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@ Gentlecollapse6: I don't believe this was an improvement. The layout made sense; paragraphs were split up as
followed by
The split makes for awkward reading. Not only are we introduced to Keenan twice, but the "History" section is just more info about "Characteristics". Basically,
followed by
-- Ilovetopaint ( talk) 14:36, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
My issue is that there's would seem to be a distinction between the sections that are simply defining the basic characteristics of the style, and those that have more to do with the history/etymology and critical terms that were used around it over time. The first two paragraphs of the original section were essentially "these are the characteristics of the style" and then it awkwardly transitions to "by 2010, critics were talking about it xyz" which seemed weird. Plus, there's a load of extra sources you've added that you use to simultaneously further define the style AND connect it to other terms/scenes AND refer to particular albums, which seems like too much tied together at once. If you wanna change it back that's fine, but it seems like a clump of redundant information already. Gentlecollapse6 ( talk) 14:46, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Hey User:Ilovetopaint, not really sure what you're getting at with this edit. The second part seems more specific to Pink, and the first doesn't seem to be explicitly about h-pop. If anything it might belong in the critical response section. gentlecollapse6 ( talk) 18:14, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
In January 2011, Simon Reynolds wrote about the AZ Generation for Village Voice), asserting about them that “the godfather of all this, of course, is Ariel Pink” and referring to “the genre spawned off those three Pink albums”. For Reynolds, the entire, multicoloured AZ Generation (which he himself described as a “legion”) could be grouped together under one genre term, in this case “chillwave”, which apparently accommodated everyone (dubbed Pink’s “chill-dren”) from Emeralds to How To Dress Well to Oneohtrix Point Never to Sun Araw to James Ferraro to Toro Y Moi and even key witch house act Salem, and gave them one over-arching description relating to nostalgia and ‘pre-faded sounds’. The reductive tendency to pre-judge contemporary underground pop as ‘nostalgic’ (again with the Pink-tinted-spectacles), while not entirely or always unsubstantiated, has been all too prevalent in recent years, and it’s undermining the unique contributions made by its artists.
Now of course, it’s too easy for me to claim that the scene was and is a lot more diverse two years later. But Reynolds certainly wasn’t the only one to lump anyone and everyone that felt a bit lo-fi and a bit nostalgic into the same box with Pink, and Bevan’s recent reproduction and re-enforcement of the Pink-as-godfather theory shows that such a reductive perception of the scene is hardening into a consensus historical and aesthetic fact, one that will affect how we listen. Without retreating into obvious absurdity – such as the notion that Pink’s role in today’s underground pop is chiefly negligible – it’s time to consider the counter-arguments.
It hopefully doesn’t need emphasising that Ariel Pink didn’t invent home-recording, or lo-fi, or even retro-lo-fi. In fact, if we look at the history of home-recording and lo-fi, Pink can begin to look like the end of an era rather than the beginning of one. Since the early 1980s, the very same language applied to Pink was being applied to one of his avowed greatest influences and sometime collaborator, R Stevie Moore. ...
... Rather than being the progenitor or the AZ Generation, Pink can easily be understood as the youngest member of this mid-80s Cassette Culture Generation. His recordings, especially his most recent album ‘Mature Themes’, are much more similar to those of the CC Generation than they are to the core artists of chillwave like Washed Out or of hypnagogic pop like early Ferraro and Matrix Metals. Pink’s albums are zany, personal, largely rock-based and dressed in awkward glam, they don’t have the mirror-shades-cool synth groove of chillwave or the pop-art pastiche of hypnagogic pop, and they have very little indeed to do with Grimes. ...
Just found this, haven't read it yet but it surely has some things worth putting in this article and others.-- Ilovetopaint ( talk) 16:14, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
It won't work if you left-click, which I why I recommended to "save as" the link. If it still doesn't work then I uploaded it here too. -- Ilovetopaint ( talk) 17:09, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Haxwell ( talk · contribs) 20:43, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I determine that this article is
well written,
verifiable, with no original research,
addresses the main topics, yet stays focused without unnecessary detail,
neutral,
stable,
and illustrated.
It is a Good Article.
