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The 2741 originated at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center. A project led by Steven Firth created the 2741 (and drove it to market) to support the ATS/360 ("Administrative Terminal System") software product, a text editing and storage system which otherwise would have had no commercially practical user terminal. ATS/360 was implemented in IBM/360 assembler; it first ran under DOS and then was migrated to MFT. ATS/360 included its own proprietary time-sharing software as did other 360 time sharing applications of those days. I know because I extensively modified and extended ATS/360 in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
I know that APL\360 supported the 2741 because I wrote the code. There was a DOS system for text-editing which I believe supported the 2741. I cannot remember its name. It is also likely that IMS, GIS and CICS supported the 2741. I cannot verivy this. Rdmoore6 21:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
In the image of the 2741 APL keyboard layout used in this article, I think it's missing an Greek IOTA over the "I". Shift-"I" should give an IOTA for APL. --- Wikiklrsc ( talk) 02:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Google image search provides three hits for "IBM 2741". Two of these hits are now external references from the article. All three Google hits seem to have different scanned versions of the same photograph. I suspect the photo came from an IBM manual. I asked the person who maintains the acis/history/2741.html page at Columbia. is replay was: "It's not my photo. I have no idea whose it is." It would be nice to have the photo on wiki (columbia U has best scan) if permission could be obtained from IBM or whoever took the photo. Rdmoore6 21:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
There are more photos of what I believe are IBM 2741's built into BCL SUSIE machines at http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/9515/BCL-Susie/ P.r.newman ( talk) 10:59, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a question about IBM 2741's coming in non-desk versions. I do remember the portable versions, but don't remember looking at the sticker to see who made it. I only remember the white desk like the bottom picture, not the wood grain desk like the APL picture. I had thought that was a portable version sitting on a desk, but it is hard to tell from the picture. I used these a lot 40 years ago, and even was allowed to bring a portable one home one night. (There weren't many for that use.) I do remember the portable version had more electronics in the back, that the APL picture doesn't show. What were the clones called? Gah4 ( talk) 01:37, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Anyway, it was that desk that fooled me. But then, that one doesn't have the extension on the back that I, sort of, remember for the non-desk (clone) versions. Very interesting picture! Gah4 ( talk) 09:36, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
My guess is that the "foreign language" is Icelandic, since it contains "eth"s ( wikipedia:Icelandic orthography). The 2741 is pure IBM with an APL keyboard. Peter Flass ( talk) 23:20, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Does this really belong here? It's more about the Selectric and its interchangeable elements than about the 2741. Those Algol 68 documents might as well have been prepped on a Selectric with the "correspondence coded" APL element. There is no mention or evidence here that an actual 2741 terminal was used. I think this deserves to be a sentence or two in the IBM Selectric typewriter article (it already mentions the prevalence of the IBM Symbol element's output in various math and science papers). Jeh ( talk) 19:23, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Someone inserted, "Electrically, it is related to the Break key on ASCII terminals.". I don't know what that means, and there is no explanation, nor a citation. In fact, I do not believe it is even true. Unlike ASCII terminals, the 2741 keyboard is mechanically locked so that no keys can be depressed while the remote end is controlling. Pressing the ATTN key unlocks the keyboard. I used the 2741 for ATS and later, APL, for years, and that's not how any of the hundreds of ASCII terminals that I ever used worked. I have looked over the IBM schematics for the 2741 and I do not see how the circuits are the same as for an ASCII terminal, nor the line protocol; I just don't know why someone wrote that these are the same things. I suspect it is just made-up. Perhaps the editor meant to suggest that these two keys were sometimes used for similar purposes in some ways. I would like to see some evidence that these are "Electrically related". Or else the comment should be removed. Dicirnah ( talk) 00:50, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The operator presses the Attention key to cause an interrupt. This causes the 2741 to transmit a 200 to 360ms continuous space signal. This signal requests that the computer program end transmission by transmitting a ©. The program mayor may not honor this request. If transmitted by the CPU, the © places the 2741 in transmit mode. The terminal then transmits a (circle-D) and its keyboard unlocks.
