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No reference to Hurricane Emily (1987), previous holder of the title Bermuda's Worst Storm (hit during morning rush hour after the population was assured that it was going to miss).
Aftermath, particularly the future of the Causeway, is in desperate need of expansion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 155.68.108.171 ( talk) 08:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC).
This article is about Fabian, not Emily or all other Bermuda hurricanes. From what I've read, Fabian was the worst storm since 1926, even worst than Emily. Also, I removed your addition of the following as it was unsourced. Officials would afterwards look into the possibility of replacing for the Causeway, a process that is still ongoing. This is a featured article, meaning it should be of the highest standards. Unsourced additions shouldn't be in the article. If you believe it is desperately needed, you should add it yourself with an appropriate source. Hurricanehink ( talk) 12:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
More impact. Jdorje 21:14, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't the deaths from the drowning boat be considered direct? NHC always has them be direct, unless some other circumstance caused the crash (for example, in the 2002 Henri report, one person drowned when his boat crashed, but intoxication was evident and the death was considered indirect). Hurricanehink 12:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Good job at revising the article. I think this has excellent potential for a GA (even A or featured) article, but to achieve that better, some things may need to be resolved. For example, some portions may require cleanup, and the article may need to be shortened and cleaned a bit more (though not much). Otherwise, the whole article is perfect as it is, devotes plenty of well-stated detail to all aspects (introduction, storm history, preparations, impact, and trivia), and is well-written. It is also very accurate in most areas. If both of that is accomplished, we may well have a GA, A, or featured article. CapeVerdeWave 22:40, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Alright, FAC time. :) Hurricanehink ( talk) 17:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
•Please compare in the Impact section the length on Bermuda, compared to those on the Caribbean and the United States. Furthermore, here is the articles description of what the storm was: "Hurricane Fabian was a powerful Cape Verde-type hurricane that hit Bermuda...".
•"a someone" is not a correct grammatical construction. Your claim to the contrary is false.
•There are no boy scout troops in Bermuda. This is a simple fact. Your claim to the contrary is a lie.23:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC) (P.S.: done for the day)
There is no consensus for this change; further reversions will be seen as going against consensus and could get you blocked. Wait for discussion. – Chacor 08:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
User:Hurricanehink and User:Chacor have both refused to enter into the discussion in the past week, and both have been active in that time. Furthermore, you are now in the process of threatening me; I can only assume that it is with the intent of forcing through your personal POV. 00:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Sigh this is silly guys. Firstly, we have never agreed upon using en-us across hurricane articles, we've just defaulted to it for most storms as other English speaking nations are minor relative to US impact (and our editors are mostly en-us). We likewise haven't really discussed the units. It is sensible to use Imperial (SI) for US-affecting storms and we gain a measure of consistency by applying that to all hurricane articles. However, there is no REAL benefit to consistency in which variant of English to use in different articles; for the same reasons as across wiki as a whole. As US impact was minimal from Fabian and most of the damage was done in other English-speaking countries; WP:ENGVAR would suggest using Commonwealth English for Fabian, Juan and other storms who had primary impact in English speaking countries other than the US.
The grammatical "errors" that the anon is referring to are also real: "...within minutes a someone would call..." is not grammatically correct (in en-gb). On the other hand, "...within minutes someone would call..." is grammatically correct in both variants, why revert it - its a strict improvement. There are two further problem sentences in the first para of Aftermath. When Hurricanehink did the last revert, they stick out. "and left islanders without knowledge" is a sentence fragment (maybe left from an earlier vandal), there is nothing wrong with the anon's removal of it. The final sentence seems awkward. From a en-gb perspective "the road was closed at night" is valid whereas "the road was closed at nighttime" seems wrong, and in my understanding of en-us the first is valid: so why revert? To the anon: the Boy Scout Troop was in Carolina and helped pack the supplies. That said the "local" is superfluous and confusing (local to where?). As an aside the whole thing about radio DJs should be removed - its not got a reliable source; a webforum/maillist/whatever it is isn't one of those.
