduced in 1985. The old đồng has been retrospectively given the code VNC in the historic list.
By analogy, it therefore follows that ARY was intended for the Argentine peso ley, which was the currency in use when the 1978 and 1981 editions were released.
Response:
Thank you very much for your feedback on the historic context of the Argentine peso ley.
We have been examining the historic code lists a.o., and ARY is indeed the foreseen code for the Argentine peso ley, and a change of our corresponding authority table to be done.
Translations in all EU languages are necessary for the concept in question, therefore we will plan to have this update of the ‘Currency’ authority table ready for our publication in December 2022 (Releases - EU Vocabularies - Publications Office of the EU (europa.eu)).
Please do not hesitate to contact us further for any questions or feedback regarding the currency codes.
Thank you.
Theknightwho ( talk) 15:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
I added an indirect reference to the start of these historical denominations. They didn't exist before december 1988, when they were formally approved at a general meeting. This document is the only source as the archives send by BSO to Switserland, when they changed the agency in charge, got completely lost! May be there is a local agency or a member who has still copies of the original request done in April/May through Gunnar Sundblad (not the one of the Foundation) or the letter of approval. Until then it is difficult to confirm that the request was made by Rinet sc, located in Brussels. 2A02:A03F:6AF4:4200:10B4:1D59:9D3D:66A7 ( talk) 16:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Template {{ ISO 4217/cite}} now has the source (definition) of the ISO 4217 codes & currencies. See its documentation for use options. This article may need a check. As a bulletlist, the sources are:
Website:
Definition files:
DePiep ( talk) 13:31, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
The ISO 4217 published Standard has Numeric Code
for the codes. However, its definition and its usage are unknown. Does someone have any decisive description of Numeric Code? So far, in {{
Infobox currency}} the Numeric is to be
removed.
DePiep (
talk)
13:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm seeing the links repeated four times. I'm supposing there's a problem with {\{ISO_4217/cite}} in which it no longer filters correctly. Can anyone fix it?
ADTC Talk Ctrb 06:39, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
In the long list of locations for the EUR, one is given as “ Kosovo (XK)”. The “XK” is not official ISO 3166-1 alpha-2, which reserves the X… for user-defined purposes. But lots of countries do use XK for Kosovo (partial list on one of my github pages). I propose to delete the “ (XK)”. Objections? JDAWiseman ( talk) 20:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
The long list of locations for the EUR seems to be in a jumbled order, neither alphabetically, nor by GDP. Would there be any objections to the list being ordered as: EU; then official members ordered by GDP = DE FR IT ES NL BE AT GR PT FI IE SK HR LT SI LV LU EE CY MT; then others alphabetically either by 3166 code or by GDP. JDAWiseman ( talk) 20:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
ISO 4217 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archives ( Index) |
This page is archived by
ClueBot III.
|
In the " Unofficial codes for cryptocurrencies" it currently states that 6 cryptocurrencies 'conflict' with the ISO 4217. I think that statement is not true. A 3 cryptocurrency letter identifier like BTC, BNB, ADA, BSV, ETH and LTC does not conflict with a 2 letter identifier from the ISO like BT, BN, AD, BS, ET, LT. My suggestion is that we delete the notes on that. Agree?
The first Wikipedia question is: What is the reliable source of the statement?
Things we could look for in that reliable source: Do cryptocurrencies fall under the ISO 4217 norm?
According to the " NEN-ISO 4217:2015 en" Cite: "Codes for the representation of currencies 1 Scope This International Standard specifies the structure for a three-letter alphabetic code and an equivalent three-digit numeric code for the representation of currencies. For those currencies having minor units, it also shows the decimal relationship between such units and the currency itself. The scope of this International Standard also includes funds and precious metals."
Cite: "3.2 currency medium of exchange of value, defined by reference to the geographical location of the monetary authorities responsible for it"
For example: According to /info/en/?search=Andorra the abbreviation AD is a ISO 3166 code. Nor in the ISO 3166 or ISO 4217:2015 states that ADA is reserved. Same for the others.
Usually whatever a country's CcTLD is, is also the currency codes reserved for that nation. For example.
That's like arguing the phone number starting with +1.212. doesn't belong to Manhattan, New York City. CaribDigita ( talk) 00:13, 9 January 2022 (UTC)
This confirms that only codesWhere the currency is not associated with a single ISO 3166-1 geographical entity, then the following cases apply:
- In the case of the European Union and the euro, the ISO 3166 Maintenance Agency explicitly accepted to reserve the alpha-2 code element “EU” for the European Union to use “EUR” for the purposes of this International Standard.
- In the case that the currency is emitted by a monetary authority, the code shall be allocated by the Maintenance Agency from within the user-assigned range of codes XA to XZ specified in ISO 3166-1:2013, 8.1.3.
EUR
and XAA
to XZZ
can be assigned under the standard to currencies not issued by countries. Most cryptocurrencies don't even meet the standard to have codes assigned at all, given they aren't issued by the European Union or a monetary authority (and I suspect the EU can't just decide to replace the Euro with a cryptocurrency using the same code, either...).
Theknightwho (
talk)
12:43, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
The TLAs used by cryptocurrencies are just that, TLAs. They are as unrelated to ISO 4317 as are the TLAs used by the Internet Engineering Task Force, Wikimedia, Microsoft, or anyone else. Their presence here in the body of the article implies some status within the ISO standard when none exists. The most it deserves, IMO, is a mention in See Also.