I was going to disagree with the removal of the mention of control-C, but I suspect that the reference will be lost to enough readers, that it isn't so useful. Though Control-C#In_command-line_environments might not be so bad. Gah4 ( talk) 08:18, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
The 2741 originated at the Thomas J. Watson Research Center. A project led by Steven Firth created the 2741 (and drove it to market) to support the ATS/360 ("Administrative Terminal System") software product, a text editing and storage system which otherwise would have had no commercially practical user terminal. ATS/360 was implemented in IBM/360 assembler; it first ran under DOS and then was migrated to MFT. ATS/360 included its own proprietary time-sharing software as did other 360 time sharing applications of those days. I know because I extensively modified and extended ATS/360 in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
I know that APL\360 supported the 2741 because I wrote the code. There was a DOS system for text-editing which I believe supported the 2741. I cannot remember its name. It is also likely that IMS, GIS and CICS supported the 2741. I cannot verivy this. Rdmoore6 21:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
In the image of the 2741 APL keyboard layout used in this article, I think it's missing an Greek IOTA over the "I". Shift-"I" should give an IOTA for APL. --- Wikiklrsc ( talk) 02:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
Google image search provides three hits for "IBM 2741". Two of these hits are now external references from the article. All three Google hits seem to have different scanned versions of the same photograph. I suspect the photo came from an IBM manual. I asked the person who maintains the acis/history/2741.html page at Columbia. is replay was: "It's not my photo. I have no idea whose it is." It would be nice to have the photo on wiki (columbia U has best scan) if permission could be obtained from IBM or whoever took the photo. Rdmoore6 21:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
There are more photos of what I believe are IBM 2741's built into BCL SUSIE machines at http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/9515/BCL-Susie/ P.r.newman ( talk) 10:59, 10 September 2011 (UTC)
There is a question about IBM 2741's coming in non-desk versions. I do remember the portable versions, but don't remember looking at the sticker to see who made it. I only remember the white desk like the bottom picture, not the wood grain desk like the APL picture. I had thought that was a portable version sitting on a desk, but it is hard to tell from the picture. I used these a lot 40 years ago, and even was allowed to bring a portable one home one night. (There weren't many for that use.) I do remember the portable version had more electronics in the back, that the APL picture doesn't show. What were the clones called? Gah4 ( talk) 01:37, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Anyway, it was that desk that fooled me. But then, that one doesn't have the extension on the back that I, sort of, remember for the non-desk (clone) versions. Very interesting picture! Gah4 ( talk) 09:36, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
My guess is that the "foreign language" is Icelandic, since it contains "eth"s ( wikipedia:Icelandic orthography). The 2741 is pure IBM with an APL keyboard. Peter Flass ( talk) 23:20, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
Does this really belong here? It's more about the Selectric and its interchangeable elements than about the 2741. Those Algol 68 documents might as well have been prepped on a Selectric with the "correspondence coded" APL element. There is no mention or evidence here that an actual 2741 terminal was used. I think this deserves to be a sentence or two in the IBM Selectric typewriter article (it already mentions the prevalence of the IBM Symbol element's output in various math and science papers). Jeh ( talk) 19:23, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Someone inserted, "Electrically, it is related to the Break key on ASCII terminals.". I don't know what that means, and there is no explanation, nor a citation. In fact, I do not believe it is even true. Unlike ASCII terminals, the 2741 keyboard is mechanically locked so that no keys can be depressed while the remote end is controlling. Pressing the ATTN key unlocks the keyboard. I used the 2741 for ATS and later, APL, for years, and that's not how any of the hundreds of ASCII terminals that I ever used worked. I have looked over the IBM schematics for the 2741 and I do not see how the circuits are the same as for an ASCII terminal, nor the line protocol; I just don't know why someone wrote that these are the same things. I suspect it is just made-up. Perhaps the editor meant to suggest that these two keys were sometimes used for similar purposes in some ways. I would like to see some evidence that these are "Electrically related". Or else the comment should be removed. Dicirnah ( talk) 00:50, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
The operator presses the Attention key to cause an interrupt. This causes the 2741 to transmit a 200 to 360ms continuous space signal. This signal requests that the computer program end transmission by transmitting a ©. The program mayor may not honor this request. If transmitted by the CPU, the © places the 2741 in transmit mode. The terminal then transmits a (circle-D) and its keyboard unlocks.
I was going to disagree with the removal of the mention of control-C, but I suspect that the reference will be lost to enough readers, that it isn't so useful. Though Control-C#In_command-line_environments might not be so bad. Gah4 ( talk) 08:18, 26 April 2017 (UTC)