There is no WPTC policy to use en-us in ALL hurricane articles and nor should there be. Articles like 2003AHS should be en-us, but if I chose to write TS Chris (2000) in en-gb there would be nothing wrong with that - the fact the NHC uses US English is irrelevant, I can "translate" its stuff if I want. Personally, I cannot find fault with the anon's edits (and that is not because I am en-gb). And Hink, what the at the Google grammar? You would have made that point a lot better pointing at a specific website showing that it is used in US english...-- Nilf anion ( talk) 01:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore, per WP:ENGVAR:
ENGVAR also says "Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country." However, this article is not on a topic "specific" to Bermuda. Stay with established spelling, follow the status quo. – Chacor 09:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"I didn't refuse to argue a counter-point..." Hurricanehink (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"...and furthermore this isn't an argument. This is a discussion. " Hurricanehink (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"...it passed its featured article candidacy without anyone objecting or mentioning this, the way it was should be kept." Hurricanehink (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"The WPTC has agreed to keep Atlantic articles in imperial units and, for the most part, American spelling" Hurricanehink (talk) 00:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"However, this article is not on a topic "specific" to Bermuda." Chacor 09:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"You totally ignore what I presented above regarding keeping established spelling." Chacor 02:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
"This discussion is over." Chacor 02:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I couldn't care less if this article was written in American or Commonwealth English, so why has there been an edit war at all? If there had been another rv cycle I'd have protected the page to stop it getting any worse. I'd just like to comment: The anon is trying to do the right thing by trying to get a consensus here, remember everyone should agree for a true consensus - so one side would have to concede the point for it to exist ;) As this is a simple one-way-or-the-other decision a straw poll makes more sense than an RFC anyway. I've attempted to summarize the positions here:
Is this an accurate summary of the dispute? If so, it gives a good framework for bringing in outside comment if it cannot be resolved here alone. Please comment beneath this if you feel I am misrepresenting it.-- Nilf anion ( talk) 16:11, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd also like to highlight a compromise solution exists. The contentious words are favo(u)rable, organi(s/z)e (and its derivatives) and neighbo(u)rs; there are also a couple minor grammatical issues. A rephrasing of the sentences in question to use words and grammar common to both dialects should be practical here. If that is done, the article is effectively written in BOTH dialects, so both sides get their preferred option.-- Nilf anion ( talk) 16:11, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
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@ Hurricanehink: there is no reason for these italics ( WP:ITALICS, MOS:BADITALICS): might you fix that in the infobox template? I can't figure out how ...
SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:23, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
![]() | Hurricane Fabian is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on January 30, 2010. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||
|
No reference to Hurricane Emily (1987), previous holder of the title Bermuda's Worst Storm (hit during morning rush hour after the population was assured that it was going to miss).
Aftermath, particularly the future of the Causeway, is in desperate need of expansion. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 155.68.108.171 ( talk) 08:46, 29 January 2007 (UTC).
This article is about Fabian, not Emily or all other Bermuda hurricanes. From what I've read, Fabian was the worst storm since 1926, even worst than Emily. Also, I removed your addition of the following as it was unsourced. Officials would afterwards look into the possibility of replacing for the Causeway, a process that is still ongoing. This is a featured article, meaning it should be of the highest standards. Unsourced additions shouldn't be in the article. If you believe it is desperately needed, you should add it yourself with an appropriate source. Hurricanehink ( talk) 12:56, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
More impact. Jdorje 21:14, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
Wouldn't the deaths from the drowning boat be considered direct? NHC always has them be direct, unless some other circumstance caused the crash (for example, in the 2002 Henri report, one person drowned when his boat crashed, but intoxication was evident and the death was considered indirect). Hurricanehink 12:42, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Good job at revising the article. I think this has excellent potential for a GA (even A or featured) article, but to achieve that better, some things may need to be resolved. For example, some portions may require cleanup, and the article may need to be shortened and cleaned a bit more (though not much). Otherwise, the whole article is perfect as it is, devotes plenty of well-stated detail to all aspects (introduction, storm history, preparations, impact, and trivia), and is well-written. It is also very accurate in most areas. If both of that is accomplished, we may well have a GA, A, or featured article. CapeVerdeWave 22:40, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Alright, FAC time. :) Hurricanehink ( talk) 17:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
•Please compare in the Impact section the length on Bermuda, compared to those on the Caribbean and the United States. Furthermore, here is the articles description of what the storm was: "Hurricane Fabian was a powerful Cape Verde-type hurricane that hit Bermuda...".
•"a someone" is not a correct grammatical construction. Your claim to the contrary is false.