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![]() | Hypnagogic pop has been listed as one of the
Music good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: August 2, 2017. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
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|
@ Gentlecollapse6: I don't believe this was an improvement. The layout made sense; paragraphs were split up as
followed by
The split makes for awkward reading. Not only are we introduced to Keenan twice, but the "History" section is just more info about "Characteristics". Basically,
followed by
-- Ilovetopaint ( talk) 14:36, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
My issue is that there's would seem to be a distinction between the sections that are simply defining the basic characteristics of the style, and those that have more to do with the history/etymology and critical terms that were used around it over time. The first two paragraphs of the original section were essentially "these are the characteristics of the style" and then it awkwardly transitions to "by 2010, critics were talking about it xyz" which seemed weird. Plus, there's a load of extra sources you've added that you use to simultaneously further define the style AND connect it to other terms/scenes AND refer to particular albums, which seems like too much tied together at once. If you wanna change it back that's fine, but it seems like a clump of redundant information already. Gentlecollapse6 ( talk) 14:46, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Hey User:Ilovetopaint, not really sure what you're getting at with this edit. The second part seems more specific to Pink, and the first doesn't seem to be explicitly about h-pop. If anything it might belong in the critical response section. gentlecollapse6 ( talk) 18:14, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
In January 2011, Simon Reynolds wrote about the AZ Generation for Village Voice), asserting about them that “the godfather of all this, of course, is Ariel Pink” and referring to “the genre spawned off those three Pink albums”. For Reynolds, the entire, multicoloured AZ Generation (which he himself described as a “legion”) could be grouped together under one genre term, in this case “chillwave”, which apparently accommodated everyone (dubbed Pink’s “chill-dren”) from Emeralds to How To Dress Well to Oneohtrix Point Never to Sun Araw to James Ferraro to Toro Y Moi and even key witch house act Salem, and gave them one over-arching description relating to nostalgia and ‘pre-faded sounds’. The reductive tendency to pre-judge contemporary underground pop as ‘nostalgic’ (again with the Pink-tinted-spectacles), while not entirely or always unsubstantiated, has been all too prevalent in recent years, and it’s undermining the unique contributions made by its artists.
Now of course, it’s too easy for me to claim that the scene was and is a lot more diverse two years later. But Reynolds certainly wasn’t the only one to lump anyone and everyone that felt a bit lo-fi and a bit nostalgic into the same box with Pink, and Bevan’s recent reproduction and re-enforcement of the Pink-as-godfather theory shows that such a reductive perception of the scene is hardening into a consensus historical and aesthetic fact, one that will affect how we listen. Without retreating into obvious absurdity – such as the notion that Pink’s role in today’s underground pop is chiefly negligible – it’s time to consider the counter-arguments.
It hopefully doesn’t need emphasising that Ariel Pink didn’t invent home-recording, or lo-fi, or even retro-lo-fi. In fact, if we look at the history of home-recording and lo-fi, Pink can begin to look like the end of an era rather than the beginning of one. Since the early 1980s, the very same language applied to Pink was being applied to one of his avowed greatest influences and sometime collaborator, R Stevie Moore. ...
... Rather than being the progenitor or the AZ Generation, Pink can easily be understood as the youngest member of this mid-80s Cassette Culture Generation. His recordings, especially his most recent album ‘Mature Themes’, are much more similar to those of the CC Generation than they are to the core artists of chillwave like Washed Out or of hypnagogic pop like early Ferraro and Matrix Metals. Pink’s albums are zany, personal, largely rock-based and dressed in awkward glam, they don’t have the mirror-shades-cool synth groove of chillwave or the pop-art pastiche of hypnagogic pop, and they have very little indeed to do with Grimes. ...
Just found this, haven't read it yet but it surely has some things worth putting in this article and others.-- Ilovetopaint ( talk) 16:14, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
It won't work if you left-click, which I why I recommended to "save as" the link. If it still doesn't work then I uploaded it here too. -- Ilovetopaint ( talk) 17:09, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Haxwell ( talk · contribs) 20:43, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
I determine that this article is
well written,
verifiable, with no original research,
addresses the main topics, yet stays focused without unnecessary detail,
neutral,
stable,
and illustrated.
It is a Good Article.
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 15:09, 9 November 2017 (UTC)