Is there any convincing reason to retain? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 11:51, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
#Non ISO 4217 currencies
should collapse to two or three sentences. --
John Maynard Friedman (
talk)
16:21, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
Main article|ISO 4217}}
, but perhaps it's not this article.
Certes (
talk)
19:08, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
Cryptocurrency TLAs done. Promissory notes issued in the Russian occupied territories not done, needs a new discussion I suggest - anyone? -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 19:41, 3 September 2022 (UTC)
I can confirm that ARY
does in fact refer to the
Argentine peso ley. Here's my exchange with the
Publications Office of the European Union to confirm. For context, this refers to the list of currencies they publish, which formerly included a bunch of additional codes that are not part of the standard (such as ARL
).
Me:
I understand that you have previously been in contact with a different user as regards the ISO 4217 Wikipedia page; specifically the list of currency codes published at https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/concept-scheme/-/resource?uri=http://publications.europa.eu/resource/authority/currency.
As a result of that discussion, it appears that the code ARL for the Argentine peso ley (used from 1970 to 1983) was retired without replacement. I wanted to bring your attention to the historic code list of ISO 4217, which contains the code ARY under the name "Peso" for Argentina. Given that there have been several Argentine pesos, this naturally presents a point of confusion. However, having looked into the background of this, I am confident that it does in fact refer to the peso ley.
I have checked both the 1978 and 1981 editions of ISO 4217. Argentina was given the currency code ARP back in 1978 (though the first edition did not assign currency names), and again in 1981 with the currency name "Peso". Crucially, however, that this did not change in 1983 when the peso ley was replaced by the peso argentino. Argentina's currency code only changed in 1985, when the peso argentino was replaced by the austral (ARA). It appears that during this period, the ISO sometimes neglected to assign new three letter codes when a country replaced its currency, and that this practice only tightened up once the 1990 edition was released, at which point the ISO retrospectively designated currency codes for the older currencies that had become ambiguous.
For example:
- The 1981 edition assigns Israel the currency code ILS under the name "Shekel". The latest edition assigns ILS to the Israeli new shekel, but this was only introduced in 1986. Between 1980 and 1986 Israel used the (old) shekel, which has been retrospectively given the code ILR in the historic list.
- The 1978 edition assigns Iceland the currency code ISK. The latest edition assigns ISK to the current króna, but this was only introduced in 1981 (making the 1981 edition ambiguous). The old króna has been retrospectively given the code ISJ in the historic list, however.
- The 1978 and 1981 editions assign Vietnam the currency code VND, the latter with the name "Dong". The latest edition assigns VND to the current đồng, but this was only introduced in 1985. The old đồng has been retrospectively given the code VNC in the historic list.
By analogy, it therefore follows that ARY was intended for the Argentine peso ley, which was the currency in use when the 1978 and 1981 editions were released.
Response:
Thank you very much for your feedback on the historic context of the Argentine peso ley.
We have been examining the historic code lists a.o., and ARY is indeed the foreseen code for the Argentine peso ley, and a change of our corresponding authority table to be done.
Translations in all EU languages are necessary for the concept in question, therefore we will plan to have this update of the ‘Currency’ authority table ready for our publication in December 2022 (Releases - EU Vocabularies - Publications Office of the EU (europa.eu)).
Please do not hesitate to contact us further for any questions or feedback regarding the currency codes.
Thank you.
Theknightwho ( talk) 15:40, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
I added an indirect reference to the start of these historical denominations. They didn't exist before december 1988, when they were formally approved at a general meeting. This document is the only source as the archives send by BSO to Switserland, when they changed the agency in charge, got completely lost! May be there is a local agency or a member who has still copies of the original request done in April/May through Gunnar Sundblad (not the one of the Foundation) or the letter of approval. Until then it is difficult to confirm that the request was made by Rinet sc, located in Brussels. 2A02:A03F:6AF4:4200:10B4:1D59:9D3D:66A7 ( talk) 16:03, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Template {{ ISO 4217/cite}} now has the source (definition) of the ISO 4217 codes & currencies. See its documentation for use options. This article may need a check. As a bulletlist, the sources are:
Website:
Definition files:
DePiep ( talk) 13:31, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
The ISO 4217 published Standard has Numeric Code
for the codes. However, its definition and its usage are unknown. Does someone have any decisive description of Numeric Code? So far, in {{
Infobox currency}} the Numeric is to be
removed.
DePiep (
talk)
13:16, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I'm seeing the links repeated four times. I'm supposing there's a problem with {\{ISO_4217/cite}} in which it no longer filters correctly. Can anyone fix it?
ADTC Talk Ctrb 06:39, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
In the long list of locations for the EUR, one is given as “ Kosovo (XK)”. The “XK” is not official ISO 3166-1 alpha-2, which reserves the X… for user-defined purposes. But lots of countries do use XK for Kosovo (partial list on one of my github pages). I propose to delete the “ (XK)”. Objections? JDAWiseman ( talk) 20:52, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
The long list of locations for the EUR seems to be in a jumbled order, neither alphabetically, nor by GDP. Would there be any objections to the list being ordered as: EU; then official members ordered by GDP = DE FR IT ES NL BE AT GR PT FI IE SK HR LT SI LV LU EE CY MT; then others alphabetically either by 3166 code or by GDP. JDAWiseman ( talk) 20:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)