•There are no boy scout troops in Bermuda. This is a simple fact. Your claim to the contrary is a lie.23:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC) (P.S.: done for the day)
There is no consensus for this change; further reversions will be seen as going against consensus and could get you blocked. Wait for discussion. – Chacor 08:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
User:Hurricanehink and User:Chacor have both refused to enter into the discussion in the past week, and both have been active in that time. Furthermore, you are now in the process of threatening me; I can only assume that it is with the intent of forcing through your personal POV. 00:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Sigh this is silly guys. Firstly, we have never agreed upon using en-us across hurricane articles, we've just defaulted to it for most storms as other English speaking nations are minor relative to US impact (and our editors are mostly en-us). We likewise haven't really discussed the units. It is sensible to use Imperial (SI) for US-affecting storms and we gain a measure of consistency by applying that to all hurricane articles. However, there is no REAL benefit to consistency in which variant of English to use in different articles; for the same reasons as across wiki as a whole. As US impact was minimal from Fabian and most of the damage was done in other English-speaking countries; WP:ENGVAR would suggest using Commonwealth English for Fabian, Juan and other storms who had primary impact in English speaking countries other than the US.
The grammatical "errors" that the anon is referring to are also real: "...within minutes a someone would call..." is not grammatically correct (in en-gb). On the other hand, "...within minutes someone would call..." is grammatically correct in both variants, why revert it - its a strict improvement. There are two further problem sentences in the first para of Aftermath. When Hurricanehink did the last revert, they stick out. "and left islanders without knowledge" is a sentence fragment (maybe left from an earlier vandal), there is nothing wrong with the anon's removal of it. The final sentence seems awkward. From a en-gb perspective "the road was closed at night" is valid whereas "the road was closed at nighttime" seems wrong, and in my understanding of en-us the first is valid: so why revert? To the anon: the Boy Scout Troop was in Carolina and helped pack the supplies. That said the "local" is superfluous and confusing (local to where?). As an aside the whole thing about radio DJs should be removed - its not got a reliable source; a webforum/maillist/whatever it is isn't one of those.
There is no WPTC policy to use en-us in ALL hurricane articles and nor should there be. Articles like 2003AHS should be en-us, but if I chose to write TS Chris (2000) in en-gb there would be nothing wrong with that - the fact the NHC uses US English is irrelevant, I can "translate" its stuff if I want. Personally, I cannot find fault with the anon's edits (and that is not because I am en-gb). And Hink, what the at the Google grammar? You would have made that point a lot better pointing at a specific website showing that it is used in US english...-- Nilf anion ( talk) 01:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Furthermore, per WP:ENGVAR:
ENGVAR also says "Articles that focus on a topic specific to a particular English-speaking country should generally conform to the usage and spelling of that country." However, this article is not on a topic "specific" to Bermuda. Stay with established spelling, follow the status quo. – Chacor 09:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"I didn't refuse to argue a counter-point..." Hurricanehink (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"...and furthermore this isn't an argument. This is a discussion. " Hurricanehink (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"...it passed its featured article candidacy without anyone objecting or mentioning this, the way it was should be kept." Hurricanehink (talk) 00:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"The WPTC has agreed to keep Atlantic articles in imperial units and, for the most part, American spelling" Hurricanehink (talk) 00:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"However, this article is not on a topic "specific" to Bermuda." Chacor 09:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"You totally ignore what I presented above regarding keeping established spelling." Chacor 02:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
"This discussion is over." Chacor 02:45, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Personally, I couldn't care less if this article was written in American or Commonwealth English, so why has there been an edit war at all? If there had been another rv cycle I'd have protected the page to stop it getting any worse. I'd just like to comment: The anon is trying to do the right thing by trying to get a consensus here, remember everyone should agree for a true consensus - so one side would have to concede the point for it to exist ;) As this is a simple one-way-or-the-other decision a straw poll makes more sense than an RFC anyway. I've attempted to summarize the positions here:
Is this an accurate summary of the dispute? If so, it gives a good framework for bringing in outside comment if it cannot be resolved here alone. Please comment beneath this if you feel I am misrepresenting it.-- Nilf anion ( talk) 16:11, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd also like to highlight a compromise solution exists. The contentious words are favo(u)rable, organi(s/z)e (and its derivatives) and neighbo(u)rs; there are also a couple minor grammatical issues. A rephrasing of the sentences in question to use words and grammar common to both dialects should be practical here. If that is done, the article is effectively written in BOTH dialects, so both sides get their preferred option.-- Nilf anion ( talk) 16:11, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
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@ Hurricanehink: there is no reason for these italics ( WP:ITALICS, MOS:BADITALICS): might you fix that in the infobox template? I can't figure out how ...
SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:23, 4 December 2020 (UTC)